Love Live! The School Idol Movie

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's true that the Love Live franchise has been carefully and meticulously managed. However, I think the way you're putting this risks making it seem more cynical than it actually is.

What I see in Love Live! and all the people behind it, are skilled craftsmen that take their craftsmanship very seriously. I see a definite labor of love that's aiming to create something truly special and memorable. Now, I do think that Love Live! is very carefully calibrated to appeal to a wide range of potential fans, so there is a definite marketing slickness here. Still, I think that's all part and parcel of aiming to create something truly special and memorable. After all, one way to be special and memorable is to "go big!"

I don't think that the marketing slickness here is purely about commercial rewards. I really don't.

And the reason I don't is that Love Live! is hardly being milked. It's quite the opposite in fact - μ's is leaving near or at their very peak! That's something I can barely get over, really. If Sunrise/Lantis just wanted to maximize profits here, they could continue to give us more and more and more μ's. There's a variety of ways they could have done it, but instead they're moving on to Love Live! Sunshine. In the long-term, moving on to a new group of girls might be a wise choice even commercially, but it's a real risk to be sure. The safe play would have been to milk μ's for all they're worth.

Sunrise/Lantis, and μ's themselves it seems, never made that choice. They chose instead to have μ's go out in explosive style while still near or at their peak. That speaks to artists and entertainers that care about more than money alone, in my view.

By the way, I feel much the same way about the K-On franchise. While I do miss it some, I'm glad the anime ended with the movie and the end of Season 2. K-On ended on a very good note, and in a world where things often get milked well beyond their best before date, it can be refreshing to see this.

Yeah... As I was writing that I was thinking to myself that I was being a overly cynical. I think I've been immerse in the western media and its cynicism for far too long.

I still think that Love Live was wonderfully managed. They got big gains by banking on maintaining a theme throughout all the decisions they did like ending when the group is on its absolute peak. It's not so much calculated to bring maximum profits but to give maximum impact. That's why this entire franchise is so fantastic to observe. They could have milked it to oblivion but they haven't and because of that I feel like they have a shot at keeping most of the fanbase with the new show (that is if they can maintain the level of quality).

Also it's funny to see that LL has the exact same number of episodes as K-On. Half Cour + Full Cour + Movie. It's like that's the sweet spot for an anime of this kind or something.

[Nork22]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

I'm just flippin out in sheer envy

Seeing Nozomi twirling around in sunglasses always amuses me.
? ← HEARTBEAT is just so damn silly.

Originally Posted by Dextro

Also it's funny to see that LL has the exact same number of episodes as K-On. Half Cour + Full Cour + Movie. It's like that's the sweet spot for an anime of this kind or something.

What? LL had 2 cours and a movie while K-On had 3 cours and a movie.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Nork22

What? LL had 2 cours and a movie while K-On had 3 cours and a movie.

You're right. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought Season 2 was 26 episodes instead of 13. Damn, now I want more LL

[Ernietheracefan]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

I'm just flippin out in sheer envy

LOL....!!!
No wonder why I love that song..

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dextro

I still think that Love Live was wonderfully managed. They got big gains by banking on maintaining a theme throughout all the decisions they did like ending when the group is on its absolute peak. It's not so much calculated to bring maximum profits but to give maximum impact. That's why this entire franchise is so fantastic to observe. They could have milked it to oblivion but they haven't and because of that I feel like they have a shot at keeping most of the fanbase with the new show (that is if they can maintain the level of quality).

Oh, I definitely agree with all of that. Appealing to moe fans isn't as easy as some probably think it is. A certain attention to detail, a very good sense of timing, and knowing how to be genuinely heartwarming, are all important. Love Live's storytelling quality is honestly underrated, in my view. Both visual storytelling, as well as the script itself.

