Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Miura is also a very probable candidate, as she was trained by the Worfenritter(by this point only Hayate is safe from this, good god, even Rein-chan has suffered from this).

...you just HAD to tempt fate, do you? Right when she's about to do something plot-important with her ability, even!

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Nanoha - Offense
Yuuno - Defense
Fate - Speed

Vivio is inheriting all of these

I just wish someone had inherited FLIGHT. I mean seriously, none of the StrikerS can fly? Had Hayate never thought that having someone flight-capable would be useful, if only to escort the helicopters? Must they always depend on Nanoha for air supremacy?

...well, that's one more point for Isis, I guess... If there's gonna be a new anime series using manga characters, she better be in it.

EDIT: Page claim for air mages!

[Nanya01]

Didn't Vivio fly in StrikerS?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

...you just HAD to tempt fate, do you? Right when she's about to do something plot-important with her ability, even!



I just wish someone had inherited FLIGHT. I mean seriously, none of the StrikerS can fly? Had Hayate never thought that having someone flight-capable would be useful, if only to escort the helicopters? Must they always depend on Nanoha for air supremacy?

...well, that's one more point for Isis, I guess... If there's gonna be a new anime series using manga characters, she better be in it.

EDIT: Page claim for air mages!

She did! Friedliche!

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Didn't Vivio fly in StrikerS?

Yes, she did.

[Satashi]

Vivid 17 was released by Payapaya for those who wanted a high quality, completely translated version

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

She did! Friedliche!

I meant Independent Flight like Nanoha and Fate, not the one that requires a summon; the kind that won't make you fall if your ride do a barrel roll. If anything, it's Erio using Jet Form that's the closest, but judging by how hard it is for him to maneuver with it back at StrikerS, that's not saying much.

Especially notable when compared to the dogfight between Nanoha and Fate at the Movie(I forgot how it went at the series).

Yes, she did.

That was back when she was boosted by a relic. If Vivid is any indication(the fight back at chapters 12-15), either she developed her own kind of Wing Road or she was just borrowing someone else's pre-made one.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

...you just HAD to tempt fate, do you? Right when she's about to do something plot-important with her ability, even!

Someone's catched that one, heh

Originally Posted by Kaijo

And I'd also say that Erio represents the "inheriting speed" factor, especially considering he has Fate's Sonic Move. Wonder if he'll get Sonic Form, too.

Fate: "Time to work on the last thing I can teach you!"
Erio: *blushing* "Do I really have to wear this bikini?"
Fate: "The less clothing you wear, the faster you can move!"
Caro: *extremely blushing* "...I agree."

Not that Erio need Sonic Form or something, he's already faster than Sonic Form Fate, and even able to land a hit only armed with Strada. If they give Erio a Sonic Form the kid will be able to travel in time xD.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Not that Erio need Sonic Form or something, he's already faster than Sonic Form Fate, and even able to land a hit only armed with Strada. If they give Erio a Sonic Form the kid will be able to travel in time xD.

Actually, I thought of something better.

Fate: "Caro, come out here; Erio just finished adapting one of my abilities! Go ahead, Erio, show her!"
Erio: *sighs* "Okay... Strada..."
Strada: "Barrier Jacket - Speedo Form"
Caro: *has a nosebleed and passes out*

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Actually, I thought of something better.

Fate: "Caro, come out here; Erio just finished adapting one of my abilities! Go ahead, Erio, show her!"
Erio: *sighs* "Okay... Strada..."
Strada: "Barrier Jacket - Speedo Form"
Caro: *has a nosebleed and passes out*

Narrator: And he's Erio Mondial! With his new Speedo Form he's able to reach a speed never believed by man.
Erio: Want to see me run to that mountain and back? (doesnt move) Want to see me do it again?

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Someone's catched that one, heh



Not that Erio need Sonic Form or something, he's already faster than Sonic Form Fate, and even able to land a hit only armed with Strada. If they give Erio a Sonic Form the kid will be able to travel in time xD.

Nanoha beat Fate, that doesn't make her faster.
Don't recall it ever saying Erio is faster than Fate. Erio can't even fly, can he?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Nanoha beat Fate, that doesn't make her faster.
Don't recall it ever saying Erio is faster than Fate. Erio can't even fly, can he?

I said faster, not versatile, he's awfully fast, but with Strada his movements are limited, being able to take down Fate when she's on "godlike speed" mode is beyond unveliebable. Yep, Nanoha beat Fate, when she was a youg mage who relies on Blitz Rush for high-speed maneuvers, a new fight between the two will probably be very hard, but maybe Nanoha can still be victorious by thinking wise her moves(like limiting Fate's mobility with her now vast array of variable range firepower spells).

Erio mondial...HE'S THE FASTEST THING ALIIIIVE!

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I said faster, not versatile, he's awfully fast, but with Strada his movements are limited, being able to take down Fate when she's on "godlike speed" mode is beyond unveliebable. Yep, Nanoha beat Fate, when she was a youg mage who relies on Blitz Rush for high-speed maneuvers, a new fight between the two will probably be very hard, but maybe Nanoha can still be victorious by thinking wise her moves(like limiting Fate's mobility with her now vast array of variable range firepower spells).

