(PC) RPG games

[-KarumA-]

I'm looking for some good RPG games, not anything online like WoW or Aion but offline. Here's a list of games I've played in the past:

Morrowing (with expansions)
Oblivion
Fall out 3
Dragon Age
Neverwinter nights 2
Borderlands (if it counts)

I tried The Witcher, but the game was affecting my performance too much so I ended up uninstalling it.
Other notes: I don't like games that are too old, Morrowind was alright back when I played it but I didn't like playing Neverwinter nights 2 cause of the controls and graphics (camera rotation was a complete ass).
I want a game with a good story and with perhaps a character creation function and classes. Thank you very much for responding

[Scorch]

I'm not sure if you'd consider it too old or not, but Planescape: Torment has the best rpg story ever. The main character is an immortal amnesiac with instructions to himself carved into his body. As he attempts to learn about himself, he gains various interesting companions. Included are a flying skull who hits on women zombies (you can poke fun at him for not having a body), a mage who likes fire so much that he became a living conduit for the plane of fire himself and is permanently on fire, a chaste succubus, and several other interesting characters.

The great thing about PST is that you aren't pigeonholed. In most rpgs, you have to be a good guy, even if you choose a supposedly evil alignment. PST lets you be really evil if you want to, or be saintly, or just completely insane if you want to. The main character can switch between a fighter, a mage, and a thief. There's actually only two required fights in the game - you can talk or sneak your way out of the others if you wish to. The world has what can more or less be described as consensus reality - at one point you even find out that the main character killed someone by convincing him that he didn't exist in a logical argument.

[TCman]

Yes, I agree that Planescape: Torment is one of the best rpg games that ever has come out for the PC.

Well, I can recommend first two Fallout games, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 + expansion Throne of Bhaal. Also Icewind Dale series are also quite okay. You can also try out the Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic 1 & 2.

Furthermore there's the Gothic series which are in my opinion quite good, but they mostly are plagues by bugs and glitches. But again, I thought there are unofficial patches for the games (Gothic 1 - 3) made by the community which make the games play much and much better, while there are texture mods which make the games look even sharper than the original ones.

[Cryonosis]

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines is a fantastic rpg, make sure to install Wesps unofficial patch though.

I'll also add in Mass Effect since I haven't seen it mentioned yet.

[Kafriel]

Icewind Dale II if you're into the old D&D stuff
The summoner
Anachronox
Gothic I-II-III
You may want to try out Disciples II, it's a bit strange but quite good (though not exactly RPG but turn-based strategy). If you like it, check out Age of Wonders II too.
For character creation+classes, check out Wizardry, it's popular although it's not in my taste.

[synaesthetic]

Deus Ex. 'Nuff said.

[micheut]

I'll second Mass Effect. If you like Dragon Age you like Mass Effect though it's not the same atmosphere.
I'll also second the Baldur's gate series.
You didn't mention Diablo, is that to old for you? it is amazing.

The Last Remnant does not fit in your list, but since this is Animesuki I thought a neat JRPG could enhance your list. The Last Remnant was ok on the Xbox but when it came to the PC they've fished out all the bugs and made a nice and polished game with dozens of hours to play. Mind you, it is a classic (but with 2009 graphics) JRPG and is turn based. You'll have to like that. But at least check it out on youtube. The graphics are amazing.

[synaesthetic]

If you don't like games that are too old, the number of good PC RPGs you can find becomes incredibly limited.

PC gaming has been on the decline for years; the golden age of PC gaming was in the late 90s and early 2000s. So "good," "old" and "PC RPG" all tend to appear in the same sentence quite often.

Get over the childish "waaaah this game has bad graphics waaaah."

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graphics.

Always.

[QED]

Someone mentioned Baldur's Gate and I have to second (or third, or whatever we're up to) that. It's old but still considered one of the best "classic fantasy" rpgs ever.

@synaesthetic

While I completely agree that graphics are much less important than gameplay, it's a bit hasty to just disregard them. There's just something instinctually satisfying about good graphics, and try as we might, it's hard to argue against the idea that graphics have really become part of the experience. We just get immersed into a game more easily if it's pretty. I'm not suggesting that everyone become graphic nuts, but I don't really hold it against a person if poor graphics become an issue.

[synaesthetic]

The problem with that stance is that, especially with role playing games, when graphics are the focus, gameplay almost always suffers.

Developers have budgetary and time constraints; producing quality content of any type is expensive. When graphics are made a priority, gameplay and story often suffer.

For example, take The Elder Scrolls. In Arena and Daggerfall, two games made quite a while ago, there is a great deal more explorable area than the two later games. The graphics are simpler by necessity--hardware couldn't support anything much better at the time, thus the developers were forced to emphasize gameplay.

Morrowind and Oblivion saw a massive multi-generational graphical improvement, but the reduction in actual content and explorable area shrank considerably. Comparing Oblivion to Arena, a tiny section of Arena's game world is Oblivion's entire game world.

