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totoum · 2012-01-30, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKK

Another possibility.

Spoiler:

Spoiler for ep4:

Ray · 2012-01-30, 17:09

Spoiler for Episode 4:

Another good episode. (no pun intended :<)

Welp, I see I was correct in predicting that the nurse would be the one whose death is caused by an elevator; and what a gory death that was. I guess I should be glad that I've managed to become desensitised to such bloody deaths.

Something worth noting: the doll shopkeeper greeted Kouichi in the exact same manner as the first time he walked into the store. Granted, it was weird, but I really can't see anything malicious with her doing so. She actually seems relatively harmless.

I decided to take the OP part bit by bit, and well, I guess some things are better left unseen because I’m feeling thoroughly spooked after doing so. Anyway, here we go. I'm sure that almost everyone has seen this from the very beginning of the OP. That entity looks to be either a child with an emaciated build, or.. something with small frame like a doll, perhaps? Another thing I noticed is that we're shown Mei's green eye, and in it, we can see the reflection of 3 things: the school, some mansion (seen at the very end as well), and possibly the creepiest out of them all, this. We see what looks to be a face with red eyes and pale skin. Didn't that legend state that Misaki appeared in the group photo as a sickly pale looking person? So what if Mei is able to see the Misaki from 26 years ago through her doll eye? Then there's this. Now I honestly don't have an idea what the hell this thing is, but it's able to wield a knife and move rather fluently. And the last bit is this; just another shadow which looks fairly similar to the one seen in the elevator part of the OP as well as the figure at the very beginning of the OP. However, I don't know if it's the lighting, or if it's the angle the lights are positioned at, but the joints of that figure seem doll-like, no? Of course, there's also the scene wherein a splash occurs in a river but nothing was seen jumping into it. The dolls themselves most likely symbolise the deaths of people, but bleh I hope this means that a certain red head won't literally lose her head.

This got me thinking. Misaki died, yet the class refused to believe so and instead they kept believing that she was in the classroom with them. She eventually appeared in the graduation photo as that sickly pale looking person, but when we take a look at the photo, we only see an empty space where they should be. So what if the actions of the class somehow angered the spirit of the dead Misaki and it 'cursed' the class? I guess the Class 3 of yesteryear must have worked out countermeasures for keeping this Misaki entity at bay. I was thinking that these countermeasures might involve pretending that a real person doesn't actually exist because this Misaki entity attaches itself to a certain person each year? Everything was fine until the oblivious Kouichi showed up. He began interacting with Mei, and perhaps it was this that led to curse coming back into effect. What if the thing that the class pres saw wasn't Mei but Misaki? Wouldn't that have scared her enough to force her to run in the opposite direction?

I want to know moar! :<

Dop · 2012-01-30, 17:30

Loved the Omen reference. A while since I've seen the movies, but I recall one character gets decapitated by a sheet of glass that falls off a van. That's why Kouichi thought of what the nurse had said about there being nobody called Damien in town, while he was standing by the van with the big sheet of plate glass on it.

This episode's horrible death did put the lie to the 'end credit' theory, unless of course the 'end credit' theory only applies to class members. I guess we'll know more when the next class member buys it.

I wonder if the reason they don't just bulldoze the school or at the very least not have a class 3 is because that would cause the curse to spread to all the townsfolk?

Is the woman in the doll gallery really an automata, or is her eyesight just so bad she can vaguely recognise the school uniform but not a face....!

NoemiChan · 2012-01-30, 17:48

Getting freak out by what will happen in episode 3, I decided to just jump to that scene.... well, it's not horrible as it seems (good) at least they know "children's" watching this... too bad she had a short exposure..."she's so damn cute!!!

...The umbrella thing is too impossible to occur in real life... just judging from the point of execution (normally when you slip, you land on your butt and hitting it a couple times going down...similar in cartoons...

DezoPenguin · 2012-01-30, 17:59

Ep. 4 thoughts:

Spoiler for Doll shop:

Spoiler for Wait, we're actually being given information???:

Spoiler for Mei:

Spoiler for Faulty countermeasures:

Spoiler for Reiko:

NoemiChan · 2012-01-30, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Spoiler for Reiko:

In addition, I find her really, really hot....

ars89 · 2012-01-30, 18:07

Find it funny that they now blame Kouchi for breaking some kind of rule and make him an outcast for the recent death. It not even his fault for breaking some rule that he was never told about. So in fact its the class's fault if anything for not letting him know what he can and can't do. Keeping him in the dark even longer is just stupid. So if a curse has started telling him is not going to make it worse.