Erio mondial...HE'S THE FASTEST THING ALIIIIVE!

Except Vivids heavy reliance on fan-service is the only reason Tsuzuki bothered with Fate's transformation to Riot mode. They were even in her normal mode and the second Fate transforms her clothes are in pieces. Also, you can't disregard the factor of Fate being a little distracted by Nanoha charging SLB. That match is a bad indicator of who is faster.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Demi.

That match is a bad indicator of who is faster.

At least indicates who is the better fighter, Erio can be an Ace now.

[Demi.]

It's not a good indicator of that, either. You cant compare a game with a real fight. For instance, Erio was knocked out after hit with SLB. Fate took damage from Erio and SLB and still looked fine, aside from clothing damage.

It proved Erio has improved a lot since StrikerS, but trying to pull any other facts from a point system game isn't a fair gauge of ability.

In words you can comprehend - I don't think Cypha is stronger than Signum just because she won. And that one was a real fight. But even the better fighter wont always win if caught off guard, or is fighting under terms that doesn't let her use her full potential.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Demi.

It's not a good indicator of that, either. You cant compare a game with a real fight. For instance, Erio was knocked out after hit with SLB. Fate took damage from Erio and SLB and still looked fine, aside from clothing damage.

It proved Erio has improved a lot since StrikerS, but trying to pull any other facts from a point system game isn't a fair gauge of ability.

In words you can comprehend - I don't think Cypha is stronger than Signum just because she won. And that one was a real fight. But even the better fighter wont always win if caught off guard, or is fighting under terms that doesn't let her use her full potential.

Actually, the Cypha/Signum fight isn't a bad metaphor. Just like Cypha is using her haxx Eclipse powers ("Hah! I will now defeat you by letting you hit me until your weapon breaks!"), Nanoha, Fate, and possibly some of the others* are fighting under limiter effect in the ViVid skirmish (which offers a little input on the Nanoha/Ein engagement as well).

*I don't know how far down the list went, so I don't know about Tea, Subaru, Nove, Erio, Caro, and Lulu.

[00-Raiser]

Long story short: Fate fans will use any excuse they can think of to hand wave Fate losing to Erio.

[Demi.]

Basing Erio's superior strength to Fate off a game is no better than coming up for reasons to why a game shouldn't be a valid gauge of strength. It's worse, actually. >.>

Fate lost to Erio for certain in a regulated game with rules. That is not what I'm arguing.

Originally Posted by Devopenguin

Nanoha, Fate, and possibly some of the others* are fighting under limiter effect in the ViVid skirmish (which offers a little input on the Nanoha/Ein engagement as well).

There is that too, but didn't bring it up since I can't confirm who exactly was using the limiters aside from the obvious. If this was the case, I wouldn't have to bring up a debate as it would be stupid for anyone to disagree.

[Kaijo]

It's a manga, so it can be hard to sort out the exact same circumstances, but you either have to give the younger kids some credit for the shots they take at their elders, or you have to handwave the entire thing. It would mean saying, "Yeah, Ein getting hits on Nanoha was just luck or something, and Teana taking out the other team was just luck or something."

Try as I might, I can't see that. The only thing I could possibly grant is that the elders were under some sort of limiter effect to put them on an even power level. Regardless of fan service, Fate's Sonic Form was supposed to grant her speed to compete, and it's served her well against other opponents in the past. So regardless of anything else, that Erio could get hits on her when neither Signum nor Tre could (although the latter scored a nick), has to be commended.

Think of it this way: Fate and Nanoha have trained him well. And in a one-on-one fight with no limiters, Fate would still most likely beat Erio.

But completely dismissing his achievement here reeks of bad fanboy mojo.

[Demi.]

I don't dismiss his abilities, I dismiss Erio winning in a game as factual evidence of him being a faster and better fighter.

When Fate used Riot previous times it wasn't purely intended for a fan service device. Even ignoring that and saying Erio got that hit with skill, it still doesn't prove who is the better fighter. That's like saying boxer A is better and faster because he got the first hit on boxer B. Even if Fate's fully capable to still fight (which she was) the victor goes to Erio as he landed the first clear blow. And as I said before, Nanoha did interfere with that battle. When you have two mages with almost total reliance on speed, a split second can determine the victor. In this case, Nanoha charging STB was that instance. From what I remember, that was Nanoha's plan from the start. And it worked.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

I don't dismiss his abilities, I dismiss Erio winning in a game as factual evidence of him being a faster and better fighter.

And no one is saying that. A mage battle is dependent upon a large number of factors, which is why Nanoha and Chrono could beat Fate, and why an old woman beat Nanoha and Fate at the same time with barely a sweat. And as I said, in a true one-on-one fight, I'd lay my odds on Fate winning.

We just feel that Erio's successful attack on Fate shows that the kid is really good.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

And no one is saying that. A mage battle is dependent upon a large number of factors, which is why Nanoha and Chrono could beat Fate, and why an old woman beat Nanoha and Fate at the same time with barely a sweat. And as I said, in a true one-on-one fight, I'd lay my odds on Fate winning.

We just feel that Erio's successful attack on Fate shows that the kid is really good.

Well, I was only debating with those who were. But unless I misinterpreted what Akiyoshi was saying, I'm pretty sure he was.