Madan no Ou to Vanadis [Light Novel]

[saw2097]

Spoiler for Spoiler:

All of the characters have a grey sense of morality even Tigre has done morally questionable things at times and he is the most decent character in the series.

All of the Vanadis are stone cold killers and have a dark level of morality, so Valentina becoming a member of the harem is not out of the question yet. I doubt the author would end the series without all seven Vanadis at Tigre's side and there isn't anyone in the series to replace her and there isn't enough time left to introduce a character that can replace her.

Also Tigre still owes her a favor for helping against Greast so he may help her get off the hook for her actions at the end of the series.

[n0m@n]

It will be too forced if Valentina joins the harem or if other Vanadis forgives her tbh.
There wasn't even a single time where Valentina gained even a slight trust from any of the Vanadis. Even Tigre doesn't trust her even though he still thanks her for her help in v12/13. I would have had said otherwise if Valentina indeed that build the slightest trust with other characters. But the reality is that it didnt happen. I mean if Figneria is up for death flag then I don't see the reason why not for Valentina as well.
Figneria and Valentina are confirmed to be enemies by Kawaguchi in the afterword. For Kawaguchi, both of them are heroines (Means otherwise for others). And deaths of major characters will actually make the story more interesting.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by saw2097

Spoiler for Spoiler:

All of the characters have a grey sense of morality even Tigre has done morally questionable things at times and he is the most decent character in the series.

All of the Vanadis are stone cold killers and have a dark level of morality, so Valentina becoming a member of the harem is not out of the question yet. I doubt the author would end the series without all seven Vanadis at Tigre's side and there isn't anyone in the series to replace her and there isn't enough time left to introduce a character that can replace her.

Also Tigre still owes her a favor for helping against Greast so he may help her get off the hook for her actions at the end of the series.

It's been too long man, agreed.

Spoiler for for:

What do you think of the recent developments up to now?

Originally Posted by n0m@n

It will be too forced if Valentina joins the harem or if other Vanadis forgives her tbh.
There wasn't even a single time where Valentina gained even a slight trust from any of the Vanadis. Even Tigre doesn't trust her even though he still thanks her for her help in v12/13. I would have had said otherwise if Valentina indeed that build the slightest trust with other characters. But the reality is that it didnt happen. I mean if Figneria is up for death flag then I don't see the reason why not for Valentina as well.
Figneria and Valentina are confirmed to be enemies by Kawaguchi in the afterword. For Kawaguchi, both of them are heroines (Means otherwise for others). And deaths of major characters will actually make the story more interesting.

Fine has a death Flag because due to her current predicament, which is on a trajectory towards a fight with elen, there are literally 2 options for her character given the cover of this Volume, and death is one of them.

If tigre were keeping people alive because he trusts them, then he effectively has learned nothing from Lim's teachings. He doesn't trust Tallard but clearly views him as a necessary existence.

[saw2097]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

It's been too long man, agreed.

Spoiler for for:

What do you think of the recent developments up to now?

Not much, haven't been really keeping up with it.

Originally Posted by n0m@n

It will be too forced if Valentina joins the harem or if other Vanadis forgives her tbh.
There wasn't even a single time where Valentina gained even a slight trust from any of the Vanadis. Even Tigre doesn't trust her even though he still thanks her for her help in v12/13. I would have had said otherwise if Valentina indeed that build the slightest trust with other characters. But the reality is that it didnt happen. I mean if Figneria is up for death flag then I don't see the reason why not for Valentina as well.
Figneria and Valentina are confirmed to be enemies by Kawaguchi in the afterword. For Kawaguchi, both of them are heroines (Means otherwise for others). And deaths of major characters will actually make the story more interesting.

Spoiler for spoiler:

In other harem series I have seen villains who have done far worse join the harem.

I can see Fine getting killed off as Lim could easily replace her but the problem is that we have no replacement for Valentina and the author has dedicated so much time to showing all the harem flags for Valentina (except for actually falling in love with Tigre).

But I do suppose its possible that she will die and leave the last spot open.

Edit: A key thing to note is the author was very specific about noting that Valentina hasn't lost her Viralt, that has to mean something.

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

Fine has a death Flag because due to her current predicament, which is on a trajectory towards a fight with elen, there are literally 2 options for her character given the cover of this Volume, and death is one of them.