So the curse attacks not just students but family members and that's why Yukari's mom also died. That may be the reason why Mizuno died as well since she has a brother in class 3. I think the reason why both Yukari and Mizuno died was because Kouchi spoke Mei's full name to both of them. I think she got it right by saying he likes Mei. Glad he confronted that guy who promised him some information about the situation. Since Akazawa is in control of countermeasures, i think she dropped the ball.

So Kouchi's aunt is also acting a bit strange now. Interesting that she was also in class 3. I think the lady that Kouchi saw go up the stairs before he entered the shop might be the one who makes the dolls. Interesting that the store clerk didn't remember Kouchi and used the same greeting. I think maybe she says there are no other customers because she doesn't consider Mei a customer. Mei might actually live there since she always pops out when looking at her doll.

Ray · 2012-01-30, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dop

Loved the Omen reference. A while since I've seen the movies, but I recall one character gets decapitated by a sheet of glass that falls off a van. That's why Kouichi thought of what the nurse had said about there being nobody called Damien in town, while he was standing by the van with the big sheet of plate glass on it.

Oh, so that's what all that was about. It totally went over my head. I'm glad he managed to save his classmate from that particularly bloody fate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

In addition, I find her really, really hot....

Oh, hell yes. For that reason alone I hope she survives. I think she was hiding something in this episode. Like numerous people have said, something felt really off about her behavior, and I don't think it was just because of her headaches.

Utsuro no Hako · 2012-01-30, 18:44

Quote:

Spoiler for Reiko:

Spoiler:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aphrah

Oh, so that's what all that was about.

Yeah, Damien the Antichrist was born on 6 June -- 6/6, sorta like the Tanabata of Evil -- which is why the nurse made a comment about his appointment's date.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-01-30, 18:45

First rule of fight club, you do not talk about fight club.

Probably the same thing here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dop

I wonder if the reason they don't just bulldoze the school or at the very least not have a class 3 is because that would cause the curse to spread to all the townsfolk?

From what we can tell from this episode, this curse doesn't happen very often at all, it's almost like a folktale during the time this story starts, plus it doesn't seem like everybody believes in it save for the students directly involve.

You can't bulldoze a school on a ghost story, not in a small town like this.

NoemiChan · 2012-01-30, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You can't bulldoze a school on a ghost story, not in a small town like this.

Spoiler for Probable Ending:

And another... did anyone notice in Ep 1 at the elevated, there is no "4th floor"

sa547 · 2012-01-30, 19:32

Again, there is no 4th floor -- in Japan it's associated with bad luck and death, just like the absence of a 13th floor.

----------------
Watched this episode, and afterwards cursing silently. Whoever here correctly predicted the third death should get a bagful of chocolate chip cookies.

Fear in this town has gone completely viral, and as the body count rises, it becomes more infectious by the passing day. The myth is beginning to take shape, getting bigger.

Our boy, well, almost everyone seem to be keeping a total conspiracy, keeping truth away from him, a coverup of what really happened combined with a collective sense of trauma. The more he tries to know, the more the fear is exacerbated until the myth becomes all too real.

Should the novel be licensed to be read in English, I'll be buying a copy. Excellent piece of work this show is. 5/5.

Can't wait to see more.

Arya · 2012-01-30, 20:04

Intriguing episode once again. I liked how in the first part people were asking the same questions we did here

But the Op is really out of place, I was dipping into the creepy atmosphere from the very beginning and then that music ... meh.

Spoiler for ep. 4:

Need to go to sleep.

germanturkey · 2012-01-30, 20:07

WAIIIIIII?!?!!? i was just thinking to myself the whole ep,

Spoiler:

pacing of the story is slow, but i guess it makes the wait more tense...

Dengar · 2012-01-30, 20:12

Okay, I think I have enough information to form my own theories:

1) The reason why people even bother sending their children to that school:

Well that one's easy, once the kids are in the designated class, there's nothing anyone can do about it anymore. Taking them out probably wouldn't make a difference. There might also be something about the conditions of the curse itself that would make it a -seriously bad idea- to take the kids out of the class.

2) The question of Misaki Mei's "existence" or not:

Might have something to do with, again, the conditions of the curse. It might be that each year has "a designated Misaki". In an effort to make some kind of malicious entity disappear, or at least keep it at bay, an entity "willed" into existence by a refusal to accept the original Misaki's death, the "designated Misaki" must be "willed" out of existence by refusing to accept her existence.

3) Why Sakakibara isn't being told anything about this:

Again, most likely has something to do with the nature of the curse. Probably straight-out telling Sakakibara how it works proably breaks about a dozen rules that will most likely make things worse. The hot countermeasures girl is probably trying to figure out how on earth she is going to break the news to a transfer student without inevitably making things worse. "Don't interact with Misaki Mei" Is a sure-fire way to make sure that Mei's existence is verified, which according to my point 2, is something you really shouldn't do.

