AnimeSuki Forums

cracktastic · 2013-04-17, 17:17

This is a late reply, but I really felt the need to respond to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cronnoponno

She asked for a kickstarter and made about 150k$ just for this one video, and the biggest offense she committed was disabling any type of people who wish to argue to the contrary by disabling her comments, ratings, and likes, under the excuse that she was ''threatened to be killed and raped''

Yeaaaaaah about the thing you put in scare quotes to discredit her (because men threatening to rape women who dare to have an opposing opinion is something that never happens, am I right?! Psst: that's the same guy whose video you linked to

]), that actually happened (along with a bunch of other vile stuff; I felt my blood pressure rising just reading a few of those comments). How about that! That just shows that you just may want to find other sources of news other than Reddit and 4chan.

Also, she is making a series of videos on the subject of misogyny in video games. A series. Seeeeeries, as in more than one? And as you can see, a lot of the money was out toward, gasp!, buying the actual video games to play through so she would actually know what she was talking about!

Also, she only asked for $6000, but people went out of their way to give her over $100,000 more. Hmm, could it possibly be that there are a lot of women (and men) who feel that there is a need to explore tropes about women in video games?

…nah, couldn't be!

(An actual funny sidenote about this: there was a "similar" project that was supposed to be about hurtful tropes about men in video games (lol) started by detractors, but it didn't quite end up the same way…

Quote:

Meanwhile, Tropes versus Men (or, as it’s also known, “An analysis of male roles and misandry present in modern video game media”) has disappeared without a trace.

… Nevertheless I managed to track down one of the organisers to a twitter account. Here I was assured that the money had been donated, but an assertion that the campaign had been updated on the matter conflicted with the evidence. As you can see, further enquiries on that matter proved fruitless.

… Piqued by the recent disappearance of the campaign and knowing full well the habit of some Tropes vs Women detractors to photoshop materials to suit their needs, I contacted the charities to check the veracity of these claims. As of publishing I have heard back from only one of the charities, the Prostate Cancer Foundation, who informed me that a donation of that amount on that date does not exist in their system. To be fully sure they would need the affiliation that the donations were made through, at which I can only guess, but the representative seemed confident that the claims were fake and suggested their attorney would send a cease and desist to the people involved.

…uh, OOPS!

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-17, 17:40

Oh yea so explain why she needed the 100k for... anything she used in the video.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-04-17, 18:05

Still doesn't explain why she needs to disable her comments so that no one could challenge her views either.

synaesthetic · 2013-04-17, 19:13

Anita Sarkeesian is just another professional victim in the vein of Rebecca Watson, bleating on the internet about RAEP THRETZ to drive up her Google AdSense checks.

I watched the video in question. It's really, really terrible. Most of the examples it uses are old (even when there's plenty of good modern examples of misogyny and sexual objectification of women in games!) and easily obtained without any money spent (emulators and such).

No, these aren't actual activists--they're people who tumbled to the fact that if you have what is commonly known as a vagina, and you cry loudly and convincingly enough on the internet, a horde of lonely, horny boys will come rushing to do your bidding. Not to mention the money involved.

cracktastic · 2013-04-17, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Still doesn't explain why she needs to disable her comments so that no one could challenge her views either.

ooookay, you really need to look at this link (that I so conveniently had in my first post) where she posts uncensored comments that she's received--then try and tell me SHE'S the one who needs her views challenged. Tell me, how is "I hope you get cancer

" a valid criticism? I'm all ears!

But thanks for both of you trying to make her look like the bad guy even after I posted links of her being called every misogynist, homophobic and Anti-Semetic slur in the book!

synaesthetic · 2013-04-17, 19:29

I'm a woman.

I find Sarkeesian's tactics manipulative and disgusting and I'm ashamed of my gender because of what she, and others like her, are doing.

I've seen her "allowed comments." Most are troll comments. Boo-fucking-hoo. Did the bad words on the internet hurt her poor feelings? Cry me a fucking river.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-04-17, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cracktastic

ooookay, you really need to look at this link (that I so conveniently had in my first post) where she posts uncensored comments that she's received--then try and tell me SHE'S the one who needs her views challenged. Tell me, how is "I hope you get cancer

" a valid criticism? I'm all ears!

But thanks for both of you trying to make her look like the bad guy even after I posted links of her being called every misogynist, homophobic and Anti-Semetic slur in the book!

So what you're saying is that she cherry picked terrible comments to show while ignoring all the valid ones so as to discredit anyone who speaks out against her?

cracktastic · 2013-04-17, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I'm a woman.

I find Sarkeesian's tactics manipulative and disgusting and I'm ashamed of my gender because of what she, and others like her, are doing.