If tigre were keeping people alive because he trusts them, then he effectively has learned nothing from Lim's teachings. He doesn't trust Tallard but clearly views him as a necessary existence.

Yes, Fine has a death flag or atleast losing her Vilart due to volume 16 cover. We all know that.

It's just that Tigre is going to face Ganleon alone in the next volume. Other Vanadis has their hands full so I do wonder whose going to go to his aide. Though for Valentina, I'm hoping it's going to be Sophie stopping her. Their rivalry has started since their conversation in the early volumes. Sophie already finished her task of dealing with the rebel that was linked with Muozinel so she may make it in time when Valentina comes to the capital along with her army.

Originally Posted by saw2097

Spoiler for spoiler:

In other harem series I have seen villains who have done far worse join the harem.

I can see Fine getting killed off as Lim could easily replace her but the problem is that we have no replacement for Valentina and the author has dedicated so much time to showing all the harem flags for Valentina (except for actually falling in love with Tigre).

But I do suppose its possible that she will die and leave the last spot open.

Edit: A key thing to note is the author was very specific about noting that Valentina hasn't lost her Viralt, that has to mean something.

Spoiler for rep:

There's such harem-genre LN? Which one?

Fine will most likely be dealt with in the early part of volume 17 I guess since v16 ended halfway through Elen vs Fine and Lim intervened when Fine went for the kill towards Elen. Hmm, I don't think we really need to pay that much attention of needing 7 Vanadis by the end of the story. I mean it's been stated that there were many times in the history where there weren't full sets of Vanadis in a given time. If only there was a scene which has Valentina hold affection towards Tigre then I would have had a different opinion.

Viralt may perhaps something to do with the ambition of the wielder (that's something Fine presumed after talking with other Vanadis since she didnt know the reason for Bargren choosing her). Valetina was interested in power since before becoming a Vanadis. And if her ambition of taking the throne is what made Ezendeis choose Valentina then it won't go well for Valentina at the very end since her ambition will most likely be crumbled at the end of volume 17. So it feels like Ezendeis will abandon her soon as she gives up in her dream/ambition when she gets defeated.

About Valentina's death. This is something I'm hoping for because....I like deaths of important characters. We already saw the death of Sasha who was the wielder of Bargren. But seeing another death of Vanadis who wields a different Viralt would be much more interesting then seeing the death of another Bargren wielder (Fine). Though seeing someone who has been in the story from the start (Lim) becoming a Vanadis would also be an awesome stunt.

Speaking about the conversation between Tigre and Valentina in v16.

Spoiler for v16:

Valentina who was in disguise came to Tigre when he was with Gaspal and Gerard. He accepted her request of talking to her alone. But after the conversation, what the other Vanadis did to Tigre was....
Elen = Scolding him and calling him an idiot for his recklessness.
Mira = Gave him a cold stare and labelled his action as a no-no.
Liza = Was angry at him because he may have gotten hurt.
Orga = A light fist to his head.
And Sophie = An actual slap to his face. She was the one who was pissed the most at Tigre for his action. Who would ever thought that Sophie would do that.

Hence the reason why it must be Sophie vs Valentina once again

There was more info regarding info on the 3 TFN and such during Valentina and Ganelon's discussion.

Just to sum up what's happening at the end of v16 for each character (Tigre and Vanadis)

Spoiler for v16:

Tigre. Heading towards the place where he will meet Ganelon.
Elen. Currently engaging in a battle against Fine.
Mira. Had just stopped the Muozinel and won.
Sophie. Took care of the rebel and is done with her duty.
Liza. Went to stop Orglet's son and his army that is rebelling against the capital.
Fine. Currently in battle against Elen.
Tina. Heading towards the capital with her army.

[Chingaruna517]

Spoiler for Personal response to Tina and Fine villany.:

So many info here and I cant believe that Tina and Fine are now beyond redemption here. Makes me wonder if things coild have done differently had Fine rejecting Tina's cooperation.

[Marx-93]

Hum...

Spoiler for V16:

For what reason did Fine and Liza fight again? It doesn't seem to have been mentioned elsewhere?

Also, is there anything clear about Ruslan's state? You say he was nursed to health back by Valentina, but at the same time he is still too sick for anything.

Overall the political situation in Zchted seems fairly complex, but most of all Tigre actually seems like he has very few to do (which makes sense, given that as an emissary of Brune he can't just fight against Zchted nobles because he feeels like it). I'm looking forward to how it will develop in the final volume.