4) Why a transfer student is put into class 3 in the first place:

The school principal is a giant nubcake. That is all.

Wandering_Youth · 2012-01-30, 20:22

A part of me feels like the whole class dug their own grave in the very beginning of this anime by not telling Kouichi the whole entire truth and now it seems like it's too late and people are jumping in their graves slowly.

Hmm, could the lady we see going up to the second floor of the doll shop be Mei's cousin?

Spoiler for Ooooh nurse!:

TurkeyPotPie · 2012-01-30, 20:27

So the nurse is gone, poor Sakakibara missed his chance. I thought she was going to jump his bones any second.

The nurse's death was kind of silly, like the last one. An elevator falling like that from just the cables snapping...yeah, no. I guess the curse disabled all the other safety backups as well.

Dengar · 2012-01-30, 20:28

The actual death itself may have been instantaneous, but that was a looooong fall. Couple that with the fact that perceived relative time slows down during such events, and.. *shudders* Definitely not a way -I- would like to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurkeyPotPie

I guess the curse disabled all the other safety backups as well.

What's so odd about that? A killing curse wouldn't be very effective if it killed in a half-assed way.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-01-30, 20:30

Coincidence or not, I want to point out that in the doll shop, the thing that ended his conversation with Misaki was a doll falling

Assuming it was intentional, that's one heck of a foreshadowing.

totoum · 2012-01-30, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

4) Why a transfer student is put into class 3 in the first place:

The school principal is a giant nubcake. That is all.

And if Misaki is real then was there a conversation like this:

Teacher: Don't put the new kid in class 3,it's cursed

Principal:Yeah right,and I'm the pope

Teacher:to counter the curse we need to complety ignore a student and pretend she doesn't exist

Principal:sure go right ahead.

2012-01-30, 17:09	Link #802
Ray Garnet Join Date: Dec 2011 Age: 29	Spoiler for Episode 4: Another good episode. (no pun intended :<) Welp, I see I was correct in predicting that the nurse would be the one whose death is caused by an elevator; and what a gory death that was. I guess I should be glad that I've managed to become desensitised to such bloody deaths. Something worth noting: the doll shopkeeper greeted Kouichi in the exact same manner as the first time he walked into the store. Granted, it was weird, but I really can't see anything malicious with her doing so. She actually seems relatively harmless. I decided to take the OP part bit by bit, and well, I guess some things are better left unseen because I’m feeling thoroughly spooked after doing so. Anyway, here we go. I'm sure that almost everyone has seen this from the very beginning of the OP. That entity looks to be either a child with an emaciated build, or.. something with small frame like a doll, perhaps? Another thing I noticed is that we're shown Mei's green eye, and in it, we can see the reflection of 3 things: the school, some mansion (seen at the very end as well), and possibly the creepiest out of them all, this. We see what looks to be a face with red eyes and pale skin. Didn't that legend state that Misaki appeared in the group photo as a sickly pale looking person? So what if Mei is able to see the Misaki from 26 years ago through her doll eye? Then there's this. Now I honestly don't have an idea what the hell this thing is, but it's able to wield a knife and move rather fluently. And the last bit is this; just another shadow which looks fairly similar to the one seen in the elevator part of the OP as well as the figure at the very beginning of the OP. However, I don't know if it's the lighting, or if it's the angle the lights are positioned at, but the joints of that figure seem doll-like, no? Of course, there's also the scene wherein a splash occurs in a river but nothing was seen jumping into it. The dolls themselves most likely symbolise the deaths of people, but bleh I hope this means that a certain red head won't literally lose her head. This got me thinking. Misaki died, yet the class refused to believe so and instead they kept believing that she was in the classroom with them. She eventually appeared in the graduation photo as that sickly pale looking person, but when we take a look at the photo, we only see an empty space where they should be. So what if the actions of the class somehow angered the spirit of the dead Misaki and it 'cursed' the class? I guess the Class 3 of yesteryear must have worked out countermeasures for keeping this Misaki entity at bay. I was thinking that these countermeasures might involve pretending that a real person doesn't actually exist because this Misaki entity attaches itself to a certain person each year? Everything was fine until the oblivious Kouichi showed up. He began interacting with Mei, and perhaps it was this that led to curse coming back into effect. What if the thing that the class pres saw wasn't Mei but Misaki? Wouldn't that have scared her enough to force her to run in the opposite direction? I want to know moar! :< Last edited by Ray; 2012-01-30 at 19:52.