I've seen her "allowed comments." Most are troll comments. Boo-fucking-hoo. Did the bad words on the internet hurt her poor feelings? Cry me a fucking river.

Internalised misogyny is a hell of a drug.

And heeeeey, guess what, just being on the internet doesn't make harassment less valid or hurtful--in fact, it can make it spread even further so the consequences end up deadly. But okay, keep playing the internet tough guy and have no empathy for others--because if it doesn't personally hurt you, who gives a shit, huh?

synaesthetic · 2013-04-17, 19:35

Sure, she's got no legal obligation to leave comments enabled, but it sure says a lot about her character when she won't allow voices of dissent.

Not once did I bring up the First Amendment--you did, that's your own projection, and I am well aware that the First Amendment only prohibits the government from restricting speech.

All I said was that Sarkeesian clearly believes that if you don't agree with her, then your opinion is worthless. What an enlightened and mature position that is, wouldn't you agree?

Edit: LOL internalized misogyny... how rich. Why don't you stop fucking putting words in my mouth? I have my own mind and my own views on things. I personally believe that real feminists are out doing the real work--trying to help those poor girls in fundamentalist Islamic nations who are being treated like CATTLE.

#firstworldproblems

Besides, I already agreed that there's misogyny and sexual objectification of women in games. No shit. Any idiot with eyes can see that--the developers think it'll sell them more games. And guess what? It does. But it's changing--slowly, like most social change, it won't happen overnight. As time goes on, we'll see more and more realistic and positively-portrayed female characters in games, but we're not there yet.

I'm not an idiot. I know that misogyny and sexism exist. I also know that misandry exists, too--and being the victim of misogyny is no excuse for engaging in misandry. An eye for an eye soon leaves the whole world blind. Think about that for a bit.

cracktastic · 2013-04-17, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

So what you're saying is that she cherry picked terrible comments to show while ignoring all the valid ones so as to discredit anyone who speaks out against her?

Huh, no, that's an actual screenshot of a complete page of comments--you'll see there are some that aren't horrible, or are even encouraging her, but I'm sure you'll keep thinking whatever you want to ignore all the discrimination that is going on.

cracktastic · 2013-04-17, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Sure, she's got no legal obligation to leave comments enabled, but it sure says a lot about her character when she won't allow voices of dissent.

Not once did I bring up the First Amendment--you did, that's your own projection, and I am well aware that the First Amendment only prohibits the government from restricting speech.

All I said was that Sarkeesian clearly believes that if you don't agree with her, then your opinion is worthless. What an enlightened and mature position that is, wouldn't you agree?

Uh, you mentioned free speech, so…

No one seems to care about the actual issues so I'm done. I hope someone was at least a little educated, and if anyone wantd to ignore what I wrote that's fine, at least look at the links I posted because they contain some eye-opening stuff.

ArchmageXin · 2013-04-17, 20:32

This is becoming silly. If women complain about men making games they dislike (be it boobs, support cast, violence whatever), what is stopping women from making a video game with a all female team that is "feminist ideals?"

I mean, in Japan they had CLAMP doing an all girls manga (Magic Knight Rayearth, Chobits, etc) that is wildly popular, why can't a couple girl programmers get together and write their own story and dev their own game, and let the product be judged at their own merits, instead of this endless complaining to make men feel bad?

At the end of the day, we are talking about video games here.

Edit: At least women do get roles in video games and media, when was the last time you even saw a asian male as support or main character from a U.S studio? Starcraft is mega popular in Korea and China, but I don't think there were even one guy name wong or kim in it.

**Solace** · 2013-04-17, 20:37

It's times like this I realize people place far too much importance on social media.

I don't know Sarkeesian's background, but the sheer amount of vitriol that is spewed forth when she is mentioned is disturbing. With the way people react, you'd think she kicked your door down during breakfast, pissed in your cereal, and kicked your puppy for good measure on the way out.

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, talking about her is getting everyone off topic, and I'd hate to issue official actions.

Duo Maxwell · 2013-04-17, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

I mean, in Japan they had CLAMP doing an all girls manga (Magic Knight Rayearth, Chobits, etc) that is wildly popular

Not trying to dismiss your point or anything, but those are popular among men, too. For different reasons.

Back on topic, I just don't know why people bother complaining about game studio don't make games they like, and in this case, "cater toward women". It's not like that will help in any way. There is hardly any adventure game nowaday, but I don't go around complaining why do people keep on making CoD or Halo, because that still don't solve the problem that there is no good adventure game for me.

Instead, there is kickstarter if you want to look for someone's idea about building a game with elements that cater toward women (beat me, I don't even know what those are, since I myself enjoys game that people said "for women only"). But no, people are throwing money to someone bitching about games' current state.

