AnimeSuki Forums

darkwave · 2004-02-08, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Stilo

You'll get a fortune cookie telling you "Go back further dammit"

Sorry but I dont believe in fortune cookies.

If I have to watch an older Anime that those movies, then I need to be sitting a mile away. My eyes are sensitive to old anime.

madg · 2004-02-08, 17:34

I think that anime is anime, whether old or new. Most of what I consider old are what other people refer to 'mid 1980s' anime, since it is my childhood (hence old

). I will be thinking of Japanese anime in this reply, since I assume this is the predominant type in this forum.

Both groups of anime (old & new) have their roots in Japan and both types of anime have the basic traits that make them anime, such as the unique style of drawing and animation. Of course, just like anything in entertainment, anime has evolved over the years due to popularity and, just like most things that grow, it has gotten better. I myself am a fan of both types of anime. I grew up with things like Saint Seiya, Ronin Warriors, Captain Harlock, Dragonball and Captain Future, to name a few. I still remenisce those series and I still enjoy the few that I have found again, but more because of nostalgia. I mean I can understand why people who would be introduced to these old anime's for the first time would not be as impressed. It is the same thing in computer gaming, if you would allow me to make the analogy. I think things like Police Quest were some of the best games and I would still play them to remind me of those days. Again though, it is more out of nostalgia that I would do that and I'm sure that any of today's young gamers would not even look at those dated EGA graphics or even be tempted at trying to understand how to play those games. And I won't blame them. Because, I would not be tempted to try my hands on games that came before my time either (eg. Commodore 64). And so, going back to anime, I understand why people might not enjoy old anime. I mean let's face it, Astro Boy looks kinda dated next to most of today's anime ... however, it had its moments just like everything else that came after (or before) it and will always be praised as one of the grand-daddies of today's anime. Of course there are probably old-school people who do not like old anime anymore and there are also probably some of the younger crowd who do appreciate older anime. I'm not categorising older crowd from younger crowd, I'm generalising (very dangerous thing to do I know).

So, to sum up. I am a fan of both old & new anime. I think things improve and so anime has evolved for the better, but it did start somewhere and, even if some of us are not interested in watching old anime, it should at least be recognised as the root of anime. Apart from maybe repeating a lot of what other people said, I think I introduced the idea that the people that do like old anime do because they feel nostalgic rather than because they think it is better than newer anime. In one sentence, I'd say that we shouldn't compare old and new anime since they are of the same family; just because the one has got more rinkles than the other doesn't mean that it doesn't have a good story to tell

.

Now just to avoid any flaming, just wanna say that I probably have made some mistakes in my reply, so if you do point them out, do so graciously

.

Tboz · 2004-02-08, 18:13

Nostalgia, something I can identify with. Used to wonder why my mom and dad listens to oldies only. Everytime I recommend new songs to them, they will give comments like its no good, the lyrics are rubbish... the artists can't sing etc. Now that I'm older, I have the same feelings for older animes, though not so strong that I rule out new release totally.

In my eyes, nothing beats the old classics, the pioneers, or the first movers, innovators whatever you call them. Like madg said, I grew up with all these animes. They were the first that make me feel in awe watching a barrage of missiles launched from a Valkyrie, the first to have me fall in love with an anime girl. Those are precious first-time experience that new animes can't give.

Looking closer, new animes are mostly old animes given a fresh new look. Hardly do I see any ground-breaking, genre-defining animes these days. Well, maybe there are if I wasn't looking hard enough or perhaps half-breeds with a mix of old and new ideas. But anyway, watching them, I feel that I have watched them before. I might have enjoyed them, but I don't get the same sensational feeling those old anime gave me.

I guess this topic will always stay when people are being introduced to anime for the first time. First time experience is always the most impressional, just like first love is most unforgettable. Ten years down the road, I bet there will still be people debating over new and old animes. Another question would be... which is the golden age for Japanese animation.

madg · 2004-02-09, 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tboz

Looking closer, new animes are mostly old animes given a fresh new look. Hardly do I see any ground-breaking, genre-defining animes these days. Well, maybe there are if I wasn't looking hard enough or perhaps half-breeds with a mix of old and new ideas. But anyway, watching them, I feel that I have watched them before. I might have enjoyed them, but I don't get the same sensational feeling those old anime gave me.

