2012-07-02, 02:55 | Link #3341 | |||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I personally label the reapers as machines for the same reason as I label someone with cybernetics a human. That's what they are. They may have cybernetics, but they are still human. A reaper may have biological components, but they are still synthetic at their core. Last edited by Keroko; 2012-07-02 at 03:09. |
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2012-07-02, 03:00 | Link #3343 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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The Reapers have a screw lose and didn't realise they are actually the very threat they are trying to prevent. That is all. That kind of mental retardation is something the Geth would never have fallen for. Humans do this all the time, mind you; plenty of human rulers want to conquer the planet because then we could have world peace. Which means we get constant war. This is the same kind of stupidity we see everywhere, not any kind of high level mental function.
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2012-07-02, 04:00 | Link #3344 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Clearly you don't, because you've once again misinterpreted them. Or you're ignoring my posts attempting to explain. Whichever.
The goal of the reapers is preservation of organic life. Note, organic life. Not civilizations. Do not see this as keeping peace. That is not their goal. They couldn't care less about what organics do with eachother, because whichever side wins, organic life will remain. Extinction is part of organic life, as long as something remains to take its place. Synthetics winning a war for dominance, however, would result in the eradication of all organic life. Machines are thorough like that. Reapers, on the other hand, don't destroy organic life as a whole. They eliminate any synthetics threatening organics, and then cull the organics to a point where they are no longer capable of creating more synthetics for a while. Like a gardener trimming his garden. Organic life remains. |
2012-07-02, 05:27 | Link #3345 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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That's my view of it. The other possibility is that it's a biological machine. It's not implausible that a civilization could create an artificial biological brain. The reapers could be just such a construct. Anyway, Synaesthetic is right, explaining the Reapers is like explaining Cthulhu, it just makes them seem less godlike. Reapers are functionally gods (and certainly don't mind masquerading as them), Gods don't need to explain themselves. The Reapers are "beyond our comprehension", and they should have stayed that way. Showing them being made from humans was fine, it adds an extra layer of body horror to them, they shouldn't have gone further then that though... |
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2012-07-02, 07:58 | Link #3347 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Beyond Comprehension implies an fundamental inability to understand or even communicate with the other lifeforms. Cthulhu and other Elder/Outer/Inner Gods actions were incomprehensible because they either never communicated with the human protagonists or fundamentally could not without literally destroying the minds of the humans (it's kind of hard to understand a gods actions when simply thinking of them can cause you to go insane). The first time Sovereign opened its gigantic mouth is the first time it became possible to understand the creature, and the fact that it, and Harbinger, kept trying to get Shepard to understand why it was doing what it was doing (even if its explanation sounded stupid) fundamentally makes it different from creatures/entities like Cthulhu. Bioware always wanted the Reapers to be understandable. They simply failed at making their explanation truly interesting. |
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2012-07-02, 10:29 | Link #3348 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
As I say, I have no problem understanding their every word. They are just pointless words that get nowhere, as it came from the mind of a broken machine that doesn't have proper logic circuits. And if you say Reapers are not machines because they are organic... I say that's the reverse of the Geth. The Geth are sentient even when they are not organic. Reapers act like retarded robots even though they are not synthetic. And stop telling me that I don't understand them. If they act like an automatic lawn mower, then they are just lawn mowers. They couldn't see past the purpose of what they are doing. Something the Geth has evolved past. The Reapers have advanced technology, but with primitive AI that is several centuries behind the Geth.
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2012-07-02, 13:47 | Link #3349 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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In particular: "You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding." "I am beyond your comprehension." "My kind transcends your very understanding." |
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2012-07-02, 14:37 | Link #3351 |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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clearly a lot has been changed during production
Sovereign and even Harbinger had way too much ego to be simply an indifferent tool that is serving a purpose tools are not supposed to have active resentment and that much ego, but Starchild tries to convince us that they are merely doing their job.
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2012-07-02, 14:42 | Link #3352 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Cthulhu and other similar level creatures would literally destroy the minds of any who even attempt to talk or think about such creatures beyond the simplest of abstracts. And, absolutely nothing any mortal can do (or ever has done) can defeat such characters (you can defeat an Avatar of such characters, or delay the inevitable, but the actual beast itself is always beyond anything humanly possible). The Reapers have been defeated in the past, present and the future (if you choose the refuse ending), they are not the gods they claim to be. Last edited by james0246; 2012-07-02 at 15:24. |
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2012-07-02, 14:47 | Link #3353 |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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The indoctrination angle was much more spooky in ME1
when Sovereign landed on Eden Prime everyone experienced migraines it just seems that somewhere during production they decided to move from mecha lovecraft to matrix machines / decepticons
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2012-07-02, 14:58 | Link #3354 | |||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Back to the debate, the reapers saw several cycles, and each time the results in the contact between synthetics and organics were the same. Thus they concluded that the cycle was the only answer for the continued existence of organics. This situation remained necessary cycle after cycle (you will note that even the protheans had their own synthetic war). But to say that the reapers never evolved past that... is once again wrong. When new variables presented themselves, the reapers re-evaluated their purpose. That's why the star child offers you the choices, even though two of the three go against what they had done for milenia. And if I may play the devil's advocate here for a bit... who's to say the peace between the organics and the geth would last? Quote:
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2012-07-02, 15:09 | Link #3355 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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edit: Something that is forgotten in the current mess, the Protheans were at war with a synthetic race during their extinction cycle. So, it's not like there was no credence to the starchild's words... --- That being said, as a general question, are the Keepers synthetic? |
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2012-07-02, 16:15 | Link #3356 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Then again, the "ending" implies the Reapers don't have any "will" either, but then, I'm ignoring the ending |
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2012-07-02, 16:47 | Link #3357 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Quote:
Bio-engineered, so biological. Very likely a former race that got conquered and rebuild to serve a purpose like the collectors. |
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2012-07-02, 18:42 | Link #3358 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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That's the thing with the Control ending; it implies that the individual Reaper units don't have any independence whatsoever. There is no consensus governance; even the Reapers themselves are "under direct control" of the Star Child.
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2012-07-02, 21:56 | Link #3359 | |
Mizore-chan
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Moe Land
Age: 43
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...3wE&feature=iv
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2012-07-03, 02:31 | Link #3360 |
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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Hey Sovereign, why are the Reapers doing this?
Puny mortals, our motives are beyond your understanding. Hey Harbinger, why are the Reapers doing this? Puny mortals, our motives are beyond your understanding. Hey Reaper Destroyer on Rannoch, why are the Reapers doing this? Puny mortals, our motives are beyond your understanding. Hey you last-minute-blue-kid-thingy, why are the Reapers doing this? Dood, that's so easy, even primitive monkeys like you will get it - synthetics will always kill organics, so we will kill you before your creation does that. Got it?
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effect, games, mass |
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