How to Debate Properly...?

[Thewanderer]

I'm a very sensitive guy, and I usually have a very unique perspective on things. Added to the fact that I don't know many big or fancy words makes debating very difficult for me. I feel overwhelmed very easily, I have paranoid thoughts of the other side bullying me, and I lose my train of thought because of panic. In addition, I sometimes say the wrong things, accidentally "flame" other people, and word things wrong. Also, I tend to take threads far off topic from the argument. In other words, I'm a very, very, VERY bad debater.

Anyone have any tips or suggestions? Anyone going through similar problems?

[Shadow Kira01]

Debate on what? Unless specified, it is difficult to give any suggestions.

If its the typical thing, then all you got to do is just give suggestions and/or opinions when you feel like it. I don't see why you need jargons or whatsoever.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

Debate on what? Unless specified, it is difficult to give any suggestions.

If its the typical thing, then all you got to do is just give suggestions and/or opinions when you feel like it. I don't see why you need jargons or whatsoever.

I didn't think there's different debating styles for things...

Okay then, like... here on AS? If that's specific enough >.>

[solomon]

There are probably books that could teach you debating or even arguing wiether written or spoken. It's all about how to back up claims with evidence and communicate them effectively.

But on another note, why would you wanna waste time debating on the AS forums? Debating is cool, but I think it's rather odd to do so here, or even to do so on a forum in general (many more constructive things you could be doing, LIKE WATCHING MORE ANIMU!

[james0246]

I had a few minutes, so I threw together some possible solutions to help you:

Is it possible that you are not a bad debater, but rather that you can get frustrated when you cannot properly express your viewpoint (or the person you are talking to refuses to acknowledge your viewpoint as being legitimate).

EX: you have Hiyori as a Sig, so let's say you enter a thread and read a post that claims that Hiyori is an annoying and stupid character. Since you like her, you will try and defend her by stating why the poster is wrong, and what makes Hiyori a fun and smart character, but in the process of trying to explain this, you become frustrated because you are unclear how to properly explain why Hiyori is "fun" and "smart". So, you end up simply saying that she is fun and smart, and then when the negative poster disagrees with you, a mini-flame war starts.

If this sounds like a common problem, the simplest solution is to take more time with your posts. Specifically, type everything you want to type (say everything you wish to say), but before you post, re-read what you have written, and cut out (edit) anything that could be considered offensive or too off topic. And, if you still have problems properly conveying what you feel, or why you feel a certain way, take a break and sit back and rethink the topic. Try and assign specific adjectives or descriptive words that you would use to describe your point of view, and if you feel that your words are too weak, simply explain that your viewpoint is "like X" or "greater than X" (X being a stand-in for whatever adjective or descriptive word you wish to use to describe your feelings concerning a topic).

Now, if you are interested in actually debating someone based on facts, figures, and opinions, you will need a basic understanding of the discussion, as well as a few facts that support whatever your opinion might be for the discussion on hand. Do not be afraid of using the Internet to aid in your discussion, specifically looking up whether your opponents facts are legitimate and also whether or not there might be other info out there that supports your point of view.

Additionally, do not be afraid to ask you opponent to clarify their position. To go back to the previous example, If they do not like Hiyori because she is annoying, ask them to reference a specific instance where she is annoying, and then you can debate whether she is annoying in that instance or not

(It should be noted that the Hiyori example is purely opinion based, so a real debate cannot occur when you are only arguing emotions rather than actual facts and figures.)

I am sure, due to my brevity, that I am missing some obvious solutions that could help you, so hopefully others will step in and provide more examples, etc.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

Debate on what? Unless specified, it is difficult to give any suggestions.

If its the typical thing, then all you got to do is just give suggestions and/or opinions when you feel like it. I don't see why you need jargons or whatsoever.

You don't need specific topic to give suggestions now.

--

These are what I would recommend.

*http://thesaurus.reference.com/ is your best friend.
*google and wiki are a good source of information. Use wiki wisely now.

1. If you don't know your topic, research on it.
2. Express yourself in a calm manner, with real facts. Fight facts with facts, not facts with opinions.
3. If you do use opinions, give a or some reasons why you support that argument you created. Same if you oppose someones else's choice, fight about it with facts that are down to earth.
4. Talk about specific points on your topic, don't go supporting a debate about personal reasons, like "oh my religion says I can't do this."
5. Real facts are the most reliable source of information, not your best friends opinion.

*Try to avoid the internet trend of "circular arguments."

[Kakashi]

Honestly, I consider myself a good debater but...on certain opinionated anime forums, deep thinking tends to result in what can only be described as rape. Especially for non-conformists, you get outnumbered and it's not pretty. I've seen you debate a little on the Bleach forum, and I think the problem isn't with you but with the orthodox types who tend to clump together and prance about being idiots.

So sometimes it will always be a lose-lose situation. But getting better at debate is always useful regardless.

[C.A.]

I'll just say practice(), tolerance and know when to stop.

Of course you need a good command of the language in the first place, if not debates would either become pointless or one-sided .

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai

*http://thesaurus.reference.com/ is your best friend.
*google and wiki are a good source of information. Use wiki wisely now.

I have all 3 on my bookmarks toolbar <.< I need to learn how to use the resources I have more intelligently, I guess.

So... when you're talking about religious values, I'm guessing that goes for non-religious values as well. I think that may be my biggest problem. When I see something as disturbing the values I think everyone should have, I usually speak up about it. Kinda embarrassing >.>

Thanks for everyone's input, by the way.

Edit: While I know what my problem is, it's also my biggest weakness in keeping my mouth shut. When someone posts something that goes against my values, it bothers me deep down, sometimes to the point where I have trouble sleeping tonight. It seems that sometimes, I can't have piece of mind till I address the post bothering me. That's when I get trapped in this debate where everyone's mad at me and I'm wondering why, and I get frustrated trying to explain things to them...

