(L) Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate (Love, Election, and Chocolate)

[Guardian Enzo]

It seems to me that it all comes down to a question of time. Though there are exceptions I'm not a huge fan of the omnibus format, and I don't think the issues with KoiChoco are an indication that it needed to go that route. What it boils down to is that for one cour, the Chisato route probably wasn't the best choice - at least not if you're going to try and do justice to any of the supporting cast as characters if not romantic leads. There's so much baggage with Chisato that if the story was going to settle on her, it probably needed two cours.

OTOH, with Satsuki, I think a very effective route could have been written for one cour - indeed, about two-thirds of it was. A romantic route with Satsuki is much more straightforward than a Chisato route, and better suited for a short series.

[kobester11]

Just saw the finale, and it's quite average...
Not good or great, just okay...and I thought this show is good at surprises <_<

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

OTOH, with Satsuki, I think a very effective route could have been written for one cour - indeed, about two-thirds of it was. A romantic route with Satsuki is much more straightforward than a Chisato route, and better suited for a short series.

Yeah, I agree with you. A SuperRoute with Satsuki as the "winner" would have provided the smoothest ride, imo.

I think eroge adaptations sometimes fall into the trap of trying to please every heroine's fanbase, and it just makes for a messy story if you're going with unified format.

I'm not saying that either heroine should be entirely forgotten (I'm honestly Ok with the added Michiru focus from the latest episode, for example), but it's fine if some/most are never portrayed as more than the male lead's friends in the anime.

[Dorsai]

Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate may have been better off never leading people on with the extensive Satsuki bits - It got people's hopes up, and it also meant that time that could have been devoted to developing Chisato/Oojima was spent elsewhere.

Hm but creators really not spent a lot of time on Satsuki/Yuuki interactions... And there never was anything more then innocent flirt. Her route never really started. And in the end student council prez explained what Yuuki was looking for in Satsuki... Their interactions was improtant part to understand why he is acting like this with Chisato...

And really how much time it would give them from cutting it from show? 5,10 minutes? Its not enough to change anything in Chisato route...

Average series... Hmm yes, but except for SAO and Binbougami ga! every series in this season is average...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Hm but creators really not spent a lot of time on Satsuki/Yuuki interactions... And there never was anything more then innocent flirt. Her route never really started. And in the end student council prez explained what Yuuki was looking for in Satsuki... Their interactions was improtant part to understand why he is acting like this with Chisato...

And really how much time it would give them from cutting it from show? 5,10 minutes? Its not enough to change anything in Chisato route...

Average series... Hmm yes, but except for SAO and Binbougami ga! every series in this season is average...

"Her route never really started" ...
Actually the anime did start it, but it never went further than the beginning.

Also the last episode was less than satisfying for me.

[Dorsai]

Yes its just started and never went further, but before episode 10 most viewers still hoped that she will win in the end and whole rage started after this episode when it was clear that will never hapen. How could creators make believable and fitting Satsuki route in just 3 episodes when there is still council election and Chisato problem in the air? How could anyone still hoped for it and be ok with it, even though outcome would be a lot worser then what we got here?

Only way for Satsuki route would be rewriting whole anime from episode 1...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Only way for Satsuki route would be rewriting whole anime from episode 1...

Please don't make silly comments thinking that Satsuki would never been an option since the first episode, because it was not clear for anyone (including who have played the game) that the anime would choose Chisato from the beginning.

[Dorsai]

Hm from begining i was writing here about hints suggesting that Chisato is the one Yuuki loved... And i never played game. I didnt said Satsuki route was completely impossible, they could still make it till her arc end, but without rewriting whole series it would be really messy solution. There is too much in the air between Chisato and Yuuki from begining then just jumping into another girl wouldnt be right without some time for all of them and a lot of episodes...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Hm from begining i was writing here about hints suggesting that Chisato is the one Yuuki loved... And i never played game. I didnt said Satsuki route was completely impossible, they could still make it till her arc end, but without rewriting whole series it would be really messy solution. There is too much in the air between Chisato and Yuuki from begining then just jumping into another girl wouldnt be right without some time for all of them and a lot of episodes...

