Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Discussion/Poll - Final Episodes!

[UltimaWolf]

Originally Posted by applejuice

I teared up, when I saw Homura using arrow and bow as weapon.

^ Yeah that was a really nice touch.

[synaesthetic]

Very strong finish to an already very strong series. I'm not joking when I opine that Puella Magi Madoka Magica has basically been the best thing out in the last two years.

There's not a lot I really want to say here right now, other than...

... how many of you guys pumped your fist in the air and went all FUCK YEAH!!! when Madoka owned the shit out of Kyubey with her wish?

Also I found it interesting how after God-Madoka changed everything up, Kyubey and the Incubators' relationship with humans ended up being a good and mutually-beneficial one. I wonder if Madoka tweaked things a bit in that direction herself... wouldn't be surprised, since she's basically Haruhi God now.

[Dawnbringerz]

Originally Posted by creb

*shrug* I don't speak Japanese, so I have to go off the subs, and while gg's subs would indicate that interpretation based off the conversation between Homura and QB near the end, it sure seems to fly in the face of Mami's statement in this episode after Sayaka chooses to kill herself (also gg's subs) that it is the Magical Girl's "hope [that] will bring misfortune to this world, and we must disappear before that happens.".

Watching a speed-sub sure has its downside.

Mami: それが魔法少女の運命よ。この力を手に入れた時から、分かっていたはずでしょう。希望を求めた因果は、この 世に呪いを齎す前に私たちはあやって消え去るしかない。
That is the fate of Magical Girls. We surely understood it ever since we obtained this power, right? The effect of requesting for a wish is none other than for us to disappear before we bring about curse to this world.

That "will bring misfortune to this world" part refers to MGs turning into witches, NOT MGs releasing anything bad.


I assume that the accumulated curse in all soul gems that is supposed to erupt and give birth to a witch just goes to Madoka who is trapped in her time paradox. The girls are then left with nothing, so they disappear.

In short, turning into a Magical Girl still create the same equal amount of curse, just that now the new universe has a bottomless Recycle Bin named Madoka.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by Marcomax

The idea of a Magical cave girl is possibly the most awesomely hilarious thing I've ever heard of.

Haha.

ME RIGHT WRONGS AND MEPUNISH ALL EVILZ

AND DAT MEANS U *monkey noises*

*transforms into furry overalls dyed pink*

UNGGA UGNGAA

[Shadow5YA]

I was in awe at Homura's performance for a variety of reasons. One was because of the grand scale. The other was because it made Mami's musket barrage look obsolete.

[taofd]

There are still some unanswered questions that I have:

What or who are these demons that appear?

Why did Homura have wings made of the same substance corrupted soulgems / witches are made from?

Who whispered "Ganbatte" to Homura at the end? I assume it is Madoka, but wasn''t she supposed to have disappeared?

Where is Homura at the end (some sort of desert)?

So Madoka has become the embodiment of hope, and has passed the "torch" to Homura...?

edit: Also, to those that scoffed at my theory that MS represented Hope and were the antithesis to despair (also that despair was the necessary requirement to becoming a witch), WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?

[Funkatron]

Okay, reeling from the epsiodes. Was it me or did Madoka, after removing the grief of every magical girl that ever was, save herself? as well. Is it safe to assume she no longer "exists" in the new timeline because she became a paradox? By asking for such a wish she became the patron saint of magical girls and then becomes the mother of all witches and then saved herself since she saves herself since that was her wish to begin with. She then writes herself out of existence since she becomes a paradox that transcends time and space. Wow, my mind is blown.

[Guardian Enzo]

Effectively, when you strip away all the elegant trapping and artifice attached to it, Madoka wished for more wishes. The Genius of the Lamp was smart enough to preclude that, but Inky either messed up in not doing so - or he didn't have the option.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Heh, I kept saying all along that a wish could fix everything. Kept getting people poo'poo'ing the idea, though. Which means, all of this could have been solved in episode 2... if the girls had acted smarter. Hell, if the Kyube's had been smarter. A plot that could truly only work and be stretched into 12 episodes if the characters were dumb as bricks.

I remember back arguing that Madoka's world-changing power was a very high possibly for doing the ending. Good thing we have God on our side to fix everything! Like I said, a wish and Madoka's power were all we needed.

Will wait for subs for further commentary.

You're mixing up plot details though. This whole series built a narrative around Madoka and how she would finally build the resolve and figure out a way to do things in the best way she sees. It wasn't until the ending episodes that Madoka figured out what she wanted to do based on all the information that was revealed, all the things she experienced, and seeing when the situation called for such extreme measures. Until Kyube showed us those visions for example, there was no reasonable way for Madoka to conceive of a wish of such broad scope.

