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Shadow5YA · 2012-03-04, 13:06

Spoiler for saving space:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

Wait a minute are you seriously saying the reason you think Kanna hasn’t been proactive enough is because she made a choice not to confess to Kaito? A choice that lasted exactly two episodes and where Kanna wouldn’t have been able to do anything even if she made the choice to confess?

In any case you’ve got it wrong. I’m simply saying she’s made the level of effort equal to the other girls. Just because she made a choice not to confess for two episodes don’t necessarily mean she’s done worse than the others. Remember that Mio chose not to confess until recently as well.

Do you really think it was her choice for only two episodes? Again, Kanna has liked Kaito long before Ichika came into the picture. Which brings me to the next section:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

That’s all? You really don’t think there was a second message? Then why did Kaito’s sister say that? Why would she just randomly say “take care of Kaito”? You admit she knows that Kanna has feelings for Kaito. Don’t you think she’s saying it because she expects something to happen? Kanna even thought that the idea of Kaito’s sister looking for a girl to take care of him was like a wedding arrangement (Episode 2)

It has come to my attention that I was also discussing Tetsurou's sister before, not Kaito's. Funny how the same still applies.

Anyway, like I said before, Kanna's feelings for Kaito were present long before Ichika came into the picture. Everyone except Kaito knew that. At that point, Manami was just getting acquainted with Ichika, and Ichika didn't even like Kaito. The only girl who the elder sisters knew would want to take care of Kaito was Kanna. Naturally, some people would want to push them together. Tetsurou has been trying to do that the entire series. It would not be surprising if Manami and Nanami have been doing the same before the series started.

[QUOTE=Haak;4036931]If we’re talking about before Ichika then I don’t think she made a choice not to pursue a relationship. She just had these feelings for him and didn’t know what the hell to do with them. Probably confused but didn’t think she needed to rush anything. Seems to be pretty common in this anime actually. The girls only ever realise they like the guy through jealousy. Weird.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

No, early Ichika was someone who "just had these feelings and didn't know what the hell to do with them". She was someone who was fond of Kaito, but not sure how fond and how far she wants to go with him until later on.

Kanna was farther along than that, or at least far enough to where people wanted to push them together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

That wasn’t the point I was making. The point was that whatever Tetsuro was going to say, it didn’t matter to Kanna. And I’m pretty sure she knew it was about Ichika. Therefore, Ichika wasn’t the actually issue. Kanna didn’t interrupt him because she thought his suggestion lacks credibility because she thinks he doesn't know what it's like to be in love. That only came afterwards in a spit of anger when Tetsuro half ridiculed her. She didn’t even mean it.

Again, the interrupted line was more about Kaito, not Ichika. "Kai still hasn't--" clearly has Kaito as the subject. If you really want to guess at what Tetsurou was about to say, then my guess is that Kaito still hasn't hooked up with anyone yet.
The point is that Tetsurou is saying that Kanna still has a chance, but Kanna is refusing for reasons already stated: because she's afraid of ruining what she has if she gets rejected.

Her choice not to do anything goes back farther than two episodes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

Anyway, there was the other point as well: The fact is that if she made the choice not to confess then it would automatically mean she doesn’t think Ichika isn’t a problem. Like I said, why has she decided to confess now? It’s not like anything has actually changed. Ichika is still there.

Wait, are you insinuating that people decline to confess because there is no rival and therefore no need to confess? There are other possible reasons. There are people like Tetsurou and Mio who concede their love interest to their rivals and do (or did) not want any deeper relationship. More than that, there are people who do confess simply because they are afraid of rejection and ending up in a worse state than when they didn't confess. It's natural, and it happens regardless of whether there is a rival or not.

The idea that it's more pressing to confess when there are rivals and jealousy present is the writer/audience insert. Kanna still has a chance, but rivals will make it more likely that the love interest will get hooked up sooner. When the love interest is officially in a relationship, then it really can't be helped. Therefore, the writer and some viewers would want her to hurry up.
However, rivals do not always start or end the fear of rejection. A person can always be afraid to confess whether there is a rival or not.

In this case, there are rivals. Kanna knows or at least feels aware of her rivals. She gets jealous towards them. She acted on that jealousy once, and felt guilty about it. That doesn't mean her choice to act or not is entire dependent on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

Yes okay fine. I was just wondering if you were basing that on Kanna and Tetsuro convo based on the “reasons already stated to Tetsurou -- she was afraid of ruining what she currently has with Kaito.” It seems to me like you are basing it on Tetsuro’s conversation but you’re also saying that Tetsuro’s convo suggested she was just bothered by Ichika, hence my confusion.