The flashback between Chisato and Yuuki was not a definite proof that the anime was picking Chisato from the start.
Romance animes tend to have red herrings that mislead the viewer. It was not clear back then which clues were real and which ones were "fake".

Spoiler for example of an anime in which flashbacks were red herrings:

Hoshizora kakaru e hashi had multiple flashback moments at the beginning of the episodes of Kazuma and Madoka when they were little, but she did not end up being choosen.

[MisaoFan]

Spoiler for Episode 12 (End) + Review :

As the final election day comes, Yuki prepares a grand chase to save Chisato. We later finds out that Yuina, the grey-haired foe, is the one who kidnapped Chisato. Many twists within the election also happens, and Yuki comes with a somewhat forced (due to him being late) yet interesting argument that impresses most people with a change. The show ends with Yuuki and Chisato praying for Daiki's graveyard before kissing each other by sharing a chocolate. When I first watched it, I thought it was a nice slice of life focusing on elections and romance, but as the politics plays a major role in the later episodes, I was hooked. The designs are great and helped the story to fix some of its flaws. Plus the characters are interesting even though some of them doesn't have enough screentime and/or character development, and the drama doesn't feel too forced (even though it was strong in the last two episodes before this one) as I thought. A good romance series that I'll recommend to anyone who's into harems and romantic comedies.

[Midonin]

Spoiler for KoiChoco 12 - KCH ~Koi to Chocolate to Gakuen to:

So the finale went into a high-tension race against time, with Yuina being revealed as the culprit from the first episode, with the election going on at the same time. Not quite on the level of Oda Nobuna, but it still felt very theatrical. A VN can be so when the tension is ramped high enough.

My favorite parts of the show were... Nozomi, Ai, Kii and the scenes with the Food Club in general. The Food Club may have been a bunch of goofs with an ill-defined club purpose, but I loved that bunch of goofs. Nozomi's inventions were pretty radical, I can see why she was chosen for the new route in the PSP game. Isara and Michiru were pretty nice, too. And I enjoyed the Madoka cosplay in the middle of the series, even if we were deprived of seeing Mifuyu dress up as Mami, which the universe deems to be 100% appropriate.

The drama wasn't bad, and the politics were done in a pretty interesting fashion, it's something I haven't seen much in anime before. Focusing primarily on the election was one of the best things the series could've done, and so it did. As VN series go, it was well done, but I'm looking forward to the show that takes over its timeslot far, far, far more.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

There is too much in the air between Chisato and Yuuki from begining then just jumping into another girl wouldnt be right without some time for all of them and a lot of episodes...

It actually wouldn't have been that hard. You're right of course that there was too much in the air for it to be ignored. But pretty much everything could have developed in a very similar way if Yuuki had fallen in love with someone else, and then had to go through the process of helping Chisato let go and becoming healthy without him. It would have been a slightly different story, of course, but quite possible to tell even with the hints that were given. I think it could also have been accomplished in the same number of episodes as we got.


In other unrelated news, the Koichoco website did update to show that the 7th volume will include a 13th episode, but no information on what that'll be yet.

[Dorsai]

Lol but in this anime all clues are only about Chisato/Yuuki relationship. With rest of girls there is nothing, even with Satsuki ts just innocent flirt... There is no place to think which clues are fake and which are true when development with others girls from their routes wasnt included in this anime.

You still treat sth like flashback like just mere flag, lol you are not playing there game called KoiCho, but anime adaptation... What important is not just fact that flashbacks are there, but creators vision and how they are connected to rest of story. And the one used in this anime are different then usual boring scheme like mariagge/love promise etc... Two kids just holding their hands on sb weeding day, not understanding what that really means is a lot better on emotional level, then just next childhood promise...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Lol but in this anime all clues are only about Chisato/Yuuki relationship. With rest of girls there is nothing, even with Satsuki ts just innocent flirt... There is no place to think which clues are fake and which are true when development with others girls from their routes wasnt included in this anime.

That is very easy to say in retrospect. Eventhough i was skeptical about a Satsuki outcome when i was speculating in the games forum, i didn't count Satsuki out untill episode 8 or 9.

