Claymore Chapter 118

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by carbontaxes

Raki-hate was probably never that real, other than people just sick of his grotesquely cheesy lines chapter after chapter after chapter. Fact is, Raki was a key ingredient for Clare's half-awakening, her success in Rabona, and in the Ophelia interaction. But seeing just how powerful Raki is now can be legitimately annoying for people who only want to see an actual Claymore possess the power that Raki can exhibit right now.

I will say that some of the things that Raki has said are really cheesy. But that is probably just his personality now, he is probably trying to act cool to impress all the trainees.

lol
Someone? Only me, Arlenis and Double_friedman were disappointed by this chapter as it seems. Cyclone wasn't too content either but that's about it. The rest of people who thought it sucked hard just didn't post.

I wasn't trying to offend you goorel, but from what i have seen more people are complaining about the chapter than talking about it. I was not refering just to you but to all the people who have been hating this chapter.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Gooral

No I'm not. And you ignoring my other arguments only shows that you have nothing to back yours up. I could understand Dae having #1s for some perverted reasons but he had equipment to resurrect them from the start so he must have done it earlier. If you need Yagi to take your hand and explain every single detail for you then we can as well end this discussion here and now.

To address the bolded point, you do the exact same thing to myself and other posters constantly, so I think its fair game.

Also, your being hypocritical with your need for explanation by saying Yagi doesn't need to explain everything to justify himself. It is a double standard Gooral, you demand explanation, then tell others they need hand holding when they want the same. When I call you on making stuff up, or drawing your own conclusions from little to no evidence, you back up and pull this.

All the above said, if you want end this discussion, that is fine by me. Most arguments with you end up being more of a chore nowadays then any real fun, due to the above points. I know Ryus has called you in on it before, so I wont bother repeating it.

As for Miria, you couldn't even come up with this argument yourself... I was expecting that once I would use it you would bounce it off in my direction that's why I've mentioned that strangely Miria's attacks look the same as Hysteria's. It's too much of a coincidence. In Clare's case Rigaldo didn't even have time to react (plus he was occupied with Miria) but in Hysteria's case she probably dodged a fatal move with her precision and all.

Right, because we all know looking like a specific attack is the same as being identical to it. Just like the Quick Sword and Wind Cutter (which in certain panels are downright indistinguishable).

This also ignores Miria's own words in this very chapter, which you do at your own convenience once again.

It is quite possible that Hysteria dodged due to her own ability, but considering her shocked reaction after Miria cut her, I'm quite certain she wasn't "dodging" anything, she just didn't have time to properly react to the move itself.

Also, Miria's lack of accuracy could well be highlighted next chapter, just as Clare's control problems were shown back in Pieta. The current chapter had a single exchange with both characters charging straight at each other at extreme speeds, I'd be more shocked if you could miss in this situation. If Hysteria switches to a more defensive approach, the parallel's between the techniques could well come to light, and a situation similar to Rigaldo vs Clare would occur.

[Elandyll]

I do not see why so many people says Raki was a bad - @ss in this chapter, as he only got to fight a few human guards.

As per the question - how could Clare intervene now without at the same time releasing Priscilla- it's simple. If she could reform her Id and persona, and somehow persuade Rafaela/ Luciella to keep imprisoning Pris, then she might get out of the "blob" while letting Pris imprisoned within it.

Now as far as the distance goes, Clare is probably now the fastest Ghost there is for long distances (stamina is another problem, but Clare has definitely gotten a boost between the fusion with the Destroyer and getting all of Rafaela's memories anyway). So seeing her sometime soon is imo not outlandish. I would expect that to happen not next chapter, but the one following (in fact, seeing something to turn things around at the end of next chapter would be fairly logical. Miria barely managed to wound Hysteria by giving it all and starting her awakening).

[Ulquihorror]

I think the difference is that some people are displaying their hate for the chapter in a civilized manner and others are just spamming their hate like barbarians and to be honest, sometimes I wonder if it is an act of trollism or genuine hyperbolised hatred.

--

also, sometimes it is ridiculous to call it a debate since alot of sophism is used...but meh, I guess.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

To address the bolded point, you do the exact same thing to myself and other posters constantly, so I think its fair game.

lol
Point out to me which arguments I did not address. I will address them now. I'm not doing the same thing. Contrary to you I'm coming up with my own arguments not just bouncing off argument's of my adversary.