As graphics become more of a priority and selling point, gameplay, length of play, storyline and quality of writing often suffer. This is doubly important now that PC RPGs have been on the decline for quite some time--most of the time, we get console ports these days. What remaining few PC RPGs that are left don't seem to be holding to the same gameplay and story standards of games from the golden age of PC RPGs--the late 90s and early 2000s.

tl;dr version: Black Isle died because Interplay was stupid, now there are no good PC RPGs except The Witcher.

[QED]

@synaesethetic

I'm not sure if your point there is well supported. You seem to be saying that due to increased expectations for graphics, game length and amount of content are reduced. I agree with that, but I'm not seeing how this translates to a reduction in the **quality** of a game. And honestly, I'm not convinced that rpgs are taking quality dips as of late.

I do think that recent rpgs have begun to emphasize immersion and environment rather than novel or clever plotlines, which can be attributed to increased capabilities of hardware, but it's by no means obvious to me that this change is bad; rather, rpgs nowadays are just different. Perhaps we are biased towards older games due to nostalgia, but to me, newer games can still hold a candle to the older "classics." At least, I've been given no reason to think otherwise.

In order to actually get anywhere with this line of discussion, it's necessary to first establish a set of things that we consider "good" in rpgs. That's easier said than done, since a lot of things that are arguably "good" are also pretty contradictory (for example, having an "complex, well-developed" protagonist as opposed to a "customizeable" protagonist).

[Cryonosis]

While I don't agree that PC gaming as a whole is declining, I would say that the golden age of RPGs has come and gone. There's really nothing like the Classic Ultima Series anymore, me and many others still play Ultima 7 to this day because it was such a genre defining piece.

I do agree that not wanting to look at older RPGs really limits choices, but they are still out there. I gave a couple earlier as well as others.

[Momosan]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Get over the childish "waaaah this game has bad graphics waaaah."

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graphics.

Always.

Save for space

Spoiler for About graphics:

Incorrect. There is definitely a correlation between game quality and graphics. The BEST games will always have good graphics. Graphics are simply one aspect of many which are required to make a GOOD game. Solid gameplay/plot without good graphics can make a good game, but not the best. Graphics are also the most expensive/time consuming parts of the development process so it's easy to tell how much money a game is expected to make by looking at the graphics. Good games make more money.

For example, Final Fantasy since 6 has always emphasized having MUCH better graphics than other RPGs. They don't necessarily sacrifice other aspects of the game, but instead just promote high levels of quality across the board. This is why FF is considered to be one of the best RPG franchises.

I agree in the sense that plot/gameplay is more important than graphics as a foundation, but graphics build immersion and set the tone better than text ever can. As such it's just as important to making the best games.

On Topic: I recommend The Last Remnant if you're a SE fan. Better than average plot, lush graphics, wide variety of content and customizability when constructing parties.

If you want more DnD style RPGs. Baldur's Gate 2 is widely considered to be the defining DnD/Dungeon Crawl RPG ever created.

[Azuma Denton]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The problem with that stance is that, especially with role playing games, when graphics are the focus, gameplay almost always suffers.

Developers have budgetary and time constraints; producing quality content of any type is expensive. When graphics are made a priority, gameplay and story often suffer.

For example, take The Elder Scrolls. In Arena and Daggerfall, two games made quite a while ago, there is a great deal more explorable area than the two later games. The graphics are simpler by necessity--hardware couldn't support anything much better at the time, thus the developers were forced to emphasize gameplay.

Morrowind and Oblivion saw a massive multi-generational graphical improvement, but the reduction in actual content and explorable area shrank considerably. Comparing Oblivion to Arena, a tiny section of Arena's game world is Oblivion's entire game world.

As graphics become more of a priority and selling point, gameplay, length of play, storyline and quality of writing often suffer. This is doubly important now that PC RPGs have been on the decline for quite some time--most of the time, we get console ports these days. What remaining few PC RPGs that are left don't seem to be holding to the same gameplay and story standards of games from the golden age of PC RPGs--the late 90s and early 2000s.

tl;dr version: Black Isle died because Interplay was stupid, now there are no good PC RPGs except The Witcher.

Couldn't agree more...

I never played Arena before.
But comparing Morrowind and Oblivion. Obviously (no pun intended), Morrowind is far more superior and enjoyable than Oblivion.

@-Karuma-
RPG??
Why dont you try Diablo series again?


As for gameplay and graphics discussion...
Lemme ask something.
Are you guys playing games or are you guys watching games?
It is not graphics not important. But remember the priority. Should gameplay be sacrificed in order of to apply a lil bit more smooth graphics?

Call me an old timer, but i still played Starcraft nowadays eventhough there are many RTS with more advanced graphics nowadays.

Sory for OOT...

[Albafica]

Baldur's Gate I and II are old, but they are masterpieces! You must play these games, they are awesome! You will not be disappointed in my opinion.
I don't like Neverwinter, but Baldur's have a "graphic' touch", the atmosphere is great, the story is cool, fights are hard but epic, quests are really interesting!

