Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Rah]

As for the facts:

Hayate was 2 hours late.
Hina didn't know the circumstances.
The cookies tasted bad.
You can see the view outside without having to go on the balcony (although not as good).
She lied about never looking in the direction of the windows. Peripheral vision owned her.

ALL LIES!

More on this at eleven.

[redwolf98]

You ever noticed how in harem mangas, the word 'love' is thrown around so much that it's impossible for anyone to simply 'like' or 'admire' or 'be attracted to' or 'have a crush on' someone? And why is it that every helping hand Hayate gives is returned by deep affection? Examples: he saves Ayumi on her bike, boom, she in love with him. He provides support to Hina and shares a similar past to her, boom, she's in love with him. I guess that's how harems work...
As for Hayate coming to the conclusion that he loves (I'm guessing he means 'in love with') Athena, wtf? They were kids, they had affection for eachother, they haven't seen eachother for ten years! I had deep affection and relations with a couple of girls ten years ago, I wouldn't say I'm in love with them now! I'm not convinced that Hayate, or really any of them, know what being in love is really like. They just all keep going ga ga for eachother for the simplest of reasons.
Honestly, I'm more interested in Maria right now than the whole Hayate/Athena/Hina/Ayumi situation, because she's the only character in this series that I can't predict. I've always had a feeling that her past has more to it than even she knows, and I get a sense that Nagi's grandfather knows more about it than he's ever revealed. A man that rich and that successful would have the resources to figure out where she came from and who her parents originally were. My guess is that he does know her origins, but hasn't told her. Why? Because he's protecting her from something. Merely a hypothesis, though I'm intrigued by the possibility. I hope Hata expands on it more.
As for Hayate, I think right now he needs to have a long talk with Athena and to see that neither of them are still the people they once were. Sad, I know, but that's growing up for ya. More so, I'm predicting a long, overly-drawn out conflict with her attempting to steal that necklace and the Sazenin fortune, with Hayate getting caught in the middle.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Used Can

I think it depends on how you interpret a scene.

For example:

Remember Hina's birthday? Sure, that was an important day to her, but to attack Hayate just because he was a bit late? What an authoritative and abusive girl! Who the hell would want to be with a girl that beats you just because you're late? I mean, sure, she can be helpful, but to react that way?! Hayate was even busy. Seriously, what an unreasonable person. I think her fans think too highly of her.

Not very convincing IMHO, because we all know from Isumi that she was under the influence of Masamune which made her lose control. And even so, it was SHE who stopped the attack nevertheless, regaining control before harm was done.

And that's how these opinion-based discussions roll.

So what's your point? Discussion pointless? Hardly.

Essentially, the disagreement between zodanhko and me can be summed up like this: In his opinion, her deep and overarching love for Hayate explains and excuses everything. Beating the hell out of him to protect him from harm makes sense. It's all for his sake, and if he's about to make a mistake, then Athena can protect him from that too.

My opinion is that Athena is a benevolent dictator type, genuinely caring for Hayate, but at the same time fencing him in. It worked out fine because Hayate didn't mind being treated like that. Still, their relationship is one between an ojousama and a servant, not on eye level.

Noone can claim to be "right" and the other one "wrong". Alot is interpretation and personal opinion. But at least I consider it insightful to have a debate like that. And everyone can see for him/herself which interpretation sounds more convincing.

[surerman]

Originally Posted by Rah

As for the facts:

Hayate was 2 hours late.
Hina didn't know the circumstances.
The cookies tasted bad.
You can see the view outside without having to go on the balcony (although not as good).
She lied about never looking in the direction of the windows. Peripheral vision owned her.

ALL LIES!

More on this at eleven.

Mmm..you forgot to mention:

1.Hina didn't even ask why he forgot their promised meeting, just snap out like a mad man (or girl? )
2.Attack with murder intention with Japanese Blood thyrst legendary sword
3.Cookies tasted bad?, umm..for some one that received title 'Butler', it's impossible. I kill one two years ago in his kitchen, and his cookie didn't bad, even when he just a newbie (graduate just 1 month before)

any news for next chapter spoiler?
Primuler bro? where are you? we need spoiler here

O boy! no spoiler, no new weakling to beat, no tournament, no prison break, no sandbag, no gang war, life is boring now

[Rah]

In fact they tasted so horrible that they worked as laxatives. The next day the toilets of the clock tower were clogged (yes, all of them for some reason).


Looks like spoilers are going to be late this week. Will it be an awesome chapter, or will it simply wrap up the dinner / continue explaining the reasons? 239 was somewhat good, but most of the chapter was full of Hayate comparing Athena to other people, and thinking what are his feelings for her. Not much fun there...