[Master_Yoma]

They really didnt spend that much time in New York and didnt to that much at all

[IceHism]

Alright, finally had some time to finish this whole movie. Overall, I feel like I watched like 40 minutes of interesting content and 60 minutes of the saccharine cuteness that we have already seen. Its fine but I think it could have fleshed out the conflict a bit more. I wasn't very excited to see u's in new York or when they got a bunch of other school idols to help set up the last concert. It felt like watching a competition and knowing exactly how it would end and who would win. Attention to details on the art and the characters are on point as usual. I thought I'd be getting some different types of songs but the songs weren't anything different or interesting for me

I enjoyed that the scale widened up and it dealt with how the girls would respond to a fanbase from all over the country that supports their act. I can think of a few examples to parallel that to in real life. Likewise, Im satisfied to see that u's decided to disband in the end because I can also relate that to certain products and music groups right now. I've seen so many things become stale because the company behind it got lazy and stopped innovating, thinking they could live off their current fanbase. All in all, I think it was a satisfying watch with certain moments of the film being pretty touching but other parts kind of a bit repetitive and too saccharine.

Regarding the meta-discussion, I think that school idols are not a feasible idea at all. A real school idol group have all the odds stacked against them in exposure and funding. There's not a Maki everywhere that has enough money to overcome that. Talent agencies groom trainees from even before high school, And the pure idea of school idols shown in this show would be changed so easily. The jpop or j-idol industry isn't really corrupt or anything along those lines but its nowhere as rosy as how this show represents. There is no entertainment industry that is rosy.

[Triple_R]

Spoiler for Reply to IceHism on the movie itself:

Originally Posted by IceHism

Alright, finally had some time to finish this whole movie. Overall, I feel like I watched like 40 minutes of interesting content and 60 minutes of the saccharine cuteness that we have already seen.

That sounds pretty much perfect for a movie of this type. "Saccharine cuteness" is a core element to both moe and J-Pop idols. Criticizing the Love Live! movie for its saccharine cuteness is like criticizing a horror movie for being very scary. For many viewers, this is precisely what we're looking for.

Its fine but I think it could have fleshed out the conflict a bit more.

There was a conflict over whether μ's should continue on or not, at least until the next Love Live event. I felt the movie did a good job of having μ's discuss that among themselves, considering different perspective on it, before arriving at the choice they made. This was the only real conflict in the movie. The rest was μ's making the most of the opportunities presented to them.

I wasn't very excited to see u's in new York or when they got a bunch of other school idols to help set up the last concert. It felt like watching a competition and knowing exactly how it would end and who would win.

Why would it be like watching a competition? There was no competitive aspect to any of this. In fact, much of the point of the last concert was school idol groups coming together as one in a spirit of shared celebration, and so putting aside normal competition between themselves.

Originally Posted by IceHism

Regarding the meta-discussion, I think that school idols are not a feasible idea at all.

I'm not sure how feasible an idea they are in real life, but your arguments against them don't seem persuasive to me at all.

A real school idol group have all the odds stacked against them in exposure and funding.

Why? A school idol group could also be a school club, and school clubs could receive funding from the school itself.

Running a μ's-like operation also doesn't strike me as particularly expensive. What are the key things that μ's needed to succeed?:

1. Drive and determination, some hard work
2. Skill and talent in areas where it matters
3. Good group cohesion
4. Places to practice and put on live performances.
5. Promotional material.
6. Special costumes for live performances.
7. Song creation

Money isn't an issue for the first 3. School idols arguably have an edge in Number 4 - School idols can make use of their school as both a place to practice and a place to put on live performances, which is precisely what μ's did to a considerable extent. Promotional material can be videos uploaded to sites like YouTube, and simple flyers, both of which are pretty inexpensive, and both of which is precisely what μ's did. Song creation takes real skill and talent to do well, but is also not terribly expensive. So out of all 7 items on my list there, the only one that strikes me as a significant cost would be the special costumes. But this much alone is probably no huge deal, particularly if some school funding can be found for it. Plenty of teenage anime fans can pull off anime cosplays, so I'm sure plenty of teenage idols could also pull off special idol costumes.

All of the above being said, the biggest obstacle I see to real life school idols is financial. But it's not that it's too costly to pull off (it isn't), it's the following: Any group of girls capable of being a real-life μ's is also probably capable of being a successful professional idol group, and getting paid for it.

Why do something for free when you can make money at it?

