The Final Romance Thread - How Not To Be Banned [Read Opening Post]

[bladeofdarkness]

but thats just it
almost anyone who pairs them up basiclly sums it up as "you'r both hot/cute/pretty/whatever, they would look nice together"
and thats not really much to go on since that applys to almost ANY two characters (with only a matter of personal taste making the difference)
looking at it from a character standpoint however, it doesnt make much sense

[mearii]

yah.. i understand your point.. lol ^_^

[snowdevil_crow]

heh, and... so? Isn't that reason enough? XD

[bladeofdarkness]

reason enough for what ?

[snowdevil_crow]

To pair them?

Not for them to be canon though, no.

[bladeofdarkness]

but by that virtue you could just as easily pair shierly with gino, or C.C, or euphie while were at it ("she's dead for a full year before gino is introduced ? so what, they look great")
if the only reason you pair two people up is becouse they LOOK nice together, then there is litteraly no limit to how far you can take this (depending on personal taste)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

but by that virtue you could just as easily pair shierly with gino, or C.C, or euphie while were at it ("she's dead for a full year before gino is introduced ? so what, they look great")
if the only reason you pair two people up is becouse they LOOK nice together, then there is litteraly no limit to how far you can take this (depending on personal taste)

And that's exactly what people do.
It's called fanfiction/fanart/doujinshi.
Granted, usually, personalities come into play, as well. But more often than not, they are only fuel to the fire.

[snowdevil_crow]

... yes? Is there something wrong with that? xD

Basically, what nogitsune said.

[bladeofdarkness]

but then its not related to characterazition at all
its JUST fan fiction
its not WRONG per say
but its also cant be taken as a REAL possibility since it isnt based in anything within the show

[Frostfire]

How does the possibility work at all... if the creators said they weren't interested in each other in that way?

Boggles my mind a little.

You ask a question, someone answers it with a 'no'... do you still wonder what the answer is?

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

but then its not related to characterazition at all
its JUST fan fiction
its not WRONG per say
but its also cant be taken as a REAL possibility since it isnt based in anything within the show

Well, since Snow already included the "not canon" thing, I don't know what there is to argue.
It's not a possibility in the sense of "yep, the anime says so!". But if a fanfiction author manages to make it plausible, I'll accept it as a possibility in the sense of "well, if the staff had wanted it to happen, it could have worked out without the characters becoming OOC".

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Well, since Snow already included the "not canon" thing, I don't know what there is to argue.
It's not a possibility in the sense of "yep, the anime says so!". But if a fanfiction author manages to make it plausible, I'll accept it as a possibility in the sense of "well, if the staff had wanted it to happen, it could have worked out without the characters becoming OOC".

That's a bit backwards logic isn't it? If the staff had wanted it, it would have been there. So if its not there, then the staff did not want it. I don't think you can take someone's spinning of characters in an AU to whatever whim they may want, and place it over what the actual writer did.

Fanfiction is fanfiction, but you should keep it and the show seperate. Fanfiction is an AU, characters are never completely in character. For example, for this pairing, Kallen is not a cliche tsundere yet most such fanfictions present her as such.

Girl who hides her emotions by being violent.

^ This Kallen didn't exist in the show. I think one of the best characterizations of Kallen I ever saw, was the fanfiction called 'Graffiti' or something like that.

I consider fanfiction is own story with character who have names in tribute to the author's liked show, I do not consider it as a tie into the actual story though, but that's just me.

[bladeofdarkness]

and CAN it ?
can you pair kallen with gino without derailing EITHER of their characters
you cant reduce kallen's love for lelouch or ideals about justice and equality
and you cant make gino into a deeper more complex character then portrayed in the anime
under those conditions can you still pair them up ?

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and CAN it ?
can you pair kallen with gino without derailing EITHER of their characters
you cant reduce kallen's love for lelouch or ideals about justice and equality
and you cant make gino into a deeper more complex character then portrayed in the anime
under those conditions can you still pair them up ?

You can make Gino more deep, that's not really hard. He's such a stupidly-2D character that you could throw in just about anything for him to make him deeper. You can also make Kallen move past Lelouch via circumstances.

Its not so much derailing, as it is making up circumstances to change how the characters were resolved at the end of show. Now if we talk about the whole overlooked 'he was KoR and oppressed her people' bit, then you can talk about derailment.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Frostfire

That's a bit backwards logic isn't it? If the staff had wanted it, it would have been there. So if its not there, then the staff did not want it. I don't think you can take someone's spinning of characters in an AU to whatever whim they may want, and place it over what the actual writer did.

Fanfiction is fanfiction, but you should keep it and the show seperate. Fanfiction is an AU, characters are never completely in character. For example, for this pairing, Kallen is not a cliche tsundere yet most such fanfictions present her as such.

Girl who hides her emotions by being violent.

^ This Kallen didn't exist in the show.

I consider fanfiction is own story with character who have names in tribute to the author's liked show, I do not consider it as a tie into the actual story though, but that's just me.

