Trump Tweets (no more)

[MCAL]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...13313188802560

So Russia DID meddle in our election. Thanks for clarifying.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by MCAL

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...13313188802560

So Russia DID meddle in our election. Thanks for clarifying.

lol and trump attacks again, serious the democrat don't really need to do anything to damage trump image he is master in do it himself , serious someone in G.O.P must really shut up trump fast this idiocity know no bounds, if he keep doing that things i really doubt his mandate will really "survive until the end" if he keep "sabotage himself".

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I just want to say something relating to why I kept focusing on how non-voters of America are a part of the election process and had responsibilities; it is because I actual believe it is part of the reason the election ended the way it did.

I am not "assigning blame". I am not kicking people. I just don't see the electoral win of Trump as some freak accident that would somehow self correct.

I also am claiming that the current tepid response and lack of outrage towards the Trump administration's ongoing decision making, is exactly a sign that the American People is still consenting to Trump's policies.

Yes, it is true that Trump's approval rating is only at 30% now. But that meant nothing if those who disapprove, don't see it important enough to even vote next time.

It is transparent I want the Trump administration to not be re-elected. However if the population of America stay where it is, then the next mid terms and the next POTUS elections will still have the same outcomes.

To say that Americans didn't really elect Trump, implied that he would be out of office next time and no one need to do anything different. I just am not optimistic enough to see this.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I would definitely concede one thing.

Voting should be mandatory.

Also not on Tuesdays.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I also am claiming that the current tepid response and lack of outrage towards the Trump administration's ongoing decision making, is exactly a sign that the American People is still consenting to Trump's policies.

There's a ton of outrage, so not sure where you're looking. Just because a Civil War hasn't started doesn't mean there isn't outrage.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by GDB

There's a ton of outrage, so not sure where you're looking. Just because a Civil War hasn't started doesn't mean there isn't outrage.

There is only as much outrage as during the election. And that amount was not enough before, so it isn't enough now.

[Ithekro]

Most of the outrage started once they figured out Clinton was going to lose, which didn't set in until late in the evening and the next day. Up until Election Day, most people thought she was going to win if you listened to the media at all. We've had a variety of protest, marches, and some violence ever since.

San Francisco is basically saying "no" to every single Trump policy, even if they get blacklisted for Federal programs.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

There is only as much outrage as during the election. And that amount was not enough before, so it isn't enough now.

What is enough "outrage" to qualify as "enough" for you? As Ithekro said, there's been protests, marches, constant opposition from courts/states, and even violence involving the attempted murder of multiple GOP congressmen. And this isn't enough outrage for you?

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Why subtract them? It just meant they don't see the difference between Trump and Clinton, which means they are literally indifferent to Trump winning.

Anyone who has different reasons for disliking Trump and Clinton, and the vast majority most likely does, already sees the difference and therefore cannot be indifferent. Regardless of that the original argument was whether or not the winner represents non-voters. On a personal level you cannot be represented by someone whose ideology you don't share and anyone who informed themselves and made the conscious decision not to vote for the winner clearly falls into that category.

Trump won the election and represents the country but by no means does that equal to every abstainer supporting his decisions.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Trump won the election and represents the country but by no means does that equal to every abstainer supporting his decisions.

Abstain meant one supports the outcome no matter what it was. More importantly, abstain in the upcoming midterms or the Trump re-election also is being indifferent to Trump's policies. If one doesn't want to oppose Trump in the ballot box then one doesn't want to oppose Trump. There is no other way to spin it.

[Ithekro]

And the likelihood that the next election will be different if the Democrats run someone that isn't Hillary Clinton. Her history and baggage is what drive people who would normally vote Democrat away from her, and kept those that were on the fence from voting for her, turning to third parties or not voting at all.

The Republican numbers didn't really increase from four and a half years ago, and the Democratic numbers dropped a little bit. It was enough in key places to result in a win for Trump, but in three year's time? After four years of Trump, and the Democrats maybe putting up someone that half the county doesn't hate on sight, Trump will end up being a one term president.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Abstain meant one supports the outcome no matter what it was. More importantly, abstain in the upcoming midterms or the Trump re-election also is being indifferent to Trump's policies. If one doesn't want to oppose Trump in the ballot box then one doesn't want to oppose Trump. There is no other way to spin it.

There is, it is called not supporting either side because you find both distasteful. Not liking both parties means you disagree with both and so do not support either of them. With such a positioning, there is no effective way to oppose the parties in power unless one can drum up enough support for a third party of some kind, and too many people think that is impossible and abstain instead because they have nothing to fight with if both parties are disagreeable.

