Translators

[Sergejack]

It looks like a lot of team are looking for a translator.
Furthermore, it often cocern several team subbing the same Anime.

Why won't translator who are working on some show help other team subbing the same show ?
When the work is done, why not to share it instead of myserely keeping it for just one team ?

Are translators owned by teams ?

[clem-kun]

Originally Posted by Sergejack

Are translators owned by teams?

Not necessarily, but in my case, I, the translator, started the team So of course I'd want to promote my team more...

[ChoBaka]

Originally Posted by Sergejack

It looks like a lot of team are looking for a translator.
Furthermore, it often cocern several team subbing the same Anime.

Why won't translator who are working on some show help other team subbing the same show ?
When the work is done, why not to share it instead of myserely keeping it for just one team ?

Are translators owned by teams ?

If a group wants do to a show but doesn't have a translator for it, they should just let other groups that do have one do it instead.

If, as you said, the translator gave out his/her script to every group asking for it, you'd have a ton of groups relying on the same script. Unless the editors really screw up, there wouldn't be much of a difference in the subs then. And if there's not going to be much of a difference in subs, then why have multiple teams doing the show?

[Access]

Originally Posted by ChoBaka

If a group wants do to a show but doesn't have a translator for it, they should just let other groups that do have one do it instead.

If, as you said, the translator gave out his/her script to every group asking for it, you'd have a ton of groups relying on the same script. Unless the editors really screw up, there wouldn't be much of a difference in the subs then. And if there's not going to be much of a difference in subs, then why have multiple teams doing the show?

I agree, translator is the most indespensible team member so the rest of the team should be supporting him. There's no reason for him to give out his scripts to other groups he has no contact with. I'd rather have 3 groups subbing 3 different shows than 10 groups sharing scripts from one translator and all subbing the same (popular) show.

[outlaw55]

Translators can use their talent as blackmail to force others out of the group (not mentioning any names *cough*Tengouki*cough*) so I don't particually care too much for translators....right now that is....>.>

[Sergejack]

Originally Posted by ChoBaka

If a group wants do to a show but doesn't have a translator for it, they should just let other groups that do have one do it instead.

If, as you said, the translator gave out his/her script to every group asking for it, you'd have a ton of groups relying on the same script. Unless the editors really screw up, there wouldn't be much of a difference in the subs then. And if there's not going to be much of a difference in subs, then why have multiple teams doing the show?

Actually, there's not much of a difference in subs, since they all came from the same dialogue.

And why would there be much differences ? It would be so only if every translators were fakes trying to guess wath's said, but if they aren't they would write down quite the same things.


The main differences between teams are the works of the typesetters and editor. (and sometimes timing).

Otherwise you could really ask : Why does several team sub the same show ?
But that question has already many anwsers.



-Bored to see subbers feeling they'r in some kind of war-

[Perdita]

1. Translation takes quite a bit of time. I remember there was a thread here a while back where this was discussed. For me, it takes me anywhere from 1 hour to 12 hours to translate. Multiply that by the number of episodes per series, and that's a considerable chunk of time.

2. Quite a few translators actually do work for multiple groups....but you have to do a series that the translator wants to do.

3. The reason why multiple groups do a series is because the translator wants to. You can't whip a translator in doing something that they don't like.

- Perdita

[K_R]

And competing is fun.

[Tofusensei]

Plus most fansub translations are pretty lousy anyway. You wouldn't want all the groups using the same translation because it's bound to have errors in it.

-Tofu

[Sergejack]

Originally Posted by Tofusensei

Plus most fansub translations are pretty lousy anyway. You wouldn't want all the groups using the same translation because it's bound to have errors in it.

-Tofu

Wrong, if most are lousy it's because one team "own" the efficient one.
If that translator would share it's work with every team, it would help fansub to improve a lot.
And it would make that translator a very amiable personne.

[Sergejack]

Originally Posted by Perdita

1. Translation takes quite a bit of time. I remember there was a thread here a while back where this was discussed. For me, it takes me anywhere from 1 hour to 12 hours to translate. Multiply that by the number of episodes per series, and that's a considerable chunk of time.

2. Quite a few translators actually do work for multiple groups....but you have to do a series that the translator wants to do.

3. The reason why multiple groups do a series is because the translator wants to. You can't whip a translator in doing something that they don't like.

- Perdita

Because of 1. translators should share theire work.
Where does 2. points that a translator should only work for one team ?
If the translator want to sub a serie (3.), why would he like to see just the team wich got its hand on him be the only one to sub that Anime?.

[Sergejack]

Originally Posted by K_R

And competing is fun.

You like war don't you, Rambo ?

[Perdita]

Just because I work in some fansubbing group does not mean I can control the actions of other fansubbing groups. If I'm translating some series, I can't say to other groups, "Oh, group so-and-so, don't do it, because I'm translating it for so-and-so group."