2012-01-30, 17:59	Link #805
DezoPenguin Beta by Accident Author Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Maine Age: 52	Ep. 4 thoughts: Spoiler for Doll shop: I see everyone else noticed the doll shop owner saving exactly the same thing this time as in Episode 2. Since we saw the younger woman walk in just before, is the owner a doll or automaton and the younger woman the puppet-master? Spoiler for Wait, we're actually being given information???: Interesting how the teaser sequence was used to explain the curse to the audience while keeping Kouichi in the dark. That's pretty standard suspense writing, to give us just enough information so that we could see what was coming (for example, when Nurse Mizuno mentioned that she had a brother in Class 3 after we'd learned the curse hits family members, too), but holding back from the characters so that they push blindly on. Of course, good suspense writing makes sure that our own information is also incomplete so that we can't really "rely" on our information... Spoiler for Mei: The question of Mei's reality is evidently going to be dragged out for several more episodes. But at least Kouichi is asking the right questions now. Spoiler for Faulty countermeasures: As several other people (totoum, for example), have pointed out...isn't it incredibly stupid to have class rules that must be followed or else people die, and then not tell them to the new student? That Izumi was absent the first day, okay, I can see why people would hold back then, but why didn't Izumi immediately grab Kouichi on Day 2 and tell him everything he's supposed to do at once while hoping he didn't screw up the first day? You can't tell me that she said, "Oh, he was up on the roof talking to Mei? Whoops, guess all we can do is wait and see if somebody dies, now." Unless a really good explanation is proffered later on, this is pretty much the biggest plot hole thus far. Spoiler for Reiko: Aunt's behavior is weird... Something is not right there. __________________ RadiantBeam's Complete Index to the Shadowverse

2012-01-30, 18:07	Link #807
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	Find it funny that they now blame Kouchi for breaking some kind of rule and make him an outcast for the recent death. It not even his fault for breaking some rule that he was never told about. So in fact its the class's fault if anything for not letting him know what he can and can't do. Keeping him in the dark even longer is just stupid. So if a curse has started telling him is not going to make it worse. So the curse attacks not just students but family members and that's why Yukari's mom also died. That may be the reason why Mizuno died as well since she has a brother in class 3. I think the reason why both Yukari and Mizuno died was because Kouchi spoke Mei's full name to both of them. I think she got it right by saying he likes Mei. Glad he confronted that guy who promised him some information about the situation. Since Akazawa is in control of countermeasures, i think she dropped the ball. So Kouchi's aunt is also acting a bit strange now. Interesting that she was also in class 3. I think the lady that Kouchi saw go up the stairs before he entered the shop might be the one who makes the dolls. Interesting that the store clerk didn't remember Kouchi and used the same greeting. I think maybe she says there are no other customers because she doesn't consider Mei a customer. Mei might actually live there since she always pops out when looking at her doll. __________________ My Anime List

2012-01-30, 19:32	Link #812
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	Again, there is no 4th floor -- in Japan it's associated with bad luck and death, just like the absence of a 13th floor. ---------------- Watched this episode, and afterwards cursing silently. Whoever here correctly predicted the third death should get a bagful of chocolate chip cookies. Fear in this town has gone completely viral, and as the body count rises, it becomes more infectious by the passing day. The myth is beginning to take shape, getting bigger. Our boy, well, almost everyone seem to be keeping a total conspiracy, keeping truth away from him, a coverup of what really happened combined with a collective sense of trauma. The more he tries to know, the more the fear is exacerbated until the myth becomes all too real. Should the novel be licensed to be read in English, I'll be buying a copy. Excellent piece of work this show is. 5/5. Can't wait to see more. __________________

2012-01-30, 20:04	Link #813
Arya Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Intriguing episode once again. I liked how in the first part people were asking the same questions we did here But the Op is really out of place, I was dipping into the creepy atmosphere from the very beginning and then that music ... meh. Spoiler for ep. 4: I noticed quite the same things you noticed so I don't have much more to say. Talking about the aunt, if it were true that Kouichi mom died as she was her sister, and I think it is quite sure, why the aunt doesn't link that event with the current events? You have your nephew who's snooping well and truly around, so be smart. Don't die on me like the cute nurse did. At least bring that Indian pigeon with you. And I'ma bit confused on the first days of Kouichi school. He was hospitalized back then, so didn't he come back to school some days after the first day? But putting that aside, Akazawa could have told him about the curse at the hospital if the rule to not talking about it during school year were true. But it is quite plausible that they don't know what to do because the curse does't work each year. So, if usually the first rule worked why change that? It looks like a sort of paradox. If the rule is true, if I talk about Mei someone will die among me, my interlocutor and our relative. So, why do I have to risk my life? On the other side we have someone who doesn't know anything that has a tendency to be intrigued by horror stories and is obsessed by Mei. The flaw here is that Kouichi seems to be untainted by the curse ... until now (antieeeee). Oh, and Mei herself, if she is real, didn't she talk about her other in the first place? Back to the rule/paradox, even if it's not an evidence, we have/had two outsider relatives, the first kept quiet, the second not. Who's dead who's not? Need to go to sleep. __________________ *The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.*