I wouldn't necessarily say there hasn't been any ground-breaking advances in anime. There are a few anime's, even if not numerous, which are pioneers on their own. For example Narutaru, which I haven't seen, but from what I've heard about it, it seems to be a lil different from the rest. Another point would be that if not ground-breaking, some of the new anime has improved on the existing formula, and hopefully will continue to do so in the future. Just think that today's Full Metal Alchemist for a newcomer will be like Ronin Warriors or Voltron was for us back then

.

Biohazard · 2004-02-09, 06:16

I dont care too much about quality, special effects and stuff as long as the story is fine.

Of course i'm not saying that i'm not like "wow" if i see an extra out of the ordinary good effect, its just that i prior things like story or character development.

But i gotta admid that i sometimes dislike the drawing style of older aime... for example Ms80th Gundam, i dunno, i just found it horrible when i saw it for the first time...

But as said i watch more for story, i watched and really enjoyed Ranma 1/2 as 38mb real media files, so... ^^

i dont care about visuals, if story and char development are good ^^

Evan · 2004-02-09, 07:25

well,basically there is not much different as to which one is better,to me,old and new anime have their own special qualitys

kj1980 · 2004-02-09, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biohazard

But i gotta admid that i sometimes dislike the drawing style of older aime... for example Ms80th Gundam, i dunno, i just found it horrible when i saw it for the first time...

"Mobile Suit Gundam MS08th Team" tends to be fairly recent (1996).

Perhaps mistaken with "Mobile Suit Gundam 0080 War in The Pocket?" - that I will understand as there are splits between those who like Mikimoto Haruhiko's art style, and those who don't.

Dark Schneider · 2004-02-10, 15:06

I watch mostly old anime one of the ones i watch is SDF MACROSS

babbito2k · 2004-02-10, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by babbito2k

The topic is: Please give your thoughts on the relative qualities of anime made before and after 1995/10/04.

What I mean by "qualities" is:
Character design
Visual style
Animation
Sound
Music
Plot
Story
Scenes
Dialogue
Characterization

bluemist · 2004-02-11, 01:05

Character design
Visual style
Animation
Sound
Music

It's rather obvious that new anime in general would win in the above qualities. As technology makes it easier for animators to make animation, we should expect to see better visuals and sound in anime.

Plot
Story
Scenes
Dialogue
Characterization

But when it comes to these things the topic becomes rather subjective and opinionated. There are good ones in the new and also good ones in the old, we could never completely discern or differentiate both.

But at least we can compare through specifics.

roguenoir · 2004-02-11, 02:41

For me:

New = 2000 - present
Old = 1995 - 2000
Never Watched Any = pre-1995 (with a few exceptions)

I'm somewhat of a newcomer to anime and the vast majority of all series I've watched are from after 2000 and the only notable ones before that are Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop. What are some of the distinct differences between more current anime and those from before 95'?

babbito2k · 2004-02-11, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by roguenoir

...What are some of the distinct differences between more current anime and those from before 95'?

There is a decent selection of titles available on AnimeSuki, so feel free to see for yourself. Some people have already discussed this as it is the topic of this thread.

babbito2k · 2004-02-11, 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemist

Character design
Visual style
Animation
Sound
Music

It's rather obvious that new anime in general would win in the above qualities. As technology makes it easier for animators to make animation, we should expect to see better visuals and sound in anime.

I am not convinced that this is obvious. Do you find computer graphics to be an improvement in visual style or animation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemist

Plot
Story
Scenes
Dialogue
Characterization

But when it comes to these things the topic becomes rather subjective and opinionated. There are good ones in the new and also good ones in the old, we could never completely discern or differentiate both.

But at least we can compare through specifics.

By all means.

bluemist · 2004-02-11, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by babbito2k

I am not convinced that this is obvious. Do you find computer graphics to be an improvement in visual style or animation?

It is an improvement for me, because of a simple reason: It just looks better.

Although some anime do not mix CG and classic cel animation very well, I think they are improving day-by-day. From the weird mix of cel and CG in Initial D, we now get to see better mixes like those in Last Exile. Take note the two examples are still covered as 'new anime' (year 1995+), so I think there is still a need for improvement because the medium style is still new.

