Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Mangonel]

I'm guessing up til now Fumitan's relationship with Kudelia has been very professional? That Fumitan is so capable for a 'mere maid' and the fact she didn't wear Kudelia's friendship necklace makes me wonder about her intentions.

[Kurohane]

Fumitan may have been assigned to Kudelia by someone's recommendation, and that person is another one against her actions. However, it's cannot be her father. Otherwise, Kudelia would have suspicions about her as well. Nobliss, maybe?

[Irenesharda]

Well, that was an interesting episode, but I'm glad that we're going back to traveling to Earth. And finally, we're getting some backstory.

Also, Orga's the coolest leader ever. He really is looking out for his boys and they look out for each other.

[glaceon_cute]

A little late but it's an interesting episode. These little talks and character developments are nice, though I would prefer we can get to plot-driving episodes already...

Orga surely is not what he looks like lol I like him more than before, Mika is still bothering the hell out of me because of his lacking of ideal, he hasn't decided anything on his own so far...I guess this gonna be part of his development.

Kudelia and Fumitan are a little like Marina and Shirin, no? It is just that Fumiran is softer than Shirin...

Hope that they finnaly arrive to Earth and we can see some political aspects here. The crew is too naive right now lol.

[Somnus]

Late to the party, but this episode was fan-effing-tastic. This series is turning out too good, it's scary. Read up to page 5/7 (as of this post) and seconding every bit of praise that's been given thus far.

Would read through to the end, but the temptation to reply to a certain someone who sounds like they hope Michael Bay would immediately take over this series is becoming way too strong.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by glaceon_cute

Orga surely is not what he looks like lol I like him more than before, Mika is still bothering the hell out of me because of his lacking of ideal, he hasn't decided anything on his own so far...I guess this gonna be part of his development.

Huh? Mikatsuki even says he decided to kill on his own this episode. He has a dream of getting a farm like Biscuit's grandmother. In what way he's not deciding on his own? He pressures himself to not disappoint Orga because he's afraid he'll be discarded by him (he has abandonment issues) which Orga has soothed now he realizes they are family. Not everyone needs to have ideals. He fights to keep his family from falling apart.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Thess

Huh? Mikatsuki even says he decided to kill on his own this episode. He has a dream of getting a farm like Biscuit's grandmother. In what way he's not deciding on his own? He pressures himself to not disappoint Orga because he's afraid he'll be discarded by him (he has abandonment issues) which Orga has soothed now he realizes they are family. Not everyone needs to have ideals. He fights to keep his family from falling apart.

You could say it's his lack of ideal and detached yet sometimes erratic behavior is what's disturbing. You're right, not every character has to have ideals, but when a character is put as a protagonist, who we'll follow the entire story, you expect him/her to have a sense of human compassion in general towards people or gains it through character development, if he/she is meant to be not in a villain type role. Otherwise, it's gonna be hard for the audience to get attached to and root for that character on his/her journey.

[Tenzen12]

Well yeah it's difficult to treat Mika as main character with his lack of drive and ideal. But if you have problem with it, there is one option:

Just try repeat this: "Real protagonist is Orga, Real protagonist is Orga".

All problems solved. It worked well enough for me to be patient with Mika and give him chance take over show one day in future.

[monster]

Mikazuki's drive is the survival of the people he care about. His ideal is that he can live peacefully with his "family" intact.

[Zantetsuken]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Well yeah it's difficult to treat Mika as main character with his lack of drive and ideal. But if you have problem with it, there is one option:

Just try repeat this: "Real protagonist is Orga, Real protagonist is Orga".

All problems solved. It worked well enough for me to be patient with Mika and give him chance take over show one day in future.

You're confusing main character/protagonist with the concept of the hero (or sometimes villain) who moves the narrative.

The protagonist is the narrative central of the story, in simpler terms he is the view point character, who often times also moves the narrative. But it's not like that in Orphans just as you say. In cases like this the protagonist is called a supporting protagonist.

Another story that's like this is in FFX. It's actually Yuna's quest, Tidus is only along for the ride, but that does not mean Tidus is not important.