Which is what I usually sum up as "not canon".
My point was that if someone makes a pairing work, it works. It's still not there in the show, but I could see it happen, and that means I can enjoy the fanfiction.
If the only thing a fanfiction has in common with the characters are the names, I'll be on my way again and not think: "hm, well, the pairing could have been nice even/especially in the actual anime" as I might otherwise.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and CAN it ?
can you pair kallen with gino without derailing EITHER of their characters
you cant reduce kallen's love for lelouch or ideals about justice and equality
and you cant make gino into a deeper more complex character then portrayed in the anime
under those conditions can you still pair them up ?

I believe a good fanfiction writer can make almost everything work.
And since you youself seem to think KallenxSuzaku would be believable, I don't see the totally not-solvable problem with KallenxGino.
Ah well. Opinions.

[bladeofdarkness]

he WAS a KoR working for the system who oppressed her people (and told her at one point that she should become one TOO)
he was part of the noble system that viewed everyone like lessers (even MORE for numbers)
and as kallen says in the last PD he STILL acts like it

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I believe a good fanfiction writer can make almost everything work.
And since you youself seem to think KallenxSuzaku would be believable, I don't see the totally not-solvable problem with KallenxGino.
Ah well. Opinions.

and my views on kazaku are based partly on the fact that there is actually something between them you can WORK with
a shared bond in their goals (even if by different means)
a shard secret
a VERY healty dose of respect for each other
and the fact that suzaku can understand how kallen feels about losing lelouch better then ANYONE ELSE ON EARTH (since he went through the exact same thing with euphie)
among other things

you at least have a BASIS to work with in the case of kallen X suzaku
you dont really have that with gino (as last seen, kallen basiclly suffers his presence and little more)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he WAS a KoR working for the system who oppressed her people (and told her at one point that she should become one TOO)
he was part of the noble system that viewed everyone like lessers (even MORE for numbers)
and as kallen says in the last PD he STILL acts like it

And Suzaku is dead to the world.
Gino's character was never really well-developed. It's not impossible for him to "grow up", because we only know so much about him.
Lelouch decided to break the chain of hatred. I can't see Kallen refusing to accept that people can change.
I don't think I could write KallenxGino, mostly because I don't care enough to even really think it through, so let's not go into the details here. I just believe it's possible.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

And Suzaku is dead to the world.
Gino's character was never really well-developed. It's not impossible for him to "grow up", because we only know so much about him.

kallen knows suzaku aint really dead
in fact she's one of the ONLY people who know that, which makes her even MORE likely (lack of options beside her and nunnaly)

and what little we DO know about gino does NOT suggest what your saying
he is portrayed as rather shallow and somewhat racist in his world view

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Which is what I usually sum up as "not canon".
My point was that if someone makes a pairing work, it works. It's still not there in the show, but I could see it happen, and that means I can enjoy the fanfiction.
If the only thing a fanfiction has in common with the characters are the names, I'll be on my way again and not think: "hm, well, the pairing could have been nice even/especially in the actual anime" as I might otherwise.

That's the thing I am picking at, though. If someone makes the pairing work, it doesn't mean the pairing actually works. It just makes it possible in an AU that may as well be called Batman's Wacky Adventures in Toon Land. Like you said, it amounts to "hm, well, the pairing could have been nice..." but its relevance to the show and the actual characters is still zero. And that's what I am talking about, the actual characters.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

I believe a good fanfiction writer can make almost everything work.
And since you youself seem to think KallenxSuzaku would be believable, I don't see the totally not-solvable problem with KallenxGino.
Ah well. Opinions.

Not that I support either idea, but the pretense behind KxS has far more in common through Lelouch and less "commited racial oppression for years on your people" between them than the latter.

Quick edit: Nogi, while I agree people can change and grow up, you do have a good dose of evidence that Gino does not. The last PD is how many months after the end of the show? He's still the same.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

kallen knows suzaku aint really dead
in fact she's one of the ONLY people who know that, which makes her even MORE likely (lack of options beside her and nunnaly)

and what little we DO know about gino does NOT suggest what your saying
he is portrayed as rather shallow and somewhat racist in his world view

So it butchers Kallen's character if she decides to get together with Gino, but not Suzaku's if he decides "punishment be damned, I'll go and make out with the girl hopelessly in love with my dead best friend"?
I'm aware you're thinking of a lot of development, but that's not any more "canon" than KaGino.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

That's the thing I am picking at, though. If someone makes the pairing work, it doesn't mean the pairing actually works. It just makes it possible in an AU that may as well be called Batman's Wacky Adventures in Toon Land. Like you said, it amounts to "hm, well, the pairing could have been nice..." but its relevance to the show and the actual characters is still zero. And that's what I am talking about, the actual characters.

Well, of course fanfiction can't change the actual characters.
If anything, a talented author will make me look at a character and think: "Hm, I've never looked at them that way. But somehow, it makes sense..."
This isn't really about pairings anymore, though, and thus belongs into the fanfiction thread.

Quick edit: Nogi, while I agree people can change and grow up, you do have a good dose of evidence that Gino does not. The last PD is how many months after the end of the show? He's still the same.

Well, at least he didn't blow anyone up recently.
And I think it's as likely for Gino to become a truly awesome person as it is for Suzaku to go and kiss the girl.