While the old anime history dates up from the 60's up to the early 90's. The animation style is very refined. For over 35 years animators are relying on the same format of cel animation (please correct me if I'm wrong, not too sure about it) to do their anime. And because of this a steady slew of quality is established. For one, up to now I think the Akira movie is still visually appealing.

But the difference for me is the general 'look' of the anime as time passes. The backgrounds get more detail, and the character designs get more style. There seems to be more animation frames per second, and the transition between these frames are more smooth. With the advent of more advanced visual (DVD, HDTV) and aural (Stereo, Surround Sound) media, animators are determined to comply with new standards in order to compete. Because of these reasons I think new anime has improved over the old anime in terms of physical creation and technicality.

Or maybe it's purely my opinion.

Radd · 2004-02-13, 11:52

I have to sincerely disagree on a couple of aspects of Bluemist's posts. While it's true that technology is advancing all the time (I'd like to reiterate that ALL the time, not just recently), new ways to cut corners are also being added, and new technology can remain expensive for long periods of time making it difficult for studios to take advantage of it.

Some disadvantages to recent technological innovations:

Digital colouring enables artists to choose from any colours they could possibly want, unfortunately a good number of animation colourits seem to have very poor colour sense and often pick the brightest, most eye gouging colours they can. Better recording and encoding techniques means we see these horribly oversaturated colours in all their painful glory.

Lots of newer shows are abusing CG like crazy. To say that CG looks better simply because it's CG is like saying markers look better than paints, even if the markers are weilded by a blind 4 year old with torrets syndrome and the paints are used by Michelangelo. There is a lot of downright crappy CG out there. There has been for quite some time. I for one don't understand why people love it so much. Speaking as an animator, even. When I graduated from art school my demo reel consisted of about two and a half minutes of lovingly crafted 2D animation that I'd worked on for the better part of my time in art school. Lots of detail in the drawings, lots of motion and secondary motion, aiming for Disney quality, Then there was 50 seconds of crappy CG that had taken me about an hour to do. The textures, the models, the animation, all of it crap. Guess what most people thought was the best part?

Now, some other things. Character design. Visual style. How the hell does technology improve character design? It doesn't. It' can't. Visual style and character design rests with the creativity of the character designer and the director. Technology can actually hinder character design, in that most CG animation studios only hire CG people, and CG people are often much more technical than creative so you get some really lame, simple character designs because technology can't make an uncreative person into a creative person. Yoshitaka Amano, Leiji Matsumoto, Haruhiko Mikimoto, these people have STYLE. Their old stuff oozed style, their newer stuff is chok full of style. Their characters stick out. They're very memorable. Monkey Punch! Who can look at a drawing done in Monkey Punch's style and not get the Lupin III theme playing in their head?

I go back to my previous argument that there is tons of crap in every generation, and a few gleaming jems. Most new anime is crap just like most old anime was crap. Macross Zero's character designs are very bland and forgettable. Very well animated, and the CG is very well done as far as CG goes, but the characters just do not stand out in my mind. The same goes for Last Exile. LE at least had some interesting designs, but the style in which they were drawn was very bland. There's been a lot of shows, recently, with that same bland style. Like 80's anime had the generic 'big eyes, small mouth' look, most recent anime has a very bland, forgettable look to it. There's exceptions, yes. The few shining gems, but technology has nothing to do with it. Never has, never will.

Music! New technology does not mean better music. Macross Zero, once again, the music is very forgettable. There's a couple songs I kinda like, but nothing compared to Lynn Minmei's music, or even Sharon Apple's or Fire Bombers! I'd say Zero has the most forgettable music out of any Macross series yet, and it's the newest one. It's my opinion that Macross as a franchise has had some of the best music in all of anime, all the way back to the original tv series. Most of that music still stands up to the latest J-pop put out in recent years. Once again, technology is no replacement for talent, and talent knows no age.

Sound? That's about the only one I do agree with you on. Sound has improved, it has gotten better. Speakers, and audio recording techniques are getting better, so sound quality is naturally improving.

