Growing out of anime

[Archon_Wing]

What the hell is wrong with mecha? :/ If anything there needs to be more mecha, as honestly I don't really see that many.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This claim is patently false if you actually go through the list of shows each season, unless you apply hugely broad brushes and, for example, label everything as moe based on character design alone and eliminate all shows targeted at kids and families. Even then, it's still objectively false.

I'm not trying to say that it may not feel that way to you... but it isn't actually true.

It does feel that way to me sometimes. However, I'm the first to admit that my own tastes are weird.

But, I also understand that the studios are going to put out what's popular.

This hasn't ever not been the case. Anime has never been particularly "original" or "grown up". The only difference is that, nowadays, you have access to the full fire hose of content that you have to sort through on your own, whereas things were much more curated in decades past due to the language barrier. Of course, the overall quantity of productions has also gone up now compared to 10+ years ago too, so that increases the triage as well.

That's true, I guess.

I just have to look at what's out there.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

What the hell is wrong with mecha? :/ If anything there needs to be more mecha, as honestly I don't really see that many.

There's nothing wrong with mecha.

It just seemed like for awhile there, every other show was mecha.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

There's nothing wrong with mecha.

It just seemed like for awhile there, every other show was mecha.

The only problem I see in mecha is the size of it.... Ok, let me finish... Remember Voltes 5, etc.. They're big. Why? Their opponents are big in the first place. And why did they made it big, though they are small?

Is bigger cooler and mightier?

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

And why did they made it big, though they are small?

I am confused by this.

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Is bigger cooler and mightier?

I'd say probably, considering how Gurren Lagann progressed with its mecha.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Shyni

I am confused by this.

Sorry. Why do they have to make giant mecha though they (humans) are small, the same as their opponents. I think its better to make an android army like in StarWars

[jdennis007]

Because there is just something cool about riding in a giant robot.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by Tempester

How about taking at look at what's airing right now? I don't think I have to name-drop two certain currently running sci-fi anime that are leagues more mature than the majority of anime, new or old.

Look into some of the threads...I've posted in Psycho Pass.

Just forget what I said. Now people are pissed at me and that wasn't what my intention was...

[Somnus]

Allow me to steer this back on topic by saying, rather than "growing out" of anime...as I'm sure I'll always be able to enjoy well-done shows in certain genres no matter my age, it's definitely one of the things in my life to which dedicated time gets reduced when another element gets tossed in.

Case in point, recently acquired girlfriend. Surprisingly, she's okay with anime but doesn't watch it herself (her younger sister does though). Spending more time with her and less time watching anime (not that I spend a large amount on it nowadays anyways) was an easy decision to make on my part.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Somnus

Allow me to steer this back on topic by saying, rather than "growing out" of anime...as I'm sure I'll always be able to enjoy well-done shows in certain genres no matter my age, it's definitely one of the things in my life to which dedicated time gets reduced when another element gets tossed in.

It depends on what people perceive "anime" to be. You're right if we regard it as a medium of animation that originates in Japan. If we begin to consider the "anime culture" that is usually involved then I disagree.

There are certain themes, character types, and character behaviors that are fairly prominent within and somewhat unique to anime. When you're actively watching and enjoying what anime has to offer these traits are endearing and entertaining, if you even notice them at all. It's quite possible to find those things grating on you, though.

That has been my experience. I used to watch anime like crazy, going through every show I could get my hands on and plastering the walls of my room with posters and wall scrolls. The amount of anime that I watched began to diminish gradually over the course of a few years, until I stopped watching completely. Two or three years went by and then I decided that I wanted to get back into it. I started with a series that everyone was raving about, one with a synopsis such that I should have fallen in love with it given my interests and past viewing experience: Steins;Gate.