[Anh_Minh]

In my opinion, you should never act as if your opinion, in and of itself, has any value whatsoever to anyone but yourself.

(Your thoughts, OTOH, are welcome.)

[WanderingKnight]

Be short, concise and as poignant as possible. At least that's my style. Reduce the other party's contradictions to absurdity (watch out since it could become a strawman argument) and pose rhetoric questions that also point out their contradictions (also strawman fodder).

I used to go on Ledgem-esque () rants but I slowly developed a shorter and more concise style. I know people might perceive me as acidic, but I'm a very tender person on the inside

Also, it would be good to clear your thoughts first and debate with yourself what exactly your point is. If you can't form your idea in your head, you will not be able to communicate it (I know I suffer from compulsive posting, so I've been guilty of this myself a couple of times).

[Blerghovic]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

I have all 3 on my bookmarks toolbar <.< I need to learn how to use the resources I have more intelligently, I guess.

So... when you're talking about religious values, I'm guessing that goes for non-religious values as well. I think that may be my biggest problem. When I see something as disturbing the values I think everyone should have, I usually speak up about it. Kinda embarrassing >.>

Thanks for everyone's input, by the way.

Edit: While I know what my problem is, it's also my biggest weakness in keeping my mouth shut. When someone posts something that goes against my values, it bothers me deep down, sometimes to the point where I have trouble sleeping tonight. It seems that sometimes, I can't have piece of mind till I address the post bothering me. That's when I get trapped in this debate where everyone's mad at me and I'm wondering why, and I get frustrated trying to explain things to them...

Make sure you don't get frustrated, that's vital. Also, make sure to attempt polite ownage at every chance you get, it's just funner that way.

[Thewanderer]

How can I not get frustrated though? How can I not lose sleep over petty arguments? Wouldn't it be better just to avoid socializing with anyone at all than to start a fight over something that'll make me unbearably upset if I try walking away?

[Daniel E.]

Say, are you the one that used to constantly argue with monir back at the Bleach section?

I think I vaguely remember you as a regular poster there.

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Edit: While I know what my problem is, it's also my biggest weakness in keeping my mouth shut. When someone posts something that goes against my values, it bothers me deep down, sometimes to the point where I have trouble sleeping tonight.

Don't know how much things have changed since then, but if you are the one I mentioned earlier then your problem is that you somehow believe your opinion has more value than those of others.

Nobody has all the answers and nobody is always right.

It seems that sometimes, I can't have piece of mind till I address the post bothering me. That's when I get trapped in this debate where everyone's mad at me and I'm wondering why, and I get frustrated trying to explain things to them..

I think is outright stupid to enter a discussion trying to "own" everybody else posting in any given thread. IMHO, is best to try and voice your POV as best as possible, listening later what others have to say in the matter.

Even if you think you are right, others could sometimes prove otherwise; Hence why I believe is better to discuss with an open mind if only to give others the fair chance you are obviously looking to receive.

[Thewanderer]

I'm too insecure and sensitive to lose an argument though. I get scared if I'm losing an argument. I start resorting to whatever I can think of. And when I'm arguing about values, I can't see how everyone else is arguing when in my PoV, I haven't been proven wrong yet.

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Say, are you the one that used to constantly argue with monir back at the Bleach section?

I think I vaguely remember you as a regular poster there.

Yes actually, that was me.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by Hiraishin

Make sure you don't get frustrated, that's vital. Also, make sure to attempt polite ownage at every chance you get, it's just funner that way.

Yeah, that's why I try to suggest to keep the "circular arguments" to a low as much as possible.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

I'm too insecure and sensitive to lose an argument though. I get scared if I'm losing an argument. I start resorting to whatever I can think of. And when I'm arguing about values, I can't see how everyone else is arguing when in my PoV, I haven't been proven wrong yet.

Then stop getting into arguments. It's like gambling. If you can't afford to lose, don't play.

Especially arguments about "values", if you can't accept that other people have different POV, as valid as yours or more.

[Paladinoras]

Well, I debate a lot of times.

Mostly about Gundams

Well, the only advice I can give you is to confuse the living hell out of your opponent.

Plus, say things clearly and concisely and ensure that there are no loopholes in your answer. If there is a loophole, then it better be made on purpose so that you can slam your opponent with an AMAZING comeback!! I learnt this the hard way. I said a statement with a gigantic loophole and people started calling me a . . well, my personal life is unimportant, so yeah ..

Works everytime for me.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Well, I debate a lot of times.

Mostly about Gundams

Well, the only advice I can give you is to confuse the living hell out of your opponent.

Plus, say things clearly and concisely and ensure that there are no loopholes in your answer. If there is a loophole, then it better be made on purpose so that you can slam your opponent with an AMAZING comeback!! I learnt this the hard way. I said a statement with a gigantic loophole and people started calling me a . . well, my personal life is unimportant, so yeah ..

Works everytime for me.

Well, if you have already made the boo-boo, don't try to cover up by avoiding questions on it. If you really have no idea what the facts are, admit it.

Again, distinguish fact from opinion.

Fact: Hitler was appointed Chancellor of Germany on 30 Jan 1933.

Opinion/Argument: Hitler's appointment was the first step in the NSDAP's seizure of power.

[Skullchukka]

Have respect to other people's thoughts. Learn that they are not supposed to share your feelings on any issue.

And read some novels for better usage of words, If you think you're bad at them ^^

Add : Oh, and don't debate with people who you can never get to a settlement.
Example : If you're an Atheist, and want to debate with a very religious catholic, the chances that both sides will respect each others thoughts and keep the conversation in a high level is near to zero.