While I don't agree that technology has made designs and art styles any better, I will say this. Technology has given is crisper, cleaner imagery. Cleaner, crisper crap is still crap. I'd rather have a dusty bar of gold than a freshly polished turd any day of the week. Then again, that's why remasters are so popular these days. I have the entire SDF Macross tv series on DVD, and the visual quality is beautiful. Of course, it was a low budget series so that shows in the animation. On the other hand, I have the 1984 Macross movie on DVD, and it blows many aspects of Macross Zero's visuals right out of the water, though M0 does beat it in some other aspects.

Newer does not mean better looking. Better technology does not always mean better looking. Sure, if some sparkling gem was made today, it's excellent character designs and visual style could be presented in a much more appealing way than a show made 20 years ago, but how often does a gem like that come along? Not all that often. When it does, it's usually a sequel/prequel, like Macross Zero or the new Captain Herlock OVA.

Of course there are shows that aren't sequels that stand out as well. Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion, for example. Both might harken back to older anime, but they stand tall on their own two feet as well.

_murasaki_ · 2004-02-13, 13:31

I prefer older anime better than new ones.
I don't know why but I just do.

Maybe because it's a classic and stuff like that apeal to me.
Like Mahou Shoujo and Tale of Genji.

It doesn't matter what it looks like if the plot is good.

xxanimefan4_ever · 2007-04-03, 19:19

Old I guess, there's good/bad new ones and good/bad old ones... but I hear of lots of new ones that look really nice but suck in plot/characters that lots of people watch for some reason VS. watching something with animation that may be out-dated but better plot/characters.

I don't blame people steering clearing of 80's animes cause the animation is so out-dated compared to new ones but 90s animation is good, i think it's ridiculous of someone saying they only watch 2000 + animes

I saw 90s, 80s anime on TV (not in the US) before moving to the US, when I first came over to US there's no anime on TV of course except like Pokemon. So after a couple years wanted to watch anime and downloading and all that so I chcked out love hina............

It was the worst, I heard it's so funny, romantic? it was so dumb and it wasn't funny, and it is unbelievably unoriginal and cliche and I just wanted to kill all the characters. I don't even know how to describe it but it just reminded me of lots of shows i liked a lot better... somehow took everything that's like cliche or whatever and just made it so many times worse. Most aggravating anime, almost made me think all new ones were like that but thank god they're not. it just gave me a horrible impression after not watching anime cuople years and then finally seeing something and ended up being one of the worst...

I guess the thing with the new ones is so many more people see them and some get so overrated

1995 isn't old........I think the oldest anime I've seen is one from 1973, Kereko dametan or something which is like a sadistic, sad, depressing anime about this frog who gets beat up becasue he's poor or something, anime aimed at kids anyhow and I watched as a kid.

One of my favorite oldies is Dash! Kappei - one of the funniest animes I've had the chance to see

1981 !!

Newprimus · 2007-04-03, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Stilo

The first series that really got me into anime was Love Hina. The general opinion of seasoned anime reviewers is that the series brings nothing new. The reason it was such a succes was the way all factors like comedy, plot and story were mixed. Ken Akamatsu, creator of Love Hina, is often accused of "stealing" the best bits from other series and blending all of these parts into his own series. When I finished the series I wanted to see more series like Love Hina and I wanted to see for my self if those reviewers were right. And off I went.

A lot of reviewers do say that, and I, like many people I'm sure, have met those kinds of opinions throughout the internet, and maybe in real life.

The vast, vast majority of these reviewers are also probably not artists or writers themselves. When you study art or writing, and/or learn underneath someone who actually does some kind of art, etc for a living, one fact becomes known.

All artists are influenced by previous works and artists. It's inevitable. These artists then build upon these past influences and create something that is their own, but a good and knowledgeable eye can see those things that have shaped that artist's work and thoughts within their art, sort of like reading one's footprints. It can be interesting to see what works and experiences shaped that artist into what he is today.

What these reviewers tend to, or rather almost always do, is to look at this fact in a negative light. Instead of seeing it as an artist building upon the influences of his predecessors, they see it as the artist stealing the ideas of his predecessors. If artists or writers were not allowed to be influenced by their predecessors.... well, the world would not be as vibrant and rich in art and literature as it is now.