And Baldur's Gate' city is incredible.

[Zenemis]

Might and Magic 3 - 7 are pretty good, IMHO it declined after that, and 1 and 2 suffer playability issues.

[Irenicus]

PC RPG recommendations, huh...

I'll just second everybody in this thread then:

Vampire: Bloodlines is an astonishing game. Brilliant, dark, sexy, and downright scary at times. The unofficial patches are absolutely required, however. The company folded before they could patch it up properly.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel KOTOR 2 are the best things to have come out of that franchise in years. Nothing compare, especially not the shitty prequels. The first one is a classic Star Wars story done right with an "I am your father" moment to break your mind, while the second deconstructs the fallacies of the Star Wars universe right out. Do install the TSLRCP restoration project for KOTOR 2 right away, since the second game wasn't rightfully finished thanks to LucasArts' dick move.

Deus Ex. A futuristic action RPG thing...and one of the best games ever made, according to a whole bunch of critics. I would agree with them. It's got a great story, excellent mechanics, and better combat than most RPGs out there.

Mass Effect is, together with Dragon Age which you've played, one of the hottest new RPG franchises out there. I haven't played it yet because my computer isn't up for it, but since everybody loves it -- and the famous Bioware made it -- it's probably good.

Fable is an RPG by Peter Molyneux. It's a fun little game, but not as good as the greats recommended here. Still, it might be worth it for passing the time.

Diablo II isn't really an RPG in the roleplaying sense (though the debate about whether it's an RPG or not will cause immediate flame wars), but it's the best in its genre. An action RPG with all the monsters you'll ever need; a dungeon crawl done right, and one of the most influential games out there. A lot of people (including me) had loads of fun in this Blizzard classic. Just check the anticipation for Diablo III to know how much it still means to the gaming community.

I know you said you don't like the old, but do consider that the greatest CRPGs of all time are these:

Planescape: Torment. The best written RPG ever. It's not every day you've got to play an amnesiac zombie on an epic quest to discover himself. I acknowledge your concern for older games, but for my last playthrough around a year ago (re-fired it), I was bothered by the graphics for approximately half and hour, and after that I was too engrossed to care. I think you'll experience the same thing: some disorientation, then you get too involved for it to matter.

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn and its sequel Throne of Bhaal. While a lot of people recommend the Baldur's Gate series as a whole, I actually find the first BG to be relatively mediocre, good for its time but doesn't hold up that well with age. Shadows of Amn on the other hand was outright epoch-making and still compelling (and if I say so, I'm right; or do you dare question me? ). Of course, it might give a more comprehensive experience if you play the whole series, since one of the best things about the saga is how you rise from an orphan in a glorified library into a legend, all without feeling unnatural about it. The graphics are actually quite pretty in a hand-drawn sense since the landscapes are detailed and very well made. Not so, admittedly, the character models. But like PS:T after a while you stop caring. Moreover, the city of Athkatla still beats just about every other RPG city out there in making you feel like you're actually in a city, and not a lifeless RPG quest outpost like, say, all those crappy Oblivion shantytowns (what, is that what you call the Imperial City?).

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Morrowind and Oblivion saw a massive multi-generational graphical improvement, but the reduction in actual content and explorable area shrank considerably. Comparing Oblivion to Arena, a tiny section of Arena's game world is Oblivion's entire game world

I don't think the comparison is completely valid, since Arena and Daggerfall relies on random dungeons (i.e. generated) while Morrowind and Oblivion are "hand-crafted."

Of course, that doesn't excuse Oblivion for being somehow both smaller and less flavorful than its immediate predecessor. I still remember the complaints from the series' fans for Bethesda retconning the Cyrodiil Tropical Jungle into a Generic Medieval European Fantasy Landscape. The Morrowind mushroom towers were way cooler in that sense, even with less polygons.

[nanamo]

umm... I think this is also an RPG games ^^

try this one:

aveyond in amaranth games:

http://www.amaranthia.com/modules/ol...p?product_id=1

[Poetic Justice]

The original neverwinter nights has user created modules that shame most modern rpg's.

Its one of the most infinitely replayable rpg's around imo.

[-KarumA-]

I tried Last Remnant int he past, it slipped my mind guys sorry
Thing with that game was the fact that it just wouldn't work.. it started fine but after the intro animation it would simply freeze in the loading screen so that game never got off the ground and I couldn't play it (even when playing round with the graphics etc.)

As for Diablo, I've never played (have the books though) but I never got into that kind of gameplay, I always preferred something that is full 3D where you can move around with the camera, see stunning areas and see your character up close like in Morrowind etc.

Mass Effect is surely one I will check out, as well as Knights of the lost republic and Vampire: Bloodlines. I might check Torment out, cause the story looks interesting eventhough I am getting nostalgia DOS vibes from the screen shot