US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Yu Ominae]

Interesting that Bachman's the winner. Heard she's a lot of things being in the Republican Party. Pro-guns and anti-abortion/gay and lesbian marriage since IIRC she's in an extreme group in the Republicans.

I'll wait and see what else her political views are before I judge her.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

Interesting that Bachman's the winner. Heard she's a lot of things being in the Republican Party. Pro-guns and anti-abortion/gay and lesbian marriage since IIRC she's in an extreme group in the Republicans.

I'll wait and see what else her political views are before I judge her.

She also tends to fail at history, does not know the constitution, fails at science, and is a gold mine of scary comedy as much as Sarah Palin was.

[Reckoner]

I hope she wins the nomination so we can just hand over the election to Obama. No way the country will vote for her in the end... At least I would hope not .

Not that Obama is doing a great job by any means (I still think it's too soon to evaluate his Presidency anyways), but I feel more safe with him than some of these crazies in the republican party.

[Kyuu]

By the way, I've been listening here almost every weekday (on my way home through the car radio). At times, I continue to listen via the Innernets.

http://www.normangoldman.com

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

I'll wait and see what else her political views are before I judge her.

She's been around in politics for a decade plus, so there's not much more that you need to know about her. Honestly, the fact that she started her political career on a PTA/School Board (I forget which) trying to get the Harry Potter books banned for teaching Witchcraft should tell you all that you need to know about Bachmann…

My greatest fear for Bachmann isn't that she will be nominated for President (she will lose the nomination, and even if she wins the nomination, she will still easily lose the race). No, my greatest fear is that whoever does receive the nomination will choose Bachmann as a Vice-Presidential candidate (the worst possible outcome would be a Perry-Bachmann ticket...I'm pretty sure that would be a clear sign of the Apocalypse (and not the warm fuzzy kind with Jesus, funny horses, and all that jazz)).

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I hope she wins the nomination so we can just hand over the election to Obama. No way the country will vote for her in the end... At least I would hope not .

Not that Obama is doing a great job by any means (I still think it's too soon to evaluate his Presidency anyways), but I feel more safe with him than some of these crazies in the republican party.

Sadly that's the only rallying cry we seem to have these days. "He is the lesser of two evils!" It may be true, but not very effective with people in general.

[Ithekro]

Well...unless the Democrats decide to throw in other contenders against Obama. There are still plenty of Democrats pissed that he beat Clinton in the primaries.

But there are also more people willing to have a minority male president than a female president of any sort. (Remember that the ERA failed to be passed by enough states to become an amendment to the Constitution).

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

OH HELL NO!!!!

There's that European mindset again.

You think the Koch Bros. T-Party is too popular now, just imagine what it would be like if a Democrat-Scocialist party was formed.

While I'd rather suggest Social Democrats as name, THAT would be no reason against it. Those people who are frothing at the mouth over "European Socialism" wouldn't vote for it anyway, so they're no loss.

Let me be blunt for a minute: One of the major problems in America is that around half of its population is boorishly ignorant of world matters. This half is simply believing the "Exceptionalist America best in everything" BS that is peddled by most of the Mass Media and are clueless about the world. If they knew that the richer half of Europe was doing just swell with every citizen simply being entitled to housing, food, education and healthcare, it might have an effect on the political situation in America, too. Instead, we have the absurd situation that what polls show the majority of Americans WANT is what they can't GET because the "if you want that we'd 'fail' like socialist Europe" propaganda runs unchecked. This is why America is third-world level in social policy, and falling behind more and more.

Ha, Rush Limbaugh's ratings would be astronomical.
Americans would flock to the right so fast it would make Hitler stand up in his grave!

Every formally democratic people has the goverment they deserve. Boorish ignorance, as I said. I could also imagine that if this kind of discussion was ever _truly_ initiated and the facts would be properly discussed in a free media, it COULD change some mindset on the other hand, too. You think that the people standing in line to get jobs or unemployment benefits could be persuaded to vote for proper social coverage? That they would kinda like proper healthcare? I think that many would.