And I can't speak for everyone, but I believe that if you tell an artist or a writer how much their work inspired you or influenced your own, I think they would take that very proudly, rather than as an insult.

wingdarkness · 2007-04-03, 19:50

I like cell movement over animation some times..I just think there's a higher expressionism in it (Like Gundam SEED fights verses GSD fights as an example of how today's animation can still be expresssive)...Ever since the CG rave took over about 9, 10 years ago, while I still have many favorites it makes a series easier and sometimes much less creative in nature...

Old hand-drawn anime has a grit, and an artistic expressive quality that new anime (even with all it's visual delight) just can't match (The obvious reason for this is because when you don't have a relatively easy way of producing something you have to use expressionism to compensate) ...I'll take Yu Yu Hakusho's grit over Scryed's CG...I'll take His and Her circumstances artistic quality over some random good looking haremy show drawn in 2007...Don't get me wrong, series with incredible budgets for animation like the Animatrix or Afro Samurai are great and I do love many series with great animation, but stuff like Fist of the North Star, Lupin the 3rd, Gatchaman, Golgo 13, Zeta Gundam (Which looks as good hand-drawn as half the stuff out there) have an unexplainable quality that new $hit just doesn't have as much (Not that the best of the best new $hit isn't awesome)...

-Kh- · 2007-04-03, 19:51

I've been watching Anime my whole life, somehow when I was a kid I'd rather watch something like Macross, Mazinger, Mach Go Go, Voltron and later on, some other early 90s (in America, Latin American TV to be more precise) animes, instead of your typical shows on Cartoon Network back in the day for example.

After knowing more what Anime was, I got very into it and watched many more series from the 80s, 90s and a few from the late 70s. I really enjoyed them and they were great to watch at that age.

Then the internet showed up, and it opened a door that allowed me to have an easier and wider access to it, so i could watch many more shows and up to date.

**My apologies for the long and off-topic intro to my post.

But to the point.. having watched a great diversity of series from both before and after Evangelion, i have to say that the Anime has grown up.

I loved (and love) the pre-95 series, although they aren't as complex or deep as today's series, but they were very fun and had lots of emotion. But back then you wouldn't find many series (if at all) like Code Geass, Eureka 7, Nana, etc.

I feel that the anime has grown up along with its viewer, so there aren't only animes that appeal (targeted) to kids or young teens, but aswell to adults.

A lot of today's animes are very deep, with well developed plots and good scripts, before there was too, but standars have risen, and a more mature approach has been given.

Leaving aside the graphic aspect, since the improvement is mostly technologic (CG and HDTV sets) than just artistic, the literary aspect either from a Manga work, or from an original script/story on average they seem to me better now.

2007-04-03, 19:19	Link #37
xxanimefan4_ever Sorri++ Join Date: Apr 2006	Old I guess, there's good/bad new ones and good/bad old ones... but I hear of lots of new ones that look really nice but suck in plot/characters that lots of people watch for some reason VS. watching something with animation that may be out-dated but better plot/characters. I don't blame people steering clearing of 80's animes cause the animation is so out-dated compared to new ones but 90s animation is good, i think it's ridiculous of someone saying they only watch 2000 + animes I saw 90s, 80s anime on TV (not in the US) before moving to the US, when I first came over to US there's no anime on TV of course except like Pokemon. So after a couple years wanted to watch anime and downloading and all that so I chcked out love hina............ It was the worst, I heard it's so funny, romantic? it was so dumb and it wasn't funny, and it is unbelievably unoriginal and cliche and I just wanted to kill all the characters. I don't even know how to describe it but it just reminded me of lots of shows i liked a lot better... somehow took everything that's like cliche or whatever and just made it so many times worse. Most aggravating anime, almost made me think all new ones were like that but thank god they're not. it just gave me a horrible impression after not watching anime cuople years and then finally seeing something and ended up being one of the worst... I guess the thing with the new ones is so many more people see them and some get so overrated 1995 isn't old........I think the oldest anime I've seen is one from 1973, Kereko dametan or something which is like a sadistic, sad, depressing anime about this frog who gets beat up becasue he's poor or something, anime aimed at kids anyhow and I watched as a kid. One of my favorite oldies is Dash! Kappei - one of the funniest animes I've had the chance to see 1981 !! __________________ <3 Last edited by xxanimefan4_ever; 2007-04-06 at 08:53.

