2006-08-03, 09:16 | Link #1 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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What is Gundam?
To avoid pollution on the "own Gundam series" thread, I'm splitting out the issue of how Gundam is defined.
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Normally, I say that originality is overrated, but I think that Turn A greatly benefits from having a very distinct setting. Any future attempt by Gundam to explore the same general concepts is pretty much doomed to a dismal reception. On the other hand, if you are talking about how the Cosmic Era can craft a more introspective show with emphasis on character interaction in the style of the early parts of Turn A, then I agree wholeheartedly the creators should give it a try. While the main formulaic elements have been firmly established, there's still plenty of room to play with as long as the creators have the courage to be a little more adventurous. As a side note, Gundam shows have also been plagued with relatively poor writing. The dialogue, in particular, tends to be especially weak. This is a trend that I really hope that future works can buck.
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2006-08-03, 10:02 | Link #2 |
~Night of Gales~
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Gundam is a giant franchise, the leading figure in the mecha world of anime, and it spawns all over into animation, games, cards, models and any form of medium that attracts money.
Seriously, I think Gundam suffers from being known as a robot show rather than a war show with humans piloting robots. One thing I've noticed is the trend of conceptuality that Gundam drives the story of cool robot action/battles and the contrast of slower, more methodical structure of telling a story on characters piloting robots in war. And thus, I think it's fairly obvious that almost every Gundam anime employs episodes where the battles fought weren't meaningful and while a minor part of the story, it could've contributed so much more as a character episode than a more fighting episode with only little character development. |
2006-08-03, 10:32 | Link #3 | |
Logician and Romantic
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Ironically, if I was watching GSD instead back then, I would have loved it.
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2006-08-03, 13:58 | Link #5 |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It also kinda sucks how most main Gundam series always takes the same formula in terms of story.
1) suprise attack from enemy side. 2) leave colony and fly around space for a while. (or earth) 3) drop to earth (or go to space) 4) reverse the process 5) climatic battle in space And god....how many more "drop the colony on earth" plots are they gona use. |
2006-08-03, 19:25 | Link #7 | |||
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I haven't seen SD Gundam Force, but I would imagine that it would be a bit of a stretch to compare it in any way to any of the other Gundam shows. Quote:
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2006-08-05, 13:22 | Link #9 | |
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I think that's the main question.What is the target of gundam?Once you answer that you can look the details(settings,mecha etc). I think one probleme is that under the name gundam there're shows with completely different targets. I think it's safe to say that the OAVs(or OVA?I never remember) are for old teenager and young adults(probably male).Most of times they are more serious.It's really obvious for Stargazer. But the main gundam shows(50ep)have a different target. They are younger and aren't always male (If I remember well,they wanted to boost female audience with GS). It's hard to please every one and it gets worse with time.When you have the new generation of kids and the old generation which is adult now,you almost have to create two different shows in one (if not three if you want to attract females,I suspect we owe them the ZxY syndrome but I could be wrong ). When the main question is answered,you know if your show has more action or plot and character dvlpt.
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2006-08-05, 14:11 | Link #10 | ||
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I think that the greatest problems in Destiny actually stem from trying to please the traditional Gundam fans. My opinion is that they should have ignored this segment altogether and just went ahead with telling their own story.
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2006-08-07, 02:27 | Link #11 | |
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Originally written by me: "Then again, that might not be bad in and of itself. At the very least, it would let the Gundam franchise be a little more adventurous."
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Contrast this with Macross: the original SDF Macross is as grim and dark as anything seen in Gundam, but something as silly and different as Macross 7 can still be one of the most popular parts of its franchise. But SD Gundam Force is instantly condemned as a kids' show, or Seed Destiny is castigated for relatively minor flaws; when their true crimes are being quite different from the rest of the franchise. It really seems to put a damper on any type of experimentation when it comes to Gundam.
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2006-08-07, 07:06 | Link #12 |
JONLIの憂'
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It does kind of suprise me that Macross manages to do things differently everytime while Gundam is still stuck at one spot...yet still much more popular.
I personally think Gundam wouldnt change this formula until i graduate from University (4 years), by that time probably Gundam would be deemed a below average or mediocre show that forces the producers to ultimately change its formula for the better. And like how one of the posters pointed out before, the series itself is controlled by the model producers, some of the plot points are forced to change so that it would boost model sales. Such as Deakka's defection, im sure if the producers didnt limit Fukuda and his wife...destiny and Seed would probably be much more enjoyable. Off topic: I got a few questions to ask, was Macross 7 actually widely accepted by its fans? Did it do well financially? I personally hated the show...it really turned me off....although i still forced myself to finish the series.... How about Robotech? Is it doing better than Gundam internationally? Or is it only more popular in the States? Would you actually prefer Macross over Robotech? |
2006-08-07, 08:04 | Link #13 | |
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There was no limit from producers, that was just a rumour. Fukuda got screwed BY his wife (in the non-sexual sense) and nearly Crashed & Burned GSD because of it. Just ask the production staff. (It's amazing how overdue scripts can ruin everything. It's just unprofessional for the chief scriptwriter to hand her scripts in late.) Could there be some influence from Bandai? Sure. But thus far the major failings of GSD had nothing to do with them. Fukuda was barely able to keep the show afloat as it was, so it is unlikely Bandai will shoot themselves in the foot by demanding sudden and dramatic changes mid-production. The issue from Bandai wasn't "We want to sale XYZ gundam, can you give it more screentime?", but was instead "Another filler episode? Are you sure there is enough time remaining to have an ending that wasn't a laughingstock and ruin our reputation? Are we going to be able to sell ANY GS Destiny models at all?" Here is a nicely written post by WingDarkness on this subject that I have taken a liking to. I generally don't agree with most things proposed by WD, but his posts have a certain special flavour that I have yet to learn to duplicate. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=201
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2006-08-07 at 08:20. |
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2006-08-07, 08:29 | Link #14 |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Thank you for enlightening me in that situation.
