Macross Frontier - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Tak]

Originally Posted by cerrian

It's weird how NUNS has reservations about using reactionary weapons when there was no hesitation in using them in ep 7 with the Koeing Monster. Speaking of which, we got cheated out of some Koeing action . Although it was somewhat made up for by some decent VF-171 action.

Personally I think it's a huge black mark against the entire Frontier series that it took 14 episodes to show that NUNS has a competent military force and is not just cannon fodder for the baddies.

On the Alto front, I'm increasingly disappointed at how poorly his character has been developed....which is to say there was ZERO development this episode aside from the fact that he's become a bit more emo. Even Bobby and Luca had more development than Alto (which is about damn time too). It absolutely sucks that Alto shows no decent piloting skills except for his screaming and missile spamming. Hell, the VF-171s showed better piloting than Alto....and Alto is suppose to be our main character?

Although its quite possible the Monster did utilize reaction weapons in Episode 7, they just never specifically stated to be so. Regardless, the difference between 7 was that the SMS went on an expedition to 'attack', but 14 is a case of 'defense', where colonies were around while reactionary weapons exploded above their heads.

As for the NUNS fighter pilots? I'd say they suffered an element of surprise in the early episodes, call that a "Pearl Harbor" syndrome if you will. We've not really seen them in action after episode 1, and I'd assume they finally got up gears and studied anti-Vajra tactics for 14 episodes. I'd say about damn time, though

Unfortunately for Alto, he is a bit emo. Does not care about a damn thing in the world right now but Ranka (note the keyword being 'now'). This gives me Minmei vibes, big time. I still recall an episode where Misa questioned Hikaru if he would have done the same thing had she been in the same compromising situation. A question Hikaru had no answer to and brushed aside.

But we can't really question his piloting skills. I don't see anything particularly wrong with missile spamming, because that is the key weapon of every fighter in Macross. Having no missiles could place you in a very terrible circumstance. I will also have to disagree that he does not have decent piloting skills. Aside from saving Luca, Mikhail and of course, Sheryl, his actually managed to keep his fighter in 1 piece this time around. You have to give him credit for that.

- Tak

[Deathkillz]

Now this is getting confusing...the mother ship thing that Alto killed could have been Ranka's mother?
Ranka sure knows something that is why she yelled for Alto to stop with his missiles.
But I'm not sure...though this has got to be a "only time will tell" thing

Great ep btw...the action scenes are just jaw dropping.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Now this is getting confusing...the mother ship thing that Alto killed could have been Ranka's mother?
Ranka sure knows something that is why she yelled for Alto to stop with his missiles.
But I'm not sure...though this has got to be a "only time will tell" thing

Ranka doesn't know why she is crying. But she is being referred to as 'Queen' for a good reason, since there is a great, and I mean great possibility that the Vajra are her children (don't take that literally, please). Why do I say this? Because I have a feeling that she had been experimented upon with a Vajra head honcho and now effectively merged as one in an effort for humanity to gain control over some of Protoculture's more frightening creations. That failed, of course.

Ranka reminded me of Sara, big time. She was after all, infected with similar influence.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

So Ranka would be part Zentrady, part giant bug, part big space ship? Is there even any human in her?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So Ranka would be part Zentrady, part giant bug, part big space ship? Is there even any human in her?

25% Zentradi, 25% giant bug, and 25% space ship.

Certainly she is still part human, the 25% that is left of her

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

That leaves two questions:
- who coupled with whom?
- are you sure the remaining 25% are human? Maybe she's part hydra, and that beast wanted to court her, rather than eat her.

[Swampstorm]

I vaguely remember hearing that she was part fast pack, as well.

[SuperKnuckles]

I have to agree with the folks who actually are rooting for the Vajra now. I mean, I think the show actually has a lot in common with Starship Troopers. The alien come and destroy and kill EVERYONE, but they are only following orders after all. Just like with any real life wars where millions of enemies are involved and personal grudges are almost meaningless in the whole scope of things.

[Anh_Minh]

I think "when they're trying to destroy your habitats with giant death rays" is a very bad time to have an outbreak of pacifism.

[Westlo]

Yeah let's not forget they attacked Frontier and even had some ships fold out behind Frontier... lol.. but it's becoming clear that the Varja won't be the final threat of the series and it will more than likely come from Grace's faction which could possibly include Macross Galaxy.

Though it's kinda sad to see the Varja's fall from grace... from being some pretty intimidating mofos in the first ep to what they are now... will they be forming a Greenpeace faction in episode 25? Oh shit this is Kawamori weren't talking about.. after Arjuna who knows..

[Traece]

I actually like the Vajra to be honest. They have an interesting way of doing things, and they're quite underhanded tactics-wise when they need to be. I question if they really are as primitive as they've been called. How primitive could a species of space-monsters be after all? Primitives don't use V-Forma... Ok well... Birds do... So I guess that's not true... But all in all I think they're going to end up being good in their own way. They obviously have some taste for culture. But no taste in women! :P

The problem that springs up a Ranka and Alto pairing again is that Sheryl was being tossed aside in comparison to Ranka in a rude fashion, and the look he gave Sheryl when he said he was going to go save Ranka, and then left newly equipped with his Reaction missiles. (Also... Anybody notice the tags here? Grace in the Shell. Genocidal Love. Lol...)