2012-01-30, 17:30	Link #803
Dop Mmmm.... Join Date: Sep 2006	Loved the Omen reference. A while since I've seen the movies, but I recall one character gets decapitated by a sheet of glass that falls off a van. That's why Kouichi thought of what the nurse had said about there being nobody called Damien in town, while he was standing by the van with the big sheet of plate glass on it. This episode's horrible death did put the lie to the 'end credit' theory, unless of course the 'end credit' theory only applies to class members. I guess we'll know more when the next class member buys it. I wonder if the reason they don't just bulldoze the school or at the very least not have a class 3 is because that would cause the curse to spread to all the townsfolk? Is the woman in the doll gallery really an automata, or is her eyesight just so bad she can vaguely recognise the school uniform but not a face....!

2012-01-30, 17:48	Link #804
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	Getting freak out by what will happen in episode 3, I decided to just jump to that scene.... well, it's not horrible as it seems (good) at least they know "children's" watching this... too bad she had a short exposure..."she's so damn cute!!! ...The umbrella thing is too impossible to occur in real life... just judging from the point of execution (normally when you slip, you land on your butt and hitting it a couple times going down...similar in cartoons...

2012-01-30, 20:07	Link #814
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	WAIIIIIII?!?!!? i was just thinking to myself the whole ep, Spoiler: i hope the nurse doesn't die, she's too kind. pacing of the story is slow, but i guess it makes the wait more tense... __________________ Aria is the best series EVER. Rewatch Origination with me. Blessed are those who listen to headphones, for they listen to the sound of heaven.

2012-01-30, 20:12	Link #815
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Okay, I think I have enough information to form my own theories: 1) The reason why people even bother sending their children to that school: Well that one's easy, once the kids are in the designated class, there's nothing anyone can do about it anymore. Taking them out probably wouldn't make a difference. There might also be something about the conditions of the curse itself that would make it a -seriously bad idea- to take the kids out of the class. 2) The question of Misaki Mei's "existence" or not: Might have something to do with, again, the conditions of the curse. It might be that each year has "a designated Misaki". In an effort to make some kind of malicious entity disappear, or at least keep it at bay, an entity "willed" into existence by a refusal to accept the original Misaki's death, the "designated Misaki" must be "willed" out of existence by refusing to accept her existence. 3) Why Sakakibara isn't being told anything about this: Again, most likely has something to do with the nature of the curse. Probably straight-out telling Sakakibara how it works proably breaks about a dozen rules that will most likely make things worse. The hot countermeasures girl is probably trying to figure out how on earth she is going to break the news to a transfer student without inevitably making things worse. "Don't interact with Misaki Mei" Is a sure-fire way to make sure that Mei's existence is verified, which according to my point 2, is something you really shouldn't do. 4) Why a transfer student is put into class 3 in the first place: The school principal is a giant nubcake. That is all.

2012-01-30, 20:22	Link #816
Wandering_Youth lost in wonder forever... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: edge of my dream in the land of twilight...ZzzZzZ	Episode 4 A part of me feels like the whole class dug their own grave in the very beginning of this anime by not telling Kouichi the whole entire truth and now it seems like it's too late and people are jumping in their graves slowly. Hmm, could the lady we see going up to the second floor of the doll shop be Mei's cousin? Spoiler for Ooooh nurse!: Well at least the nurse kicked the bucket in a more pain-less way. It's pretty much instant death at the way she died and not left to hang like a bleeding pig. __________________

2012-01-30, 20:27	Link #817
TurkeyPotPie fushigi ojisan Join Date: Jan 2011	So the nurse is gone, poor Sakakibara missed his chance. I thought she was going to jump his bones any second. The nurse's death was kind of silly, like the last one. An elevator falling like that from just the cables snapping...yeah, no. I guess the curse disabled all the other safety backups as well.

2012-01-30, 20:30	Link #819
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Coincidence or not, I want to point out that in the doll shop, the thing that ended his conversation with Misaki was a doll *falling* Assuming it was intentional, that's one heck of a foreshadowing. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia