[Manga] Chapter 262 Discussion

[Anh_Minh]

Is it said anywhere that Espada are numbered according to their strength? I'd have thought that whenever some new Arrancar makes it to the best ten, they kick out whoever's the weakest Espada and give the new guy the freed number.

[Crebstar]

Is it not possible that Kaien is a vaizard? The way he took off his mask strongly resembled the attributes of a vaizard, not an arrancar. I would place a good bet that the Hyo... (thing that aizen took from rukia ) can extract vaizard powers as well out of shinigami. Aizen has probably used the Hyo... on himself,gin,tousen, and kaien. If I remember correctly when Aizen was near leaving ss he expressed that captains had a limit and only way to increase power was to combine with a hollow.... So I am assuming he can make a vaizard with the object too... Or atleast some form of it.

[Lendial]

aizen created the original arrancar using unknown means(perhaps a form of kidou) but it wasnt with the orb, he cant just take a modified arrancar then orb it to a more perfect arrancar can he?

[lommm]

okay, first Subaku, it's R.A.G. and L.A.D.
R.A.D. is cooler, but it makes it the right arm of the devil, which is confusing.

second, as to the Kaein possibilities... well, if Aizen really can control what people see... the body that Rukia returned to the Shibas could have been an Aizen dummy just like his own dead body. alternative theory is that the reason SHiba clan fell from grace was that they had already experimented with Uruhara about possibilities on 'vizard' and they may have used something like that. this is very doubtful and there is no proof though...

the possibility that Kaien's body was an Aizen dummy is pretty good imho.

[hdx514]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I think everyone knew it was inveitable that Chad would lose once he faced an Espada. In fact, I noted this as soon as he got his R.A.D powerup

huh, chad loosing to espada? people were even talking about crappy RUKIA kicking espada arse, let alone chad, because they TRAINED, yeah, like a 1 month training for someone who hasn't improved in 50 years is going to work.

people were talking about afro saving chad, chad running away, chad putting up greater fight, chad defeating noitora... because otherwise it's S.S. all over, and with all his newly acquired powerups, his promise and big words to ichigo would be meaningless and he would just be the lameass he always has been. but you know what? that's EXACTLY what kubo has done. reality strikes, i love trashy character getting trashed the way they deserve.

It is a surprise to me the that the Espada would appear to do combat so soon though. If Kubo is indeed following the same trends he used in the SS arc, Renji and Ishida should do better in their battles and Ishida might actually pull out a win.

didn't i tell you espada NOT cannon fodder privalons will be the main enemies? it's obvious. and mind telling me how you arrived at the conclusion that a kubo who follows S.S. trend would have renji perform better? privalons are like the VC/seats of S.S., and if you don't recall, chad did BETTER in S.S. than HM:
-he had problem with afro, but never had any power struggle with the 3rd seat.

-shunsui dodged his attacks. it was speed, stamina and proper armor defense he was lacking. shunsui didn't take his hits, in fact shunsui was impressed by his power and thinks it would be bad if he got hit by chad's attacks

-chad's arms reveals their true forms. no longer is he lacking speed, stamina, defense or offense. noitora took a full hit from his ace offensive power without any blocking. NOTHING. he slashed chad's ace defense in half, and was UTTERLY UNIMPRESSED.

also, ishida did BETTER in S.S.
jirobo: similar fighting style as chirucchi, got chopped up in no time.

and now we've seen 2 espadas. in analogy, by the time we saw 2 captain confrontation in S.S.: the VC/seat fights are over.

so next up, renji vs. espada. and reasonable deduction from manga so far:
renji vs. espada fight = espada pwning him worse than byakuya pwned him, period

also, this chapter gives us hints as to how crap shunsui is compared to noitora. in terms of attacking power:
a - attack power of S.S. R.A.G(half-arsed form)
b - attack power of H.M. R.A.G(true form)
c - attack power of H.M. L.A.D.
c>>b>>a

shunsui: impressed by a, worried that it might be bad for him to get hit by a.
noitora: gets hit by c with zero effect and considers c trash
meaning: shunsui's defensive powers are shit compared to noitora

I doubt Rukia will actually do battle with an Espada (at least not alone).

doesn't matter when or where, she'll get trashed whenever and wherever

IMO, the Espada will be vaizard prey for the most part and I've seen a couple of posts with the same opinion.

the vaizards are S.S. outlaws, they hate shinigamis, first and foremost. they embraced hollow powers. if aizen's proud army (aimed at the royal family/royal guards) < vaizards, then the vaizards would have wipe out the gotei 13 like ants. they wouldn't have bothered with all these years of underground operations. espadas = full vaizard ichigo prey, ichigo =/= everyone else. see how hichigo trashes vaizard hiyori like nothing?

