Who's actually scared of what's happening in the Mid East?

[aahhsin]

Seeing that my other thread got locked for some reason...

With Yassin dead, and all Muslims pretty much going after the Jews now. And Arafat is being threatened. and some of them are blaming the United states.

Hell's going to break loose. What's your thoughts? If you don't care, you really should.

[Lexander]

Muslims pretty much going after the Jews and getting shot, just like it's always been. It's funny how you're actually worried about the Israelis and not the Muslims .

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by aahhsin

Seeing that my other thread got locked for some reason...

For some reason? I think I explained my reasons well enough. Since this thread is a bit less inflamatory and actually bothers to explain its point, I think I will let it live for now. In the future if you want to recreate a thread that gets closed, please PM a moderator and ask for permission.

BTW I'd recommend that you PM the same moderator that closed the thread. A different one is more likely to refuse you since we don't like to step on each other's toes. One of us is not likely to agree to something that another already closed.

PS. Perhaps this should have been a PM, but you seem to have disabled your ability to receive PMs in your UserCP.

[FinFangFoom]

I'm not really scared, just curious as to how this will turn out. I think the guy got what he deserved, I hope they don't stop there. It's funny how they're threatening retaliation, if they had a means to retaliate they would have already done it before the missle was even launched.

[whatever123]

Originally Posted by FinFangFoom

I'm not really scared, just curious as to how this will turn out. I think the guy got what he deserved, I hope they don't stop there. It's funny how they're threatening retaliation, if they had a means to retaliate they would have already done it before the missle was even launched.

its hard opening a thread like this without big flame war

but i am curious would u like to explain why the man got what he deserved?

[FinFangFoom]

The man helped plan and suport the bombing of innocent civilians, so he had a bomb dropped on him. What goes around comes around.

And I should clarify. I realize now when I said "I hope they don't stop there." it implies that I support the killing and escalation of this war, but that's not really the case. I don't know what the best solution for this is, I just hope that whatever is done, works.

[NoSanninWa]

I would like to point out my 2 cents on this issue. It doesn't bother me that Yassin was assassinated. He deserves it as surely as Osama bin Laden does.

What bothers me is the way that he was assassinated. He was leaving a mosque along with a crowd of other people after morning prayers. Then he, and the crowd, are hit with a barrage of missles from a helicopter. In addition to him, there were 7 dead and 17 wounded. This is because they fired missles into a crowd leaving a place of worship. These kinds of civilian casualties aren't so much an assassination as a terrorist attack by the Israeli military.

If there were seriously trying to assassinate Yassim would it have been harder to get a guy with a sniper rifle into place? He goes to this mosque all the time (it is 150 feet from his home) so it shouldn't have been hard to plan. Heck, they've been assassinating with helicopter missles for sometime. About half the time they miss their target and kill civilians in the crowd. Surely a sniper is a more certain means of execution. This time they just got lucky enough to kill their target. The only reason to do it this way is to terrorize the Palestinian people.

I'm all in favor of assassinating terrorists. They just shouldn't become terrorists themselves to do it.

[FinFangFoom]

That makes sense. But it would be interesting to learn a little bit about the other people killed and injured with him. I just assumed that he probably surrounded himself with his supporters, people who are part of his Hamas group and that help or support terrorist activity just like himself. But it's also possible that they are innocent people caught in the crossfire.

Has anything been reported on that?

[whatever123]

as for yassin do you have any better way to fight back the israeli other than bombing, whenever a solution is proposed it was either vetoed by the US or neglected by the israelis.

bombing civilians is wrong it has been condenmed by all major muslim leaders but thats the only way to fight back in the case of palestine, osama bin laden is a different story. in the past 50 years till this day the israelis had bombed thousands of palestenian civilians what ariel sharon does and what his predecesors did is no different than terrorism but never once they were condenmed for thier acts every week several palestenians die by the hand of the israelis but no body ever complained except the palestenians themselves.

[Ledgem]

What it comes down to is which side you want to start with. If you begin along the chain with the Palestinians bombing the Israelis, then the Palestinians are in the wrong and every Israeli act of violence is justified. Start with the Israelis bombing the Palestinians, and the Israelis are the villains.

It's a vicious cycle, and a rather complex situation. It also seems like many people today who take up the argument over which side is right don't focus over why there's currently a dispute, only that side A is attacking side B, causing side B to retaliate.