Well, as I wrote on this thread before, there are certain benefits to the school idol approach. School idol groups would enjoy greater independence and greater control over what precisely they do. If they want to stick strictly to live performances, they can do that, whereas pro idols may well be expected to do a lot more than just live performances.

Some girls might also like the idea of promoting their school as they promote themselves. Some girls might also like the convenience of utilizing school facilities for idol activities.

Are these edges enough to make up for leaving money on the table? I don't know. That I'm uncertain about. But you only need a very small percentage of teenage girls to be willing to make that choice before real life school idols become feasible. Well, you'd need that and some schools that are at least somewhat supportive of it - Since some key edges evaporate without school support of school idols.

There's maybe also a springboard possibility for school idols. Teenage girls that hope to become professional J-Pop idols one day, but have had no luck getting accepted by official idol agencies, may decide to try to make a name for themselves through first being successful school idols.

As the length of this post probably makes clear, the real-life feasibility (or lack thereof) of school idols is of some interest to me.


In any event, I certainly find the "school idol" idea possible enough to make the LL! narrative work.

And the pure idea of school idols shown in this show would be changed so easily.

Not necessarily.

The jpop or j-idol industry isn't really corrupt or anything along those lines but its nowhere as rosy as how this show represents.

This show isn't representing the J-Pop idol industry. There's no idol agencies in this show, and there's no idol managers in this show.

This show takes the basic J-Pop idol concept and fuses it with school clubs, creating something a bit different overall.

[Ulin]

At last I could watch the movie and althought I found it enjoyable, it was not as emotional as the last two episodes of the show by far. I was hoping to see some more of the future in the end, as a sort of epilogue or something, to reinforce the idea of closure of the show.

Spoiler for movie:

At the end, Arisa and Yukiho are 3d years, aren't they? So the last muse concert is two years later when all of them had graduated or something?

And who the hell is the girl singing as time goes by? I've read here that she could be some kind of a "future Honoka" and the way she acts could point this way but... I don't know, I just don't like the idea of Honoka singing alone, it's just a little bit sad.

Overall, I've enjoyed it, but I hoped for a more round ending, especially after the second season ending.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by pagan poor

Probably said before, but it's no coincidence that the end of this movie parallels the end of the actual group with next March/April's live concerts.

Also, the popularity of µ’s alludes to their real-life counterparts in which they got appearances in both Music Station and Music Japan, plus having a slot at the 66th Kohaku Uta Gassen last year.

In any case, it was a fun movie that cap off their idol career! I'm gonna miss µ’s...

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Spoiler for Reply to IceHism on the movie itself:

That sounds pretty much perfect for a movie of this type. "Saccharine cuteness" is a core element to both moe and J-Pop idols. Criticizing the Love Live! movie for its saccharine cuteness is like criticizing a horror movie for being very scary. For many viewers, this is precisely what we're looking for.




There was a conflict over whether μ's should continue on or not, at least until the next Love Live event. I felt the movie did a good job of having μ's discuss that among themselves, considering different perspective on it, before arriving at the choice they made. This was the only real conflict in the movie. The rest was μ's making the most of the opportunities presented to them.




Why would it be like watching a competition? There was no competitive aspect to any of this. In fact, much of the point of the last concert was school idol groups coming together as one in a spirit of shared celebration, and so putting aside normal competition between themselves.

I'm not sure how feasible an idea they are in real life, but your arguments against them don't seem persuasive to me at all.




Why? A school idol group could also be a school club, and school clubs could receive funding from the school itself.

Running a μ's-like operation also doesn't strike me as particularly expensive. What are the key things that μ's needed to succeed?:

1. Drive and determination, some hard work
2. Skill and talent in areas where it matters
3. Good group cohesion
4. Places to practice and put on live performances.
5. Promotional material.
6. Special costumes for live performances.
7. Song creation

Money isn't an issue for the first 3. School idols arguably have an edge in Number 4 - School idols can make use of their school as both a place to practice and a place to put on live performances, which is precisely what μ's did to a considerable extent. Promotional material can be videos uploaded to sites like YouTube, and simple flyers, both of which are pretty inexpensive, and both of which is precisely what μ's did. Song creation takes real skill and talent to do well, but is also not terribly expensive. So out of all 7 items on my list there, the only one that strikes me as a significant cost would be the special costumes. But this much alone is probably no huge deal, particularly if some school funding can be found for it. Plenty of teenage anime fans can pull off anime cosplays, so I'm sure plenty of teenage idols could also pull off special idol costumes.