2007-04-03, 19:50	Link #39
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	I like cell movement over animation some times..I just think there's a higher expressionism in it (Like Gundam SEED fights verses GSD fights as an example of how today's animation can still be expresssive)...Ever since the CG rave took over about 9, 10 years ago, while I still have many favorites it makes a series easier and sometimes much less creative in nature... Old hand-drawn anime has a grit, and an artistic expressive quality that new anime (even with all it's visual delight) just can't match (The obvious reason for this is because when you don't have a relatively easy way of producing something you have to use expressionism to compensate) ...I'll take Yu Yu Hakusho's grit over Scryed's CG...I'll take His and Her circumstances artistic quality over some random good looking haremy show drawn in 2007...Don't get me wrong, series with incredible budgets for animation like the Animatrix or Afro Samurai are great and I do love many series with great animation, but stuff like Fist of the North Star, Lupin the 3rd, Gatchaman, Golgo 13, Zeta Gundam (Which looks as good hand-drawn as half the stuff out there) have an unexplainable quality that new $hit just doesn't have as much (Not that the best of the best new $hit isn't awesome)... __________________ Fly since ↔...

2004-02-08, 17:34	Link #22
madg Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: South Africa Age: 44	I think that anime is anime, whether old or new. Most of what I consider old are what other people refer to 'mid 1980s' anime, since it is my childhood (hence old ). I will be thinking of Japanese anime in this reply, since I assume this is the predominant type in this forum. Both groups of anime (old & new) have their roots in Japan and both types of anime have the basic traits that make them anime, such as the unique style of drawing and animation. Of course, just like anything in entertainment, anime has evolved over the years due to popularity and, just like most things that grow, it has gotten better. I myself am a fan of both types of anime. I grew up with things like Saint Seiya, Ronin Warriors, Captain Harlock, Dragonball and Captain Future, to name a few. I still remenisce those series and I still enjoy the few that I have found again, but more because of nostalgia. I mean I can understand why people who would be introduced to these old anime's for the first time would not be as impressed. It is the same thing in computer gaming, if you would allow me to make the analogy. I think things like Police Quest were some of the best games and I would still play them to remind me of those days. Again though, it is more out of nostalgia that I would do that and I'm sure that any of today's young gamers would not even look at those dated EGA graphics or even be tempted at trying to understand how to play those games. And I won't blame them. Because, I would not be tempted to try my hands on games that came before my time either (eg. Commodore 64). And so, going back to anime, I understand why people might not enjoy old anime. I mean let's face it, Astro Boy looks kinda dated next to most of today's anime ... however, it had its moments just like everything else that came after (or before) it and will always be praised as one of the grand-daddies of today's anime. Of course there are probably old-school people who do not like old anime anymore and there are also probably some of the younger crowd who do appreciate older anime. I'm not categorising older crowd from younger crowd, I'm generalising (very dangerous thing to do I know). So, to sum up. I am a fan of both old & new anime. I think things improve and so anime has evolved for the better, but it did start somewhere and, even if some of us are not interested in watching old anime, it should at least be recognised as the root of anime. Apart from maybe repeating a lot of what other people said, I think I introduced the idea that the people that do like old anime do because they feel nostalgic rather than because they think it is better than newer anime. In one sentence, I'd say that we shouldn't compare old and new anime since they are of the same family; just because the one has got more rinkles than the other doesn't mean that it doesn't have a good story to tell . Now just to avoid any flaming, just wanna say that I probably have made some mistakes in my reply, so if you do point them out, do so graciously .

2004-02-08, 18:13	Link #23
Tboz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Nostalgia, something I can identify with. Used to wonder why my mom and dad listens to oldies only. Everytime I recommend new songs to them, they will give comments like its no good, the lyrics are rubbish... the artists can't sing etc. Now that I'm older, I have the same feelings for older animes, though not so strong that I rule out new release totally. In my eyes, nothing beats the old classics, the pioneers, or the first movers, innovators whatever you call them. Like madg said, I grew up with all these animes. They were the first that make me feel in awe watching a barrage of missiles launched from a Valkyrie, the first to have me fall in love with an anime girl. Those are precious first-time experience that new animes can't give. Looking closer, new animes are mostly old animes given a fresh new look. Hardly do I see any ground-breaking, genre-defining animes these days. Well, maybe there are if I wasn't looking hard enough or perhaps half-breeds with a mix of old and new ideas. But anyway, watching them, I feel that I have watched them before. I might have enjoyed them, but I don't get the same sensational feeling those old anime gave me. I guess this topic will always stay when people are being introduced to anime for the first time. First time experience is always the most impressional, just like first love is most unforgettable. Ten years down the road, I bet there will still be people debating over new and old animes. Another question would be... which is the golden age for Japanese animation.

