Gurren-Lagann - Episode 27 (END) Discussion / Poll

[GPA]

Because he didn't have the right to. Like Archer said, Nia didn't want to be saved from dying, and it would've gone against everything Simon lived for to disrespect her wishes about the matter. If he wanted to Simon could've brought EVERYONE who died back, probably even Kamina. They had the cloning technology and now Simon has enough Spiral energy to power a galaxy- but it just wasn't his right to do so.
If you need another analogy in the series, it's like Yoko and Kittan, Yoko could've begged Kittan not to go on his suicide run, but she just says "It's something you want to do so I won't stop you."

Also, I was wondering about the spiral eye at the end, is it possible that he got that from absorbing Lord Genome's spiral power/soul?

[Anh_Minh]

What cloning technology? And a clone of Kamina wouldn't be Kamina.

What makes you think Nia wanted to die? She wasn't suicidal. She was resigned. She didn't want to live at the expense of their victory over the anti-spiral, but once he was defeated, why didn't they look for a way to cure her?

Kittan didn't want to die either. But he saw something that needed doing, so he did it even though it cost him his life. That's different from sitting there doing nothing waiting for death to arrive for no other reason than laziness.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by Archer

If he had revived Nia, then he would also have to bring back Kamina, then Kittan, then Lordgenome, then the entire Gurren Brigade. Then really, what would be the point? Just because he has power, doesn't mean that he should use it selfishly. That'll be horribly insulting, considering that the people he'd fought were fighting for noble goals, and here he is using that same power for his own desire.

I still don't accept it.

After a certain point everyone realized he was going balls out because he wanted Nia back. As much as doing away with the Anti-Spirals was the primary goal for everyone with him, getting back Nia was HIS primary goal.

I laugh at the notion that everyone would have gotten their panties in a knot if he brought Nia back. 'Virtual life' my ass. You guys act like he doesn't even deserve the happiness of being with his loved one anymore, and instead you feed me this philosophical / existential crap in an attempt to justify things.

When did TTGL ever need justifying? When did Simon ever sit back and ponder on a second thought? Never. All or nothing. Not, nothing and goodbye.

Besides, even if Nia is dead, it doesn't mean that Nia doesn't live on in Simon's heart. As long as he knows that Nia, Kamina, and his friends are by his side, they will never truly be gone.

Please stop, I'm gagging over here. This is TTGL, the most testosterone fueled show in the past 5+ years, not an Oprah special you can sit and scarf bon-bons to.

[GPA]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

If Nia had the willpower to live through the final battle she should have SUCKED IT UP and lived her life for as long as possible.

And the more people have to 'explain' the ending, or the justification of Nia dieing, the less value it holds, and the stupider the ending gets.

She did suck it up and lived as long as she could.

I didn't need anyone to explain the ending to me, I was hoping for a Nia/ Simon ending, but I understood why what happened happened. To me the characters' dialog spells everything out pretty plainly.

Also Simon living the way he does is a matter of choice, there is no shame in being a vagabond if it's what he wants to do. I'm pretty sure he has a ton of cash, so it's not like he's really a hobo or anything.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Are you cracked?

Twenty minutes prior in the episodes they were hurling freaking GALAXIES at each other like they were shuriken. Don't give me a line like 'reality in fiction'.

Nah, not going to buy it.

my post apparently flew over your head like a roflcopter

your reading comprehension FTL

here's reality - there is no true happy ending when war is involved. With fictional stories, this also holds true in most series w/ a war factor. G Gundam is one exception, though I thought the ending was uber cheesy.

::hands Master Chibi a plastic bag::

take that, put it over your head, and beat yourself.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by GPA

She did suck it up and lived as long as she could.

Yeah, right to the end of the wedding day.

Worst fucking delivery for the revelation by the way, whoever thought that was a good idea at Gainax should be dragged out into the streets and shot in the face.

I didn't need anyone to explain the ending to me, I was hoping for a Nia/ Simon ending, but I understood why what happened happened. To me the characters' dialog spells everything out pretty plainly.