But that doesnt deny the fact that they are limited by the producers. Clearly ms.wife must have been having trouble with the scripts for real reasons not just because she's a bad writer. As i've said earlier the model producers can actually manipulate Fukuda and his wife to change the events of the series. Maybe she's having trouble producing the scripts because of the limitations imposed by the model producers? Im just speculating, bust Wingdarkness' post doesnt deny the fact that mainstream gundam shows are largely influenced by model sales. |
2006-08-07, 08:50 | Link #15 | |
Logician and Romantic
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The GSD production crew got pissed off because Fukuda allowed his wife to hand in the script later and later. It got to the stage when one animation director exploded on his own personal blog with anger. Why can't she be a bad writer? The GSD staff members believe she is, and frankly I will take their words for it. And you seemed to not understand the concept of priority and how serious it was. The entire GSD series nearly died halfway through airing. No corporation, no matter how greedy, will risk killing its own franchise. Do you know how serious it would be to stop a show on primetime? Do you know how many heads would roll had it happened? GSD was collapsing. If it was Bandai's fault, we would have heard about it by now. Any and every evidence of fault points to Fukuda's wife, even when Fukuda tried to cover for her. Corporations are greedy, not suicidal. Or do you believe they graduated from the same university as Dr Evil?
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2006-08-07, 09:15 | Link #16 |
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^Bandai is the diet-coke of evil, they're just not evil enuff...Hmmm, where have I heard that saying before??
But think about all the promotions, in-show tie-ins, and pre contracted advertising (for them and the TV station) that would have been blasted had GSD ended (Bandai would have had to pay for all that $hit and risk alienating future ventures)...They really had no choice but to keep serving us slop, because anything would have been better than production ending...That would have been a black-eye for anime...Especially when everyone knows Gundam is the most lucrative anime franchise in Japan...
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2006-08-07, 09:17 | Link #17 |
~Night of Gales~
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Wow, this has got to be one of the few post that strikes Morosawa more than Fukuda.
Anyway, I wouldn't exactly say that Morosawa is a bad writer. She had her share of contributions in various good animes, but all of them often point to one thing. Morosawa works best when she's asked to handle short stories in form of OVAs or when her husband, Fukuda actually writes half of the script for the series. Contrary to popular belief, Fukuda is actually capable of writing and coordinating scripts, but he suffered the Ishida Akira/Athrun effect where his lack of confidence at something he wasn't adept at (( not a scriptwriter by original profession )) eventually allows his wife to handle at least 90% of the anime which script she writes. The only anime that didn't was G.E.A.R Dendoh, where Morosawa contributed like....15%. GSD suffered from bad writing. Even as a fan, I won't deny that. But that has nothing to do with what is Gundam, so back on topic, guys. Edit : Shouldn't it be 2nd lucrative? But I suppose Ghibli doesn't really count as a franchise....... Talking about stopped production, when the hell is 12 Kingdoms going to be continued!? That's a black eye there. |
2006-08-07, 10:21 | Link #18 | |||
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2006-08-07, 11:06 | Link #19 |
JONLIの憂'
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Uh huh, I see, understood.
If she was "The One" that butchered the whole Destiny series....why didnt the top officials of Bandai/Sunrise just fire her? Change the script writer...if it was this serious they should take extreme measures. Unless Fukuda's influence on the company is really big or something. |
2006-08-07, 11:22 | Link #20 | ||
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Well Anime aside, SD Gundams has long been around, I remeber buying tons of plamo when I was a kid which is in the 80s and they were HUGE back then despise they are only a line of toy side product without anime. What makes them cool back than were that there are SD gundams that looks like samurais and knights and commandos and they all have their little words, the plamo will also inculde a page of continuous manga that shows story and their personalities. They were relatively cheap (about $3-4 USD) compare to regular size Gundams in either ($20-30) . Quote:
Unfortunately, her script changes does meet the demand of mass market and in the end that's what matters. Personally, what messd up GSD's plot, IMO, was that the focus shift from Shinn to Kira too abruptly, and ends up with Shinn really not serving any point in the series. While I love Kira/Lacus, and enjoy all the kira ownage. I wish they stick to what they intended originally by either stick with Kira as main character or stick Shinn even if he s#ck. Last edited by Undertaker; 2006-08-07 at 11:33. |
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