I don't believe that violence on the part of either is really "right," but I can understand the Israeli point of view a little better than I can the Palestinians' (and I will note that I'm probably biased because I've been to Israel many times in my life). The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens and the state that it controls; when you have a group of people at your borders calling for the death of every single person within your borders and for the complete destruction of your state, one must really ask what sort of reasoning can be done. As we all know, it isn't exactly conventional, either. It isn't a government declaration; if the Israeli government has any lines of communication to the leaders of these groups, I'd imagine that they're very thin. Negotiation, therefore, becomes difficult in that alone, and it's only made worse by the bloodlust instilled into the opposing people. In some ways, it seems almost cult-like; I mean, you have fanatics that are willing to kill themselves to take down 20 people. To the common person, this shows that something is wrong; it's barbaric, it's violent, and above all, it's dangerous. To the Palestinians' credit, I suppose one could say that they do it out of desperation. What better way to attract attention to your cause than by stirring things up? They don't have the power to disrupt economies, and they don't have the ability to broadcast their stance. This gives them press, and it forces the issue to be discussed (land disputes are the origin of all of this, if I remember correctly, though now it's that combined with a number of inhumane crimes and such).

In light of such a mentality, what can Israel do? They were negotiating with Arafat to work with him to get rid of the fanatics (terrorists seems to be the word of choice these days), but Arafat, obviously put between "a rock and a hard place," couldn't do much, and even performed some acts that could be considered detrimental to the cause (releasing prisoners from jail in response to an Israeli raid that was in response to a bombing that was in response to...). Israel is likely resorting to scare tactics because they can't really do anything else but to try to remove the dangerous ideologists and scare the rest into not thinking that way.

Obviously the best solution would be one of understanding: Israel is there to stay, and so is Palestine. The Palestinians should realize that demanding that Israel just get up and move because they're on "their" land is completely unreasonable, and that their acts are detrimental to their own future. As I've said before, I'm biased, and I do sympathize with Israel. I don't like that they go and seek retribution every time a fanatic blows himself up, but whether they do or don't, more fanatics will come. Though I may be misunderstanding this point myself, I believe that many people don't see this clearly. The Palestinian terror forces may currently be riding on the anger of Israeli military raids and killings, but even if Israel were to completely halt their attacks, the Palestinian groups would still keep coming at Israel. They want Israel completely removed; there's no reasoning with that. In such a situation, not striking back is submissive; it's a sign of weakness, it allows them to gather securely and put up stronger attacks, and people can join in without fear of retaliation.

It's a very problematic situation, and it won't be resolved until more understanding comes into the minds of the Palestinians. I've never heard of an Israeli seriously desiring the destruction of every single Palestinian, but I have heard of many Palestinians desiring the destruction of Israel and its inhabitants, and that sort of mentality is what drives the fundamentalist terror forces.

[whatever123]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

What it comes down to is which side you want to start with. If you begin along the chain with the Palestinians bombing the Israelis, then the Palestinians are in the wrong and every Israeli act of violence is justified. Start with the Israelis bombing the Palestinians, and the Israelis are the villains.

It's a vicious cycle, and a rather complex situation. It also seems like many people today who take up the argument over which side is right don't focus over why there's currently a dispute, only that side A is attacking side B, causing side B to retaliate.

I don't believe that violence on the part of either is really "right," but I can understand the Israeli point of view a little better than I can the Palestinians' (and I will note that I'm probably biased because I've been to Israel many times in my life). The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens and the state that it controls; when you have a group of people at your borders calling for the death of every single person within your borders and for the complete destruction of your state, one must really ask what sort of reasoning can be done. As we all know, it isn't exactly conventional, either. It isn't a government declaration; if the Israeli government has any lines of communication to the leaders of these groups, I'd imagine that they're very thin. Negotiation, therefore, becomes difficult in that alone, and it's only made worse by the bloodlust instilled into the opposing people. In some ways, it seems almost cult-like; I mean, you have fanatics that are willing to kill themselves to take down 20 people. To the common person, this shows that something is wrong; it's barbaric, it's violent, and above all, it's dangerous. To the Palestinians' credit, I suppose one could say that they do it out of desperation. What better way to attract attention to your cause than by stirring things up? They don't have the power to disrupt economies, and they don't have the ability to broadcast their stance. This gives them press, and it forces the issue to be discussed (land disputes are the origin of all of this, if I remember correctly, though now it's that combined with a number of inhumane crimes and such).

