Mahouka - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

I do like the way they brought up Gram Dispersion via Miyuki's quick monologue since it served as a quick exposition to bridge events and it was done well in context. Hopefully they will make more use of this in coming episodes since they're going to need all the extra time they can squeeze out from each episode.

Honestly, I considered this disastrously bad.

If there is one message that the story does NOT need, it is more Tatsuya worship. Why take the limelight away from Miyuki, who has been diminished to a pretty doll and finally has a small scene to show her own skills?

This is exactly the skill-less heavy-handedness that is ruining the conversion to me. Why not just keep the "mystery" alive? The avid viewer will have picked up Miyuki's slight smile before her cast and drawn his own conclusion. Why spell it out?

It don't get it.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Honestly, I considered this disastrously bad.

If there is one message that the story does NOT need, it is more Tatsuya worship. Why take the limelight away from Miyuki, who has been diminished to a pretty doll and finally has a small scene to show her own skills?

This is exactly the skill-less heavy-handedness that is ruining the conversion to me. Why not just keep the "mystery" alive? The avid viewer will have picked up Miyuki's slight smile before her cast and drawn his own conclusion. Why spell it out?

It don't get it.

because author will have to rewrite his own magic rule?

and if for people who said it's Tatsuya worship from episode one where it was clear that class one treat him as second class and we saw how he can't use normal magic where only his sister and some people knowledge him because of his theory and physical part mind you
than it always will be Tatsuya worship anime for you no matter what

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Honestly, I considered this disastrously bad.

If there is one message that the story does NOT need, it is more Tatsuya worship. Why take the limelight away from Miyuki, who has been diminished to a pretty doll and finally has a small scene to show her own skills?

This is exactly the skill-less heavy-handedness that is ruining the conversion to me. Why not just keep the "mystery" alive? The avid viewer will have picked up Miyuki's slight smile before her cast and drawn his own conclusion. Why spell it out?

It don't get it.

Because everyone would cry bullshit? We're supposed to believe the failed attempts made magic unworkable on the car. Which already is something to absorb as far as setting goes. And then you want to add a "mystery" around how Miyuki could just ignore that rule?

Originally Posted by Tormenk

His address about the terrorist bit might seem harsh but given his experience and background as a prominent figure in the Master Clans, he's likely speaking from experience to educate the students, in the same vein as he advised them on the proper usage and treatment of magic use. His address carried a deeper point but unfortunately it was omitted as well so I'll leave it to someone else to bring it up if they deem it important enough for discussion.

My problem isn't really with the harshness. It's just, he sounds really pleased with himself, but:
- being spotted by five people is five too many for a surprise attack.
- his trick needed the complicity of the woman in front of him. So why not have her carry out the attack, while he was at it? I mean, sure, all eyes were on her, but so what? Would they have stopped her if she'd carried a bomb disguised as a prop?
- it doesn't explain how he'd get the bomb (or himself) in the building in the first place, if he was a bad guy.
- why just worry about the people on the stage? Why not worry about the waitstaff, who are the next thing to invisible without needing magic or a babe standing in front of them.

So, yeah, his little hypothetical scenario is a bit convoluted and not that scary. Erika kicking Morisaki's ass was a better demonstration that superior magic didn't guarantee victory.

[kagato3]

A more interesting question is how did Tatsuya pull that off. That would have required him to have known exactly what was going on in the bus to pull that off.

The 5 spotted him were most likely Tatsuya, Miyuki, Miyumi, Ichijo and Jumonji all of who have close links to the heads of the master clans. And the demonstration had more to do with the fact he was on center stage and almost no one noticed until he dropped the act. it is more impressive because as you said the waiting staff are next to invisible but it is that much harder to be so when you are the center of attention

[zerozeronine]

Originally Posted by kagato3

A more interesting question is how did Tatsuya pull that off. That would have required him to have known exactly what was going on in the bus to pull that off.

Remember in ep 7 at the terrorist HQ he was seeing things in a different dimension and see's beyond walls?He probably used it here,as he noticed the car noise jumping from the railing.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by kagato3

A more interesting question is how did Tatsuya pull that off. That would have required him to have known exactly what was going on in the bus to pull that off.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Elemental Sight

I think the same about the ones who noticed Kudou's trick.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Honestly, I considered this disastrously bad.

If there is one message that the story does NOT need, it is more Tatsuya worship. Why take the limelight away from Miyuki, who has been diminished to a pretty doll and finally has a small scene to show her own skills?

This is exactly the skill-less heavy-handedness that is ruining the conversion to me. Why not just keep the "mystery" alive? The avid viewer will have picked up Miyuki's slight smile before her cast and drawn his own conclusion. Why spell it out?

It don't get it.

Well since it happened they should explain it.