But as mentioned, most people thought Clinton was going to win last year because the media drummed it into our heads that she was going to win because Trump was a joke. The following week the media partly imploded as they pointed fingers at each other and realized they hadn't been paying attention since they thought their own politics were solid nation wide, when most the media is based in New York or California.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

After four years of Trump, and the Democrats maybe putting up someone that half the county doesn't hate on sight, Trump will end up being a one term president.

If half of America doesn't hate Trump more than Clinton even before the election, they are not going to change their minds in 3 years.

What exactly is about Clinton that is worse than Trump? Trump is an ACTUAL fraud, even the Chinese can see that. In fact everyone can see that, except Americans. Only Americans think Trump is less hated than Clinton, and this has NOT changed. Your very post itself is telling me that people STILL think Trump is the better choice, an exclusively American line of thought.

But since Americans are the only ones who can vote, and Americans still think Trump is better than Clinton even NOW, it means Trump will be re-elected.

Clinton was the better candidate. Americans choose the worse candidate to win because that's what Americans wanted. And Americans will elect Trump or someone else like him in the future, unless and until Americans change their minds. Since so far all signs point to no minds being changed, there will be no change.

[Ithekro]

Some people in American have not liked Hillary Clinton politically since at least the early 1990s. That she kept staying around and more issues came up while she was first a Senator and later Secretary of State, didn't help her image nationally. Internationally, yo may have a different picture of our politicians, but that's not what we see. Trump has been and on again off again joke and businessman since the 1980s, and most people couldn't tell what his politics even were since he was more of less a Democrat until recently. Trump as the more unknown politically of the two, and an element of the nation did not want more of the Democrat's agenda brought in with Bill Clinton in the 1990s which was a certainty if Hillary came into office.

Most of the above has to due with Clinton's baggage than anything else. There was too much of it, and while the majority still won't support Trump, they also didn't want Clinton in office. Give these people someone....anyone else, but Clinton, and they'll vote Trump right on out.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Most of the above has to due with Clinton's baggage than anything else. There was too much of it, and while the majority still won't support Trump, they also didn't want Clinton in office. Give these people someone....anyone else, but Clinton, and they'll vote Trump right on out.

Excuses. Americans are the only ones who will let Trump win over Clinton, so the problem isn't Clinton, it is Americans.

You are still not explaining why Clinton is worse than Trump. So next time when a new candidate show up to oppose Trump, the same excuses will work again.

When the only factor in common is Americans, then Americans are the issue. Because the rest of the planet fail to see why Clinton is worse.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Excuses. Americans are the only ones who will let Trump win over Clinton, so the problem isn't Clinton, it is Americans.

You are still not explaining why Clinton is worse than Trump. So next time when a new candidate show up to oppose Trump, the same excuses will work again.

When the only factor in common is Americans, then Americans are the issue. Because the rest of the planet fail to see why Clinton is worse.

i'm with you on that about "how cliton could be worst than "trump, look at what he is doing now?

- being friendly with american enemie(russia)
- taking away health care for the sake of wall
- reducing retiriment and others public insures again for the sake of his wall
- break the clima protection promisse
- open here and there some "coal mines, because you knew "coal is the next generation energy source
- reduce funds from cience
- making american go back to "stone age"

what clinton could had did worst than him so far????, proclam herselfe a "queen"?? end democracy??? turn american in a dictatorship???, because this is the only remain thing for trump do at his crazy pace, which he is doing things so bad which even his "daugther" don't approve.

[Ithekro]

20 plus years of despising someone for their politics leaves a lasting impression, which was Clinton. Trump didn't have that baggage going into the election since he wasn't a politician. This kept people that would normally votes Democrat from voting for Clinton. They didn't vote for Trump, but avoided Clinton and her baggage like the plague.

The Republican voters, the ones that have been voting consistently Republican since probably the 1990s or even 1980s (or longer I suppose) are conservatives. The social programs of the Democratic Party since Bill Clinton are something the conservative have been against since the 1990s, so that hasn't changed since the Democrat's policies are still along those lines. So they were not going to back Clinton regardless. The Republican candidate was Trump, so they voted Trump, purely along party lines.

The American Independents, the other party that endorsed Trump as their candidate, are nationalist or Constitutionalist, depending on who you ask....some even say that is the same thing. Their take is that the Democratic Party is slowly destroying the nation and/or Constitution somehow. This was the party that wants the Wall and to deport illegal aliens entirely as well as end the policies of the US being the World Police. They want to return to isolationism and if the world has a problem, than the world can take care of it themselves....Leave the United States out of it, because whatever it is, its your problem. That sort of thinking.

[Valky]

How the heck did they expect Isolationism when it's USA that put it's finger everywhere?

Originally Posted by MCAL

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...13313188802560

So Russia DID meddle in our election. Thanks for clarifying.