NOONE is asking for explainations. We all know what happened.

It just DOES NOT make sense, no matter how much you guys try to work at it.

Also Simon living the way he does is a matter of choice, there is no shame in being a vagabond if it's what he wants to do. I'm pretty sure he has a ton of cash, so it's not like he's really a hobo or anything.

Yeah, good for him. Stay away from everyone else you grew up with, went to war with, and save the very fabric of space and time with. What kind of message does that give you?

"Now that it's over I want to spend THE LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME WITH YOU GUYS AS POSSIBLE, PEACE OUT."

[GPA]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

What cloning technology? And a clone of Kamina wouldn't be Kamina.

What makes you think Nia wanted to die? She wasn't suicidal. She was resigned. She didn't want to live at the expense of their victory over the anti-spiral, but once he was defeated, why didn't they look for a way to cure her?

Kittan didn't want to die either. But he saw something that needed doing, so he did it even though it cost him his life. That's different from sitting there doing nothing waiting for death to arrive for no other reason than laziness.

The cloning technology that made the beastmen and revived Lord Genome's head. It was all there earlier, so I'm pretty sure they still have it.
And as far as being lazy, I'm pretty sure they wed after a day or two since they knew they didn't have much time, and instead of panicking and gnashing their teeth about beating the clock, they just probably enjoyed what they had of each other while they could, which culminated in the wedding. He gave her everything she wanted while he had her.

And like Kittan, Nia knew that destroying Anti Spiral homeworld would kill her too but it needed to be done. She accepted that like Kittan did, got her brief time in the sun and said what needed to be said, then when she was sure Simon was ready she let nature take its course.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

here's reality - there is no true happy ending when war is involved. With fictional stories, this also holds true in most series w/ a war factor. G Gundam is one exception, though I thought the ending was uber cheesy.

Why are you bringing the reality of war into this?

This isn't reality. It's anime. The literal woven artform of human expression and emotion at its utmost exaggerated points.

It's more the choice of Gainax to have gone this way then the 'reality of war' guy.

You can take your plastic bag and keep it.

I choose paper~

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Yeah, good for him. Stay away from everyone else you grew up with, went to war with, and save the very fabric of space and time with. What kind of message does that give you?

"Now that it's over I want to spend THE LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME WITH YOU GUYS AS POSSIBLE, PEACE OUT."

that's the message YOU got from it, as shallow as you make it want to seem.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Why are you bringing the reality of war into this?

This isn't reality. It's anime. The literal woven artform of human expression and emotion at its utmost exaggerated points.

holy freakin crap...can you not read?

alright, I'm labeling you a /troll.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

holy freakin crap...can you not read?

alright, I'm labeling you a /troll.

I read it.

And I'm not a troll.

You took it as the reality of war.

But TTGL isn't reality.

Yeah, let's spend an entire 26 episodes showing that fate isn't written in stone, that other people aren't in charge of your destiny, and that you hold the power to change, shape, and mold your future by belief, faith, and willpower....

Only to say it "Fuck it, you is dieing, I guess I can't do anything" in the last 10 minutes of the show and go completely against the line of thinking the entire show based itself upon.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by GPA

The cloning technology that made the beastmen and revived Lord Genome's head. It was all there earlier, so I'm pretty sure they still have it.

Genome wasn't cloned. Just... repaired. Sort of.

As for the beastmen, we don't know if they were cloned. I certainly don't see how it could help Nia.

And as far as being lazy, I'm pretty sure they wed after a day or two since they knew they didn't have much time, and instead of panicking and gnashing their teeth about beating the clock, they just probably enjoyed what they had of each other while they could, which culminated in the wedding. He gave her everything she wanted while he had her.

And like Kittan, Nia knew that destroying Anti Spiral homeworld would kill her too but it needed to be done. She accepted that like Kittan did, got her brief time in the sun and said what needed to be said, then when she was sure Simon was ready she let nature take its course.