[carbontaxes]

People also quite correctly refer to Raki's annihilating a Yoma back in his hometown many many Chapters back (~Ch73-ish?) where he just totally wastes a yoma (AND actually senses the yoma that is in his disguised human form !!) and then Renee comes along and is like WTF!?! So basically at the very least, we have a bona fide human who fights and senses like a Claymore.


to Elandyll

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

I do not see why so many people says Raki was a bad - @ss in this chapter, as he only got to fight a few human guards.

Keep in mind that Raki is still (as far as we know) as "normal" human as well.

As per the question - how could Clare intervene now without at the same time releasing Priscilla- it's simple. If she could reform her Id and persona, and somehow persuade Rafaela/ Luciella to keep imprisoning Pris, then she might get out of the "blob" while letting Pris imprisoned within it.

The Destroyer has no personality of its own anymore, Raphaela made this clear in no uncertain terms. The only reason the Destroyer very specifically turned against Priscilla is because Clare took over.

Now as far as the distance goes, Clare is probably now the fastest Ghost there is for long distances (stamina is another problem, but Clare has definitely gotten a boost between the fusion with the Destroyer and getting all of Rafaela's memories anyway). So seeing her sometime soon is imo not outlandish. I would expect that to happen not next chapter, but the one following (in fact, seeing something to turn things around at the end of next chapter would be fairly logical. Miria barely managed to wound Hysteria by giving it all and starting her awakening).

Even assuming Clare received a huge boost to her speed/stamina, it took the Ghosts several weeks to get to where they are at, and Clare would need to cross that same distance within hours/minutes, unless they did some serious flashback backtracking.

-----

@ Gooral, I ask you to do the same.

You didn't address (outside of hand waving) how you came to the conclusion that Dae can resurrect warriors with anything but Priscilla's parts, nor did you address the lack of evidence that Dae has successfully done this in the past.
You also ignored my point that Dae asked the question about Priscilla's power for entirely separate reasons than his personal project.
Then we have Hysteria dodging the attack vs Miria's lack of precision, this also links into why you chose to completely disregard Miria's own statement about losing precision in favor of speed.

All this is just within the last few posts, too tired to backtrack further.
----------

Speaking of precision, Miria doesn't necessarily mean the precision in attacking, she could well mean precision in controlling her movement. She could dodge quite well with her Phantom (both new and old) but so far we have only seen her charge forward in a straight line with this "new" move, something Hysteria even commented on before Miria finally went over her limit, "You've just been plunging in blindly."

[Claymore!]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Now as far as the distance goes, Clare is probably now the fastest Ghost there is for long distances (stamina is another problem, but Clare has definitely gotten a boost between the fusion with the Destroyer and getting all of Rafaela's memories anyway). So seeing her sometime soon is imo not outlandish. I would expect that to happen not next chapter, but the one following (in fact, seeing something to turn things around at the end of next chapter would be fairly logical. Miria barely managed to wound Hysteria by giving it all and starting her awakening).

Considering how long it has taken Deneve and the rest to arrive (they still haven't gotten there yet), it is impossible for Clare to join the fight. unless she somehow escaped from the blob alone and headed to the Organization just after Deneve's group left, But that is kinda stupid.

[Teresa4ever]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Keep in mind that Raki is still (as far as we know) as "normal" human as well.

I believe that Raki is still Human. I think it would ruin his character if he was a hybrid.

Even assuming Clare received a huge boost to her speed/stamina, it took the Ghosts several weeks to get to where they are at, and Clare would need to cross that same distance within hours/minutes, unless they did some serious flashback backtracking.

Yes. Clare will not arrive at the fight. So Miria will have to save herself this time .

[Nixl]

@Gooral, I am happy about the line to be honest, but what I will say on the matter is that is Miria is saying "it was a mistake" 7 years later in hindsight. 7 years ago she had her reasons for not awakening during the Slasher's arc and the fight against Rigardo. That is not a mistake in itself, because she did not want to risk her humanity that easily. The present Miria has thrown all those considerations aside and is willing to awaken in order to win.