As for Noitora, based on the way he confronted Ulquorria (who is likely a vastrolorde) I seriously doubt he's no.8 but who knows? Luppi was weak and he trash-talked Grimm before being killed by him. Something tells me Noi is one of the higher ranks though.

you just answer your own question. and it doesn't matter if it's no.1 or no.10 espada, point is, none of them can take vaizard ichigo's getsuga without a scratch unreleased or cut through vaizard ichig's defense like butter. chad's just crap. don't believe that? MARK MY WORDS.

But the possibility of Kaien being an arrancar does bring up some questions for me. What would happen to the shikai and bankai of shingami turned arrancar? Do they maintain the same abilities or would they get replaced with an arrancar-type release

better not be kaien. it's lame enough to get killed by a failed experiment but becoming a slave to the enemy responsible for your wife's death?

[Wolcik]

and if Urahara came and healed up Kaien and Kaien went to HM just to pretend to be hollow/arrancar so he Urahara could have a spy and back stab Aizen when possible, than Kaien would ask Rukia to leave and wait, and she'd refuse :P
Chad getting owned is just like I thought, he won't put another flashback on us after having his arm cut in half Oo but Orihime will fix him up and when they run he will be prepering for the war to get revange or something XD

hdx514 Chad is a cool character whenever he looses or wins, this goes for Renji... but Renji hadn't shine for a long time and got even more Fanboys and Fangirl all over the world than Chad could ever dream of XD

Hiyori being trashed by Hichigo doesn't prove her weak... asuming that Hichigo is maximum power Ichigo than anybody would get owned when it's 1vs1, Byakuya last longer cause Hichigo was fighting with him at long rage at first and did a little trash talking XD

if Espada are main force of this story (and we don't know how many vastorade will change into arrancars) than Shunsui without shikai or bankai being weaker than not realesed Espada isn'ta suprise, but I think that Chad's RaG power isn't any stronger than it was in SS, he's just faster and have stronger atack...
and we still don't know why Noitora had his sword in shikai like form :P

[Hisago]

I heard a rumor that chapter 263 is also being released this week. Is that true?

[WarpObscura]

An awesome plot twist, whoo. When was the last time Kubo Tite pulled one of similar quality? Isshin being a shinigami?

[sabret00the]

I think it'd be a big loss for the whole series if Chad doesn't prevail through this battle.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

I think it'd be a big loss for the whole series if Chad doesn't prevail through this battle.

true, but i would think if he did win super easy that Bleach would turn into a dbz plotted thing... beat up, training and kick villain butt.. be beat up by someone new again.. train some more and kick villain butt 2# ...

but seriously yhr least few pages of this chapter made me go O.O woooth! .. this is going to be hard for Chad and for Rukia

[fict_ticious]

Heh, "nobody dies in Bleach (except for that one guy)"

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by hdx514

didn't i tell you espada NOT cannon fodder privalons will be the main enemies? it's obvious. and mind telling me how you arrived at the conclusion that a kubo who follows S.S. trend would have renji perform better?

I think you misunderstood me here. I meant Renji's fight will be more impressive than Chad's. He's gonna lose if he faces an Espada, but he's not going to be defeated in one second like Chad was. Renji's fight with Byakuya in S.S. was much more impressive then Chad's fight with Shunsui even though Bya pretty much defeated him without getting a scratch. And of course, Ishida managed to manage squeeze a win through an unforseen power-up but he's already demonstrated one new move already, I don't know what the chances of him pulling out another huge powerup to win are this time.

doesn't matter when or where, she'll get trashed whenever and wherever

Rukia and Orihime both seem to be stuck somewhere between fighter and damsel-in-distress. And though Rukia is more a fighter than Orihime, she's still a "princess" character and usually not subject to being sliced to bloody ribbons like the others. That's why I believe even though she is facing one right now, she won't be made to fight the Espada 1-on-1. If she does, she'll probably get knocked out quickly with relatively little damage and captured, not trashed.

the vaizards are S.S. outlaws, they hate shinigamis, first and foremost. they embraced hollow powers. if aizen's proud army (aimed at the royal family/royal guards) < vaizards, then the vaizards would have wipe out the gotei 13 like ants. they wouldn't have bothered with all these years of underground operations. espadas = full vaizard ichigo prey, ichigo =/= everyone else. see how hichigo trashes vaizard hiyori like nothing?

First, I don't remember Aizen ever saying that the Espada were intended to fight the Royal Guards. And while they don't seem to care for shinigamis, there's no evidence that the vaizard would seek the destruction of the Gotei 13, especially if SS isn't actively hunting for them right now. They seem neutral, not particularly agresssive and act more like a group of punk kids than sworn eneimes of SS. At worst, their relationship with shingami is like Ishida's, where they are willing to ally with certain shinigami if there is need for it but consider most of them enemies. Who knows though, maybe their whole reason behind trying to recruit Ichigo is to finally tip the scales of power with the Gotei 13.