I still think they should have tried. It's not like Simon to give up like that.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

I laugh at the notion that everyone would have gotten their panties in a knot if he brought Nia back. 'Virtual life' my ass. You guys act like he doesn't even deserve the happiness of being with his loved one anymore, and instead you feed me this philosophical / existential crap in an attempt to justify things.

When did TTGL ever need justifying? When did Simon ever sit back and ponder on a second thought? Never. All or nothing. Not, nothing and goodbye.

You are missing what was said before. A Simon who brings back Nia using his powers would WANT to bring back everyone else. Simon would do no less. But instead of people screaming "Gainax you bastards!" for killing Nia, an entirely different group of people would be screaming "Gainax You Bastards!" for resurrecting Kamina.

Sorry, but you missed out. Gainax made the decision to go for one instead of the other.

p.s. What made you think they didn't try everything they can to save Nia after the battle? Perhaps they couldn't stop it after many attempts, so they organised a wedding on her last day in the world. (They probably know she was going to disappear that day, that's why no one is too shocked.)
We don't know the time gap between the final fight and the wedding at all.

[Master Chibi]

Ok now you make a valid point, one that I can't really argue against.

You're right.

*sigh*

[7Th]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

p.s. What made you think they didn't try everything they can to save Nia after the battle? Perhaps they couldn't stop it after many attempts, so they organised a wedding on her last day in the world. (They probably know she was going to disappear that day, that's why no one is too shocked.)
We don't know the time gap between the final fight and the wedding at all.

If he did tried to save Nia, that would make Simon a failed hero like ahoige said...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by 7Th

If he did tried to save Nia, that would make Simon a failed hero like ahoige said...

He married his wife. And brief as it was, they were happy. How is that a failure? Life continues.

[7Th]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

He married his wife. And brief as it was, they were happy. How is that a failure? Life continues.

That would only be if he hadn't tried to save her... if he did everything in his hands to change destiny but she still died he failed by definition. 0% was only 0% in the end.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by 7Th

That would only be if he hadn't tried to save her... if he did everything in his hands to change destiny but she still died he failed by definition. 0% was only 0% in the end.

He already change 0% to 100% when Nia's human personality resurfaced. Simon also took Nia back hime from the Anti Spirals. That's what he changed, and that's what he originally claimed to aim for.

It was actually quite easy to save Nia; by not destroying the antispirals. But Nia wanted him to, so he did. She made the choice.

[Tempest35]

... if he used the Spiral Power selfishly as in resurrecting them back, then he'd be a failed hero and he'd become the apex of what Anti-Spiral was fighting against - Spirals who get absorbed with the Spiral power to use it for their whims.

Yoko said it best - "Simon is not a god."

Could Simon had 'saved' Nia from 'dying'? Are we sure? The space existing between the 10th and 11th dimensions collapsed completely with the destruction of the Anti-Spirals since it was their power that held it there. They were all, essentially, one creature. When the entire planet and space that sustained and kept the Anti-Spirals intact was destroyed, Nia pretty much ran out of 'air' (sustaining power) if you will allow the metaphor. You can't use gas in a battery-powered device to keep it operating...

The Anti Spirals existed like that for who knows how long - the Dai Gurren Dan wouldn't know how to 'switch' Nia to being a Spiral and even if they did, they would have probably had to re-write her entire DNA code to do so. Simon does NOT know how to do that...Lord Geneome probably could have though...
It had to be sheer willpower for her to keep herself intact for so long as to allow her to get married to Simon and that says worlds about her right there.

and like VCV pointed out, Nia did technically choose her path by reminding Simon what and why he was fighting for - a tomorrow undecided by anyone's whims or plans. A tomorrow with freedom of choice as how to live.

[Kyuusai]

The more I think about it, the more I think that it could have ended without losing Nia, but I don't see Simon letting Nia go as giving up or as failure. Simon faced a choice during battle: Preserve Nia or defeat the Anti-Spiral. Perhaps there was some secret third option of doing both, but Nia made the choice for him.

In other words, Nia gave herself up to make it easier for him. At that point, she was already passed on, by her own choice. She was at peace in doing so. If she wasn't, Simon wouldn't have been so peaceful at the end.