I will definitely welcome this development in Miria if it is an indication that Yagi is returning to his older concept of half awakenings as a crutch rather than power-ups through training arcs. Yagi introduced half-awakening around chapter 30 and with the exception of Claire he has done nothing with it. Nearly 90 chapters later and we finally have a character other than Claire using a half awakening. I have been wanting to see Miria, Helen, and Deneve explore half-awakening as Claire did for a while, but I will have to wait and see. For that reason I cannot condemn chapter 118 if it means we will finally see more of this type of fighting. Besides, Roxanne is rockin'.


If you respond I hope you do not mind if my reply is late. I am going to take a break from the debate for a bit. I am little worried some tempers are flaring and at these moments it is just best to take a tea break.

[Fenrir_valindri]

@Nixl, do you mean half awakening as in going over their limit? If so, Deneve has done so quite a few times in the past, albeit to heal herself rather then fight.

[rafael1932]

Originally Posted by carbontaxes

Raki-hate was probably never that real, other than people just sick of his grotesquely cheesy lines chapter after chapter after chapter. Fact is, Raki was a key ingredient for Clare's half-awakening, her success in Rabona, and in the Ophelia interaction. But seeing just how powerful Raki is now can be legitimately annoying for people who only want to see an actual Claymore possess the power that Raki can exhibit right now.

One thing about him is, if he's still human then once he's actually injured then he is pretty much a goner from combat. Any human can't suffer a chopped arm or whatever and stay around. But now IF it turns out that he's now a hybrid, that's gonna piss a lot of people off and frankly I can't blame them very much. That's just too much plot-gifts for Raki's character.

About Miria I think she IS pretty much awakening right as the chapter closes (and she's actually almost dead at the same time so either one of the 2 things will have to happen), only question is what type of awakening- a Clare v. Rigauld awakening, or a real awakening that the Claymores are going to have to deal with.

I stopped to say this because the only reason from the other side is haters gona hate. they don’t even try to explain why it does make sense to raki being that powerful.

--//--
Nixl
I see what you want to say. I think that you agree with me a little, however I don’t mind big characters like miria to fall down so the story can go on and have sense.

[gernot]

I made quite a mistake translating the title of this chapter.
Originally I had "The Staff's Life or Death Struggle", but the rule "If it doesn't make sense, it's probably wrong" is a good one. Apparently, "S(u)taf(u)" is the name of the area where the org's headquarters are, so the title should be "The Life and Death Struggle at Staff/Sutafu".
Not quite sure how this name had been translated in the past (not that consistency matters all that much anyway).

Oh and by the way, if you notice any mistakes in my translations, even if they're not this awful, do point them out...

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

You didn't address (outside of hand waving) how you came to the conclusion that Dae can resurrect warriors with anything but Priscilla's parts, nor did you address the lack of evidence that Dae has successfully done this in the past.
You also ignored my point that Dae asked the question about Priscilla's power for entirely separate reasons than his personal project.
Then we have Hysteria dodging the attack vs Miria's lack of precision, this also links into why you chose to completely disregard Miria's own statement about losing precision in favor of speed.

OK, let me explain it to you step by step. But it's the last time (for a while at least) I'll feed you since what you're asking here is "There's nothing to indicate it in the manga. Show me some convincing arguments" when what you're stating has absolutely NO BACKUP and you have no arguments but have the audacity to ask me for them when I've already provided them. I'll be more specific this time though and give you quotes from Yagi himself.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

When I call you on making stuff up, or drawing your own conclusions from little to no evidence, you back up and pull this.

What? How am I making stuff up? I've explained it in as simple terms as possible and you've just ignored it. All you need to do is to disprove the "made up arguments". That shouldn't be hard now, should it? Since it's only made up and has no backing up, right? Apparently not since YOU ARE THE ONE who is backing away from discussing the substance of the subject. The conclusion that only Priscilla's arm could be used for resurrection has no backing up from Yagi. There is no information like that in a manga !!! On the other hand there are plenty of clues that show Priscilla's arm wasn't the only thing that could resurrect dead Claymores. But let me be more specific (contrary to you).