He want people got distracted from the healthcare bill so much huh. Now farts keep coming out of his mouth.

[Ithekro]

They want the US to pulls its fingers out of everywhere. As far as they are concerned, we've done too much for too little, time to take our toys and go home world wide. They want to untangle the US from world affairs, much like Americans tried to keep out of Europeans affairs and alliances in the decades prior to the Great War and World War II.

More than likely they would settle for the Monroe Doctrine and hold sway over the Western Hemisphere, and let the rest of the world do whatever in the Eastern Hemisphere as long at it doesn't effect trade. Trade seems to be the only thing Americans would lift a finger for in the 19th century. In some cases it was the middle finger.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by GDB

And made the opposition realize it wasn't a joke.

So? She still did better for it. On balance, it helped her.

Not even close to the same extent.

You're just more vulnerable to fake news. Which is also on you.

Entire point of this tangent is that she got too damn close for someone attacking America for letting Trump in.

So one has to come from a perfect country to think you made a terrible choice? That seems pretty arbitrary.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

How many of your 72% remain if you subtract the % of people who couldn't identify themselves with neither Trump nor Clinton? Or any of the other joke candidates for that matter. If anything a high abstain rate only proves that the parties have lost the contact to their base. It's easy to pretend that you can split the whole (non-)voter base in homogeneous groups whereas in reality the situation isn't just black and white.

I agree that abstentionists abstain for many varied reasons. It's not germane. As VCV said, what they expressed in their vote was indifference toward the outcome. If it's not 100% congruent with their actual inner thoughts, well, votes (or non-votes) rarely are.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

You spoke precisely to move the goalposts. The original discussion line involved whether or not Trump represents the majority. You then moved it to the majority and minority involving just the votes. This is what we call backpedaling.

Again, nope. The "original discussion" spoke of representing "America". Not just that part of it that bothered to cast a ballot. I'm willing to assume it wasn't intentional, but if anyone's moving the goalposts, it's you.

Why don't you state something more concrete and give a reasonable time frame, if you're willing to judge. Otherwise, it's nothing more than hot air.

It takes what, 6 years to replace your legislatures? So, yeah, 6 years + some additional delay imposed by electoral calendars, counted from the time enough Americans want it. Which looks to be never, but who knows?

The implication that non-Hillary voters were tolerant of Trump.

And that's exactly what I meant. I said as much in other threads.

Inner thoughts, Facebook posts, and ultimately even marching in the streets don't count. Votes do.

In a vaccum, no, it doesn't, but given the context of this discussion...

Oh and




Exactly, how the hell does Hitler even come into this discussion?

"If you don't share my point of view you're spreading racist propaganda". Rhetorically, it's pretty close to the Hitler nonsense.

Note the above.



You really love those slogans, eh?

If I did, I'd invite you to ponder "no snowflake feels responsible for the avalanche".

I'm not the person you need to preach to.

My point is that I don't need to preach to anyone.

I already voted/will vote against Trump. What I meant is towards those on the fence that as you've termed "tolerate" him. These are the people I meant the tone too.

I'm aware of that theory. I don't care for it. Their vote, their responsibility. And if they're too petty to vote "right" because I hurt their feelings, well, I'm too petty to lie to them. Here's another slogan for you, paraphrased from the first Duke of Wellington: "Vote Trump and be damned!".

If you actually read what I wrote earlier in the post, instead of worrying about my emotional well-being, you would note that I had also referred to a lot of people in the aformentioned group get triggered pretty easily. Thus, it's best to you know, not come off too strongly.

Yes, but you come off as pretty triggered yourself. Especially when you say I should moderate my tone for the sake of absent, hypothetical people. Not you, of course, but... friends.

It's not a hard concept. You are smart enough to identify the problem that apathetic people, or just plain disillusioned people are the problem. That means it's best to tackle the problem there, and find out what's wrong with it, instead of this sentiment.

Another easy concept is that I'm not their mom.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

They want the US to pulls its fingers out of everywhere. As far as they are concerned, we've done too much for too little, time to take our toys and go home world wide. They want to untangle the US from world affairs, much like Americans tried to keep out of Europeans affairs and alliances in the decades prior to the Great War and World War II.

More than likely they would settle for the Monroe Doctrine and hold sway over the Western Hemisphere, and let the rest of the world do whatever in the Eastern Hemisphere as long at it doesn't effect trade. Trade seems to be the only thing Americans would lift a finger for in the 19th century. In some cases it was the middle finger.

The world have changed since the late 19th Century, man. Even if you want nothing to do with it, there is a whole bunch of the world hating everyone and their dogs living in the Western Sphere just for breathing and existing. Even if you walled your entire country and cut off all ties except for trading, they WILL find a way to remind you that they exist and hate you.