2004-02-09, 06:16	Link #25
Biohazard -kanashii~desu- Join Date: May 2003 Location: Germany Age: 38	I dont care too much about quality, special effects and stuff as long as the story is fine. Of course i'm not saying that i'm not like "wow" if i see an extra out of the ordinary good effect, its just that i prior things like story or character development. But i gotta admid that i sometimes dislike the drawing style of older aime... for example Ms80th Gundam, i dunno, i just found it horrible when i saw it for the first time... But as said i watch more for story, i watched and really enjoyed Ranma 1/2 as 38mb real media files, so... ^^ i dont care about visuals, if story and char development are good ^^

2004-02-09, 07:25	Link #26
Evan 天使我爱你 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: With My Hime Natsuki-sama	well,basically there is not much different as to which one is better,to me,old and new anime have their own special qualitys

2004-02-10, 15:06	Link #28
Dark Schneider Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Calgary Age: 43	I watch mostly old anime one of the ones i watch is SDF MACROSS

2004-02-11, 01:05	Link #30
bluemist i am the mist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Japan	Character design Visual style Animation Sound Music It's rather obvious that new anime in general would win in the above qualities. As technology makes it easier for animators to make animation, we should expect to see better visuals and sound in anime. Plot Story Scenes Dialogue Characterization But when it comes to these things the topic becomes rather subjective and opinionated. There are good ones in the new and also good ones in the old, we could never completely discern or differentiate both. But at least we can compare through specifics.

2004-02-11, 02:41	Link #31
roguenoir Rogue Member Join Date: Feb 2004	For me: New = 2000 - present Old = 1995 - 2000 Never Watched Any = pre-1995 (with a few exceptions) I'm somewhat of a newcomer to anime and the vast majority of all series I've watched are from after 2000 and the only notable ones before that are Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop. What are some of the distinct differences between more current anime and those from before 95'?