Then again, America is the land where the MSM claim that Global Warming is just a theory (instead of the vast consensus of the scientific community), and where Intelligent Design is forced into schoolbooks. So, it's not unlikely that a proper discussion about social policy worldwide simply can't be properly led in America.

We have enough quacks, crackpots, and loons in our political system, don't encourage any more.

Makes no sense. If there are retards, try to educate them. Surrendering your country to one party of open corruption (GOP) where the politicians are openly bought to serve their uncaring elites' and corporations overlords, who live the "I got mine, screw you" to the fullest, and to one party of hypocrisy, where senators and house representatives pay lip service to the people until they're in office, when they turn into carbon copies of their GOP colleagues and merely get paid off by other corporations? That's the solution?

No, what I can see is simple. Those in America who are super-rich have won, they own the country. Those who are rich are desperately struggling to stay that way. Many of those who are wealthy are beginning to struggle and drop. The middle-class disintegrates in an increasing pace, lots of people who once lived and touted the American Dream are now waking up in the American Nightmare (and it's interesting and sad if you compare what they were writing 5 years ago compared to now). And if you've dropped below that, welcome to hell. Then you'd be better off in Greece than at home. But this truth must never become known.

[Malkuth]

Who cares?! Just go bankrupt

[Ithekro]

That might take a while...and take a lot of countries with it unless they managed to unwind the United States from the world economy.

It is or sort of "like it or not, what happens to the United States effects the planet" situation. Sort of like the fall of the British Empire effected the whole planet...just without all the loose former colonies all over the planets trying to figure out independance in the aftermath.

While the EU might survive it, I don't think they want China to fill in the United States' place in the world.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

If you don't care for either of the major parties, why should you care that you split their vote?

As I said before, elections are not a contest for the voters. There is no "reward" for voting in the winning side if you don't actually support their cause. You vote for who you want to win, not who you think can win.

But then, the wrong lizards might win.

That's the dilemma: vote for Bad and endorse them, or don't and let Worse win.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But then, the wrong lizards might win.

That's the dilemma: vote for Bad and endorse them, or don't and let Worse win.

This hardly matters in terms of the situation I address; that of a non-voter who don't want to vote third party.

If you never voted before, it didn't matter which lizard won. And if you suddenly vote third party, there would still not be any way for the wrong lizard to win. All USA needs is all the non-voters vote third party and the entire 2-party system implodes for the better.

As for myself, I voted third party in my country last time. The third party won balance of power and got massive concessions because the two major parties split 50:50. I didn't cause it directly, but enough people who think like me did cause it in unison.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Not that Obama is doing a great job by any means (I still think it's too soon to evaluate his Presidency anyways), but I feel more safe with him than some of these crazies in the republican party.

I think we've come to the point in our country's history where we need to stop evaluating the Presidency and putting all importance on it. It's been made quite clear that Congress is where the power truly lies, and if they don't want the President doing something, it's almost impossible for him to do it. The reverse can also be true. If enough of Congress wants something done, they can push it past the President's veto.

I guess I'm just venting that Congressional elections get pretty much no media attention outside of a few "key" places, similar to Presidential campaigning in a sense, I suppose.

Originally Posted by james0246

No, my greatest fear is that whoever does receive the nomination will choose Bachmann as a Vice-Presidential candidate

I dunno, it might be a good thing if you don't want them in office. I know a lot of people who refused to vote for McCain, who otherwise would, just because of how utterly stupid Palin is.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well...unless the Democrats decide to throw in other contenders against Obama. There are still plenty of Democrats pissed that he beat Clinton in the primaries.

History isn't my best subject, but has an incumbent President ever been usurped on the ballet by someone else in their party? Not because they had had enough, but because no one wanted them?