Also, the other girls couldn't make a wish like Madoka, only Madoka herself could. Homura didn't even know she was that powerful and didn't even want MAdoka to die anyways so she wouldn't of liked the idea. Homura hence still tried to prevent Madoka from contracting thoguh she came close many times.

Originally Posted by Hagoshod

That doesn't solve the paradox. Kyubey follows Madoka around before the established reason for him to follow Madoka around kicks in.

And then there's the question of if she was a "normal" level Magical Girl before Homura ironically suped up her powers, how the hell was she able to defeat Walpurgisnacht by herself in the original timeline?

They never said she was normal originally. Just that she became exponentiationally more powerful after each timeline.

[U<3Anime]

Man, I just finished watching the finale and I don't really know what to say besides the fact that I had my jaw dropping for most of the time.


Also, Homura is the most F*CKING BADASS MAGICAL GIRL IN EXSITENCE. Rockets, rockets, rockets, and MORE ROCKETS, WAY TO GO GIRL!

[UltimaWolf]

Originally Posted by taofd

There are still some unanswered questions that I have:
Who whispered "Ganbatte" to Homura at the end? I assume it is Madoka, but wasn''t she supposed to have disappeared?

I'm almost positive it was Madoka, since they had such a strong bond and whatnot. Plus with Homu smiling after it was said, leads me to believe even more-so it was Madoka.

Originally Posted by U<3Anime

Also, Homura is the most F*CKING BADASS MAGICAL GIRL IN EXSITENCE. Rockets, rockets, rockets, and MORE ROCKETS, JESUS!

You got that right, Homu was awesome!

[kamo]

Originally Posted by Sackett

Mami was killed by a witch. Madoka wished to prevent all magical girls (in any time and place) from becoming a witch.

Thus no witch Charlotte to kill Mami.

I thought the part with them in episode 12 was from the previous timeline, where Mami killed Kyouko? (the background is the same) Then they are alive still?

So confused... but good ending.

edit: nevermind, it's the same as episode 9, but I didn't have it on my computer...

[Riga92]

Originally Posted by taofd

There are still some unanswered questions that I have.

What are these demons that appear?

Why did Homura have wings made of the same substance corrupted soulgems / witches are made from?

Who whispered "Ganbatte" to Homura at the end? I assume it is Madoka, but isn't she supposed to have disappeared?

Where is Homura at the end?

So Madoka has become the embodiment of hope, and has passed the "torch" to Homura...?

For your first question, I answered it in one of my earlier posts, but I'll say it again. Basically the demons are like witches except they are born from the negative emotions of ALL humans, not just Puella Magi.

The second question, it was never explained to us, but I'm guessing Madoka gave her those witch powers along with her bow and arrow magic.

The third question: Remember Homura's time traveling powers allow her to remember Madoka, and I think because of Homura's wish to always protect Madoka, this allows Madoka to always be with her.

And the last question: I also answered this in one of my earlier posts. We don't know for sure where Homura is. What I can infer from the episode though is that because the new system allows demons to always exist as long as humanity exists, I'm guessing after an unspecified amount of time, so much negative emotion accumulated in the world that it gave birth to too many demons that eventually brought an apocalypse, with Homura possibly being the only Puella Magi left standing.

[taofd]

Originally Posted by UltimaWolf

I'm almost positive it was Madoka, since they had such a strong bond and whatnot. Plus with Homu smiling after it was said, leads me to believe even more-so it was Madoka.


You got that right, Homu was awesome!

I dunno, that smile looked almost loopy. I was wondering if Homura went insane / Urobuchi was trolling us with some Cthulhu nonsense...

Originally Posted by Riga92

For your first question, I answered it in one of my earlier posts, but I'll say it again. Basically the demons are like witches except they are born from the negative emotions of ALL humans, not just Puella Magi.

The second question, it was never explained to us, but I'm guessing Madoka gave her those witch powers along with her bow and arrow magic.

The third question: Remember Homura's time traveling powers allow her to remember Madoka, and I think because of Homura's wish to always protect Madoka, this allows Madoka to always be with her.

And the last question: I also answered this in one of my earlier posts. We don't know for sure where Homura is. What I can infer from the episode though is that because the new system allows demons to always exist as long as humanity exists, I'm guessing after an unspecified amount of time, so much negative emotion accumulated in the world that it gave birth to too many demons that eventually brought an apocalypse, with Homura possibly being the only Puella Magi left standing.

Is this canon, or simply your conjecture? No insult intended, although I would like to know from an official source rather than just fan speculation.

[SaintessHeart]

Considering this episode is aired before Good Friday,

it seems that the ultimate sin is despair. And Madoka is trapped in limbo so she could be omniscient and absorb it from the girls whenever they lose hope and fall into despair, so the magical girls are her messengers?

