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View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 17 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 4 | 8.89% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 7 | 15.56% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 4 | 8.89% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 13 | 28.89% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 8 | 17.78% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 4 | 8.89% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 2 | 4.44% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 3 | 6.67% | |
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-07-25, 02:49 | Link #41 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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In the end, he took responsibility for failing yet again, but what am I supposed to take from this? Cool he went on a wild goose chase and was man enough to admit he screwed up. So is the lesson that he should never do anything again? That he should always be on the side lines? I mean I don't get what the point of this arc was. I don't felt it did good for his character, rather it was just the opposite.
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2011-07-25, 03:12 | Link #43 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 34
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The most predictable way to show growth in Enishi's character would have been to have him succeed at something big. The message there being that the ablility to take charge and succeed is the barometer of personal worth and maturity. Instead, the episode suggested that the way you deal with failure is more reflective of character than your ability to create success. That's actually an interesting take on Enishi's and Takako's characters that I wasn't expecting. It could have been better executed, but I don't think the intent behind the episode was misguided. (I now realize that that sentence is a strange meta-reference to the episode itself, but it wasn't originally intended that way.)
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2011-07-25, 03:17 | Link #44 |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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I'd tend to interpret the arc as stressing the importance of responsibility and due deligence - especially in "too good to be true" situations. That's what get Enishi into trouble: the idea of the inn being promoted via a movie is pretty sound on the surface(in contrast to the ideas he had earlier in the show), but he wasn't careful and got fleeced.
I do find it interesting that his mom didn't step in, indicating that she may have wanted to see him take the hit. She actually seems to respect him a little more afterwards. And of course, as mentioned earlier I expect that the events here (the lost money in particular) may play a role later in the show. Edit: Actually, I like Kagayaki's interpretation is better than mine. I think he nailed it.
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2011-07-25, 03:33 | Link #45 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I guess I should rephrase myself.
Yes, he took responsibility and this shows strength of character for him. But other than the ability to man up, what else does Enishi got going for him? He's a failure at everything he does and his sister is far better than him. They ham fisted this point really hard, plus having him act like a bumbingly fool around Takako didn't help either. Basically, strength of character isn't worth much when you walk in foolishly into the mistake in the first place, and have a history of incompetence on these matters. You can own up to your actions when they fall through, but if your actions are always wrong... So what? If he was owning up to his failure after being rather successful with other things, the point would've been far better IMO.
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2011-07-25, 04:09 | Link #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 34
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@Reckoner: Yeah, Enishi doesn't really have anything else going for him, and what you pointed out (that he walked so foolishly into the mistake) may or may not have been the main flaw in how they tried to execute Enishi's character growth. I'll have to think about that some more, since I'm not sure where exactly his character went wrong.
So I agree with you that Enishi is not the most compelling character, but I don't think it's because he fails at everything, including business savvy and common sense. I don't think you have to be good or even halfway decent at anything at all to be a good character in a story. You can probably think of at least one protagonist you like who falls into this category: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FailureHero. And it's not like you could take every character from that category and make them good/better at something and suddenly they'd be more compelling. There's something else at work here.
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2011-07-25, 04:21 | Link #48 | |
On a mission
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Another sign of a character is a good conflict. Yet, from the conclusion we get, that in no shape or form really solves any conflict internal or external. The main problem is that the anime phoned home to us that he is too much of a fail to run the inn, giving someone else an excuse to inherit the inn. But... that's nothing we didn't know already. We knew he was a bumbling idiot that gets cheated a lot. In fact, you could have compressed these 2 episodes into 1 and it wouldn't matter. You could have compressed into 5 minutes and it won't matter. When a character's development causes no real net change in the way we view him aside from such flimsy and unconvincing backstory, plus the fact that the character isn't deserving of empathy, nor does the character generate any empathy, and said character has the interest of a cardboard box, it's a failure in every conceivable aspect. This barely qualifies as anything. In other words, I feel like they're better than this.
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2011-07-25, 05:31 | Link #51 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I realize that the movie was a colossal failure, but….
I believe that Enishi did several important things in these last two episodes. He escaped his sister’s shadow, his mother’s cool indifference and her decision to let go of the past and her dream of Satsuki running the Inn, and finally made Takako explicitly aware of their mutual feelings for each other. The pool scene was important for that reason alone. I also like that Yuina came to help Kissiuso when she became aware of the scam. I liked her tact in not mentioning to the oblivious Ohana that there was a con being run. The bow that beanman and Yuina shared showed that her discretion was appreciated. |
2011-07-25, 05:53 | Link #52 |
Disabled By Request
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This was my expression throughout the entire episode. The more I watch, the more I understand that out of all the characters, Minko's the only one I really like because she's got the most down to earth, mature, realistic attitude and can actually see when something makes no sense or is just pointless. Her and Tomoe both. This ep was just a pain to watch (except when Ohana got shot). Enishi makes a huge mistake, he nearly mans up when he talks to Satsuki, but minutes later is desperate to get under that other woman's pants. Terrible. Just plain terrible. On the other hand, Satsuki's winning more respect from me. I do like how she called Kissuiso to tell them of her suspicions. She's started to care a bit more about what goes on around there.