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by Chingaruna517

Spoiler for Personal response to Tina and Fine villany.:

So many info here and I cant believe that Tina and Fine are now beyond redemption here. Makes me wonder if things coild have done differently had Fine rejecting Tina's cooperation.

There's no doubt we have seen Valentina's true skin. Though for Figneria...

Spoiler for v16:

we still don't know what's going through her mind accurately yet. We seen Lim and Elen predict what her ambition is and it does certainly connect with the conversation Figneria had with Vissarion days. She also does ask Liza and Valentina if they have a ambition in v12. Though it feels like Figneria is also taunting/provoking Elen on purpose too. So it wouldn't be strange if she has another agenda and is revealed in the next volume. A mysterious character indeed.

Originally Posted by Marx-93

Hum...

Spoiler for V16:

For what reason did Fine and Liza fight again? It doesn't seem to have been mentioned elsewhere?

Also, is there anything clear about Ruslan's state? You say he was nursed to health back by Valentina, but at the same time he is still too sick for anything.

Overall the political situation in Zchted seems fairly complex, but most of all Tigre actually seems like he has very few to do (which makes sense, given that as an emissary of Brune he can't just fight against Zchted nobles because he feeels like it). I'm looking forward to how it will develop in the final volume.

Spoiler for v16:

Well, Fine attacked Liza because she's cooperating with Valentina. And Valentina deemed Liza is untrustworthy since her relation with Elen has changed compared to before. So even though Liza tried to act like their ally, it still failed. Tina told Liza to come to a certain meeting point. But only Fine was waiting for her and attacked her without any words.

Yeah, Ruslan was initially mentally sick for 8 years. Valentina nursed him back to health. But at the later half of v16 his health had gotten bad again where he was found fainted on his desk. He became friends with Tigre before this happened. And Tigre also realised how unstable Ruslan's memory has become since Ruslan talked about how long Tigre's name is, again. Ruslan forgot he had the same discussion before.

Again, yes. Tigre had nothing else to do while the Vanadis was away. He wasn't able to meet Ruslan as well since he was sick. Eugene was also super busy. That's when Ganelon left a note to Tigre where he threatened to kill Eugene if Tigre doesnt obey.

[DragonOsman]

@Noman: It's true that there were many times in the history of Zhcted kings where some or most Vanadis weren't united under the king, but with Tigre it should be different (he's going to become king of Zhcted, isn't he?). After all, he might be the second coming of the Black Dragon King and if that's really the case, he needs all 7 Vanadis under him.

You said the pacing was fast enough that it looks it can end nicely in Volume 17 (if I understood correctly). But what are the chances of us getting a sequel or a move to a different label? Nil?

Looking at the cover for Volume 16, Lim might be replacing Fine as the Vanadis of Bargren, but I wonder what'll happen to Tina. Kidstandout is right about there being other ways to punish someone than to simply kill them since killing would be too easy in some cases. Maybe we'll get something like that with Tina. If so, and if after she's gotten her come-uppance Esendeis still hasn't left her (if what someone else (maybe Noman, IIRC) said before about Esendeis only staying with Tina as long as she doesn't give up on her ambitions and whatnot), maybe she can be redeemed and swear allegiance completely to Tigre when he becomes king. Her relationship with the other Vanadis will still be bad, though, and Tige also may not trust her. So I think a new Vanadis, who can easily swear allegiance to Tigre, should replace her if there's time and if it's not good or possible for Tina herself to come under Tigre.

But Sofie slapping Tigre for having a talk with Tina did surprise me. I never would've thought she'd do that.

[n0m@n]

Something worse than death?
You mean like being a slave under Muozinel? That's the only treatment which is worse than death that I can think of lol. The fans will go on a outrage if that happens so it definitely won't happen haha (Though I would applaud Kawaguchi if he actually has the guts to do it since hot slave equals fu** toy). Again, Valentina's death is more of what I want it to happen rather than think will happen. Though in v14, the three representative of the port town in Brune who conspired with Greast in order to dethrone Regin...

Spoiler for v14:

was made a battle slave of Muozinel along with their family by Kreshu's hand when they tried to swear they royalty to them (Though the women were made as saleable slaves). It certainly was worse than death and was something much worse than I wished for.

Also about Tigre becoming a king.