They need to clash like I described a few pages back! Hina needs to break down in tears and lash at him with rageeeeee! If she holds it in it's gonna be so boring..

Screw composure! She needs to take a stun gun out of her purse and direct it at his balls. ... heheh... hehehehehhehahahahhaha!!

*sigh* Why can't this happen?

[redwolf98]

My biggest fear about the whole thing is that everyones going to be severely depressed for the next twenty or so chapters about the one they love not loving them back. They'll mope, they'll cry, they'll get angry, then they'll move on. I don't want to spend the next four months reading how everyone is sad, I don't want Hayate becoming so obsessed with Athena that nothing else in the manga seems to matter. But I already get the feeling that I'm not going to get what I want...

[Rah]

Originally Posted by redwolf98

My biggest fear about the whole thing is that everyones going to be severely depressed for the next twenty or so chapters about the one they love not loving them back. They'll mope, they'll cry, they'll get angry, then they'll move on. I don't want to spend the next four months reading how everyone is sad, I don't want Hayate becoming so obsessed with Athena that nothing else in the manga seems to matter. But I already get the feeling that I'm not going to get what I want...

Let's hope not. That would be horrible.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Essentially, the disagreement between zodanhko and me can be summed up like this: In his opinion, her deep and overarching love for Hayate explains and excuses everything. Beating the hell out of him to protect him from harm makes sense. It's all for his sake, and if he's about to make a mistake, then Athena can protect him from that too.

To sum up, your "well-balanced" score was not so well-balanced after all as you mentioned with your a prior: doctrine behavior.

Originally Posted by Rah

They need to clash like I described a few pages back! Hina needs to break down in tears and lash at him with rageeeeee! If she holds it in it's gonna be so boring..

Screw composure! She needs to take a stun gun out of her purse and direct it at his balls. ... heheh... hehehehehhehahahahhaha!!

*sigh* Why can't this happen?

You know, I really like your imagination and enjoy reading what you post.

[redwolf98]

Regardless of preference, including my own, I'm looking down the road at the end of this manga and drawing conclusions from past experience with harem, and I come to the conclusion that, despite past love interests and others(Hina, Ayumi, all possible others), Hayate is bound to end up with one of two possible candidates: Nagi or Maria.

Why Nagi? The whole basis of the main setting of this manga is their relationship. To have another girl step in and weaken that relationship would break a fundamental plot point: Hayate and Nagi are in eachother's lives. Not saying that relationship can't be rock or even changed, which I'm kind of expecting to happened when Nagi learns of Hayate's feelings for Athena. Hell, she probably would send him away and Athena might take him in for a while, but eventuually he would return to her. Right now their relationship reflects that of a older brother/little sister ploy, despite Nagi's rather childish attempts to go further, and honestly I can't imagine Hayate being comfortable with stepping beyond that relationship. Hayate's role in Nagi's life would be and has been that of helping her grow and mature, much like Maria, and I doubt he would be able to see her as a woman even when she does grow up - that would have too much weird incest vibe to it for him to be comfortable with. Think Tenchi and Sasami from Tenchi Muyo.

Why Maria? This is not personal preference, I assure you (truthfully I'm not sure who I would want him to be with, since every possibility has a drawback), but I feel Maria has played a role in Hayate's life that I've only seen Athena having done as well, and we now know how he feels about A-tan because of it. Think back for a second on all the moments within the manga that you can think of that define Hayate as an individual, where he expresses himself and his desire, but more importantly, his weaknesses and failures. Most of the time, he's worried about what other's think about him (not romantically, but socially) and how he can help them or what he should and can do for them. He's not the type of character who I feel likes to look himself in the mirror and seriously say "What do I want for myself?" (blame his parents). What's his favorite food? Color? What does he like to do in his spare time? I find it really frustrating that for as long as we all have been reading this manga, we still don't know much about its main character beyond his back luck, ridiculous physical endurance, and poor social skills and understanding. There are only really two characters I've ever felt defined Hayate as an individual: Athena and Maria. For Athena's part, we already know how Hayate feels about her. So what about Maria? There was one scene I remember very clearly as it was the first time I really suspected the future relationship between Hayate and Maria, and not for its romantic nature. It was when Hayate failed the entrance exam into the academy and he went to sit at the lake. It was the first time I felt we saw Hayate for being weak and vulnerable, and it was Maria who he expressed his pain to, who comforted and supported him when he needed it. It is human nature to love those that give us comfort, to whom we can expose our frailty and weaknesses to and know that they will not condemn or scrutinize us for them. Who else has Hayate done that with other than Athena? I can't think of a single other incident. Not Hina. Not Ayumi. Not Nagi. I believe that part of being in love with someone is being able to show them your flaws, your uncertainties, and your failures, and knowing that they will not hurt you with them. Hayate has never done this with anyone else other than Athena and Maria, and that's why I feel that Maria is the strongest candidate. Also I believe it could work between them and not destroy Hayate's and Nagi's relationship with eachother, excluding an end to her romantic interest in him.