I would have prefered that Tatsuya was not involved in saving them at all though.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

y problem isn't really with the harshness. It's just, he sounds really pleased with himself, but:

Umm...

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

being spotted by five people is five too many for a surprise attack.

So if a terrorist attack did happen, you should assume somebody else should realise it and protect everyone?

The point as that, you might get killed in the future if magic happened and you didn't notice. The fact that 5 other people noticed is moot if they aren't around when you run into magic unawares.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

his trick needed the complicity of the woman in front of him. So why not have her carry out the attack, while he was at it? I mean, sure, all eyes were on her, but so what? Would they have stopped her if she'd carried a bomb disguised as a prop?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

why just worry about the people on the stage? Why not worry about the waitstaff, who are the next thing to invisible without needing magic or a babe standing in front of them.

The point is that he cast an large area effect magic and only 5 people noticed. The magic just happened to be invisibility to fit the situation.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

it doesn't explain how he'd get the bomb (or himself) in the building in the first place, if he was a bad guy.

Magic?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by moridin84

Well since it happened they should explain it.

I would have prefered that Tatsuya was not involved in saving them at all though.


Umm...


So if a terrorist attack did happen, you should assume somebody else should realise it and protect everyone?

The point as that, you might get killed in the future if magic happened and you didn't notice. The fact that 5 other people noticed is moot if they aren't around when you run into magic unawares.



The point is that he cast an large area effect magic and only 5 people noticed. The magic just happened to be invisibility to fit the situation.


Magic?

Look, you can always get stabbed in the back by a stranger, or sniped from afar, or killed in your sleep or something. Stuff happens. And yes, I suppose those kids could have been more vigilant. Maybe shot the creep who used magic to sneak around on sight, I don't know. But my point is, of all the things to worry about, "terrorist using magic to escape the eyes of the crowd and launch a suicide attack" is way down the list compared to more mundane threats. It's impractical, costly, and has low chances of success. (Heck, Kudou Retsu, one of the most respected magicians in the country, didn't actually pull it off. Erika spiking the punch is a much more realistic threat, and it wouldn't take magic.)

[bakato]

Originally Posted by RoboMambo

That old man was douche. He probably does that everywere. Someone enters a car, and hears from the backseat "If I was a terrorist you'd be dead". In a closet pretending to be a coat, in the batroom waiting in the shower box, or hidden under a kitchen sink, "If I was a terrorist you'd be dead".

Hardly. You've noticed before how magic is graded purely on power and not on how its used. This is an international standard and Kudou, who is considered a world authority on magic and considered the strongest magician of his time, speaking to the contrary is a pretty big deal.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Retsu, you mean? His point was that being clever matters more than being powerful. Though I don't think his demonstration was very good.

The magic he used was large in scale, but weak in power. Yet by being creative, he managed to pull the wool over an entire audience of magicians except for 5. That is very effective in making his point.

Originally Posted by Tormenk

They omitted Kudou's description from his appearance but he's actually over ninety in age iirc. Still, why they chose to omit eyeballs as part of his design is beyond me.

Kudou appeared in the recent volume's illustration. I think the illustrator intended his eyes to be shadowed. Not black.

Originally Posted by moridin84

The point is that he cast an large area effect magic and only 5 people noticed. The magic just happened to be invisibility to fit the situation.

Not invisibility. The magic he used was simply sensory interference. Everyone expected an old man to appear and instead they got a smoking hot woman in a dress. Naturally, they were all confused and focused their attention on the woman. Kudou's spell modified this completely natural phenomenon to divert their attention away from his presence, rendering him invisible. Not to the naked eye, but to their attention.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Look, you can always get stabbed in the back by a stranger, or sniped from afar, or killed in your sleep or something. Stuff happens. And yes, I suppose those kids could have been more vigilant. Maybe shot the creep who used magic to sneak around on sight, I don't know. But my point is, of all the things to worry about, "terrorist using magic to escape the eyes of the crowd and launch a suicide attack" is way down the list compared to more mundane threats. It's impractical, costly, and has low chances of success. (Heck, Kudou Retsu, one of the most respected magicians in the country, didn't actually pull it off. Erika spiking the punch is a much more realistic threat, and it wouldn't take magic.)

The invisibility + bomb was just an example. Whether it's effective or not is completely irrelevant.

I just rewatched the scene. He literally calls it a "simple magic trick" and states that the problem is that they were "deceived by such a simple, low magic trick".

The magic he used was large in scale, but weak in power. Yet by being creative, he managed to pull the wool over an entire audience of magicians except for 5. That is very effective in making his point.

Yeah that as well.

Not invisibility. The magic he used was simply sensory interference. Everyone expected an old man to appear and instead they got a smoking hot woman in a dress. Naturally, they were all confused and focused their attention on the woman. Kudou's spell modified this completely natural phenomenon to divert their attention away from his presence, rendering him invisible. Not to the naked eye, but to their attention.