All of the above being said, the biggest obstacle I see to real life school idols is financial. But it's not that it's too costly to pull off (it isn't), it's the following: Any group of girls capable of being a real-life μ's is also probably capable of being a successful professional idol group, and getting paid for it.

Why do something for free when you can make money at it?

Well, as I wrote on this thread before, there are certain benefits to the school idol approach. School idol groups would enjoy greater independence and greater control over what precisely they do. If they want to stick strictly to live performances, they can do that, whereas pro idols may well be expected to do a lot more than just live performances.

Some girls might also like the idea of promoting their school as they promote themselves. Some girls might also like the convenience of utilizing school facilities for idol activities.

Are these edges enough to make up for leaving money on the table? I don't know. That I'm uncertain about. But you only need a very small percentage of teenage girls to be willing to make that choice before real life school idols become feasible. Well, you'd need that and some schools that are at least somewhat supportive of it - Since some key edges evaporate without school support of school idols.

There's maybe also a springboard possibility for school idols. Teenage girls that hope to become professional J-Pop idols one day, but have had no luck getting accepted by official idol agencies, may decide to try to make a name for themselves through first being successful school idols.

As the length of this post probably makes clear, the real-life feasibility (or lack thereof) of school idols is of some interest to me.


In any event, I certainly find the "school idol" idea possible enough to make the LL! narrative work.




Not necessarily.




This show isn't representing the J-Pop idol industry. There's no idol agencies in this show, and there's no idol managers in this show.

This show takes the basic J-Pop idol concept and fuses it with school clubs, creating something a bit different overall.

Uhh, not on computer so please excuse this poor formatting
I'll go respond to each thing in parts.

I never categorized LL as iyashikei. I expect it to have a more nuanced struggle. I'm not watching aria, mushishi, or non non biyori here. The first two seasons did this fine in comparison to the movie. Also, I disagree that saccharine cuteness is core of idols. I've followed them for years. Cute is good but there are so many more styles that also matter. One trick ponies don't last.

When I meant like a competition, I mean a scripted one. One where people are just going through the motions. That's not interesting to watch and that's how I felt half this movie is like.

I didn't try to write a convincing opinion because I don't want to write a long post but I'll elaborate here. It requires some mental gymnastics.
1) funding/exposure. School clubs are given a budget based on what they contribute to the school. There is no national contest that showcases school idols and its likely that investors won't make one. What µ’s did was save their school from dying by attracting people to go there. That's not gonna happen in real life. What you're saying where people get together and make a group for fun already exists and people already do that on a normal basis. Only that they dont represent themselves as the school. I don't even think the school would support it a lot. Why would the school want to be associated with idols which are commonly known as being too commercial and not artistic? If you want to focus on live performance, calling yourselves a vocal and dance group is like 100x more appealing and you aren't really being an idol if you don't do the other things.

As for exposure, I just don't get who the target audience is. If you are targeting the people who go to your school, then the trend won't get big. If you're trying to attract people from outside, then you have an extremely steep hurdle to get past even if you did do flyers and uploaded things to nico nico douga and YouTube.

2) talent agencies scouting since a young age. This is rather simple. Being an entertainer takes a lot of hard work and time. A lot of people who devote themselves to being an idol tend to want to go professional. If you're a hobby idol worth a damn, you could also be a professional one and get paid. You also get to debut at a young age(I even know one that debuted at age 11) in most cases. If you don't feel like being a pro idol after a year or two, you can graduate and just continue your normal life as it was before. Its pretty much a win-win with a good amount of benefits. You get real industry knowledge, professional training, and the opportunity to make important connections. You also get money. Why not do this? The requirements to even be an idol aren't even high to begin with. The bar is actually pretty low and you don't really need prior training though it helps.