See above. I feel that Kanna should confess because the presence of rivals runs the clock, and for Kanna, her time is running out. That's one of the reasons why rivals are even introduced in romances: to press the issue and either make one of them aware of their feelings, or feel pressed to get their feelings out if they're already aware of them.
That is not necessarily what Kanna feels. She is bothered by her rivals, however, her independent fears of rejection and awkwardness still apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

I haven’t been refusing anything. I’m well aware of the fact that Kanna’s chose not to confess. It’s the very basis for one of my points after all: That she didn’t know she had a love rival and thus it’s unfair to compare her to those that did. But as long as you accept that Kanna’s been as proactive as she can then I’m not going to pursue it any further. To be honest I don;t see a difference between Kanna pursing it as much as she can and Kanna pursuing it just as much as the others because the other girls pursued it as much as they reasonably could as well.

Yes, it is her choice not to confess. However, I disagree that she was unaware of her rivals for reasons already stated above, and therefore it is fair to compare her to those that did. That is why I say what you quoted from me here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

But your response was “No, the point is that Kanna's bad circumstances are not extraordinary.” – which doesn’t change the fact that Kanna has been proactive, just as much as the other girls.

I am not arguing Kanna didn't try hard enough to establish a successful, more-than-platonic relationship with Kaito. In that case, it wouldn't be fair for Kanna. What I argue is that Kanna didn't try hard enough to even confess when she has been aware of her feelings for a while now and when other characters like Mio with circumstances that I argue are similar have gone much farther than her.

Haak · 2012-03-04, 14:12

Spoiler for Shadow5YA:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Do you really think it was her choice for only two episodes? Again, Kanna has liked Kaito long before Ichika came into the picture. Which brings me to the next section:

I do yes. The idea that Kanna actively chose not to confess to Kaito before the Tetsuro-Rain scene is still very much theory, imo.

Quote:

It has come to my attention that I was also discussing Tetsurou's sister before, not Kaito's. Funny how the same still applies. Anyway, like I said before, Kanna's feelings for Kaito were present long before Ichika came into the picture. Everyone except Kaito knew that. At that point, Manami was just getting acquainted with Ichika, and Ichika didn't even like Kaito. The only girl who the elder sisters knew would want to take care of Kaito was Kanna. Naturally, some people would want to push them together. Tetsurou has been trying to do that the entire series. It would not be surprising if Manami and Nanami have been doing the same before the series started.

So what do you mean by that? Are you saying that Nanami’s attempt at getting Kanna to take care of Kaito was an attempt at pushing Kaito and Kanna together? That proves my point then: Nanami expected something to happen.

Quote:

No, early Ichika was someone who "just had these feelings and didn't know what the hell to do with them". She was someone who was fond of Kaito, but not sure how fond and how far she wants to go with him until later on.

Kanna was farther along than that, or at least far enough to where people wanted to push them together.

Perhaps, but not much. I don’t see any reason to think that Kanna made a conscious decision. There’s nothing to suggest that Kanna made that decision before the Tetsuro-Rain scene.

Quote:

Again, the interrupted line was more about Kaito, not Ichika. "Kai still hasn't--" clearly has Kaito as the subject. If you really want to guess at what Tetsurou was about to say, then my guess is that Kaito still hasn't hooked up with anyone yet.
The point is that Tetsurou is saying that Kanna still has a chance, but Kanna is refusing for reasons already stated: because she's afraid of ruining what she has if she gets rejected.

Her choice not to do anything goes back farther than two episodes.

The sentence itself we know was about Kaito, but I think you’re taking it out of context. Right before that they were talking about Kaito and Ichika and there’s nothing to suggest that changed. I think the story knew very well how we’d interpret that. I think the story knew very well that we would’ve all thought Tetsuro was talking about Ichika. And honestly I’m pretty sure Kanna knew as well. It’s pretty self-evident to me. Given the context anyway.

And I still don’t know why you’re saying her choice not to do anything goes back farther than two episodes. What is that actually based on? When Kanna tried to go on a date with Kaito in episode 3, it didn’t feel like she made a conscious decision not to confess. Nor would she have thanked Tetsuro before that for trying to get her and Kaito closer and then ironically offer to help Tetsuro with his girl troubles if he ever needs it (episode 5). And I think that if she had made a conscious decision not to confess to Kaito, then she would’ve explicitty told tetsuro that during the Tetsuro-Rain scene. She probably would’ve said something like “I already decided not confess, and i don’t see a reason why that should change”.