Oh okay. I guess real invisibility is a fair bit more difficult.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by moridin84

The invisibility + bomb was just an example. Whether it's effective or not is completely irrelevant.

If you want to show off how effective cleverness is, I'd say the effectiveness of your trick is pretty relevant. At the very least, he should have used another "scenario" to put that trick in a context that made more sense. Something like "imagine a magician using that trick to get close to you". Because "imagine a magician using that trick to get on stage and trigger a bomb" is pretty stupid.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Because everyone would cry bullshit? We're supposed to believe the failed attempts made magic unworkable on the car. Which already is something to absorb as far as setting goes. And then you want to add a "mystery" around how Miyuki could just ignore that rule?

Not unworkable, simply extremely difficult. I would have found it believable that Miyuki had enough power, interference level, whatever the technical term is to break through the magical mess surrounding the car.

On the other hand, the whole "gram dispersion" thing didn't particularly bother me (aside from being yet another term that's tossed in without being explained) as it made it plain that Tatsuya was the one who dispelled the excessive magic around the car so Miyuki could work easily.

[HandofFate]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My problem isn't really with the harshness. It's just, he sounds really pleased with himself, but:
- being spotted by five people is five too many for a surprise attack.
- his trick needed the complicity of the woman in front of him. So why not have her carry out the attack, while he was at it? I mean, sure, all eyes were on her, but so what? Would they have stopped her if she'd carried a bomb disguised as a prop?
- it doesn't explain how he'd get the bomb (or himself) in the building in the first place, if he was a bad guy.
- why just worry about the people on the stage? Why not worry about the waitstaff, who are the next thing to invisible without needing magic or a babe standing in front of them.

So, yeah, his little hypothetical scenario is a bit convoluted and not that scary. Erika kicking Morisaki's ass was a better demonstration that superior magic didn't guarantee victory.

The point of the speech wasn't on how to plan out a perfect terrorist scenario. Its about application, and a lesson on the potential of using magic to accomplish an end.

What he used was a low-power magic skill that any magic kid can do, but it affected the room full of the elites of the elites handpicked for this competition, other than 5 people. Even Tatsuya was impressed because Kudou pretty much said something counter to the entire infrastructure of Japan's magic philosophy, which is stats is all that matters, and demonstrated it too instead of just preaching it with no follow thru like the blanche organization and the sheep they pulled in.

[HandofFate]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Honestly, I considered this disastrously bad.

If there is one message that the story does NOT need, it is more Tatsuya worship. Why take the limelight away from Miyuki, who has been diminished to a pretty doll and finally has a small scene to show her own skills?

This is exactly the skill-less heavy-handedness that is ruining the conversion to me. Why not just keep the "mystery" alive? The avid viewer will have picked up Miyuki's slight smile before her cast and drawn his own conclusion. Why spell it out?

It don't get it.

Yea, didn't like this part.
I thought for the most part, the adaptation was doing a good job of spoon-feeding some of the foreshadow and hints to anime-only viewers, and still keeping some of the mystery in to balance it out, but I disagreed with this part giving it away.

But then we did get people mad about Miba's whole thing being that she remembered something wrong, when it turns out that's not all it was. So I wouldn't be surprised if people went all mad about this part if they hadn't had Miyuki namedrop her brother saying it doesn't make sense when its obviously something planned to reveal later.

[tarajis]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Yea, didn't like this part.
I thought for the most part, the adaptation was doing a good job of spoon-feeding some of the foreshadow and hints to anime-only viewers, and still keeping some of the mystery in to balance it out, but I disagreed with this part giving it away.

But then we did get people mad about Miba's whole thing being that she remembered something wrong, when it turns out that's not all it was. So I wouldn't be surprised if people went all mad about this part if they hadn't had Miyuki namedrop her brother saying it doesn't make sense when its obviously something planned to reveal later.

I'm with you guys here... they should have left it with Miyuki's smile before she cast her freezing magic on the sliding car... then we get see people saying that it was [insert definition] Tatsuya who did that and then this and that...

Spoiler for possible spoiler:

It could be used to great effect later when people realize who and how the bunch of magic sequences got blown away from the sliding car...

[rladls2121]

Liking this part and dislking that part, it is hard to be good at everything it really.

When Mikihiko decided to go after the intruder alone, I was thinking, no Mikihiko call the security just to be safe, you are just a temperal serving waiter during the banquet.
To think Tatsuya was there and already took down the intruder.
After all he did hear from Kazama that a criminial syndicate No Head Dragon is targeting the Nine School Competition.
Tatsuya is already cautious from the beginning.

That old man's statement is like L's statement in Death Note series, "If I was Kira then you'd be dead".