ArchmageXin · 2013-04-17, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Not trying to dismiss your point or anything, but those are popular among men, too. For different reasons.

Back on topic, I just don't know why people bother complaining about game studio don't make games they like, and in this case, "cater toward women". It's not like that will help in any way. There is hardly any adventure game nowaday, but I don't go around complaining why do people keep on making CoD or Halo, because that still don't solve the problem that there is no good adventure game for me.

Instead, there is kickstarter if you want to look for someone's idea about building a game with elements that cater toward women (beat me, I don't even know what those are, since I myself enjoys game that people said "for women only"). But no, people are throwing money to someone bitching about games' current state.

The problems here are

1) Not enough Female Dev (Not men's fault certainly)

2) 60-85% of gamers are male, depend on the genre.

3) Conflicting opinions on what women want. You have girls who said "We don't want to see sex objects" then you have a ton of girls dress in skimpy cosplays at CONS. "We want to see female leads", then you have girls who said they love so-and-so male lead from game XXX. Then we have women are so beautiful it is "unreal" and "demeaning" to real life women, but I don't think a overweight male have been part of major dev studio either other then as a comedy gag in a game.

So in short, Devs get a ton of noise that conflict with each other, and marketing have to figure out "how many sales can we make by making the game THIS WAY as opposed to that way" , and generally, it is better to err on the side of caution and cater to a male audience than a female one. Especially if u are a C level Studio.

The only cure for this is start picking up that controller and play a game or two, ladies. :P Or learn how to code.

bigdeal000 · 2013-04-18, 08:01

I just came back today to this thread after a while of not visiting it and I find a lot of deleted comments. At first I thought there's only a few but when they kept appearing I was like

I'm waiting for my comment to be deleted because it's pointless too

Flying Dagger · 2013-04-18, 09:08

This is still a question yet unanswered:
What are examples of how males and female should look like in a female based game.

Its rather unfair if both a muscular guy and a pretty girl showing cleavage to be classified as a "guy" thing.

What do girls want? Although few in existence, I know girls who enjoy the "guy games" as much as I do.

Sometimes I can't help but to think: I don't like a lot of games out there, I am a woman, therefore there are no games designed for women.
As a guy, there are a lot of games out there that really do not interest me at all. I am not a big fan of FPS, and I am still scratching my head over how they can make a new FIFA/NHL game every year.

Ermes Marana · 2013-04-18, 10:37

It's funny that the OP mentioned Bayonetta as "made for men", since the opposite is true.

Bayonetta was designed by a female character designer and made for women. She was given the super long limbs precisely to differentiate her from "eye candy" female characters and make her appeal to women.

ArchmageXin · 2013-04-18, 11:00

Also to OP, here is the trick question.

If you have a game feature a hot girl like Lightning from FF13 (she is clearly not an E-Cup model in bikini), and you say that is sexist.

So lets choose an ugly heroine instead. You will lose the male audience, and you will lose a huge portion of female audience (Like my ex, who love to cosplay and said she can't stand playing an ugly girl when I asked her to dual Dwarves in WoW)

So it is a lose lose situation for the dev. What now?

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-18, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ermes Marana

It's funny that the OP mentioned Bayonetta as "made for men", since the opposite is true.

Bayonetta was designed by a female character designer and made for women. She was given the super long limbs precisely to differentiate her from "eye candy" female characters and make her appeal to women.

No, no it wasn't... Every thing about her is fetishized and a parody of those fetishes. It was marketed towards men from the get go. I've yet to hear one woman say that she likes anything about bayonetta.

Also, a woman doesn't have to be ugly to keep her from being eye candy. she just doesn't need sexual poses, exagerated breast physics and body shape and sexualized outfit like Bayonetta and Ivy from SC.
Like I said before, look at the Remember Me video game, show me one bit of her thats eye candy. Or even Samus before... that abomination. Samus was eye candy before she was eye candy. She was sexy
because she was a bad ass heroine.

2013-04-17, 17:40	Link #122
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	Oh yea so explain why she needed the 100k for... anything she used in the video. __________________