I also note that you are quick to bring up Hichigo overpowering Hiyori, but fail to mention vaizard Shinji fighting evenly with Grimmjow and even forcing him to release. In any case, unless you think that Ichigo is going single-handedly defeat every espada alone, then he will need allies. And since we seem to agree that his current team isn't strong enough to handle this, that leaves mainly the SS taicho( I classify Isshin and Urahara within this group) and vaizard. The vaizard have been featured much more frequently as of late than the taicho though.

you just answer your own question. and it doesn't matter if it's no.1 or no.10 espada, point is, none of them can take vaizard ichigo's getsuga without a scratch unreleased or cut through vaizard ichig's defense like butter.

And you base this purely on the fact that he was able to cut no. 6?

Originally Posted by Wolocik

and if Urahara came and healed up Kaien and Kaien went to HM just to pretend to be hollow/arrancar so he Urahara could have a spy and back stab Aizen when possible, than Kaien would ask Rukia to leave and wait, and she'd refuse :P

I don't think one can fake being a hollow unless you can fake having a hole through your chest. Also, their reiatsu is different from a shinigami's, Aizen couldn't be fooled so easily. If Kaien went to HM, he would have to go as a hollow and be turned into an arrancar to be an Espada, since all Espada were created with Hyougoku.

[Zerokule]

Aizen could have had Kaien under his wing the entire time. He does have a soul cutter that causes illusions. My jaw did drop when I saw Kaiens face tho, great way to build some suspense!

[NoSanninWa]

Maybe Kaien just has a really common face...

[Lendial]

laziness on kubo's part, ichigo , kaien, mister 69 , and perhaps unknown character in chpt 267!

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Maybe Kaien just has a really common face...

bwuhahahah XD yeah, that's why Ganjiu looks so much like his older brother XD

[gibits]

How does Kaien not have a mask? He was wearing it to avoid the sun. Sure it didn't look all that much like a hollow mask but having another mask under a mask seems a bit silly.

Kaien died under some pretty tragic conditions and its not that far fetched that he would become a hollow, although if he knew that Aizen was the one that created the hollow that killed his wife he might not be serving under him. Do you get your memories back when you take off your mask?

[Zu Ra]

What convo took place between Ulqi and Orihime must be something to do with Chad ? . Inoue isnt the violent types to actual resort to a smack . Did he utter the taboo words " Prettier than Thou ? "

[maiju]

A translation of the Orihime/Ulquiorra conversation from Ju-Ni's site:

Spoiler:

Page 6:

Ulquiorra: I’m coming in.


Page 7:

Ulquiorra: You somehow managed to notice.

Ulquiorra: It would seem that idiot Noitora got a bit hasty. Even though he received orders to wait in his own palace…

Orihime: Sado-kun’s not dead.


Page 8:

Orihime: He’s not dead.

Ulquiorra: Enter.

Ulquiorra: It’s time for your food.

Ulquiorra: Eat.

Orihime: I don’t need it.


Page 9:

Ulquiorra: It is also your job to keep yourself alive until Aizen-sama calls for you.

Ulquiorra: Eat.

Ulquiorra: Shall I forcibly shove it down your throat for you?

Ulquiorra: Or would you rather I strap you down and give you an IV (**intravenously give her nutrients)?

Orihime: Sado-kun is not dead…

Ulquiorra: You’re too persistent. It doesn’t matter either way…

Ulquiorra: What would you have me say to you?

Ulquiorra: Something akin to, “Don’t worry, he must be alive”?


Page 10:

Ulquiorra: Ridiculous. I’m not here to “comfort” you.

Ulquiorra: I don’t understand…why do you care so much if they’re alive or dead?

Ulquiorra: Either way, in a short time your friends will all be wiped out.

Ulquiorra: What is there to say if one happens to go a bit more quickly?


Page 11:

Ulquiorra: They must’ve been able to predict that this would happen from the start.

Orihime: Stop it...

Ulquiorra: If they weren’t able to then the responsibility for it lies in their own foolishness.

Ulquiorra: Laughing it off saying that they were just a bunch of fools would suffice.

Ulquiorra: So why can’t you do that?

Ulqiuorra: Were it me…I would be angry at ignorance of those who would enter Hueco Mundo without even testing their own power.


Page 12 (no text, just a SLAP)


Page 13:

Ulquiorra: I will come again in one hour.

Ulquiorra: If you haven’t eaten by then…I’ll tie you down and grind that food down your throat. Be prepared for that.

[Tigryn]

And a small continuation of maiju's post:

Page 18:

Weirdo: Sorry. For the longest time now…I haven’t been good with that whole “sun’s light” thing.

Weirdo: The sun won’t reach inside this palace.

Weirdo: I’ll just remove my mask and greet you.

Weirdo: My name is…A’roniro


Page 19:

Weirdo Arrancar: Noveno Espada…A’roniro Alulueri

Sidetext: That face....one of both nostalgia and regret—“Kaien”!!

So he's being nice (for now, at least) to Rukia, and the sidetext actually says "Kaien." Next chapter should be interesting, to say the least.