1) Dae said: "During my excursion THIS TIME, I got my hands on some good material" and "THIS TIME I'm planning to use this, so given this size, probably about three, I think..." This alone should show how stupid your assertion is. It explicitly shows he has done it before. And to be exactly right in saying how many Claymores he can revive he must have had a lot of experience with it. Just by judging the size he could exactly tell how many he can do.

2) It's obvious he must have had equipment already built and ready to be used and working, otherwise he wouldn't be able to revive the three almost immediately after Rimuto's blessing. I don't see how he could built the apparatus in a matter of weeks (at most) and it would work on his first try. That's impossible unless you take out "it's manga" card.

3) Dae has also said: "Most of the tedious work is already done. What remains is to fill each of them with youki, to watch for rejection by any body parts, and to treat that one by one..." How could he know exactly what to do and what's left to do if he would never do it before?

4) And later: "Even if you say so, how much time we spend from here on affects (lit.: relates to) the stability of their human form after coming to life"
Again, how could he know it unless he had done something like that before? This shows especially well he's done it before since he would know about stability only after they've been revived, not during the process (and of course not before it).

As for Miria, you have no argument besides "Miria said so". The thing is we see in the pictures sth entirely different:


The picture shows us that Miria gives the same wound for her wound thus judging by what we know in this chapter it's as accurate as Hysteria's move. If it was not she wouldn't do such damage on her first try but would need some more tries. And contrary to Clare (who only managed to cut a hand) her opponent was paying attention and had so much control and was so agile that she could instantly change her position even at such great speeds. Even if Miria will start missing in next exchange of blows (which I doubt) it would still be damn convenient that she managed to do that on her first try when she had a speed she never had before. But I've mentioned it all in my previous posts... You also didn't address this point:

Why wasn't Hysteria hit earlier then? With their combined speeds (her and Miria's phantom move) she shouldn't have been able to dodge it either earlier if Miria rushed at her since their speeds were comparable. I'll answer that for you - because she had so much precision and Miria hadn't. So she could dodge Miria's swings or because Miria wasn't even trying to attack her and exchange a strike for a strike by swinging her sword in all directions. Which makes this move too convenient and strange no matter how you look at it.

In other words, previously, when she supposedly had more precision she couldn't touch Hysteria. But after gaining speed and speed only she could hit Hysteria on her first try and inflict the same kind of wound she got, WTF If Miria was too fast, before she could swing she should be already past Hysteria (and thus not hit her). But it's not like only her legs got stronger and she was running faster. She also was swinging her sword faster. (you will bounce my argument off as always, I'm just analyzing this better than you and am being thorough, you will see the point I'm trying to make when you'll read on). However with their combined speeds and Miria being more precise she should have injured Hysteria earlier, using her more precise phantom. But as it turns out increase of running speed and speed of Miria's swings was enough to top precision and lesser speed. And this was on her first try. Too convenient. If Miria would be swinging her sword randomly, in all directions I don't see how she would inflict the same kind of wound as Hysteria. And if it wasn't random then she had more precision than before. Win-win for me.

Anyway, discussing on Miria subject is rather pointless since as Arlenis pointed out Hysteria didn't even release youki. It will suffice she does it and Miria will be in deep sh*t again.

Originally Posted by gernot

I made quite a mistake translating the title of this chapter.
Originally I had "The Staff's Life or Death Struggle", but the rule "If it doesn't make sense, it's probably wrong" is a good one. Apparently, "S(u)taf(u)" is the name of the area where the org's headquarters are, so the title should be "The Life and Death Struggle at Staff/Sutafu".
Not quite sure how this name had been translated in the past (not that consistency matters all that much anyway).

Oh and by the way, if you notice any mistakes in my translations, even if they're not this awful, do point them out...

Thanks for clearing this up and posting it here .

[Elandyll]

Even assuming Clare received a huge boost to her speed/stamina, it took the Ghosts several weeks to get to where they are at, and Clare would need to cross that same distance within hours/minutes, unless they did some serious flashback backtracking.

Well, two things

First, how do we know how long it took? Frankly, since this new arc with Miria leaving to go fight the org, I have never felt so disconnected with Time than here. Impossible to tell if things last for hours, days, or weeks. So even if it is logical that Rabonna (the blob seems fairly close to it) is quite far away, there is no way to tell for sure if it is a matter of hours, days or weeks really.