Originally Posted by Dorsai

You still treat sth like flashback like just mere flag, lol you are not playing there game called KoiCho, but anime adaptation... What important is not just fact that flashbacks are there, but creators vision and how they are connected to rest of story. And the one used in this anime are different then usual boring scheme like mariagge/love promise etc... Two kids just holding their hands on sb weeding day, not understanding what that really means is a lot better on emotional level, then just next childhood promise...

I never treated the flashback as a flag, because it also was in the intro of the game.
I only said that you should not take every flashback that you see as definite proof, because there were some series that had flashbacks of the main character in their childhood but those ended up not being used for that purpose.

edit: overall i don't have any problems with Chisato, but what did bother me was how the anime handled the story that lead to Chisato.

[Dorsai]

And when did i said that i treat flashback this way? From begining, even after episode 1 i was writing that childhood flashback in this anime are different then every flashback i saw in anime/manga romances until now.

Relentlessflame like i said it could be possible, even with hints (though without rewriting whole story it would be never more then just little above then average story), but developtment in their relationship should start in at least halfway. After 9 episodes it was already too late... And whole Chisato situation should start a lot earlier in that case. Magically healing her and moving in her life was rushed, but with Satsuki route it would be even less believable... And skip time would really be good solution....Two episodes earlier and it could be ok...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

And when did i said that i treat flashback this way? From begining, even after episode 1 i was writing that childhood flashback in this anime are different then every flashback i saw in anime/manga romances until now.

Relentlessflame like i said it could be possible, even with hints (though without rewriting whole story it would be never more then just little above then average story), but developtment in their relationship should start in at least halfway. After 9 episodes it was already too late... And whole Chisato situation should start a lot earlier in that case. Magically healing her and moving in her life was rushed, but with Satsuki route it would be even less believable... And skip time would really be good solution....Two episodes earlier and it could be ok...

You believe that it was not possible with Satsuki's route, however i think it was still possible. The thing is that the whole chocolate problem was not that much of a problem untill Yuuki was nearly run over and retriggered Chisato's trauma.

Spoiler for spoiler:

which only happened in Chisato's route

If the anime would have picked Satsuki from the start then obviously this development would have been skipped in favor for other ones, which leads to other options of curing Chisato's trauma.

[Dorsai]

It was because her problem was sealed deeply in her heart, because of Yuuki actions in their childhood... But that not means that you can treat like it not exist. I said you few times already that its not game, but anime adaptation... A lot of eroge/visual games have holes, beucase its really hard/ almost impossible to fuse few different routes into one without creating some. In game its not usually big deal, but in anime making super route isnt sth easy to accomplish. If sth was ok in game it not means it will be still ok in anime...

Even if Satsuki would be picked from start- Chisato problem should be taken seriously. Without dealing with it properly there is no way Yuuki could move in his life, even with another girl. It would affect all his future relationships with girls in his life...

[hyl]

It's not that i don't treat as if i don't exists, it's that those problems weren't shown untill the last 3 or 4 episodes what makes it bad. You can easily say now that Yuuki kept his feelings for Chisato hidden, but at the same time it was also possible he didn't had any feelings for her.

You are satisfied that Chisato was choosen, but that doesn't mean that i am satisfied how the story was handled.

Also you are using the excuse that i know more about Koichoco (because i have played the original) as a means to not accept other options or outcomes because of your own bias towards Chisato.

[Zeris]

Spoiler for Ending Spoiler:

Their first kiss was in front of her brother's grave......

This is one of the most disturbing relationships I've seen in a "normal" themed anime to date. I regret not dropping this two episodes ago. I didn't find any of the scenes between Chisato and Yuuki even remotely romantic. It may be different in the game, but the anime version by itself, is just a complete mess.

This was the last episode right? I'm so annoyed/disturbed by that scene in my spoiler I don't even want a bonus fan-service episode.

[Dorsai]

hyl you can just reread my post in this thread, i was writing about Yuuki psychological problem involving his behavior and interactions with Chisato since bath scene... And about his hidden feelings toward her even earlier...

Omg its quite opposite, fact that you played the game is more bother for you to understand creators vision in this anime then help. You still dont get it that its not game, but game adaptation and arguments comes from game only means nothing in this anime....