As for translators sharing translations, some groups do release their scripts to the public. Typically it's only after they have finished the series, though.

Many groups do work together, and many times groups know what other groups are working on, even though it is not announced in public. Personally, however....if a translator wants to do a series, and the group doesn't want to do it, the translator will simply just pack his/her bags and walk to another group who would be willing to do it. Most groups, unless they are horribly mismanaged, will usually try to KEEP translators.

- Perdita

[Access]

Originally Posted by Sergejack

Because of 1. translators should share theire work.
Where does 2. points that a translator should only work for one team ?
If the translator want to sub a serie (3.), why would he like to see just the team wich got its hand on him be the only one to sub that Anime?.

Maybe b'cos that team is made up of people he likes or likes to work with; or he trusts that team; he doesn't want his work mangled or over-/mis-/edited, he doesn't want his work mis-used by unsrupulous groups (sold over e-bay, distributed after licensed, etc.) does it really matter?

It's always up to the individual. If you are a translator, you can handle your own affairs however you like.

[Ayanami9870]

And so, the absurdity of Animesuki forums continues.

Listen, Serge man... you're on to something that might be good, but it's a little on the extreme side. The message I'm getting right now is that you want to decentralize all translators so that the best translator has to share their work with everyone else "not as good," AND also make every group fansub off the same given translation. There's a few problems with that, and the translators here have made these points.

Sometimes the translators own the entire group. They can't leave it. It wouldn't make sense to abandon their own team, especially when they trust it the most. Maybe they get along with those staff members, or they're real life friends. Besides, nothing is stopping them from joining/helping other groups except for themselves.

The "multiple groups doing the same show" thing is only a way to make fansubs diverse. Remember that no translation is perfect. Sometimes a translator thinks another group's work isn't done well enough, or it's been edited poorly, so it doesn't sound natural in english. So, they make their own version in hopes that it is better, or more correct. Or sometimes, it's because groups have different editors. Some are more skilled, or edit better for certain genres, or the team has different styles of english. If you had every group using the same translation, it would be very boring, and a royal waste of time. People who download anime like to have a little bit of selection. Maybe they like one group's editing/translation more than the other, or they're attracted to the nicer colors and fonts (based on their OWN tastes).

You're probably thinking "no, if all translators get together and share, then they'll come out with a 100% perfect translation!" I assure you that's impossible. As Tofusensei said, most groups are lousy with translation, and that's usually because they're not native japanese speakers. Long ago, they were, and they got paid for doing a really good job. Nowadays, we have japanese students, non-native anime fans, people who have lived in Japan for couple of years, and just plain old guys taking high school japanese courses and thinking they're really great -- all of them doing it for free. They're not that talented put together.

You have to remember that changing Japanese to English is one of the hardest things to do because there are so many context-based sentences that leave even native translators guessing. One sentence can have different meanings in different situations, and some japanese words don't have english words for them. So, it can't be 100% no matter how good you are. And since it's so hard to pin down, sharing will only cause translators to fight each other over this and that sentence. That's not sharing; that's arguing. Being in different groups eases that up, and lets downloaders decide which version they want to keep.

This basically explains why translators should stay in their groups. They can join other ones if they want to.

As for the other side of the fence...

I realize many translators out there are pretty selfish at times. Unlike the true, virtuous kinds of transers like runpsicat, who are nice about helping anybody translate anything, most transers are self-centered and do purely the shows they like, not in the name of fansubbing, but just for themselves. It's not that it's wrong, but it's getting a little bothersome that translators never compromise with anybody in doing any other show that they don't like 100%. Insert the story of outlaw55 and Tengouki at Lunar: blackmail.

Seriously, unless you "hate" a show of some sort, you shouldn't rule out working for it if the team might like it, so long that it contributes to the community, as opposed to say... 15 versions of Samurai Deeper Kyo. Multiple versions is okay as long as it isn't overkill. Just enough to whet our appetite and selection, but not so much to make it pointless. My bottom line: you all need to loosen up a bit and remember that it's just a hobby. Serge may be wrong, but you're not completely right either.

Here's my two cents. I've had this idea for a long time. One that can reconcile some of these problems. And that is... make a translation ring. That's right. All translators stay in their own groups, but they have a little club, a little guild of their own. Inside, they can help/proofread each other, or teach other transers or newcomers. And, you can choose to go or not go at all, and if you do, visit there anytime you want. It's a good way to help each other grow, attract more transers, and talk more often about joint projects.

Enter the rant, end the rant.

I salute you.

[Kiva128]

I agree 100% Aya. Well said.

And while the translator ring idea is all well and good, it most likely will never happen, unfortunately. A lot of groups like being in the spotlight, sharing the wealth would only increase competition so like I said, I doubt it will happen. It would be nice if it would though so then I could have some superior translator to teach me stuff. Oh well...

