2010-12-19, 10:35 | Link #2381 |
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ohio
Age: 60
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I am a simple-minded viewer who has not read the manga or light novels or whatever, and who only watches each episode once. But I was so frustrated by the way Katanagatari ended that I felt I had to vent my frustrations somewhere where a few people would read them. Here are the thoughts which come to the mind of a viewer who was prepared to devote modest effort to understanding this show (in general, the more enjoyment I get, the more attention I pay and the more effort I devote in return):
I felt that the concluding episode of Katanagatari was a mess. The people who made this final segment seem to have been thinking 'let's just scramble everything up; nevermind if it makes any sense or not. The viewers will think that our unconventional approach was cool'. But some things are unconventional because it has already been shown that they don't work, and such was the case here. Spoiler for Spoiler::
Last edited by Stretch; 2010-12-19 at 10:55. Reason: Mistake |
2010-12-19, 11:42 | Link #2382 | |||||||||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Yes, he went to die. But he wanted to die fighting. Quote:
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The goal, if I understood it, was to do something about Perry's black ships. I didn't really follow how - did he want a stronger Japan, that would be in position to tell Perry to take a hike? Or a more open one, so there wouldn't be a need for gunboat diplomacy in the first place? Quote:
Evil? Not particularly. Quote:
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As for Hitei... Yes, she was Togame's rival and the antagonist. But she was never portrayed as evil, either. Quote:
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2010-12-19, 11:54 | Link #2383 | ||||||||
Tch.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
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These are all my own theories based on my understanding of the anime. Novel readers feel free to correct me.
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I couldn't bother with the whole post, but I hope this may help clear things. Katanagatari has it's faults (as do other series) but certainly not to retarded levels. Last edited by Kakkou; 2010-12-19 at 12:21. |
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2010-12-19, 13:31 | Link #2384 |
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ohio
Age: 60
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I admit that Katanagatari isn't 'retarded', it just isn't designed for the average viewer who is prepared to devote an average amount of attention and has an average attention span. Like I said, I have found that the amount of effort which I am prepared to devote to making sense of a show is directly proportional to the amount of enjoyment I get out of it. Episode four was spectacular, but otherwise the quality seemed to fall off after that and I lost a good deal of interest. I wasn't getting my money's worth, so to speak. So I didn't take notes, or rewatch episodes. But I think a really good show should make sense to most people without them having to do more than give it one solid watch. It should grab their attention and hold it right to the end. It should make them want to do whatever it takes to make sense of the plot. Katanagatari just didn't do that for me.
I still think that the final episode made mincemeat of the basic rules of storytelling even if there was a sort of logic to it after all. Likeable characters should come out OK, or, if they die, there should be a moving lesson to their deaths; I didn't feel that. Shichika became a villain, killing people left and right just so that he could die fighting; Togame died in a confusing and meaningless manner--it became meaningless when she admitted her plan to kill Shichika. Was she telling the truth or making it up so that he wouldn't be heartbroken by her death? There's no answer. And I'll never understand how the princess wound up as Shichika's new sidekick--I had thought that maybe he was attacking the castle to kill her as revenge for Togame. Togame never seemed a very hateful person to me, so the notion of her carrying out a meticulous plan to assasinate the Shogun never registered in my mind. And if Shichika really is superhuman, then that would mean that he was never really in much danger to begin with, so why should I get excited when he fights? And if Houou was already dead, who was that talking bird that brought Shichika a message? Emonzaemon? Houou always wore a bird costume. I guess I just took the absurdity of Katanagatari for granted, and assumed there would never be any explanation (like 'time travel') for the bizarre swords. Swords do such crazy things in anime (like moving faster than bullets, or knocking people off their feet without ever touching them) that this didn't seem all that odd. So, I wasn't looking for any rational explanation and didn't catch it when it came. Last edited by Stretch; 2010-12-19 at 14:19. Reason: Addition |
2010-12-19, 15:43 | Link #2386 |
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I just finished this, and elevated it to my Masterpiece list, of which only six other anime occupy. I shouldn't have to defend why I think its good, it should be apparent to everyone watching the series with a strong anime background. My only gripe is it was predictable at times, yet this was balanced by being unpredictable at other times.
Also, I hate the Narrator. She'd spoil stuff and it would tense me up, building suspense for when her forecasts came to pass. I'm confused by something, though. Katanagatari strikes me as similar to Musashi Gundoh in that there's a lot of anachronistic elements in a "wrong" timeline. Something happened during the Sengoku period that started history off in a wrong direction from how it happened in we, the viewer's universe. But what caused this? My impression of Shikizaki was he and his family acted sort of like the Illuminati or Ylliaster, keeping history on the straight course using their knowledge of how the world should be. Is this assumption correct - that the Yanari Shogunate came to be erroneously and Shikizaki + Takahito Hida were effective allies in trying to overthrow it? And the replacement of the Yanari Shogun with a Tokugawa Shogun corrected things? Or did Shikizaki himself cause the distortion, and somehow it was his plan to correct it?
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2010-12-19, 15:49 | Link #2388 | |
Mippa~
Join Date: May 2010
Location: America!