Spoiler for king:

It's strongly hinted that Tigre will become the King of Brune and would accept Regin's proposal after all. About him becoming a King of Zhcted is more of fan wish/speculation at this point. Though that's something I wish to happen as well since they keep on referring about how hard it will be for Tigre to marry the current Vanadis. So becoming the king of Zhcted surely may become the solution of that hurdle.

And for Madan sequel in a different label....I wouldn't really put it as nil now lol. Something may be happening.

[DragonOsman]

I was trying to say the same thing Kidstandout said about Tina's punishment. It doesn't have to be death or slavery. Look at what happened to Liza (though what Tina did is much worse than what Liza did).

Tigre can still become king of both Zhcted and Brune somehow, can't he? Like by uniting them into the same country. And as the Madan no Ou, he does have to rule over Zhcted as well since the Madan no Ou lore is from Zhcted.

And we already know about that thing you put in the V14 spoiler tag (about the fate of the Brune nobles who tried to dethrone Regin). Wasn't that in V13?

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Many thanks for the spoilers, n0m@n!

By the way, what happened between Tigre and Mira?

[saw2097]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Yes, Fine has a death flag or atleast losing her Vilart due to volume 16 cover. We all know that.

It's just that Tigre is going to face Ganleon alone in the next volume. Other Vanadis has their hands full so I do wonder whose going to go to his aide. Though for Valentina, I'm hoping it's going to be Sophie stopping her. Their rivalry has started since their conversation in the early volumes. Sophie already finished her task of dealing with the rebel that was linked with Muozinel so she may make it in time when Valentina comes to the capital along with her army.

Spoiler for rep:

There's such harem-genre LN? Which one?

Fine will most likely be dealt with in the early part of volume 17 I guess since v16 ended halfway through Elen vs Fine and Lim intervened when Fine went for the kill towards Elen. Hmm, I don't think we really need to pay that much attention of needing 7 Vanadis by the end of the story. I mean it's been stated that there were many times in the history where there weren't full sets of Vanadis in a given time. If only there was a scene which has Valentina hold affection towards Tigre then I would have had a different opinion.

Viralt may perhaps something to do with the ambition of the wielder (that's something Fine presumed after talking with other Vanadis since she didnt know the reason for Bargren choosing her). Valetina was interested in power since before becoming a Vanadis. And if her ambition of taking the throne is what made Ezendeis choose Valentina then it won't go well for Valentina at the very end since her ambition will most likely be crumbled at the end of volume 17. So it feels like Ezendeis will abandon her soon as she gives up in her dream/ambition when she gets defeated.

About Valentina's death. This is something I'm hoping for because....I like deaths of important characters. We already saw the death of Sasha who was the wielder of Bargren. But seeing another death of Vanadis who wields a different Viralt would be much more interesting then seeing the death of another Bargren wielder (Fine). Though seeing someone who has been in the story from the start (Lim) becoming a Vanadis would also be an awesome stunt.

Speaking about the conversation between Tigre and Valentina in v16.

Spoiler for v16:

Valentina who was in disguise came to Tigre when he was with Gaspal and Gerard. He accepted her request of talking to her alone. But after the conversation, what the other Vanadis did to Tigre was....
Elen = Scolding him and calling him an idiot for his recklessness.
Mira = Gave him a cold stare and labelled his action as a no-no.
Liza = Was angry at him because he may have gotten hurt.
Orga = A light fist to his head.
And Sophie = An actual slap to his face. She was the one who was pissed the most at Tigre for his action. Who would ever thought that Sophie would do that.

Hence the reason why it must be Sophie vs Valentina once again

There was more info regarding info on the 3 TFN and such during Valentina and Ganelon's discussion.

Just to sum up what's happening at the end of v16 for each character (Tigre and Vanadis)

Spoiler for v16:

Tigre. Heading towards the place where he will meet Ganelon.
Elen. Currently engaging in a battle against Fine.
Mira. Had just stopped the Muozinel and won.
Sophie. Took care of the rebel and is done with her duty.
Liza. Went to stop Orglet's son and his army that is rebelling against the capital.
Fine. Currently in battle against Elen.
Tina. Heading towards the capital with her army.

Hybrid x Heart Magias Academy Ataraxia, in that series the love interests include characters that have tortured the MC and committed genocide.

Spoiler for Spoilers:

It is possible this series will end without a full set of Vanadis and that would leave room for a post series short story.