2004-02-13, 11:52	Link #35
Radd Just Married, Oct. 28th! Join Date: May 2003 Age: 45	I have to sincerely disagree on a couple of aspects of Bluemist's posts. While it's true that technology is advancing all the time (I'd like to reiterate that ALL the time, not just recently), new ways to cut corners are also being added, and new technology can remain expensive for long periods of time making it difficult for studios to take advantage of it. Some disadvantages to recent technological innovations: Digital colouring enables artists to choose from any colours they could possibly want, unfortunately a good number of animation colourits seem to have very poor colour sense and often pick the brightest, most eye gouging colours they can. Better recording and encoding techniques means we see these horribly oversaturated colours in all their painful glory. Lots of newer shows are abusing CG like crazy. To say that CG looks better simply because it's CG is like saying markers look better than paints, even if the markers are weilded by a blind 4 year old with torrets syndrome and the paints are used by Michelangelo. There is a lot of downright crappy CG out there. There has been for quite some time. I for one don't understand why people love it so much. Speaking as an animator, even. When I graduated from art school my demo reel consisted of about two and a half minutes of lovingly crafted 2D animation that I'd worked on for the better part of my time in art school. Lots of detail in the drawings, lots of motion and secondary motion, aiming for Disney quality, Then there was 50 seconds of crappy CG that had taken me about an hour to do. The textures, the models, the animation, all of it crap. Guess what most people thought was the best part? Now, some other things. Character design. Visual style. How the hell does technology improve character design? It doesn't. It' can't. Visual style and character design rests with the creativity of the character designer and the director. Technology can actually hinder character design, in that most CG animation studios only hire CG people, and CG people are often much more technical than creative so you get some really lame, simple character designs because technology can't make an uncreative person into a creative person. Yoshitaka Amano, Leiji Matsumoto, Haruhiko Mikimoto, these people have STYLE. Their old stuff oozed style, their newer stuff is chok full of style. Their characters stick out. They're very memorable. Monkey Punch! Who can look at a drawing done in Monkey Punch's style and not get the Lupin III theme playing in their head? I go back to my previous argument that there is tons of crap in every generation, and a few gleaming jems. Most new anime is crap just like most old anime was crap. Macross Zero's character designs are very bland and forgettable. Very well animated, and the CG is very well done as far as CG goes, but the characters just do not stand out in my mind. The same goes for Last Exile. LE at least had some interesting designs, but the style in which they were drawn was very bland. There's been a lot of shows, recently, with that same bland style. Like 80's anime had the generic 'big eyes, small mouth' look, most recent anime has a very bland, forgettable look to it. There's exceptions, yes. The few shining gems, but technology has nothing to do with it. Never has, never will. Music! New technology does not mean better music. Macross Zero, once again, the music is very forgettable. There's a couple songs I kinda like, but nothing compared to Lynn Minmei's music, or even Sharon Apple's or Fire Bombers! I'd say Zero has the most forgettable music out of any Macross series yet, and it's the newest one. It's my opinion that Macross as a franchise has had some of the best music in all of anime, all the way back to the original tv series. Most of that music still stands up to the latest J-pop put out in recent years. Once again, technology is no replacement for talent, and talent knows no age. Sound? That's about the only one I do agree with you on. Sound has improved, it has gotten better. Speakers, and audio recording techniques are getting better, so sound quality is naturally improving. While I don't agree that technology has made designs and art styles any better, I will say this. Technology has given is crisper, cleaner imagery. Cleaner, crisper crap is still crap. I'd rather have a dusty bar of gold than a freshly polished turd any day of the week. Then again, that's why remasters are so popular these days. I have the entire SDF Macross tv series on DVD, and the visual quality is beautiful. Of course, it was a low budget series so that shows in the animation. On the other hand, I have the 1984 Macross movie on DVD, and it blows many aspects of Macross Zero's visuals right out of the water, though M0 does beat it in some other aspects. Newer does not mean better looking. Better technology does not always mean better looking. Sure, if some sparkling gem was made today, it's excellent character designs and visual style could be presented in a much more appealing way than a show made 20 years ago, but how often does a gem like that come along? Not all that often. When it does, it's usually a sequel/prequel, like Macross Zero or the new Captain Herlock OVA. Of course there are shows that aren't sequels that stand out as well. Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion, for example. Both might harken back to older anime, but they stand tall on their own two feet as well.

2004-02-13, 13:31	Link #36
_murasaki_ 喜多建介 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Techno-Town Age: 34	I prefer older anime better than new ones. I don't know why but I just do. Maybe because it's a classic and stuff like that apeal to me. Like Mahou Shoujo and Tale of Genji. It doesn't matter what it looks like if the plot is good.

2007-04-03, 19:51	Link #40
-Kh- ポルカ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Age: 42	I've been watching Anime my whole life, somehow when I was a kid I'd rather watch something like Macross, Mazinger, Mach Go Go, Voltron and later on, some other early 90s (in America, Latin American TV to be more precise) animes, instead of your typical shows on Cartoon Network back in the day for example. After knowing more what Anime was, I got very into it and watched many more series from the 80s, 90s and a few from the late 70s. I really enjoyed them and they were great to watch at that age. Then the internet showed up, and it opened a door that allowed me to have an easier and wider access to it, so i could watch many more shows and up to date. **My apologies for the long and off-topic intro to my post. But to the point.. having watched a great diversity of series from both before and after Evangelion, i have to say that the Anime has grown up. I loved (and love) the pre-95 series, although they aren't as complex or deep as today's series, but they were very fun and had lots of emotion. But back then you wouldn't find many series (if at all) like Code Geass, Eureka 7, Nana, etc. I feel that the anime has grown up along with its viewer, so there aren't only animes that appeal (targeted) to kids or young teens, but aswell to adults. A lot of today's animes are very deep, with well developed plots and good scripts, before there was too, but standars have risen, and a more mature approach has been given. Leaving aside the graphic aspect, since the improvement is mostly technologic (CG and HDTV sets) than just artistic, the literary aspect either from a Manga work, or from an original script/story on average they seem to me better now.