Toradora! - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

I would just like to point out something, and that is, "Toradora" started not to feel like "Toradora" from EP13 onwards,

Or since the whole arc about Kitamura breakingdown OOC "goodness" started. I wonder if anyone thinks that this series is trying too hard to be something it isn't (that being a melodrama fest).

Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou

It might be a cultural thing. My Polish flatmate's parents appreciate when he takes on jobs to ease the burden on them. However, my (Chinese) parents would be really angry if I started working in McDonald's, for instance. I do have "part-time jobs" but they all have to be of the type that my parents understand as contributing to my CV (e.g. research assistant, healthcare assistant) instead of jobs purely for the sake of money, if you get what I mean...

It's true that most middle-class parents in Hong Kong would prefer that their children spend 3 extra hours a day studying instead of doing part-time jobs. "98% (as opposed to 93%) on next exam, or HK$500? Of course 98% lah!"

... And I'm sure you've heard about the juku in Japan, hagwon in Korea and buxishe in China (botsapse in HK): those are evening schools that Asian parents send their children to, as if there's not enough homework to do from regular school. You can never study enough

Wow, someone who used "lah (or la)" as an ending
Fundamentally I think Yasuko just wants Ryuuji to study hard while she supports the family herself (like all good mothers who are willing to sacrifice herself for their kids). The thing here is that the family lacks a male figurehead and since Yasuko has taken on both roles, she feels that it is her full responsibility to "bring food on the table" even if it meant overworking herself to the point of getting ill. Since Ryuuji doesn't have a father, she takes upon herself all the pressures of parenting so that Ryuuji can grow up like a normal child. Knowing this you would know that it is much less about her caring about the amount of pay he gets but more about her failing her responsibilities as a parent if her son needed to neglect his own studies to support the family.

[Sephiroth_760]

Originally Posted by Ryuou

Woah, I think you misread or heard something here. Don't worry, there were no pregnancies this episode. There is an elopement underway though.

but there was the scene in the train
taiga said something bout "I'm happy there we are a three-member-family now"?
I don't really get it xD

[Anh_Minh]

Yasuko + Ryuji + Taiga = 3.

[Raiga]

Yah it was something Yasuko said in episode 14 at the end. "We're a three-person family!" or something like that.

[milkmandan]

Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou

It's true that most middle-class parents in Hong Kong would prefer that their children spend 3 extra hours a day studying instead of doing part-time jobs. "98% (as opposed to 93%) on next exam, or HK$500? Of course 98% lah!"

Asian culture is filled with unrealistic expectations and retarded ways of thinking. (i come from a chinese family)
If my family is not well off to do, and REALLY could use the $500, id be working to give my parents an easier time. While grades are extremely important, going from a 99% to maybe even a 89% is NOT the end of the world. Life is not about grades and when you really get a job, its not how good your grades were that determine pay, its how good are you at doing your job.

[Anh_Minh]

Depends how the scholarship system is in Japan, and how good Ryuji's grade really are. There's a big difference between someone with just a high school diploma and a Toudai graduate, or why would people want to go there?

[Yukinokesshou]

Originally Posted by milkmandan

Asian culture is filled with unrealistic expectations and retarded ways of thinking. (i come from a chinese family)
If my family is not well off to do, and REALLY could use the $500, id be working to give my parents an easier time. While grades are extremely important, going from a 99% to maybe even a 89% is NOT the end of the world. Life is not about grades and when you really get a job, its not how good your grades were that determine pay, its how good are you at doing your job.

To an extent, I agree with you.

However, in Asia more than the west, your grades do determine what sort of job you get in the future, and what sort of job you have obviously determines your pay. 89% vs. 99% may not be the end of the world in the UK or US, but to a boy from a provincial Chinese town, it might be the difference between ending up as a factory worker or going to university and becoming a professional. Even in Hong Kong, it might determine whether you study arts at university (future starting salary: HK$8000/US$1000 a month) or medicine (future starting salary HK$60000/US$7500 a month).

Hence, time spent studying is seen as something of an investment: with the (possibly significantly) higher salaries you'd be earning in the future, you'd be able to support your parents throughout their retirement. On the other hand, HK$500 (US$65) from a part time job is a stop-gap measure at best.

If you'd like to continue this conversation further, please PM me so that we won't be taking this thread on a tangent

[Jethro]

Spoiler for Question about Minori:

Can someone please explain to me what Minori meant when she said to Ryuuji "If someone sees me go through hardship pain and cry, I guess it's a reward"?

I was crying at the part when Minori was cheering for Ryuuji when he left T_T.

[Yukinokesshou]

Originally Posted by Jethro

Spoiler for Question about Ami:

Can someone please explain to me what Ami meant when she said to Ryuuji "If someone sees me go through hardship pain and cry, I guess it's a reward"?

\

I was crying at the part when Ami was cheering for Ryuuji when he left T_T.

That would be Minori you're referring to, not Ami. I suppose she meant that her efforts would not be in vain if other people saw and understood what she went through? Let's wait for one of the pros like relentlessflame to give us a more profound answer, though

[typhonsentra]

Don't you mean Minori? As for that line, she probably means just what she says: she wants to express her feelings to someone instead of just holding it all in, which is what she did with Ami at her house.