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2011-07-25, 07:15 | Link #55 | |||||||||
Senior Member
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Just because it's predictable doesn't make it bad. Nor does it make the exact opposite the right or smart move. I doubt many Bleach fans, for example, would be happy with the series ending on the note of Aizen absolutely destroying Ichigo, and going on to achieve all his goals (The End!). Sure, you'd have a few people celebrating how "bold and daring" it is, but most passionate fans of the show would loath it to pieces, I'm sure. I'd much, much, much prefer this episode if it had shown Enishi succeed at something for a change. That would have been incredibly preferable to what we did in fact get, imo. Part of the reason is... Quote:
I'm going to be a bit blunt here, and I apologize if it offends anybody, but I think that it needs to be said - In a medium that frequently glorifies NEETs and Hikikomoris, having a show that takes a much more practical and realistic approach to work and adult life in the real world is something that I appreciated. It's something that I liked a lot about Hanasaku Iroha. Hanasaku's idea of "loving your work" is one that I think the anime world would benefit from seeing conveyed. I would argue that part of "loving your work" is actually becoming good at it; maybe not great, but at least generally competent. But the message of "It's Ok if you're completely and consistently inept at your work (as long as you admit to that)" is just more of the same sort of easy acceptance of social maladjustment and/or occupational failure that I see too often in anime. The fact is that guys like Enishi and Jiromaru would likely be close to self-destruction if in the real world. Enishi has likely cost himself the inheritance of the Inn as a price for his failure, and unlike his sister and niece, there's not many practical work options I can see for him outside of inheriting the Inn (i.e. he needs this a lot more than Satsuki or Ohana does). Jiromaru is one small step away from being homeless, even in this anime. As for Takako, I'd honestly like to know how she's earning a living (I doubt Enishi is paying her much, or she wouldn't have turned on him so easily in this episode). Quote:
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Here is a case where the predictable approach would have been the best approach, imo. Quote:
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A protagonist should have at least some redeeming character traits, in my opinion. What's Enishi's? That he admits to failure when he fails? I'm sorry, but that's not enough in and of itself, in my opinion. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that while one lovable loser can usually work (I'm thinking of Sunohara in Clannad here at the moment), three or more of them (as Hanasaku aims to have) is really pushing it, imo. Quote:
100% comedic villains is about the only character type that can get away with a complete lack of redeeming qualities, imo. Quote:
Yukiatsu works precisely because he appears to be highly successful and 'with it'. Hence, his major hidden weaknesses and flaws serve as a great contrast to his outward image of the successful and popular high school student. Jinta and Poppo have some knocks against them, but both are given moments to shine, and that helps immensely for both.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-07-25 at 10:27. |
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2011-07-25, 12:03 | Link #56 |
Nyaa~
Join Date: Mar 2009
Age: 35
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It's interesting that some people felt that Enishi claimed responsibility for his actions. Watching the episode that I didn't receive any sort of impression of that at all. Everytime Takako tries to tell him it's his fault, he brings it back to a "we". It's as if hes afraid of the responsibility. Enishi was the one in charge, he was the one who had full control over the situation. He was the one who screwed up. And yet, even with the conversation with his mother, he takes full responsibility for Takako? This makes no sense to me. It's as if his mother is telling him it's not his fault but the fault of the "evil" woman beside you. Enishi needed to take a punishment for his actions, not Takako. The impression I received was Enishi didn't learn anything. It seems as if he's still incapable of coming to his own conclusions and uses others as a crutch.
This episode felt like it was trying to go somewhere and never did. Last edited by Foreshadow; 2011-07-25 at 14:44. |
2011-07-25, 13:11 | Link #57 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Foreshadow already said what I wanted to say regarding Enishi taking responsibility.
I don't hate Enishi. I sympathize with him, even pity the poor guy. But he didn't accept responsibility for the debacle in any significant way. He didn't even accept the fact that it was his signature on the contract. That Takako was only an advisor - the final decision was his. He didn't accept that good intentions - which, yes, Takako had - just aren't enough. How? He nearly hit Takako when she pointed out how hung up he was on his sister, and his mother nearly proposed the position of heir to her, right in front of him. He hasn't escaped anything. |
2011-07-25, 15:01 | Link #59 | ||
On a mission
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I don't understand why redeeming qualities are prerequisite to having a good character. Sometimes, you can make a good story by having a failure of a character learn from his mistakes or gain some redeeming qualities. Or least try. Some may argue that if they eventually do grow into better characters that the redeeming quality was there all along, but I reject this kind of thought, because it takes away credit from them in earning said development. The anime Kaiji is a good example of someone who is utterly pitiful, selfish, and pathetic, but the anime is about him molding to something else. Or there's the whole bunch of so called "anti-heroes" that lack redeeming qualties but are intresting characters in their own right. Asuka Langley Soryuu from Evangelion most certainly has competent traits, but she's utterly terrible as a person and arguably rotten to almost the core. But her character works because of the circumstances that surround her. Essentially, a bad character is someone that not only lacks redeeming traits but is poorly justified, weaknesses are for comical reasons, and empathy is requested (obviously ending in failure) Any good things about them are typically only on paper. Basically, the female lead of Ore Imo. Einshi is like that, just much less obnoxious. Does he learn? On paper yes. Do we care? Probably not. Quote:
But within a few episodes, he proves that he is a much better character than any of the Hana Iro cast save for Ohana, because well... they gave a damn! He's... actually a person. TL;DR My main concern is for characters to be human. And some people are seriously flawed; that's fine. Einshi... I'm not sure what he qualifies as, but to me he's more of a cardboard prop for comedy. Same goes for Jinomaru.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-07-25 at 15:17. |
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2011-07-25, 15:16 | Link #60 |
Blooming on the mountain
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....
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*Sigh*
Well, that ep was a bit of a let down. For the moment I will give it the benefit of the doubt and hope that the ... err ... rather uninspiring threads laid down in this episode will be used towards the end in an unexpected way that will wow me. At least I hope it does. Please? Otoh maybe this is a good sign in the sense that hopefully the show can only go "upward" from here! At least I hope it is. If this mini arc is not pulled into some kind of grand finale at the end methinks I will be a bit disappointed at what seems to be (ultimately) needless filler eps.... I will wait until the end of the series to rant to the positive or negative though! (And someone remind me to do so if I forget to....
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