2013-04-17, 18:05	Link #123
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Still doesn't explain why she needs to disable her comments so that no one could challenge her views either. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2013-04-17, 19:13	Link #124
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Anita Sarkeesian is just another professional victim in the vein of Rebecca Watson, bleating on the internet about RAEP THRETZ to drive up her Google AdSense checks. I watched the video in question. It's really, really terrible. Most of the examples it uses are old (even when there's plenty of good modern examples of misogyny and sexual objectification of women in games!) and easily obtained without any money spent (emulators and such). No, these aren't actual activists--they're people who tumbled to the fact that if you have what is commonly known as a vagina, and you cry loudly and convincingly enough on the internet, a horde of lonely, horny boys will come rushing to do your bidding. Not to mention the money involved. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-04-17, 19:29	Link #126
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	I'm a woman. I find Sarkeesian's tactics manipulative and disgusting and I'm ashamed of my gender because of what she, and others like her, are doing. I've seen her "allowed comments." Most are troll comments. Boo-fucking-hoo. Did the bad words on the internet hurt her poor feelings? Cry me a fucking river. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-04-17, 19:35	Link #129
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Sure, she's got no legal obligation to leave comments enabled, but it sure says a lot about her character when she won't allow voices of dissent. Not once did I bring up the First Amendment--you did, that's your own projection, and I am well aware that the First Amendment only prohibits the government from restricting speech. All I said was that Sarkeesian clearly believes that if you don't agree with her, then your opinion is worthless. What an enlightened and mature position that is, wouldn't you agree? Edit: LOL internalized misogyny... how rich. Why don't you stop fucking putting words in my mouth? I have my own mind and my own views on things. I personally believe that real feminists are out doing the real work--trying to help those poor girls in fundamentalist Islamic nations who are being treated like CATTLE. #firstworldproblems Besides, I already agreed that there's misogyny and sexual objectification of women in games. No shit. Any idiot with eyes can see that--the developers think it'll sell them more games. And guess what? It does. But it's changing--slowly, like most social change, it won't happen overnight. As time goes on, we'll see more and more realistic and positively-portrayed female characters in games, but we're not there yet. I'm not an idiot. I know that misogyny and sexism exist. I also know that misandry exists, too--and being the victim of misogyny is no excuse for engaging in misandry. An eye for an eye soon leaves the whole world blind. Think about that for a bit. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-04-17, 20:32	Link #132
ArchmageXin Master of Coin Join Date: Mar 2008	This is becoming silly. If women complain about men making games they dislike (be it boobs, support cast, violence whatever), what is stopping women from making a video game with a all female team that is "feminist ideals?" I mean, in Japan they had CLAMP doing an all girls manga (Magic Knight Rayearth, Chobits, etc) that is wildly popular, why can't a couple girl programmers get together and write their own story and dev their own game, and let the product be judged at their own merits, instead of this endless complaining to make men feel bad? At the end of the day, we are talking about video games here. Edit: At least women do get roles in video games and media, when was the last time you even saw a asian male as support or main character from a U.S studio? Starcraft is mega popular in Korea and China, but I don't think there were even one guy name wong or kim in it.

2013-04-17, 20:37	Link #133
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	It's times like this I realize people place far too much importance on social media. I don't know Sarkeesian's background, but the sheer amount of vitriol that is spewed forth when she is mentioned is disturbing. With the way people react, you'd think she kicked your door down during breakfast, pissed in your cereal, and kicked your puppy for good measure on the way out. And this is why we can't have nice things. Anyway, talking about her is getting everyone off topic, and I'd hate to issue official actions. __________________

2013-04-18, 08:01	Link #136
bigdeal000 malefic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Nowhere, because I don't exist Age: 32	I just came back today to this thread after a while of not visiting it and I find a lot of deleted comments. At first I thought there's only a few but when they kept appearing I was like I'm waiting for my comment to be deleted because it's pointless too

2013-04-18, 09:08	Link #137
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	This is still a question yet unanswered: What are examples of how males and female should look like in a female based game. Its rather unfair if both a muscular guy and a pretty girl showing cleavage to be classified as a "guy" thing. What do girls want? Although few in existence, I know girls who enjoy the "guy games" as much as I do. Sometimes I can't help but to think: I don't like a lot of games out there, I am a woman, therefore there are no games designed for women. As a guy, there are a lot of games out there that really do not interest me at all. I am not a big fan of FPS, and I am still scratching my head over how they can make a new FIFA/NHL game every year.

2013-04-18, 10:37	Link #138
Ermes Marana Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007	It's funny that the OP mentioned Bayonetta as "made for men", since the opposite is true. Bayonetta was designed by a female character designer and made for women. She was given the super long limbs precisely to differentiate her from "eye candy" female characters and make her appeal to women.

2013-04-18, 11:00	Link #139
ArchmageXin Master of Coin Join Date: Mar 2008	Also to OP, here is the trick question. If you have a game feature a hot girl like Lightning from FF13 (she is clearly not an E-Cup model in bikini), and you say that is sexist. So lets choose an ugly heroine instead. You will lose the male audience, and you will lose a huge portion of female audience (Like my ex, who love to cosplay and said she can't stand playing an ugly girl when I asked her to dual Dwarves in WoW) So it is a lose lose situation for the dev. What now?