In this series, family is a big deal in many different ways.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by rladls2121

Liking this part and dislking that part, it is hard to be good at everything it really.

When Mikihiko decided to go after the intruder alone, I was thinking, no Mikihiko call the security just to be safe, you are just a temperal serving waiter during the banquet.
To think Tatsuya was there and already took down the intruder.
After all he did hear from Kazama that a criminial syndicate No Head Dragon is targeting the Nine School Competition.
Tatsuya is already cautious from the beginning.

That old man's statement is like L's statement in Death Note series, "If I was Kira then you'd be dead".

In this series, family is a big deal in many different ways.

Yeah. They kinda messed that up. Those thoughts were introduced when Mikihiko first made his appearance after soccer practice.

[Mubyoshi]

Even though Miyuki is supposed to be the most beautiful girl or something, I find her not so attractive. Her eyes seems too far apart. Plenty of other girls looks better than her in this anime.

[rladls2121]

To me, Miyuki by herself is not the most beautiful.
But she is the most beautiful girl to me because she is always with Tatsuya by his side, without him her beauty is rather pointless.

Comparing Miyuki and the other female characters, this episode made me think Erika might be the girl more beautiful then her.
I want to add Mizuki and Shizuku in this comparison too.

For Mizuki, when Tatsuya always said "she has good eyes", I thought that too, I really want those eyes.
But, as Mikihiko says magicians getting their hands on Mizuki for that reason made me think do I really think Mizuki eyes are good to that extent?
Tatsuya's indirect objective of putting Mizuki attentive towards Mikihiko because Tatsuya did not want Mizuki to look at him so much that his secrets might be leaked.
Mikihiko, he is an another character, like Tatsuya, Mikihiko has some secrets, still not to level of Tatsuya though.
Aside from her eyes, Mizuki is really a normal magician.

I don't know about Shizuku though, but cannot help and think that she is a necessity for Nine School Competition arc.
Shizuku, friend of Honoka and Miyuki, not much shown of her in Enrollment arc, however in Nine School Competition arc.
Telling when Miyuki was feeling down on the bus that Tatsuya is a brother Miyuki should be proud of his brother because even in Tatsuya's inconvience, he did it as it's no problem.

I don't know if it is only me, but Miyuki is being one sided isn't she.
But I forgot what she was even being one sided about.
If I misunderstood then, please correct me so.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Honestly, I considered this disastrously bad.

If there is one message that the story does NOT need, it is more Tatsuya worship. Why take the limelight away from Miyuki, who has been diminished to a pretty doll and finally has a small scene to show her own skills?

This is exactly the skill-less heavy-handedness that is ruining the conversion to me. Why not just keep the "mystery" alive? The avid viewer will have picked up Miyuki's slight smile before her cast and drawn his own conclusion. Why spell it out?

It don't get it.

I considered it appropriate for giving a simple explanation in a short timeframe, just enough to catch the interest of the viewer but not enough to detract things from the general pace of the episode. As compared to leaving Tatsuya's ability unexplained in episode 7 in concluding Enrolment, this won't work any favors in maintaining the viewers' interest after 10 eps in. I would have been fine on the other hand if they had left that stupid spoiler of Tatsuya nuking the ship out.

On hindsight you're right about downplaying Miyuki and it could be better handled. However, this generally runs deeper to how her characterization and focus is handled from the novels in that Miyuki is used to complement Tatsuya rather than allowed to develop on her own. I see that as a problem too but one that can only be fixed in future developments in the novels.

I reckon that Miyuki would get her due spotlight from competing in Pillars Break and Mirage Bat and honestly speaking that's all she is going to get from this arc imo.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My problem isn't really with the harshness. It's just, he sounds really pleased with himself, but:
- being spotted by five people is five too many for a surprise attack.
- his trick needed the complicity of the woman in front of him. So why not have her carry out the attack, while he was at it? I mean, sure, all eyes were on her, but so what? Would they have stopped her if she'd carried a bomb disguised as a prop?
- it doesn't explain how he'd get the bomb (or himself) in the building in the first place, if he was a bad guy.
- why just worry about the people on the stage? Why not worry about the waitstaff, who are the next thing to invisible without needing magic or a babe standing in front of them.

So, yeah, his little hypothetical scenario is a bit convoluted and not that scary. Erika kicking Morisaki's ass was a better demonstration that superior magic didn't guarantee victory.

I would just say it was the slight bit of haughtiness his position as a so-called Patriarch granted to him in stating only five people would have the judgement to deal with his supposed situation.

It's probably just a parallel intended for the bus situation earlier on in that many able magicians were able to act but did so poorly against the few that are able to in this situation and limited by their expertise.

Kudou's intention could probably be better explained with his background and history but I don't want to give out unsolicited information as a certain poster has been doing since it frankly just spoils the enjoyment of other posters if they come across it without asking for any background info.