[Tenzen12]

I am not confusing anything. Orga is clearly deuteragonist of story as well as "Supporting leader" (think Aragorn). It's not that hard just forget Mika is supposed be important character too if one try.

[Skaddix]

Its easy to forget Mika's Important because he doesnt really shine outside of combat episodes and this Gundam is really quite short on the said fighting episodes.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Meh, considering how much of a timeless classic Patlabor is, and how the MC (Noa Izumi) in that show do little more than piloting the main mech (and following orders) and the show being more of an ensemble cast, I don’t have any problem with Mika being the MC of IBO when he’s just being just part of the group and a bit away from the spotlight like Noa.

An MC doesn’t have to steal the spotlight ala Lelouch or Inaho or Kira. If we got ourselves an ensemble cast like the one in IBO & Patlabor, it’s fine for the MC to just hanging around doing what he need (and can) do as his character dictates, not as story/plot dictates. That will usually lead up to consistent (but not stagnant) characterization which is better for the story.

[Key Board]

someone please save Atra from all these bad relationship ideas flowing into her head

[glaceon_cute]

Originally Posted by Thess

Huh? Mikatsuki even says he decided to kill on his own this episode. He has a dream of getting a farm like Biscuit's grandmother. In what way he's not deciding on his own? He pressures himself to not disappoint Orga because he's afraid he'll be discarded by him (he has abandonment issues) which Orga has soothed now he realizes they are family. Not everyone needs to have ideals. He fights to keep his family from falling apart.

My apologize, I meant he hasn't decided anything regarding about battles. I understand he follows Orga's order because he trusts him. However, he hasn't showed any doubts about these decision and act according to his own thoughts. He was afraid of being abandoned, that's why I said this is gonna be a part of his character development. Though, it still bothers me.

And yeah, his dream of being a farmer is sweet but to me it's just show his feeling of wanting a peaceful life, which everyone would have here, not his desicion.

Yes, not everyone needs ideal, but for a protagonist whose role is inspiring audiences, this is not a good choice. Well, think back, his ideal may have been "I want to protect family" so yeah, I didn't think straight when saying that. I'm just too used to protagonists in Gundam having big clear resolve and ideal about world peace.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Well yeah it's difficult to treat Mika as main character with his lack of drive and ideal. But if you have problem with it, there is one option:

Just try repeat this: "Real protagonist is Orga, Real protagonist is Orga".

All problems solved. It worked well enough for me to be patient with Mika and give him chance take over show one day in future.

I already think that since I'm now following the series for Orga LOL

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Meh, considering how much of a timeless classic Patlabor is, and how the MC (Noa Izumi) in that show do little more than piloting the main mech (and following orders) and the show being more of an ensemble cast, I don’t have any problem with Mika being the MC of IBO when he’s just being just part of the group and a bit away from the spotlight like Noa.

An MC doesn’t have to steal the spotlight ala Lelouch or Inaho or Kira. If we got ourselves an ensemble cast like the one in IBO & Patlabor, it’s fine for the MC to just hanging around doing what he need (and can) do as his character dictates, not as story/plot dictates. That will usually lead up to consistent (but not stagnant) characterization which is better for the story.

Well the show only on ep 10 now so I am not gonna complain about Mika being in the spotlight or not. It's not only spotlight makes a character be protagonist but his influence on the story. Mika actually is in the spotlight, he won almost all the fights there and the only one has Gundam for now. Orga, while his influence is obvious and can be the main character, his spotlight is not much, like, he takes care of all the talkings and Mika takes care of the fights. So I think Mika and Orga actually share the protagonist position.

All the talk about Mika and Orga aside, I'm just that desperated to see the plot to happen because for gundam centralize a group that just wants to make money is not something I expect from a war series...

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Key Board

someone please save Atra from all these bad relationship ideas flowing into her head

I think this is meant for the episode 10 discussion.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

You could say it's his lack of ideal and detached yet sometimes erratic behavior is what's disturbing. You're right, not every character has to have ideals, but when a character is put as a protagonist, who we'll follow the entire story, you expect him/her to have a sense of human compassion in general towards people or gains it through character development, if he/she is meant to be not in a villain type role. Otherwise, it's gonna be hard for the audience to get attached to and root for that character on his/her journey.