I am aware of the scene where Hayate comapares his feelings to the other girls to those he has for Athena. I'm aware that Maria was there and Nagi was not. Hayate's convinced himself that he still loves Athena. I think he's in for a world of hurt, they both are. As for Nagi not being there and Maria being present, I think Hayate does not even consider having feelings for Nagi, so that's why she wasn't there. She's his master, his savior, and the person he has to support and protect... the more I list, the weirder it sounds to me, like someone falling in love with their mentor who happens to also be their gaurdian. Maria, on the other hand, at this point he cares deeply about her, and she does support him in his personal feelings and troubles more than anyone else (in fact I still can't think of anyone else who has done so besides her and Athena), but I don't think they've had that defining moment where they realize their deeper feelings for eachother. I am expecting it though, but far, far, far down the line.

Again, this is all hypothesis from past experiences with harem manga. Maybe I'm completely off on the conclusion and Hata surprises us. Who know...

[aldw]

Again, this is all hypothesis from past experiences with harem manga. Maybe I'm completely off on the conclusion and Hata surprises us. Who know...

Really though, the whole 'romantic rivalry' concept used in storywriting has been so overused to reinforce the existing story relationships that there are multiple tropes about it, to the point that if Hata chooses to make the story end on an Athena x Hayate pairing I'd applaud that just on breaking the mold alone, let alone my own personal views of the characters.

[redwolf98]

Originally Posted by aldw

if Hata chooses to make the story end on an Athena x Hayate pairing I'd applaud that just on breaking the mold alone, let alone my own personal views of the characters.

If he did that, he'd have two million otakus bashing down his door and give him a lynching. Still, I'd give him props at his funeral.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by redwolf98

If he did that, he'd have two million otakus bashing down his door and give him a lynching. Still, I'd give him props at his funeral.

Well, even though I seriously despise Hideki Anno I do give him creative respect for going against the mold with the Eva fans back in the day, so there is a reboundable precident...

[GDB]

Hayate is good and all, but I seriously don't see it having two million japanese fans, based on volume sales and all.

[redwolf98]

Originally Posted by GDB

Hayate is good and all, but I seriously don't see it having two million japanese fans, based on volume sales and all.

They wouldn't all be Hayate fans, but there's more than two million otakus in the world, and they would rally under the banner of righteous indignation against him for unceremoniously breaking manga protocol.

P.S. What would otakus use for a banner? What character, scene, or symbol would fully symbolize a group of people, majority being socially awkward virgins, uniting in their NEET rage?

[Rah]

Nagi wasn't among the commoners because she took the whole front page, and because Hata is just lazy. Or Hayate might mention her in 240, saying that she's his new north star, even though he still loves Athena.

As for... MAAAARIIIIIIAAAAA, YOU'VE GOTTA SEE HER! GO IN-SA-NE, AND OUT OF YOUR MIIINNNDDD!! Latiiinnnaaaa~~~ AVE MARIA!! A MILLION AND ONE CANDLE LIGHTS!!

She looks like background to me. She's the perfect furniture. Does everything as expected, and obeys Nagi to the letter. I'd love to see her lose all her modesty, and dress in a skimpy suit, aaaaannnd other things... hahah.

Well from my POV, if she was given an important role, she'd probably execute it effortlessly and flawlessly. .... She needs more personality. Specifically a defiant one!

Here's a light example:

It's bed time and as always Nagi is afraid to sleep alone. Hayate is obviously out of the question, Tama has fleas, and all her friends di- errr.. are overseas. So like most of the time she's going to sleep with Maria.

Nagi: Maria? Maria? *looking for her while hugging her pink pillow with a thumb in her mouth for cuteness*
Nagi: Oh, there you are!
Maria: *is shaving her legs in the bathroom when Nagi comes in*
Nagi: Maria, I'm going to bed.. are you coming?
Maria: *for various yet to be understood reasons she's shaving with a machete, even though there are other more practical means to do so very very nearby*
Maria: *startled by Nagi she cuts her leg off, yelling in a deep husky voice ARRRRR!!*
Nagi: Ahhh!! Maria, your leg, your leg!! We need to call a doctor quickly! HAYATE!! (he's in the underground punishment jai- ... facility)
Maria: *puts on a wooden leg* YARRRRRRRRR!!!
Magical parrot that suddenly appeared on her shoulder for no reason: Yaaaaaarrrrrr!! Kaw!
Nagi: .........

