2014-08-11, 23:45 | Link #781 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Is it because the US is a big easy target? And that it is far harder to make the EU the evil monster, because they haven't started any wars lately? I see the blame piled on America as a literal distraction. Russia know they would lose the argument if they try to make the mud stick on EU. America has done many bad things, and still do them to this day, and that's why they are now being accused of what they didn't do. But you should not charge a criminal for a crime he didn't actually commit, that's just not how it works.
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2014-08-12, 00:09 | Link #782 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
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russia started blaming US for every bad thing happening to russia since the protests vs putin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2...ssian_protests its just a continuation of putin's strategy of creating an imaginary enemy in the form of the "evil west". nothing unites a nation like an external foe afterall.
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2014-08-12, 02:35 | Link #783 | ||||
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Freedom is completely subjective. According to the US doctrine a country would be more free, the closer it opperates with the US. So, how much freedom have the people gained in the Ukraine? Especially in East Ukraine, who are now closer to Russia, while the west Ukraine is closer to the EU/US. In terms of actual, measurable freedom both sides gained very little. This was never about freedom, this was about foreign interests in the Ukraine. The problem is, that all this cost simply too many civilian lives. The people in the former East Germany could rid themselves from a similarily surpressive regime without all that death. Fortunately they were not as much a subject of international block headedness back then. Quote:
However, (as I said before) I just hope this will cost Germany, the EU, the US and Russia dearly in economic terms. I am not that delusioned to believe, that the EU, Germany, the US or Russia is getting any reprimands from the international community for their involvement in Ukraine. But in a sense of their collective block headedness they impose those sanctions to inflict this by themselves on each other.
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2014-08-12, 03:09 | Link #784 | ||
nani ni tatoemu
Join Date: Sep 2006
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It is a distraction, but it's not so much because it's an easy target, but because it's a worthy one. In the sense that Russia doesn't respect the EU because they assume they can always use divide and conquer (the latter not literally) and payoff tactics there. Europe is the place to go to shop, live the good life and educate your children; it is not a threat - it's Gayropa, it doesn't have the balls. But standind up against America makes you big and important in the world, and that feels good to the lay folk in front of their TV screens who are yearning for the Soviet era feeling of authority. It's so much easier to cheer the fight against America and the "ukrofashists" never having to leave your couch than face the reality of corruption and decay in your own country and do something about it. So Putin gets his all-important 85% support figures. |
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2014-08-12, 03:21 | Link #785 |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Yes, and because every super power regards their immediate neighbours with that much respect, they do allow them to e.g. have nuclear weapons, as in the case of Cuba. This is a circular argument that will lead nowhere.
You just have to believe me, when I say that I am not Gerhard Schröder. And that I do not care about what Gerhard Schröder's opinion is on the matter (he can have his opinion, and I have mine).
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2014-08-12, 03:43 | Link #786 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Whatever you believe in man. We know above discussion going nowhere And why should we put the blame on the US? Isn't it obvious? The CIA has been in close contact with Kiev since this whole thing started. The only organisation historically showed to again and again stage coup against legitimate foreign governments and change their foreign policy (include spark up regional conflict) in the name of US interest. Which was such a coincidence that Ukraine current situation was one as such.
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2014-08-12, 03:46 | Link #787 | ||
nani ni tatoemu
Join Date: Sep 2006
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2014-08-12, 03:59 | Link #788 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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It's almost like the EU doesn't exist.
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2014-08-12, 04:02 | Link #789 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Just stated that US involvement is clear. Does not means they are the only one
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2014-08-12, 04:05 | Link #790 | |||
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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I am happy that you agree with me. Quote:
Thats not what I said, or was it? Maybe an misunderstanding. Quote:
The difference is, that I do not see the US, the EU or Germany as heroes and Russia as villain, because in my oppinion they are all acting more or less equally irresponsibly here. So, if anything, you can blame me for being equally anti EU, anti Germany, anti Russia and anti US in that matter. The only reason why I have to appear so anti US here, is that I have to defend my anti US stance for whatever reason. But nobody questions my anti EU, anti Germany or anti Russia stance.
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2014-08-12, 04:10 | Link #791 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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America has its fingers in many pies, that's true. But if you claim that America is the main Western force influencing Ukraine, then you are, unfortunately, delusional. If you don't want to admit that the EU is the people Putin is opposing, but instead try to blame the US just because you want to, then you haven't been paying attention to anything that's been going on.
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2014-08-12, 04:26 | Link #793 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Ever thought about that?
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2014-08-12, 04:28 | Link #794 | ||
nani ni tatoemu
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Then why bring Cuba into it (in that way)?
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2014-08-12, 04:38 | Link #795 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Attacking America might seem fun to you, but since that require you to completely disregard the reality of the situation in Ukraine, you are not making sense. To not want to talk about EU or Germany is to completely fabricate what the war is about.
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2014-08-12, 04:48 | Link #796 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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By not addressing EU when I accused US involvement in Ukraine, that was counted me in as "attacking America" and " sideline the EU" involvement? Mind you, I also didn't address Russia, the rebel, or Ukraine itself. Does not mean I do not believe in their involvement over this issue
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2014-08-12, 04:57 | Link #797 | ||
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Of course over time their involvment may have increased, escpacially once russia became active, but even then it did not amount to much.
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2014-08-12, 05:04 | Link #798 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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But also does not negate the fact that they are known by fact for starting coup, regional conflict, and flip in national foreign policy. Which is Ukraine situation right now And did you look at the involvement of CIA around the globe for the last century? How many of them are "huge threat" to the US?
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2014-08-12, 05:36 | Link #799 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2014-08-12 at 05:48. Reason: A picture says a thousand words more |
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