I don't remember Amuro fighting for ideals. He fought for his survival and those of the White Base (and later Earth), but ideals? He was fairly pragmatic. Char was the one with ideals-oriented to justify his behavior. I don't remember Kamille fighting for ideals either. Some characters don't need to justify go to kill someone, because to them, it's a job to survive. That's Mikatsuki.

Ideals aren't the same as compassion or empathy, either. Don't mistake them.

Originally Posted by glaceon_cute

Yes, not everyone needs ideal, but for a protagonist whose role is inspiring audiences, this is not a good choice. Well, think back, his ideal may have been "I want to protect family" so yeah, I didn't think straight when saying that. I'm just too used to protagonists in Gundam having big clear resolve and ideal about world peace..

Not every Gundam protagonist cares about that, peace sure, but not because they have an ideal about it (Mikatsuki does care for peace or he wouldn't want to get a farm). Show is made very clear Mika inspires people by capping skulls off: Takaki, Kudelia, Orga are examples.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Thess

I don't remember Amuro fighting for ideals. He fought for his survival and those of the White Base (and later Earth), but ideals? He was fairly pragmatic. Char was the one with ideals-oriented to justify his behavior. I don't remember Kamille fighting for ideals either. Some characters don't need to justify go to kill someone, because to them, it's a job to survive. That's Mikatsuki.

Ideals aren't the same as compassion or empathy, either. Don't mistake them.

Case and point, I don't see many people who like Amuro or Kamille, while Char is loved by the fandom.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

Case and point, I don't see many people who like Amuro or Kamille, while Char is loved by the fandom.

Kamille and Amoru are fairly popular, although none in Gundam can surpass Char. I like the three of them, so.

The point is, you can't make a recently illiterate child soldier give a damn about a "big picture". It's completely unrealistic and forced. He doesn't care about politics, that's why he shrugged off and told Kudelia to do as she wished and he never even knew what she was doing until recently.

He can still be a guy who is compassionate (as you've seen in episode 10 with Atra) and empathetic (when he took Kudelia to the farm to cheer her up), plus a great support for his friends. But he's a kid, this was said thousands of times in the show. There's an ending about his dream farm, he's not going to trail after Kudelia for her dream once his job is done, he wants to get his farm. That's it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

Case and point, I don't see many people who like Amuro or Kamille, while Char is loved by the fandom.

The thing about Gundam franchise is (well, most of them) is that it’s trying to tell a genuine story, not to make a cool and idealized MC that people can idolize (Inaho, Lelouch, etc). Amuro’s character as a reluctant prodigy who is immature (at the start of the series), lack in battle experience, and whose sole motivation is survival perfectly fits the story. Char’s swag and charisma as a leader also perfectly fits the story. And yes, people tend to like characters that stand out more, but that doesn’t mean Amuro is a bad protagonist for the story by any means despite Char overshadowing him as a character. In fact, making Amuro a “glamorous” character who attracted the attention of girls and all that jazz (ala Inaho) would be betraying the story Yatate & Tomino wanted to tell.

And about Mika lacking presence, ideal and not really driving the story: again, look at my Patlabor example above. Patlabor is an ensemble cast of a mecha anime that works wonderfully despite the main character lacking presence and whose main purpose is only to pilot the main mech and follow orders from her commander. If it serves the story well, there’s nothing wrong about it.

And about your comment that stated Mika lacking human compassion above, it’s not that extreme. It’s shown again and again that he possesses human compassion for people who are innocent in his eyes (he saved Atra’s life, he cheered up Kudelia, etc). He only got violent to people who he thought have screwed him or his friends (or will). Sure, his behavior is not exactly normal, but that’s what you should expect from a broken character like Mika who will (hopefully) learn more about moral & compassion through his journey. If anything, Mika is surely a lot more compassionate compared to Heero Yuy who casually aimed his Buster Rifle with the intention to fry a shuttle full of civilians (which he was fully aware of) in the first 10 minutes of Gundam Wing just because it got in his way (thank heavens Zechs and his squad prevented him from doing that).