Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Oh what the hell, you can glomp me, w/e. 8DD

Omg! *-*
*glomps*

Well, i will just say, that Lelouch chose this, he wanted to become carnage incarnate to bring a new era. But he did commit atrocities, and for this, he "deserved" to get punished. Then again, if i start counting how many people in Geass fall to this category and got no shit, i will take back what i just said now. 8D
It can be a double-edged-sword, indeed.

Yep, world peace in Code Geass would be pretty silent if everyone who commited notable crimes got punished for it. And probably also pretty short, because there aren't many political figures who'd still be able to stay in office.
Also, I still don't believe in this "deserving" thing - punishment should either keep someone safe or help making someone see the error of their ways, and with Lelouch, neither is really necessary.

[synaesthetic]

bladeofdarkness seems to think it's not okay to like someone because they're a cold-blooded murderous bastard of the highest order.

Why?

I watch Monster, I love Johann, he's the epitome of the implacable villain. I love Darth Vader. I love Kefka (so delightfully insane), plenty of fangirls like Sephiroth. I like Prince Ali, hell there's a lot of villains I like.

The entire cast of Black Lagoon are evil as hell, but I love them all just the same, especially the most ruthless of the main females, Balalaika.

It's not a bad thing to enjoy an evil character in fiction. I am not trying to say that Lelouch was a good guy. He wasn't. Toward the end of R2, he was even less of a good guy. Do I agree with his method of attaining peace? No, I don't. I think in the real world it'd fail pretty epically--after Lelouch dies, eventually those united would start fighting again as soon as it was safe to do so. That's a bit of a wallbanger for me.

However, Lelouch is not as evil as Schneizel. Schneizel wanted to rule the world through fear and subjugation as a nuke-launching airborne God. Lelouch is not as evil as Charles. Charles wanted to forcibly remove the individuality of the entire human race, which would not lead to the peace he and Marianne imagined. It would lead to billions of people suddenly going murderously insane. It would wipe us out in an eyeblink.

Lelouch is evil, but he's less evil than the other big evils. That doesn't make him good, it just makes him not as bad. We're not saying Lelouch is good. That'd be like saying Revy is good because she kills a lot of bad people, which is so hilariously wrong it's not even funny.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

bladeofdarkness seems to think it's not okay to like someone because they're a cold-blooded murderous bastard of the highest order.

Why?

I watch Monster, I love Johann, he's the epitome of the implacable villain. I love Darth Vader. I love Kefka (so delightfully insane), plenty of fangirls like Sephiroth. I like Prince Ali, hell there's a lot of villains I like.

The entire cast of Black Lagoon are evil as hell, but I love them all just the same, especially the most ruthless of the main females, Balalaika.

It's not a bad thing to enjoy an evil character in fiction. I am not trying to say that Lelouch was a good guy. He wasn't. Toward the end of R2, he was even less of a good guy. Do I agree with his method of attaining peace? No, I don't. I think in the real world it'd fail pretty epically--after Lelouch dies, eventually those united would start fighting again as soon as it was safe to do so. That's a bit of a wallbanger for me.

However, Lelouch is not as evil as Schneizel. Schneizel wanted to rule the world through fear and subjugation as a nuke-launching airborne God. Lelouch is not as evil as Charles. Charles wanted to forcibly remove the individuality of the entire human race, which would not lead to the peace he and Marianne imagined. It would lead to billions of people suddenly going murderously insane. It would wipe us out in an eyeblink.

Lelouch is evil, but he's less evil than the other big evils. That doesn't make him good, it just makes him not as bad. We're not saying Lelouch is good. That'd be like saying Revy is good because she kills a lot of bad people, which is so hilariously wrong it's not even funny.

It is fiction, certain charas will appeal to someone, because of reason a + reason b. And lately, it seems that the "bad" guys, are more charming. They can be evil, but they have weaknesses, that make them way more interesting than the usual-hero-type.

p.s the real Monster of the series, was actually Johan's mother, but yes, Johan was pretty much devil himself in a way, but not 100%. //Kefka, yeah, was a clear prick though, haha.

[synaesthetic]

It's nice to see media play around with different protagonist archetypes. The classical hero and the tragic hero are obviously used constantly, along with the more recent inclusion of the anti-hero and the reluctant hero.

I'm not a fan of the tired and cliche 90s era anti-hero, but I love a good villain protagonist. It's really not hard to write convincingly if they live in a world where there's only varying shades of gray.