In light of such a mentality, what can Israel do? They were negotiating with Arafat to work with him to get rid of the fanatics (terrorists seems to be the word of choice these days), but Arafat, obviously put between "a rock and a hard place," couldn't do much, and even performed some acts that could be considered detrimental to the cause (releasing prisoners from jail in response to an Israeli raid that was in response to a bombing that was in response to...). Israel is likely resorting to scare tactics because they can't really do anything else but to try to remove the dangerous ideologists and scare the rest into not thinking that way.

Obviously the best solution would be one of understanding: Israel is there to stay, and so is Palestine. The Palestinians should realize that demanding that Israel just get up and move because they're on "their" land is completely unreasonable, and that their acts are detrimental to their own future. As I've said before, I'm biased, and I do sympathize with Israel. I don't like that they go and seek retribution every time a fanatic blows himself up, but whether they do or don't, more fanatics will come. Though I may be misunderstanding this point myself, I believe that many people don't see this clearly. The Palestinian terror forces may currently be riding on the anger of Israeli military raids and killings, but even if Israel were to completely halt their attacks, the Palestinian groups would still keep coming at Israel. They want Israel completely removed; there's no reasoning with that. In such a situation, not striking back is submissive; it's a sign of weakness, it allows them to gather securely and put up stronger attacks, and people can join in without fear of retaliation.

It's a very problematic situation, and it won't be resolved until more understanding comes into the minds of the Palestinians. I've never heard of an Israeli seriously desiring the destruction of every single Palestinian, but I have heard of many Palestinians desiring the destruction of Israel and its inhabitants, and that sort of mentality is what drives the fundamentalist terror forces.

although i disagree with you're point of view but i highly respect you're opinion especialy since that its written very well

i guess it's pointless to furthur discuss this matter because in the end it finaly comes down to whether you believe that israel should exist or not and based on that you will view both ends action as either protective or offensive

i believe that any further discussion will only lead to a flame war not that i wont particvipate in well moderated discussion but it isnt likely in an anime forum

[Megane]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

I'm all in favor of assassinating terrorists. They just shouldn't become terrorists themselves to do it.

Interesting, would it be out of scope or flame-inciting to ask whether you are a supporter of war in general? I'm reading your opinion like you favour death over other solutions.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be killed in this world without someone else feeling some form of terror, no matter how "bad" the person was. So I can't help but find your statement a little contradictory.

I didn't go over the top with that, did I?

[Serendipity]

I don't find it scary at all, the Arabs and Jews have been fighting since time began anyways so I am not overly worried, the UN will probably intervene anyways...as long Australia or New Zealand doesn't have to send troops over again...

[u&t]

Arabs and jews actually had pretty good relations up until the end of WWII. It's actually christians that has been killing jews since time began.

Zionists were laughed at and called extremists/fashists up until Hitler came. Around 1900 5% of the palestinian population was jewish and relations between jews and arabs were good.

[whatever123]

well the jews you are talking about are arab jews they existed in the arab lands for more than a 600 years

the current conflict only began after the zionest wanted to establish a state in palestine

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by aahhsin

Hell's going to break loose. What's your thoughts? If you don't care, you really should.

I don't care because there isn't anything that can be done about it. Sure, you could nuke them and vaporize all traces of them (the US certainly has that potential, along with a total idiot in charge of the country), but that still really wouldn't solve the problem.

Religion is behind everything that is going on in the middle east. If you can get rid of religion, you can get rid of MOST of the fighting.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by whatever123

although i disagree with you're point of view but i highly respect you're opinion especialy since that its written very well

i guess it's pointless to furthur discuss this matter because in the end it finaly comes down to whether you believe that israel should exist or not and based on that you will view both ends action as either protective or offensive

i believe that any further discussion will only lead to a flame war not that i wont particvipate in well moderated discussion but it isnt likely in an anime forum