No doubt she had a fear of rejection which is why I suggested she wanted to take things slowly and not risk anything, but I don't think she made a conscious decision not confess for a certain period of time.

Quote:

Wait, are you insinuating that people decline to confess because there is no rival and therefore no need to confess? There are other possible reasons. There are people like Tetsurou and Mio who concede their love interest to their rivals and do (or did) not want any deeper relationship. More than that, there are people who do confess simply because they are afraid of rejection and ending up in a worse state than when they didn't confess. It's natural, and it happens regardless of whether there is a rival or not.

The idea that it's more pressing to confess when there are rivals and jealousy present is the writer/audience insert. Kanna still has a chance, but rivals will make it more likely that the love interest will get hooked up sooner. When the love interest is officially in a relationship, then it really can't be helped. Therefore, the writer and some viewers would want her to hurry up.
However, rivals do not always start or end the fear of rejection. A person can always be afraid to confess whether there is a rival or not.

In this case, there are rivals. Kanna knows or at least feels aware of her rivals. She gets jealous towards them. She acted on that jealousy once, and felt guilty about it. That doesn't mean her choice to act or not is entire dependent on them.

There can be other reasons but I don’t think we were ever given any. Yes she obviously does fear rejection but we also know that she fears another girl taking Kaito away. If she knew Ichika was a rival then I don’t see how she would’ve thought it was okay to stay normal. Like I said: If she did, then why did she choose to confess now? What’s changed?

Quote:

See above. I feel that Kanna should confess because the presence of rivals runs the clock, and for Kanna, her time is running out. That's one of the reasons why rivals are even introduced in romances: to press the issue and either make one of them aware of their feelings, or feel pressed to get their feelings out if they're already aware of them.
That is not necessarily what Kanna feels. She is bothered by her rivals, however, her independent fears of rejection and awkwardness still apply.

I think I’ve covered this in the above points then. Just quoting this to make sure.

Quote:

Yes, it is her choice not to confess. However, I disagree that she was unaware of her rivals for reasons already stated above, and therefore it is fair to compare her to those that did. That is why I say what you quoted from me here:
I am not arguing Kanna didn't try hard enough to establish a successful, more-than-platonic relationship with Kaito. In that case, it wouldn't be fair for Kanna. What I argue is that Kanna didn't try hard enough to even confess when she has been aware of her feelings for a while now and when other characters like Mio with circumstances that I argue are similar have gone much farther than her.

So you’re arguing that whilst she’s tried as hard as she could, she still should’ve tried harder to confess earlier than now. In all honesty, that doesn’t make sense to me at all.

~~mangatron~~ · 2012-03-05, 11:02

Whoa, rather heavy the past couple of pages. I appreciate the passion, fella's, but it's a romcom, aren't we supposed to enjoy the fun ride while it lasts, and cry when the heartbreaks happen?

Anyways, I really liked the beach arc, yeah an arc, I'm glad it took up the 2 episodes it needed, I was getting irked by the recent seasons of anime where the beach segment would take like, 5 minutes of one ep

And then the festival ep right after, right on schedule

but the courage test, when Kaito ran off, I felt it, that was like a rejection to Kanna. Sure he was genuinely worried about Mizuho, but in Kanna's case, seriously, since when was a courage test NOT about bringing two closer. Well, it actually might have in this case

I thought for sure we'd see Mizuho's sister's by now. But I think that's where this series' charm is: one alien girl, alone, in a world she's never been to, without any interference/assistance from family, Mizuho...... ends up killing a guy, revives him and then has feelings for him. Wait, that's like some guro version of a stockholm syndrome gone wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pellissier

Beach activities.

Spoiler for Megami/Nyantype - slightly NSFW:

I've been meaning to say this, but that Arisawa is big, and I mean, she's like as tall as Kanna but bigger up there, I was rather shocked. The anime didn't really show it that much. Didn't she have a shirt on most of the time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkuth

No Mio this month

You can bet she would have had the sweater on anyways

Oh, and I "fixed" one of the posters if it interests you

konart · 2012-03-05, 15:30

Spoilers

Spoiler for 09

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

leokiko · 2012-03-05, 16:15

Spoiler for episode 9:

sikvod00 · 2012-03-05, 18:04

Oh, man. That kiss scene was so wonderful.

Funny how Ichika was finally able to realize her feelings because of Kanna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leokiko

Spoiler for episode 9:

I think she's crying for Kanna's heartbreak as well as her own. Conflicted emotions are what makes for the best kind of drama IMO.