Lelouch is interesting because he's a villain protagonist in a world where there isn't just gray, but black and white as well. He clearly goes against good people and that brings a level of depth to the story that other stories don't have. You root for him, you are meant to like him, but at the same time you have to weigh those feelings with the various very bad things he may do. And Lelouch does a lot of very, very bad things.

... but he manages to do them with such style and flair (not to mention a nice big serving of HAM)...

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

bladeofdarkness seems to think it's not okay to like someone because they're a cold-blooded murderous bastard of the highest order.

Why?

I watch Monster, I love Johann, he's the epitome of the implacable villain. I love Darth Vader. I love Kefka (so delightfully insane), plenty of fangirls like Sephiroth. I like Prince Ali, hell there's a lot of villains I like.

The entire cast of Black Lagoon are evil as hell, but I love them all just the same, especially the most ruthless of the main females, Balalaika.

It's not a bad thing to enjoy an evil character in fiction. I am not trying to say that Lelouch was a good guy. He wasn't. Toward the end of R2, he was even less of a good guy. Do I agree with his method of attaining peace? No, I don't. I think in the real world it'd fail pretty epically--after Lelouch dies, eventually those united would start fighting again as soon as it was safe to do so. That's a bit of a wallbanger for me.

However, Lelouch is not as evil as Schneizel. Schneizel wanted to rule the world through fear and subjugation as a nuke-launching airborne God. Lelouch is not as evil as Charles. Charles wanted to forcibly remove the individuality of the entire human race, which would not lead to the peace he and Marianne imagined. It would lead to billions of people suddenly going murderously insane. It would wipe us out in an eyeblink.

Lelouch is evil, but he's less evil than the other big evils. That doesn't make him good, it just makes him not as bad. We're not saying Lelouch is good. That'd be like saying Revy is good because she kills a lot of bad people, which is so hilariously wrong it's not even funny.

Here's the thing if you read interviews Okouchi basically states that Lelouch was the good guy. Basically where supposed to agree with Lelouch's actions, and see all those people who Lelouch killed as necessary sacrifices.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Here's the thing if you read interviews Okouchi basically states that Lelouch was the good guy. Basically where supposed to agree with Lelouch's actions, and see all those people who Lelouch killed as necessary sacrifices.

Ahh, no, they just implied that Lelouch had not had a "bad-villain" heart. Which was obvious anyway.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Here's the thing if you read interviews Okouchi basically states that Lelouch was the good guy. Basically where supposed to agree with Lelouch's actions, and see all those people who Lelouch killed as necessary sacrifices.

I thought it was more "he comes off as the good guy because the story is told from his POV."

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

bladeofdarkness seems to think it's not okay to like someone because they're a cold-blooded murderous bastard of the highest order.

Why?.

did you see gundam SEED ?
a simple yes or no please

[synaesthetic]

I haven't watched it, no. It's on my list of things to watch, just haven't gotten to it yet. I kind of gave up Gundam for a while after the horrible abomination that is Gundam Wing and didn't get back into it until I recently saw Gundam 00.

[bladeofdarkness]

A)watch it
B)you just screwed up my anaology a bit
let me rephrase

have you watched bleach ?

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

did you see gundam SEED ?
a simple yes or no please

Ah, that again. This is getting old blade, honest.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Ah, that again. This is getting old blade, honest.

its not old unless it sinks in

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I thought it was more "he comes off as the good guy because the story is told from his POV."

So your saying if we got the camera off of Lelouch and started showing all of the massacres the Britannians are doing in depth than Lelouch wouldn't look so good?

That's like saying the reason Nazi Germany was considered bad is because the Americans just wrote World War II from their point of view.

[synaesthetic]

Bleach really isn't my cup of tea. No, I haven't watched it either. I don't watch much shonen martial arts type anime. I prefer stories with a more political, social or psychological bent. Mnemosyne and Black Lagoon are my two exceptions, but they're more seinen bait than anything.

[bladeofdarkness]

have you watched braveheart then ?

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

its not old unless it sinks in

Ah, it is already sank. I can use a million of other anime to show that "ZOMG THEY STOLE IDEAS" Again, everything has been done in a way, nothing to look into there.

Charred, stop comparing extremist examples to fiction, for the love of Dear God.

[bladeofdarkness]

nothing to do with that actually
this is strictly about lelouch

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

nothing to do with that actually
this is strictly about lelouch

Really? Explain it then, so we can all enlighten ourselves.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Really? Explain it then, so we can all enlighten ourselves.

i will
once synaesthetic answers me

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i will
once synaesthetic answers me

Well, i ask you then, reply to me.