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2010-12-19, 15:59 | Link #2389 | |
Mahjong Triple Pro
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I understood he made the swords to influence the history, but I don't see the ends. It was said by Hiteihime that foreigners would invade Japan, but wasn't the Yanari Shogunate orchestrated by Shikizaki to those ends? Why would he go from establishing the Yanari Shogunate to wanting Shichika to destroy it? I want to know what aspect of Yanari is erroneous to Shikizaki, the fact that he was peaceful, which would have spelled the end of Japan when the foreigners invaded, or that he shouldn't have come to power at all, Shikizaki intended someone else to come to power.
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2010-12-19, 16:04 | Link #2390 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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In a way, the Yanari shogunate was a failure. Yes, history changed. But it didn't change enough. He wanted... something different. So he made his blades, including the Kyotoryu, hoping to twist history away from what he predicted. (But all it ended up doing was change a few names here and there.)
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2010-12-21, 12:51 | Link #2394 |
Master of Killing Time
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
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from what i've read in the thread, for those who didn't like the ending maybe because of the confusion with regards to the plot, my advice is to watch all 12 episodes again in succession as to get the clues/references that had been given all throughout the year.
as for the other reasons (protagonists becoming villains etc) that's how the "gatari" part of the title goes. if it is not to one's liking then there's nothing other people can do. there's just too many thoughts swimming in my head right now that i could not sort them all, all i know is that i'm glad i watched the nov/dec episodes at the same time, i wouldn't have been able to think of anything else if i saw the cliffhanger in ep11 and would have had to wait for another month to know the conclusion. all in all, this series is not for those who gets bored with long dialogue and would rather have eye catching visuals with their anime. although imho those long dialogues are what set this series apart from the rest, maybe excluding ef and bakemonogatari. in the words of hitei hime, i didn't dislike it edit: wow, just saw nihonreview's review, and it almost exactly tallies with what i've said. oh well, i guess i'm not the only one thinking the same thing. |
2010-12-21, 15:44 | Link #2395 |
ロック・オン!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nizhny Novgorod, Russia
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Second OST previews (45 seconds of each track):
Here Press ご試聴 under the cover artwork. Three first themes are from episode 5: Hiteihime's theme (lyrics seem to be in English), music that played right before the battle with Kanara and the one that was used for Togame's Cheerio BSoD. Didn't expect the last one, ha. The fourth track played a lot during comedic moments in the second half of the show, I can clearly remember hearing it a lot. Fifth track is a cheery playful theme of Konayuki, expected this one. Track seven sounds like it's from episode 12, though it probably predates to episode 7. Track 8 is the second theme for Maniwa ninjas, heard quite a lot. Track 9 is a theme that played in episode 8 when Biyori first appeared. Tenth is the first part of Biyorigou battle. I really hoped that one will appear and it did! Track 11 is "Lay back", a song that played right before the ending roll in episodes 3 and 7. A lot of people wanted this track. #12 played a lot too, mostly during Togame's tsuntsun moments. Track 13 is just a sinister tune which, again, played more than once and I can't quite point where it was used, Episode 11 comes to mind. You can hear Track 14 in Episode 9, after Togame has her third misunderstanding and freaks out completely. Track 15... Oh god, this is straight from Episode #1, Shichika's chase after Koumori. The following tracks are all from the last episode. 16 is a piano variation of one of the main themes that played throughout the series. 17 is a 9 minutes long song which played during Togame and Shichika's last dialogue. 18 is the showdown vs Emonzaemon. Oh yes. It's almost as epic as Gundam 00's Decisive Battle or Rebuild of Evangelion marches, which is saying a lot. Too bad the preview cuts off right where the best part starts. 19 is the new version of Bahasa Palsu which played during the boss rush. 20 is the epilogue of the last episode. Tunes that clearly missed the release are Shireizan theme and Higaki Rinne's theme. Oh well. I have already placed an order. I might doubt the series, but the score is a masterpiece. Last edited by Daniel Lind; 2010-12-21 at 16:02. |
2010-12-21, 16:39 | Link #2396 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Theme 13 was also used when Rinne started changing appearances
Sounds lovely tho, even if I miss 4 tracks which I feared wouldnt come out (that sinister theme that first played when Komori changed into Togame, the theme that played when Emonzaemon kills the Longlived Turtle, and the 2 tracks you mentioned) and I assume they put in that theme from episode 1 to give us the full 'Shichika takes the shogunate' experience Last edited by medigo; 2010-12-21 at 16:52. |
2010-12-21, 22:34 | Link #2398 | |
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
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Regardless of crossing opinions, this series was very successful. It sold almost 6000~8000 copies for every single volume of 12, which is rare success for having monthly releasing format. This proves how hardcore Nishio Ishin fans are. For me, this was an anime about the journey of Shichika and Togame becoming 'human'. This will be one of the best series I've watched this year.
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2010-12-21, 22:43 | Link #2399 |
Mippa~
Join Date: May 2010
Location: America!
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I will petrify your mind to night... Sounds like what the singa is singing for the First song lol. I like it, I have to get thsi Soundtrack. Damn lack of Money...
The song: "鳳" IS GOD TIER. 神の鳳凰 has one of the Kanji in Houou-sama's name :3 All the reason to make it more godlike ;D All in all, I like this OST much more than the last, And I was really hoping for the Shereizan music, or the music during the Shikizaki-Kazune meeting.
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action, adventure, comedy, edo setting, light novel adaptation, nishio, romance, tragedy |
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