[monir]

Great thread James! *claps* I was devouring the Iowa Debate. I didn't have the fortune to watch it alive but thank the deuce for Tivo. Oh god, how I hope and pray the straw poll will reflect the mindset of the GOP who will nominate Michelle Bachmann as their candidate. Let's go Tea Party. Alas! James is more than likely correct when he said that Straw Poll is a farce at best for campaign donation. As I've listened to her talk I was giddy to say the least. She is the best. Except for Ron Paul, I was getting pretty agitated every time any other candidates were getting their turn to open up their pie hole to rob Michelle of her talk time. At one point for no apparent reason, I was reminded of her speech on the floor of Congress a few years back when she was educating us about the "harmless gas" called Carbon Di Oxide. I've been in love since then and thank the lord for CSPAN, the best channel for the daily dose of entertainment. The best part of that video is when draws a circle with her hands to indicate the roundness of a pie chart.

As for Ron Paul, well......., I'm a New Yorker. He gives it straight up. I like him. Now how far would he go if compared to his past runs? Considering the pool of candidates the GOP has in reserve for 2012, this might be his best chance to go far yet.

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by GDB

I think we've come to the point in our country's history where we need to stop evaluating the Presidency and putting all importance on it. It's been made quite clear that Congress is where the power truly lies, and if they don't want the President doing something, it's almost impossible for him to do it. The reverse can also be true. If enough of Congress wants something done, they can push it past the President's veto.

I guess I'm just venting that Congressional elections get pretty much no media attention outside of a few "key" places, similar to Presidential campaigning in a sense, I suppose.



I dunno, it might be a good thing if you don't want them in office. I know a lot of people who refused to vote for McCain, who otherwise would, just because of how utterly stupid Palin is.



History isn't my best subject, but has an incumbent President ever been usurped on the ballet by someone else in their party? Not because they had had enough, but because no one wanted them?

A few at absolute most. The only one I can remember off the top of my head is Franklin Pierce. Although I'm not clear what you mean by "had enough." You mean that they voluntarily would've dropped out?

I will be extremely surprised if it happens with Obama. And personally I think it's a bad idea. Splitting the base could lose the Dems the WH entirely. No matter what we think of him, Obama still does have a great number of supporters who will still vote for him.

[NameGoesHere]

Originally Posted by GDB

History isn't my best subject, but has an incumbent President ever been usurped on the ballet by someone else in their party? Not because they had had enough, but because no one wanted them?

Pierce. He won his election by 254-42 but managed to alienate his party.

Rant on.

Perry is a bleeping joke. Grew up in Texas. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, good to say about him. He is the quintessential empty suit, and I am horrified that somehow he is considered a lead Republican contender when every conservative I know (from Texas) hates his guts and calls him by derisive nicknames. The fact that anybody wants him to have a shot at the presidency is disgusting. Just goes to show that it's all for show, I guess...

Rant off.

(Voting for Ron Paul if he gets the nomination, otherwise my write-in will be Cthulhu, again.)

[ChainLegacy]

I'm happy Ron Paul was such a close second. I'm disgusted that his copy-cat, phony, transparent, uneducated, moron of a female colleague beat him. She's using HIS ideas to become popular, and she has that "charm" that Paul doesn't, thus instant popularity. I really hope her stupidity and lack of genuine belief in her movement expose her soon before this gets out of hand.

Apologize for the angry tone. Fakers using a popular movement to further their own ego tends to do that to me.

[synaesthetic]

Any idiot with eyes can see Bachmann is nothing like Ron Paul. She's not even remotely libertarian, what with her theocratic beliefs and desire to legislate biblical morality.

I guess the teabaggers are worse than idiots, then? Because if they should be supporting any candidate, it ought to be Ron Paul. He's the only one even close to libertarian out there.

As for me... depends how far Bachmann or Perry get. If they get one over on Romney, I will probably arse myself to go out and vote for Obama just to keep those two crazy zealots away from the Oval Office.

If it comes down to Romney vs. Obama... eh, either one. They're about the same, corporate shills and empty suits.

[ChainLegacy]

The average person is worse than an idiot. It all falls into place from there.

[synaesthetic]

So what can we do to smarten them all up? Or are we simply doomed to a future of idiocracy?