I am neither muslim nor jew nor christian. But I do understand the basics of these religions. They praise peace and freedom over destrcution and delimination. So there must be other reasons behind this "not officially announced war" (what follows now is my opinion). Isreal does not have the right to expell the palestinian from the state Isreal. Its not nice that Israel claims the fertile land all for itself and let the palestine people starve in a waste land (They could at least give them enough water (from the river Jordan). But the israeli nearly branch all the water off for themselves).
If I was palestinian (disregarding the religion), I would find this neither just nor justified. On the other handside it would neither be just nor justified to expell all isrealis and break up the state Israel. People should be able to live with each other... and if there wasn't always the hardliners (who (imo) disrespect a religion, because in a result of their upstiring they drive people to do cruel things which are against the basics of the religion...), this could be a good solution. But sadly there are enough unreasonable people on both sides who claim all for themselves (or their unreasonable matters).
Besides the fact that it is stupid to fight for justice with terrorism (one will just earn hate instead of acceptance of ones concern), I assume Israel would accept palestine inhabitants, if there wasn't the terrorism. Israeli know about the unjustice of forced expulsion since that is what happend to them in the WWII.
Well appeacement politic won't change things over night, but its (imo) the only solution to the problem. Many people are selfish... just driven by hate... trying to change things by force... always hungry for vengeance... and sadly preventing future peace. When people are born, they do not naturally hate each other. But an atmosphear of hate will result in hate between palestine and isreali of the future generation. One should think human being are intelligent enough to know this fact.

[whatever123]

Originally Posted by Jinto Lin

I am neither muslim nor jew nor christian. But I do understand the basics of these religions. They praise peace and freedom over destrcution and delimination. So there must be other reasons behind this "not officially announced war" (what follows now is my opinion). Isreal does not have the right to expell the palestinian from the state Isreal. Its not nice that Israel claims the fertile land all for itself and let the palestine people starve in a waste land (They could at least give them enough water (from the river Jordan). But the israeli nearly branch all the water off for themselves).
If I was palestinian (disregarding the religion), I would find this neither just nor justified. On the other handside it would neither be just nor justified to expell all isrealis and break up the state Israel. People should be able to live with each other... and if there wasn't always the hardliners (who (imo) disrespect a religion, because in a result of their upstiring they drive people to do cruel things which are against the basics of the religion...), this could be a good solution. But sadly there are enough unreasonable people on both sides who claim all for themselves (or their unreasonable matters).
Besides the fact that it is stupid to fight for justice with terrorism (one will just earn hate instead of acceptance of ones concern), I assume Israel would except palestine inhabitants, if there wasn't the terrorism. Israeli know about the unjustice of forced expulsion since that is was happend to them in the WWII.
Well appeacement politic won't change things over night, but its (imo) the only solution to the problem. But many people are selfish... just driven by hate... trying to change things by force... always hungry for vengeance... and sadly preventing future peace. When people are born, they do not naturally hate each other. But an atmosphear of hate will result in hate between palestine and isreali of the future generation.

the thing is it's hard for people to just "forgive and forget" you've got the death of Innocent people on both sides

as per accept the israeli country i am sorry but i cant accept a country that was established the same way it has, but that is just my opinion and nothing more. i apologize if i have offended anyone

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by whatever123

the thing is it's hard for people to just "forgive and forget" you've got the death of Innocent people on both sides

as per accept the israeli country i am sorry but i cant accept a country that was established the same way it has, but that is just my opinion and nothing more. i apologize if i have offended anyone

Well when we forget about the country and think only about the human beings. Is it possible for them to live with each other? Might it be possible to alter laws and stuff so that people of two religions can live together?
Well to fight injustice with injust methods will not lead to any soltuion in this conflict. Nobody can undo things that happened 50 years ago, and it sounds however unfair to blame new generations for things they were not responsible for... but everybody is responsible for their future.

[hobobaggins]

Originally Posted by boneyjellyfish

I don't care because there isn't anything that can be done about it. Sure, you could nuke them and vaporize all traces of them (the US certainly has that potential, along with a total idiot in charge of the country), but that still really wouldn't solve the problem.

Religion is behind everything that is going on in the middle east. If you can get rid of religion, you can get rid of MOST of the fighting.

really, you cant erradicate religion from a populace. it is far easier to irradicate them than to brainwash a race of people.

I hold with nosanninwa on the sniper idea... but the extication would have been to risky.

I think that the hellicopter missles were the way to go, save a gravity-bomb from a high flying b-2.

but israel doesnt have b-2s does it?