And yeah, as for me I just like translating stuff that no one else is doing. We don't need a jillion versions of one anime when there are zero versions of another.

[Kokushi_Musou]

Originally Posted by Ayanami9870

I realize many translators out there are pretty selfish at times. Unlike the true, virtuous kinds of transers like runpsicat, who are nice about helping anybody translate anything, most transers are self-centered and do purely the shows they like, not in the name of fansubbing, but just for themselves. It's not that it's wrong, but it's getting a little bothersome that translators never compromise with anybody in doing any other show that they don't like 100%. Insert the story of outlaw55 and Tengouki at Lunar: blackmail.

Seriously, unless you "hate" a show of some sort, you shouldn't rule out working for it if the team might like it, so long that it contributes to the community,

Man, make me feel like a criminal. In most groups (or so I like to believe) there usually is some compromise. But in our shoes it is very difficult to get to work on a show if we don't like it (more than a so-so like). Personally I only translate keep both my English and Japanese skills up to date somewhat. If you find that selfish, so be it.

Originally Posted by Ayanami9870

Here's my two cents. I've had this idea for a long time. One that can reconcile some of these problems. And that is... make a translation ring. That's right. All translators stay in their own groups, but they have a little club, a little guild of their own. Inside, they can help/proofread each other, or teach other transers or newcomers. And, you can choose to go or not go at all, and if you do, visit there anytime you want. It's a good way to help each other grow, attract more transers, and talk more often about joint projects.

To some degree this happens. You just apparently don't know about it.

[Access]

Originally Posted by Ayanami9870

wrong, but it's getting a little bothersome that translators never compromise with anybody in doing any other show that they don't like 100%. Insert the story of outlaw55 and Tengouki at Lunar: blackmail.

Seriously, unless you "hate" a show of some sort, you shouldn't rule out working for it if the team might like it, so long that it contributes to the community, as opposed to say... 15 versions of Samurai Deeper Kyo. Multiple versions is okay as long as it isn't overkill. Just enough to whet our appetite and selection, but not so much to make it pointless. My bottom line: you all need to loosen up a bit and remember that it's just a hobby. Serge may be wrong, but you're not completely right either.

1) Why do people include their own ad-hominem or group politic attacks like this thing about 'Lunar' which is unsubstantiated. It's a falacy to treat the unsubstiated as true, I don't care if he says he was involved or not. Even if we take his word for it he still only has his side of the story and not the true story of what happened. 'Blackmail'... it's totally unsubstantiated and shouldn't be brought into a real discussion. It's just as likely to be some guy who hates the group in question for whatever reason... no evidence any truth is actually being told here.

2) I remember doing KKC and our poor translators would flip out in 4-6 episodes apiece. Guu was a similar show. Even Mami was like this at one time. The 'frantic' type shows are often just too much for the poor guys, they go insane even if they are willing. He's completely wrong, you can't force anyone to do things they don't want to. This is volunteer work, not a full-time job, if you don't enjoy it you shouldn't be doing it. Groups where some people try to force others to do things are those short-lived groups that fizzle out after releasing 1 or 2 episodes.

[Lucier]

=O

I translator thread... must think up witty reply... >.>


... ... ... nothing coming... o well ...

Translation isn't something you can learn overnight, or even in a few months...
It takes years of dedicated study/practice... and I mean dedicated... it's not something you can do once a month and suddenly become skilled...

I personally have studied the Japanese language for over 5 years, and I have enjoyed it a lot!
I know translators from total beginners, who are doing their first episodes, to those who are near perfect, having done 100 or even 500+ translations!

We've spent a lot of time learning our skills... and what was being suggested bothers me...

I consider my translations to be my work, my art... and I take great pride in them!

I feel like Serge's "idea" or "request" is to force me to make *my* hard work "Public Domain" ?...=/

Reason I give it it to Lunar is they are my friends, and I trust them with my work...

Now, say you were to pay me... then it's a different story... Pay me 100$, and I'll send you any episode script, or translate an episode for you even!

I think the point you're missing, serge, is that we do this for FUN...
If we want to make our TL's public domain, then that's our choice, and I know some TLs who do!

If, like me, you've made something you really treasure... and you don't wanna share it with others... Then I think that's your right! (Tho, in effect, it IS shared when Lunar releases... but then I can trust that it's being shared in a way that I approve...)

Just my thoughts ~

[Access]

Originally Posted by Lucier

Translation isn't something you can learn overnight, or even in a few months...
It takes years of dedicated study/practice... and I mean dedicated... it's not something you can do once a month and suddenly become skilled...

I personally have studied the Japanese language for over 5 years, and I have enjoyed it a lot!
I know translators from total beginners, who are doing their first episodes, to those who are near perfect, having done 100 or even 500+ translations!

Actually there are 'total immersion' programs that take only 4-6 months, but these are too extreme for most.