We will see either way in a couple of months, my current prediction is that Tigre loses to Ganelon and the Vanadis find out and have to work together to rescue him and help him defeat Ganelon.

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by saw2097

Hybrid x Heart Magias Academy Ataraxia, in that series the love interests include characters that have tortured the MC and committed genocide.

Spoiler for Spoilers:

It is possible this series will end without a full set of Vanadis and that would leave room for a post series short story.

We will see either way in a couple of months, my current prediction is that Tigre loses to Ganelon and the Vanadis find out and have to work together to rescue him and help him defeat Ganelon.

Spoiler for reply:

You think maybe Tina will also will help? Fine, too? Seems a bit too good to be true since Tina was helping Ganelon as well. I want Fine to turn over a leaf at some point, though. Fine seems to be doomed in terms of being a Vanadis if Lim is going to replace her (the question is "how and when?").

If it does end without a full set of Vanadis under Tigre, I'll be kind of peeved unless we get a sequel or short story continuation where that gets sorted out.

[Prongs]

We have Tsundere!!! We need Yandere member!!!

[DragonOsman]

No. Just, friggin' no. I hate yanderes.

[Prongs]

But I think Tina is Yandereneko..

[DragonOsman]

She doesn't even love Tigre yet.

And if the one you're calling a tsundere harem member is Mira, I'm thinking that'll change. She might mellow out.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

She doesn't even love Tigre yet.

And if the one you're calling a tsundere harem member is Mira, I'm thinking that'll change. She might mellow out.

I don't think so since she's already being doctrined by her family's legacy for that so se's best suited as Tsundere ones.

Spoiler for Tir Na Fal Involvement:

Anyone may expect what if Tir Na Fal decide to use Ezendeis in case Valentina was either disqualified or killed?

Since Ezendeis weapon type is a Grim Reaper, it makes sense if she wield it.

Spoiler for Asvarre possible assault:

I also think that Tallard can send either Kressdill or Valid Ludra to invade Legnica or Lebus at this point as well even he was occupied with Asvarre-Sachstein War but the author was not detailed on who participated on it since the condition now is stalemate at the borders of Asvarre and Sachstein.

Also i assume that Tallard may also lead the attack by himself as well since Sofy is aware of him which i can suspect that he may take this chance to command Asvarre Army that was not stationed at the borders to attack Zhcted from the north.

[DragonOsman]

Mira can still mellow out, though. I'm hopeful.

By the way, I was just thinking. Tina's already gotten all of the flags for becoming a harem member, so it'd be good if she can join. And don't worry, what I'm thinking of here doesn't require her getting along with any of the other Vanadis. Hear me out: She's the Vanadis wielding the Viralt of Darkness and Esendeis itself also chose her while knowing about her ambitions already, right? What if the true role of the Void Vanadis is meant to be to serve the Madan no Ou through the shadows, as part of the kingdom's darkness? If it's like that, she doesn't need to be redeemed or anything, nor does she actually have to get along with any of the Vanadis (though they may have to work together at times, like wars and such, which could be hard after Volume 16). She just needs to swear fealty to Tigre, which may happen if he shows her something of his power that makes her kneel in front of him. A dark power or something. Since Tigre is like a prophet or something for Tir na Fal as the Madan no Ou, showing Tina a great darkness or some other kind of power that would make her submit shouldn't be that hard once he's mastered the Black Bow's power. I wonder if she can't just fall in love with him, though. Like I said, all of the other stuff to trigger flags for her joining the harem has already happened. They haven't happened with all of them, though, like Olga. But most of the older ones got it. So maybe it can happen.

Tigre as the Madan no Ou should become king of Zhcted. I really think this should happen because there's no one else good enough to rule Zhcted now. And I don't think it should be given to Tina. The Madan no Ou lore originates from a time much earlier than the founding of Zhcted Kingdom, but because the man who founded it was a Madan no Ou himself, one could say that the founding of Zhcted Kingdom and the Madan no Ou lore are connected. In a way, the Madan no Ou lore is related to Zhcted. Not to Brune. And I think Tigre can just unite the two countries into one after he becomes king of Zhcted, anyway.

I don't think Tir na Fal would wield a Viralt. Seems unlikely. Tir na Fal is the goddess guiding the Madan no Ou, she can't become his subordinate (the Vanadis are supposed to serve the Madan no Ou when he becomes king of Zhcted, right?).