[magnuskn]

I think it is a bit strange to be steamed about Altos lack of character development. This episode was all about the fighting, and Altos role was be the host of Radio KATN ( Kick Ass and Take Names ) for now.

Next episode should be more about the character and plot development. I dearly hope that people didn´t magically forget that Alto paved all the way for Brera to save Ranka, and not be all "Alto, you failed". I mean, what are flight recorders for?

[Wesley84]

"Hatred" as a theme is a little late in the game to be introduced don't you think? Especially how simply it was done so. Being angry at the Vajra is understandable, but they've done a really crappy job portraying where exactly that anger is coming from. They could learn a thing or two from Gundam Seed in that regard, but obviously there's no point in wasting time on portraying the Vajra as an actual race rather than space monsters that have a thing for Ranka and get beaten down by the SMS and now the UN Spacy as well. They'd much rather waste time on a highschool-level love affair.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

"Hatred" as a theme is a little late in the game to be introduced don't you think? Especially how simply it was done so. Being angry at the Vajra is understandable, but they've done a really crappy job portraying where exactly that anger is coming from. They could learn a thing or two from Gundam Seed in that regard, but obviously there's no point in wasting time on portraying the Vajra as an actual race rather than space monsters that have a thing for Ranka and get beaten down by the SMS and now the UN Spacy as well. They'd much rather waste time on a highschool-level love affair.

It's called escalation of conflict.

Something Grace is very good at.

As I said Grace O'Connor is the Anti-Basara singing the song of destruction.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

"Hatred" as a theme is a little late in the game to be introduced don't you think? Especially how simply it was done so. Being angry at the Vajra is understandable, but they've done a really crappy job portraying where exactly that anger is coming from. They could learn a thing or two from Gundam Seed in that regard, but obviously there's no point in wasting time on portraying the Vajra as an actual race rather than space monsters that have a thing for Ranka and get beaten down by the SMS and now the UN Spacy as well. They'd much rather waste time on a highschool-level love affair.

When have the Vajra ever been portrayed as anything but a sentient race attempting the desctruction of Macross Frontier (and I guess Macross Galaxy)? They have no story or any such thing, thus they have never been portrayed as, "angry." In time, the Vajra will be shone to have their reason.

The only reason they need is that Ranka is part of the Vajra and they want her back. Either that or she's the carrier of some immense Vajra something-or-other that will further their race immensely or something. (Like a Queen perhaps? Who knows right?)

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Traece

When have the Vajra ever been portrayed as anything but a sentient race attempting the desctruction of Macross Frontier (and I guess Macross Galaxy)? They have no story or any such thing, thus they have never been portrayed as, "angry." In time, the Vajra will be shone to have their reason.

The only reason they need is that Ranka is part of the Vajra and they want her back. Either that or she's the carrier of some immense Vajra something-or-other that will further their race immensely or something. (Like a Queen perhaps? Who knows right?)

I said anger towards the Vajra. I know it makes sense for Frontier's people to be angry towards them, but the show hasn't delievered in making it a real theme. Sure, Alto seemed to take it personally for what happened to Ranka as a kid and the attack from the start of the series, but the Vajra's presense/threat hasn't been a constant one, especially combined with how easily they're beaten time and time again.

Here's a clip to show what I mean. Frontier by comparison seems to have only introduced it on a whim.

[Westlo]

Well that was really deep into the timeline of their battle when you take into account the tv series skirmishes and the Borg aren't some go between like the Varja will likely end up being since Grace's faction (possibly Glaaxy itself) will end up as the opponents at the end.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Well that was really deep into the timeline of their battle when you take into account the tv series skirmishes and the Borg aren't some go between like the Varja will end up being.

Exactly. The Vajra seem tossed in only for action and to give Ranka's character some mysterious origin or special influence over certain events in the series. They aren't being portrayed as a race, and are a barely credible threat, let alone one the UN Spacy would run hog wild to destroy as thoroughly as possible. The empathy just isn't there, even if it makes sense for them to be angry.

[ipernorris]

In episode 14 the Vajra got devastated: sure they did some major damage to Frontier, but nothing unreparable. But they were exterminated in exchange: I don't think they have something even bigger than their mothership so they won't grow in power anymore. Of course their main strength will be in numbers: the main aspect of insects is that they reproduce at absurd high rates after all. Even so I don't see the Vajra winning a whole scale war with the humantradis: unless they have some kind of "Death Star" then the humantradis are military stronger. Sure if ten motherships fight against Frontier alone then Frontier is probably done for, but not against the whole humantradi race.
In this episode another thing happened and nobody seems to take into proper account: Alto, for the first time, agreed on the concept that "the galaxy isn't big enough for two species to live in it. This means Alto now agrees on the total extermination of Vajra.

[Traece]

Wasn't Galaxy supposed to have been wiped out by the Vajra or some such thing?

So it could be possible that the Vajra have an immense fleet and some kind of battleship. All that they've really show us from the Vajra is a Mothership and several Destroyer-like vessels. It feels like there should be a larger more combat-capable vessel in their fleet.