Second, about the "serious Backtracking/ Flashbacking" .. Do you really think this is beyond Yagi ? Heck, for all we know, after 12 chapters without Clare, the next 12 chapters could be -just- about Clare, Destroyer, Pris, Galatea, Clarice and Miata (if only )

[Ryus]

Have very limited free time today, sorry but this is all I have time to reply too

@Fenrir_valindri those where some great posts, thanks for keeping things real (too bad the cookie system is being mean again)

Originally Posted by Gooral

Oh? So you think Miria was also as dumb as Duff? Don't know why you assume it was "simple" manipulation and not mind scrambling like in Miria's case.

Do you think before you speak? Or are you just trying to share your hatred of the chapter by making any post actually talking about what was stated to happen in the chapter seem false?

Roxanne clearly stated the sword was veered not that Cassandra's vision was blurred. This is the mark of Yoki Manipulation, not Yoki Anti-Warrior Training as you claim it maybe.

I don't care how blurry your vision gets, if you hack away enough you will hit something eventually with only blurry vision. Especially when your target isn't moving, your right next to it, pointed at it, and swinging a giant sword at super high speed.

This can only be the mark of Yoki Manipulation due to all the repeat failures and more importantly Roxanne's comment.

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

That's one of the major point that I felt the chapters under-delivers (again). I almost hope that there is some conspiracy and some surprise ahead of us. The development of Cassandra's character has been quite peculiar. First she was hyped so much to build up anticipation, then undermined systematically in subsequent chapters. She was suppose to be one of the strongest zombie that the MIB has, then she has trouble to handle some not-so-impressive single digits, and is "mere at a level of No. 5 without special technique", and then she is yoki-manipulated by a dying No.10.

I don't really disagree, Cassandra while her technique is deadly as hell we've yet to signs of her being as hyped as she was yet. Though i would like to restate what Fenrir_valindri pointed out about Raftela's power level being an unknown since number tens aren't ranked by power level. So nothing can truly be judged power wise here yet... only her lack of knowledge of how to counter the technique concerns me a bit... mainly, since I want to see just how strong she actually is.

I would also like to point out Roxanne always calling Cassandra a fool... maybe she really is.

[carbontaxes]

that would be, like an entire "flashback arc" and really i couldnt say that i'd be opposed to it.

[Throne Invader]

The battle between Miria and Hysteria gave me goosebumps especially at the end part where I can see that Miria seemed to have passed her limit. To answer Hysteria's question, yes I think our dear Miria has lost her mind xD Hysteria is really pretty but too bad it just so happens that she has those mini braids and I don't really em. By what we can see, without any youki being released Hysteria definitely seems stronger than Miria. Let's hope this new skill that Miria just showcased could close that gap.

I was touched by Raftela's words knowing that even though she initially seemed like a mindless robot like the Dark sisters she had so many thoughts going on inside her. It was really beautiful but I guess that's another "Yagi resurrects someone" moment that kind of ruined the flow of the story but I guess what was worth it was that Raftela was given a broader purpose in the story. I didn't know she had an extra ability similar to that of Galatea's. Surprising to say the least. I certainly thought the slice was averted by Galatea since Cassandra showed no signs of being delusional.

Poor Audrey and Rachel too But they were saved so....hooray. They're so close.

Revelation that Roxanne didn't copy Cassandra's ability because of the "disgraceful" ability but I wonder why she killed her anyways.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Roxanne clearly stated the sword was veered not that Cassandra's vision was blurred. This is the mark of Yoki Manipulation, not Yoki Anti-Warrior Training as you claim it maybe.

You're right, my mistake. I forgot about Roxanne's comment. Although, since Roxanne isn't sure it could still be senses mess up. It wouldn't matter that Audrey was staying still if Cassandra would think otherwise.She was aiming for the head specifically after all.

[Claymore!]

I have a question, how far away can you manipulate someone's yoki. Raftela seems to be far away but she can still manipulate Cassandra's yoki.
I also think that it is cool that Roxanne is so cunning. She was very smart to figure it out so fast. Now i believe Roxanne will try to kill Raftela