I watched the first episode and hated it. The characters all seemed warped, either psychotic or overly dramatic (or both), and the events that went on seemed absolutely ridiculous. I don't think that what I saw was so far out from other series and characters that I've watched. Rather, I was no longer used to those antics, and my expectations had shifted. I chose a then slightly tamer series (Moshidora, which is fairly bland as far as anime goes - or rather, lacks a lot of traits of "anime culture") and while there was still some acclimation involved, I was able to enjoy it. I took on one or two more fairly tame series before hitting the "hardcore" series again. I haven't gone back to try Steins;Gate, but I'd imagine that at this point, returned to the fandom, I'd probably enjoy it.

[synaesthetic]

The lack of good hard sci-fi is something that bothers me considerably, but softer sci-fi doesn't seem to be slowing down much. I can't speak for anime, really--I've become so frustrated with the medium that I haven't been paying attention to new releases--but the gaming industry has been churning out loads and loads of sci-fi titles.

The Mass Effect series is ridiculously popular, and it draws heavily from 70s and 80s sci-fi tropes.

I don't think I'm growing out of anime so much as I simply dislike the state of the industry currently. Japan never managed to crawl completely out of their economic implosion and it's showing quite visibly in the number of otakubait shows that are released every year--and this keeps rising.

I miss the wide breadth of genre and theme that pervaded anime throughout the earlier years--it seems that every other show these days is another moe-infused fanservice fest with little actual substance.

Oh, I understand why this happens--these kind of stories are cheap and easy to write and by their nature lend themselves to simpler art direction and don't contain budget-draining battle scenes and setpieces. They're gobbled up by the hardcore otaku population in Japan and are really well-suited to selling lots and lots of licensed merchandise.

It's just depressing. What happened to the shows like Planetes, Starship Operators, Eve no Jikan, Noein, Dennou Coil? The simple answer is that discerning fans are more expensive to please, so the industry ignores us in favor of the more gullible, more easily amused "moe" fans.

The MMO industry has this same issue right now, hence the massive prevalence of the free-to-play with microtransactions model. The oldschool MMO gamers who prefer to pay a subscription fee to guarantee content updates, bugfixes and excellent customer support are being ditched in favor of the fickle, game-hopping, gullible F2P crowd.

The current model disincentivizes fostering loyalty in the customer base and promotes a revolving-door playerbase where folks sign up, play for a while, spend some money on the item mall, and then get bored and quit so that the bandwidth and server resources are thusly freed up for the next F2P kiddy.

This kind of "fast food entertainment" mentality is not restricted to social and multiplayer gaming alone. It's spread throughout film, literature and... yes, even anime and manga.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

It's just depressing. What happened to the shows like Planetes, Starship Operators, Eve no Jikan, Noein, Dennou Coil? The simple answer is that discerning fans are more expensive to please, so the industry ignores us in favor of the more gullible, more easily amused "moe" fans.

Shows like these still get made, though they are not necessarily financially successful. But don't try to pretend that there ever was such a high volume of them to begin with.

The latest fall season has Psycho-Pass and Shinsekai Yori. Neither of these shows are dependent on common anime tropes and devices.

There are reasons to be displeased with the direction of the industry, but I cannot agree with the idea that somehow these kinds of shows/movies/ova's don't still get made. It just means you aren't even trying to look in the right places.

[Archon_Wing]

Today sucks. Why couldn't it have been yesterday? That was when they made good stuff. Today at 12 midnight was when all the producers had a decrease of brain mass. Also, I watched Sword Art Online and that was pretty bad, so I'm not going to even try to find other good anime, since if something so hyped was bad, how could other animu stand a chance?

I like how frequent complaints about anime sucking now always generate an idealized anime from only a few years ago, as if it instead of realizing the grand perspective of things over the years as opposed to some kind of evil scheme to brainwash otaku into becoming mindless NEETs that has popped up over the last few years.

If anything, the variety has been growing since 2009 or whatnot...

I have simply heard too many complaints about every medium, and really everything, "dying" and becoming less varied or whatnot piled with some insulation that everything has been dumbed down to appeal to the masses. Well, curse the mouse and touchscreens then; they've dumb downed operating systems so that any fool can use a computer!