And to think that it focuses on girls at the middle school age where their thoughts are often met with despair in the first times of their life, so the girls at the age are the epitome of purity, forever fighting against despair?

A sin so powerful that can fall even the purest (alluding to Lucifer and his followers who rallied behind him against God), it is shouldered entirely by Madoka herself, who will be there from the beginning to the end, making her the Alpha and the Omega.

Apparently :

Remember kids, Jesus Madoka died for our sins.

Our prophet is Homura, she is our leader and our Saviour.

Join the Church of Madoka now.

So who would like to say this in a church sermon and be dragged out?

[eplipswich]

Is this canon, or simply your conjecture? No insult intended, although I would like to know from an official source rather than just fan speculation.

The third question is very likely true. 1st thing is the voice is no doubt Madoka's voice. 2nd thing is if you recap the scene between Madoka and Homura before she disappeared that she assured Homura she can still contact her in the form of mind-talking. So Madoka is of course still existent within Homura's mind and consciousness.

for the demons, they are pretty much substitutes Madoka has conjured in exchange for witches.

Well, I can't exactly explain the rest. The rest are really speculation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, for me, I can't completely make head or tails over the ending, but it is possibly in a way good in terms of Madoka's perspective, but not good to the whole world. Still, Madoka's sacrifice is indeed noble, and I have to salute to that. The overall story was certainly great, with all the twists and turns and all, but I certainly feel the ending could have been done better. Oh, well. Blame the 12 episode limit.

I'm still impressed by the way the whole story and the ending turn out though so I voted for 10 ^_^

[pikachuwei]

someone make a church of madoka religion on FB now so i can join <3

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

Episode 11 was heartwrenching. I got teary-eyed seeing Homura confess to madoka about what she really meant to her. The whole episode was so good especially that moment when Homura’s SG is turning into a GS already. She had lost all hope at that time. But good thing, Madoka was there to save her! Madoka finally made me believe that she deserves to be this show’s main protagonist. =) how the scenes were played, not to mention when Madoka finally turned into MG, were breathtaking! Awesome as ever! XD The built-up of the emotions was very good. I never felt odd watching it. XD Aside from the emotional impact the episode brought, the battle scenes were amazing!! *bows down to Shaft’s might*

EPISODE 12 FTW!!
Damn, so awesome in so many effin levels!! It broke my best-anime-evah-meter!! LOL. It wasn’t a happy end but I am definitely fine how it all concluded.It seemed to me that Homura was turning into ‘something else’ as she spread huge but elegant black wings!! She looked, as always, BADASS!! Lol. And I agree to the other people who said that humanity went to extinction, and she’s the only one who remained. (kinda like EoE) I felt that the apocalyptic atmosphere around the epilogue never looked so out of place. *worships Gen Urobuchi* I love you man!! XDD

It’s just sad to know that Madoka’s wish kinda went in vain since, in spite of the witch system being erased, a new one took over. But atleast, the MGs don’t need to turn into witches anymore. Another thing is Madoka’s existence. T__T but the thought of Homura still remembering her is what really matters to me. I love that almost yuri scene btw. XDDDD MadoHomu FTW!!! XDD

Lastly, i’d like to say how much I love this show. I love it so much that I can die right now. My world is now complete. Huge thanks to Shaft’s team and all the people who had been working so hard to create such exceptionally excellent show!! Most importantly, ALL HAIL UROBUCHI!!!!! XDD YOU’RE THE BEST!!

EPISODE 11 and 12: since there’s no greater word to describe them other than perfect, i say, PERFECT!! T__T gah!! I’m criyng right now. I’ll nevr forget this show’s awesomeness.


MSMM FTFW!!!

[Riga92]

Originally Posted by taofd

Is this canon, or simply your conjecture? No insult intended, although I would like to know from an official source rather than just fan speculation.

It's just my own speculation but there's evidence that support my claims to the first, third, and last question.

The second question though I'm truly just guessing, we really weren't given any explanation.

[Kazu-kun]

Madoka to her mother: "I understand, I love you and papa too, I understand how much you care for me and I know I can't just sacrifice myself."

And then she went and sacrificed herself

Way to troll your mother, Madoka!!! Almost Urobuchi level. lol

Although, her mother kinda deserves it because only the most stupid mother of the whole universe would let her 14 years old daughter out in the middle of freaking typhoon (I think that's what the non-magicals thought Walpurgis was, right?), no matter the reason.

Really, from that moment on my suspension-disbelief went out of the window and I just couldn't bring myself to care about Madoka anymore.

Homura is great though. I love her to no end!!