Wait... I've completely derailed this..

New example. For real this time!

Nagi: Maria, I'm hungry. Go make lunch.
Maria: FUCK OFF! *shows middle finger* (yelled with an Irish accent & beard)
Nagi: *comatose from shock*

Hmm, no wait, the original idea I had was about her leaving, and Nagi somehow ending up sleeping with Klaus. Poor Klaus.. he needs love. It's so sad... so very sad..

Oh well~

[redwolf98]

Ha, ha, ha! I'd be freaked out if Maria did that! Just occurs to me that we really don't know much about her either, aside from her attempt to be perfect natured and fear of cockroaches. I said it in an earlier post, but I'm betting that her past will become a major plot point, as I believe Nagi's grandfather learned who her parents were and hasn't told her in order to protect her. I'm really rooting for that one as it would break this sort of go-nowhere sense the manga gives off sometimes.

[cheongzewei]

Maria in scantly clad catgirl costume.jpg?

What chappy was that already? It's in the robot hayate one.

[pseudonhym]

Originally Posted by Rah

Nagi wasn't among the commoners because she took the whole front page, and because Hata is just lazy. Or Hayate might mention her in 240, saying that she's his new north star, even though he still loves Athena.

As for... MAAAARIIIIIIAAAAA, YOU'VE GOTTA SEE HER! GO IN-SA-NE, AND OUT OF YOUR MIIINNNDDD!! Latiiinnnaaaa~~~ AVE MARIA!! A MILLION AND ONE CANDLE LIGHTS!!

She looks like background to me. She's the perfect furniture. Does everything as expected, and obeys Nagi to the letter. I'd love to see her lose all her modesty, and dress in a skimpy suit, aaaaannnd other things... hahah.

Well from my POV, if she was given an important role, she'd probably execute it effortlessly and flawlessly. .... She needs more personality. Specifically a defiant one!

Here's a light example:

It's bed time and as always Nagi is afraid to sleep alone. Hayate is obviously out of the question, Tama has fleas, and all her friends di- errr.. are overseas. So like most of the time she's going to sleep with Maria.

Nagi: Maria? Maria? *looking for her while hugging her pink pillow with a thumb in her mouth for cuteness*
Nagi: Oh, there you are!
Maria: *is shaving her legs in the bathroom when Nagi comes in*
Nagi: Maria, I'm going to bed.. are you coming?
Maria: *for various yet to be understood reasons she's shaving with a machete, even though there are other more practical means to do so very very nearby*
Maria: *startled by Nagi she cuts her leg off, yelling in a deep husky voice ARRRRR!!*
Nagi: Ahhh!! Maria, your leg, your leg!! We need to call a doctor quickly! HAYATE!! (he's in the underground punishment jai- ... facility)
Maria: *puts on a wooden leg* YARRRRRRRRR!!!
Magical parrot that suddenly appeared on her shoulder for no reason: Yaaaaaarrrrrr!! Kaw!
Nagi: .........

Wait... I've completely derailed this..

New example. For real this time!

Nagi: Maria, I'm hungry. Go make lunch.
Maria: FUCK OFF! *shows middle finger* (yelled with an Irish accent & beard)
Nagi: *comatose from shock*

Hmm, no wait, the original idea I had was about her leaving, and Nagi somehow ending up sleeping with Klaus. Poor Klaus.. he needs love. It's so sad... so very sad..

Oh well~

If this would've happen.... Maria would've been the most popular character in Hayate no Gotoku.. no doubt.

[Akarin]

I wanna see Hinagiku turn yandere.



Nice Boat

[surerman]

Originally Posted by redwolf98

If he did that, he'd have two million otakus bashing down his door and give him a lynching. Still, I'd give him props at his funeral.

Then I'am afraid I must prepared two megaton TNT to cast them out, *sigh* it's over my budget to kill or save him (Hate-Sensei) because AthenaxHayate pairing I ship

Well, Japanese human not so hard to kill anyway so, go on Otaku's, bang his door if Hayate end up with Athena, and all of you will become crumbs in...lemme see ...35 second in the blast. I'll take picture of their corpse tough

*calling Japanese region Kingpin "Oi bro! can you prepared 2 megaton TNT for me?it'll cash!"*

oh about their banner, they can use a loincloth or Fundoshi as their banner:P it's veeery very 'Japan taste"