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Today sucks. Why couldn't it have been yesterday? That was when they made good stuff. Today at 12 midnight was when all the producers had a decrease of brain mass. Also, I watched Sword Art Online and that was pretty bad, so I'm not going to even try to find other good anime, since if something so hyped was bad, how could other animu stand a chance?

I would + rep you right now if I could.

[Azuma Denton]

How many of you watching Space Brothers right now?

[The Butcher]

Going to try Space Brothers this weekend sometime. I put off Hunter x Hunter since it has gotten below a high 6 on my scale. I don't have time for just "meh" shows right now. Space Brothers seems like a good replacement.

Anyways, sounds like nostalgia idiots can't find the good anime. I could also nitpick the old generation and assume it was all ecchi and moe >.>.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

How many of you watching Space Brothers right now?

Not me (although I may pick it up), but I'm very well aware of its existence, unlike some "anime experts" out there who think they can make sweeping historical statements about the industry.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Not me (although I may pick it up), but I'm very well aware of its existence, unlike some "anime experts" out there who think they can make sweeping historical statements about the industry.

Entertainment industries change over time. That's a fact. You don't have to be an "expert" to realize that.

There are differences between the sorts of movies that Hollywood makes today and the sorts of movies that Hollywood made back in the 80s.

This is not necessarily "good", nor is it necessarily "bad", but it is "for real". Some people may like it, but other people probably won't. Lots of people love all the superhero movies we now get (which certainly weren't commonplace prior to the 90s). Other people are getting sick of them. I totally understand where both sides are coming from.


There's also been changes within the anime industry, and the types of content it provides. I don't see the harm in civilly discussing that.

Also, one lone show is not that important to any genre unless it has a big impact on the anime fandom.

[Azuma Denton]

It's called market demand. Industry changes because market demands changes. Keep in mind that we are not Japanesse people, so we can't dictate what the demand are. If Japanesse people demand more moe, then anime industry have to give it, or they will not survive.

Not all anime is shitty nowadays, you just have to look harder.
For those who tired of the usual moe-moe anime, there are some good non-moe anime there. For this season (ongoing series) you can watch:
- Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
- Kingdom
- Chihayafuru 2nd season
- Space Brothers
- Shin Sekai Yori

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

- Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
- Kingdom
- Chihayafuru 2nd season
- Space Brothers
- Shin Sekai Yori

Strongly seconding this post. Okay I am not watching the first two yet but the last 3 are excellent and are definitely not your usual Otaku fare.

And okay perhaps there might not be a great shown in a genre you like one season (or even one year) but that doesn't mean there isn't good & intelligent anime to be found. I think people just need to expand their horizons a bit.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Entertainment industries change over time. That's a fact. You don't have to be an "expert" to realize that.

There are differences between the sorts of movies that Hollywood makes today and the sorts of movies that Hollywood made back in the 80s.

This is not necessarily "good", nor is it necessarily "bad", but it is "for real". Some people may like it, but other people probably won't. Lots of people love all the superhero movies we now get (which certainly weren't commonplace prior to the 90s). Other people are getting sick of them. I totally understand where both sides are coming from.


There's also been changes within the anime industry, and the types of content it provides. I don't see the harm in civilly discussing that.

I don't doubt that there are changes in the industry, but it's certain sweeping or extreme statements that irk me. Claims like "All that I see now are K-On clones, the industry is dying, what happened to the days when all anime was Cowboy Bebop?" are what I refer to. Claims like "There has been a obvious increase in rate of anime centered around high school lately, therefore I've found less interesting series to watch" are just fine.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, one lone show is not that important to any genre unless it has a big impact on the anime fandom.

The actual popularity or success of an anime can be important for future series which may ride on the popularity, but on a personal level, I don't think it matters. If I consider an anime to be a masterpiece, it's not that important whether it bombed or was a huge hit, I still consider it a landmark of quality. I'm really enjoying From the New World, and that anime is selling horribly. That does not cancel out its position in my mind as one of the most memorable sci-fi anime that have been produced in the last few years.