[Deathscyther]

Originally Posted by Jethro

Spoiler for Question about Ami:

Can someone please explain to me what Ami meant when she said to Ryuuji "If someone sees me go through hardship pain and cry, I guess it's a reward"?

\

I was crying at the part when Ami was cheering for Ryuuji when he left T_T.

I think you mean Minorin.

[Jethro]

Sorry
I meant to say Minori

My clumsiness is expressed through the looks of Ryuuji, my avatar.

[Anh_Minh]

I don't think it's quite as straightforward. She doesn't want to express herself, but she still wants to be seen through. Because it's her dream, she'll go through hardships without complaining. But it'd still be nice if someone could acknowledge her effort.

[Karlson]

Originally Posted by Deathscyther

I think people should stop the discussion until the final episode has aired. They didn't put in the 'to be continued' message in the end for nothing. I think this episode will make more sense if you have seen the last episode as well.

I myself still don't see the problems most of you seem have with this episode, rushing aside:

1. The marriage thing indeed came out of nowhere, but this was supposed to feel like this. The purpose of this episode was to show that people can make stupid mistakes when they're desperate.
Ryuuji and Taiga are finally clear about their feelings and don't want to lose each other. That's why Ryuuji came up with some last resort plan.
The author/anime wants to show that making rash decisions and running away aren't the right options. One should always face his/her problems. And the teens decided to do the right thing in the end -> face their problems;

2. Minorin, Ami and Kitamura didn't agree with the 'eloping plan'....they were even against it, but helped them anyways because that's what friends do;

3. The Yasuko/Ryuuji fight has been built up slowly in the last few episodes. The hints haven't been extremely clear, but they were given nonetheless. If you think this moment came out of nowhere, I'd recommend watching the last few episodes one more time (especially the scenes involving the part-time job and Ryuuji's future).

Again, this is just my opinion and everyone has the right to have a different one. I just wanted to try to clear up some misunderstanding that some people seem to have.

Well with regards to what Minorin, Ami and Kitamura did, I think everyone has a different outlook on what they believe is morally the right thing to do as a friend in that situation. Some believe the right choice is to do whatever it takes to stop them and slap some common sense into them and the reality of the situation. Others believe it is not their place to decide the choices in life other people make unless it either...

a) directly involves them personally or

b) They're asked for guidance on what he/she/they should do

Personally I wouldnt do much of anything differently from what those 3 did as I also believe friends help eachother out whether the decisions are irrational or not. I would however have gone the extra mile stating my disapproval on the situation tho, so as to make it quite loud and clear they know my stance on the whole thing and send the message that I hope they reconsider this plan down the road sooner rather than later. But I wouldnt stop them. I dont know if I would go as far as throwing away all my life savings like Minorin did but I would pitch in and help them in some way.

That being said there are times and situations in life where being forceful and stopping your friends is the better option. However I didnt feel this was the case as far what happened in this episode.

[typhonsentra]

Yeah I've been in situations with friends who've wanted to do things I felt were crazy but it's hard to say much other than voice concern when someone's really determined to do something. I didn't look down on them for doing what they did in the show.

[Vexx]

I can't quite remember when I've seen such a spread divergent pattern on an episode vote.

[typhonsentra]

You usually see it in episodes where a couple becomes set. I'm not saying that's everyone's motivation because it isn't but a comparable spread happened with say.... Clannad episode 18 for instance. This is a bit more negative but I think the opinion will soften a lot once people get see the next episode.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I can't quite remember when I've seen such a spread divergent pattern on an episode vote.

I remember where: True Tears Episode 13 (eerily similar statistics). I guess I'll leave everyone to form their own conclusion about what the similarity between these two situations is, although I certainly have a theory of my own...

(Edit: Yeah, basically what typhonsentra said. Too slow (though I provided an example with a link!) )

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Hane

First of all, you have no idea how warm and happy I feel when I read something like this

You too like to read every post before posting in a thread?

Originally Posted by Hane

Second, I took this series for granted.

It's the fact that I found out it was originally a light novel series. All such adaptions I've watched so far are unfinished, and the wiki said this one was ongoing.

So I watched, blissfully unaware it would end in 25. As in really end. I mean, to understand just how deep I was in, when I saw the last year of high school come round I told myself "Gee, this rocks. I wonder if the author will cover college in season 2!"

Then I check the wiki again and it says the novels wrapped up March 10, 2009.

I cannot hope to express my rage and despair in words.

Wow I understand your rage. It's always sad when a show we like comes to an end even more when we didn't expected it! I at least already knew it would end here for a long time so I'm prepared (but it's sad... no more Toradora... let's hope the autor may work in a sequel or related work later).

[SageGaiGar]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I remember where: True Tears Episode 13 (eerily similar statistics). I guess I'll leave everyone to form their own conclusion about what the similarity between these two situations is, although I certainly have a theory of my own...

(Edit: Yeah, basically what typhonsentra said. Too slow (though I provided an example with a link!) )

do share. (in PM if it takes too long)

Some of the dissent goes back to the drama bits starting to overtake the 'comedy'. Add in the sinking ships and you have an atmosphere that a few fans might not be overly fond of.

I see a similiarity with Clannad, sharing a bit of an opinion of not quite being fond of the pairing yet gradually starting to accept and even like it. A lack of such (flexibility?) might be a component of, well any, heated argument.

Agreed with typhon that there should be some calm with the next episode.