Lexxus · 2012-03-05, 19:11

I feel sorry for Kanna in this episode. If I were in her situation, I wouldn't have the courage to say something like that to my rival. NEVER!

Loved the last 3 minutes of the show before the ending song.

DragoonKain3 · 2012-03-05, 19:15

Well this episode confirms that Kaito only transferred in during first year of middle school. So as much as I'd like to think that Kaito and Kanna are childhood friends (would have another 'horse' in the race or so to speak), this episode totally debunked it as I have surmised before. Glad to know my osananajimi radar can still weed out false positivies.

As for the Mio --> Tetsu --> Kanna triangle... this episode just reinforces that I still don't know where I stand there. While it was certainly d'aww worthy seeing Tetsu comfort Kanna, seeing Mio behind the shed also bawling kinda broke my heart too. T_T

What's most interesting though is that Ichika has been on earth before, because she says the place is something she remembers through her memories. Meaning... is it possible that she's the daughter of Onegai Teacher's main couple?

(Shippy side also can't help but wonder at the possibility that Kaito and Ichika met before as kids but forgot about it, since Ichika was on earth before. Then logical side kicks shippy side in the nuts saying that Kaito most likely stayed in Tokyo all his life, so the possibility is near zero logically. But one can hope, right?

)

Malkuth · 2012-03-05, 20:11

... and that's all they are doing with the whole alien twist

rather underwhelming

Anyway, 2/3rds of the cast were crying their guts out this episode, while half of it was heart-broken, and only 1/3rd achieved happiness... on the other hand, I could not stop laughing since the presentation was more fitting to a satyr rather then romance.

But there is hope, since there are 3-4 episodes left for something more interesting

ThereminVox · 2012-03-05, 20:19

I laughed pretty hard at Tetsuro's sister getting the Zoidberg treatment when they went off to the spaceship.

The confession was a good payoff, and played very nicely. I just don't particularly like Ichika, or even Kaito that much.

All my feels for the Trio of Tragedy. All of them.

ars89 · 2012-03-05, 20:54

As expected Kaito doesn't have a problem, but in fact remembered and knew the whole time. That was very brave of Kanna to do that. The triangle drama gets more intriguing. Good thing Lemon helped Kaito out. The ending was simply great.

DragoonKain3 · 2012-03-05, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkuth

... and that's all they are doing with the whole alien twist

rather underwhelming

I thought that the biggest obstacle to IchikaXKaito is not Kanna, but the whole "Ichika must go back home someday" conflict? So I don't think her being an alien is done with the plot just yet... they DID destroy a rescue probe after all, so more aliens are bound to come.

Xeilo · 2012-03-05, 21:51

MIB is not fake.

DragoonKain3 · 2012-03-05, 21:56

Of course it isn't. If Remon states anything, however implausible, must be the truth. She's that awesome!

Waven · 2012-03-05, 22:02

So I guess the only secret left is why Ichika is looking for that place. Why would she have memories of it? Could she even be the daughter of Kei and Mizuho after all and she wants to see the place where her parents first met? I just checked and the place where Mizuho landed in Onegai teacher has indeed trees and a lake.

Again, sry if this was all mentioned, I didn't read the thread from the beginning

zeniselv · 2012-03-05, 23:21

i dont know why, im even used that the protagonist usually dont choose the character i prefer, but i dont like ichika x kaito, it actually pisses me off.

ZODDGUTS · 2012-03-06, 00:06

Problem is that I don't really care for any of the characters or whom they'll end up with. This series feels lacking that something that was in Onegai Teacher series. Also feel this series is trying to hard at being "deep" when it really isn't.

TimeSkip · 2012-03-06, 00:40

Remon is an MIB agent. How else could she know the ship was not functional right away, and was in the right place and time every time. She probably uses the movies as her report to her boss.

What she said about being forever 17 is probably true due to alien's tech. She's going to be a flat chested petite girl for the rest of her life.

Guardian Enzo · 2012-03-06, 00:52

Maybe blackmail is Remon's game. She certainly seems to be trying to push Ichika into incriminating situations and then film them...

Worldestroyer · 2012-03-06, 03:12

I'm expecting Mizuho to come back from space any episode now to find her /missing/ daughter. Remon *is* Morino, that due to her initial stand-still will never finish growing up and remains in High School because it's what makes her happy.... hahaha who knows. It's entertaining enough.

2012-03-05, 15:30	Link #824
konart Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Moscow, RU Age: 35	Spoilers Spoiler for 09 Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? __________________

2012-03-05, 16:15	Link #825
leokiko Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012	Spoiler for episode 9: As expected, Kaito doesn't care that she is an alien, but is worried that she will leave. This episode was a full-on drama involving all characters. The kiss scene at the end was awesome and I hope everything will turn out well from now on. A question though: Was Mio crying because she was rejected? At the end.

2012-03-05, 19:15	Link #828
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	Well this episode confirms that Kaito only transferred in during first year of middle school. So as much as I'd like to think that Kaito and Kanna are childhood friends (would have another 'horse' in the race or so to speak), this episode totally debunked it as I have surmised before. Glad to know my osananajimi radar can still weed out false positivies. As for the Mio --> Tetsu --> Kanna triangle... this episode just reinforces that I still don't know where I stand there. While it was certainly d'aww worthy seeing Tetsu comfort Kanna, seeing Mio behind the shed also bawling kinda broke my heart too. T_T What's most interesting though is that Ichika has been on earth before, because she says the place is something she remembers through her memories. Meaning... is it possible that she's the daughter of Onegai Teacher's main couple? (Shippy side also can't help but wonder at the possibility that Kaito and Ichika met before as kids but forgot about it, since Ichika was on earth before. Then logical side kicks shippy side in the nuts saying that Kaito most likely stayed in Tokyo all his life, so the possibility is near zero logically. But one can hope, right? ) __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)

2012-03-05, 20:54	Link #831
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	As expected Kaito doesn't have a problem, but in fact remembered and knew the whole time. That was very brave of Kanna to do that. The triangle drama gets more intriguing. Good thing Lemon helped Kaito out. The ending was simply great. __________________ My Anime List

2012-03-05, 21:56	Link #834
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	Of course it isn't. If Remon states anything, however implausible, must be the truth. She's that awesome! __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)

2012-03-05, 19:11	Link #827
Lexxus YES! Hahahaha Join Date: Jul 2011 Age: 34	I feel sorry for Kanna in this episode. If I were in her situation, I wouldn't have the courage to say something like that to my rival. NEVER! Loved the last 3 minutes of the show before the ending song.

2012-03-05, 20:11	Link #829
Malkuth Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London Age: 43	... and that's all they are doing with the whole alien twist rather underwhelming Anyway, 2/3rds of the cast were crying their guts out this episode, while half of it was heart-broken, and only 1/3rd achieved happiness... on the other hand, I could not stop laughing since the presentation was more fitting to a satyr rather then romance. But there is hope, since there are 3-4 episodes left for something more interesting

2012-03-05, 20:19	Link #830
ThereminVox Guess what time it is? Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Age: 38	I laughed pretty hard at Tetsuro's sister getting the Zoidberg treatment when they went off to the spaceship. The confession was a good payoff, and played very nicely. I just don't particularly like Ichika, or even Kaito that much. All my feels for the Trio of Tragedy. All of them.

2012-03-05, 21:51	Link #833
Xeilo Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011	MIB is not fake.

2012-03-05, 22:02	Link #835
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	So I guess the only secret left is why Ichika is looking for that place. Why would she have memories of it? Could she even be the daughter of Kei and Mizuho after all and she wants to see the place where her parents first met? I just checked and the place where Mizuho landed in Onegai teacher has indeed trees and a lake. Again, sry if this was all mentioned, I didn't read the thread from the beginning

2012-03-05, 23:21	Link #836
zeniselv Staring into your soul. Join Date: Oct 2010	i dont know why, im even used that the protagonist usually dont choose the character i prefer, but i dont like ichika x kaito, it actually pisses me off. __________________

2012-03-06, 00:06	Link #837
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	Problem is that I don't really care for any of the characters or whom they'll end up with. This series feels lacking that something that was in Onegai Teacher series. Also feel this series is trying to hard at being "deep" when it really isn't.

2012-03-06, 00:40	Link #838
TimeSkip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Remon is an MIB agent. How else could she know the ship was not functional right away, and was in the right place and time every time. She probably uses the movies as her report to her boss. What she said about being forever 17 is probably true due to alien's tech. She's going to be a flat chested petite girl for the rest of her life.

2012-03-06, 03:12	Link #840
Worldestroyer IRC lurker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston, MA USA Age: 35	I'm expecting Mizuho to come back from space any episode now to find her /missing/ daughter. Remon is Morino, that due to her initial stand-still will never finish growing up and remains in High School because it's what makes her happy.... hahaha who knows. It's entertaining enough.