My 3rd point was worded weirdly but the gist is i don't think a real life school idol club would work out as it did in love live. Infighting, drama, school politics, people losing motivation or not having enough time suddenly. Wanting monetary compensation, etc and i mean on a bigger scale than what happened in LL. It sucks and the 7 things you posted aren't easy to find at all except for a place to practice. You also need to account for the gigantic amount of hours they will have to put in. Time that they have to willingly dedicate to being an idol instead of towards their grades and a more long-term career.

If the main motivation was freedom from doing certain activities (like what though?), might as well just look towards something else. It'd be far more conducive to what you wanna do. You implied something about idols that want to focus on live performances without doing other stuff. Those types of group already exist in the industry as well and they wouldn't even be considered an idol. You cant want to be an idol and then just strip off the extra parts that make you an idol.

[Nork22]

Originally Posted by IceHism

My 3rd point was worded weirdly but the gist is i don't think a real life school idol club would work out as it did in love live.

I remember reading an article about a few Japanese Universities having an idol club and they actually have their own "Love Live" event every year. They do it for fun, and don't really get any monetary rewards from it as far as I remember. So in reality it can work. But hey, Love Live never took it's idol platform seriously, rather it's about 9 friends who spent time together dancing, singing and goofing around.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Nork22

I remember reading an article about a few Japanese Universities having an idol club and they actually have their own "Love Live" event every year. They do it for fun, and don't really get any monetary rewards from it as far as I remember. So in reality it can work. But hey, Love Live never took it's idol platform seriously, rather it's about 9 friends who spent time together dancing, singing and goofing around.

That assumption was made under the thought that school idols would be a big trend and not just fragmented all over the place. I believe that some friends can get together to have some fun and a small subset of other places doing the same as well and they collaborate. That's great and all but it won't be national or anything. That's my basis for why I don't think school idols would work outside of being a fun small thing.

Like yea, the similarity here and the show would be that they had fun. But unlike RL, the school idols depicted in the show actually had a real effect on a huge group of people.

[wavehawk]

[Ernietheracefan]

^ Honoka & Kotori with Skipper & the penguins..

[Kanon]

I found out only now by looking at the charts that the movie is out (and it's doing extremely well). How the heck did I miss that?

I will watch that movie and then commit sudoku.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I found out only now by looking at the charts that the movie is out (and it's doing extremely well). How the heck did I miss that?

I will watch that movie and then commit sudoku.

Watch the movie, commit sudoku, then resuscitate yourself back to life to watch Love Live! Sunshine in the summer.

[FlavoryFantasy]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I found out only now by looking at the charts that the movie is out (and it's doing extremely well). How the heck did I miss that?

I will watch that movie and then commit sudoku.

That's amusing to hear... well, cheers to you hopefully enjoying the movie!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I never categorized LL as iyashikei. I expect it to have a more nuanced struggle. I'm not watching aria, mushishi, or non non biyori here. The first two seasons did this fine in comparison to the movie. Also, I disagree that saccharine cuteness is core of idols.

Saccharine cuteness certainly seems to be a big part of all of the real-life J-Pop idols I've seen and heard about. It might not be all that said idols offer, but it's a big and core part of it. And saccharine cuteness is definitely a big part of the first two seasons of Love Live!

So I stand by what I wrote before - Complaining about saccharine cuteness in the Love Live! movie is like complaining about a horror movie being very scary. Most Love Live! fans I know, including myself, seem to like saccharine cuteness.

Also, maybe I'm confusing you with somebody else, but I recall you liking some anime shows/characters with a lot of moe in them. So I'm honestly taken aback some by your criticism of saccharine cuteness in the Love Live! movie. I thought you liked saccharine cuteness.

When I meant like a competition, I mean a scripted one. One where people are just going through the motions. That's not interesting to watch and that's how I felt half this movie is like.

None of this movie felt like the characters "going through the motions" to me. The characters came across as very sincere and emotionally expressive to me. But I guess this might be a subjective thing.

What µ’s did was save their school from dying by attracting people to go there. That's not gonna happen in real life.

I don't think it's as impossible as you're making it out to be.

I certainly think a real life group like µ’s would be rare (if they exist at all), but in a country with Japan's population and love of idol-style music, it's not unthinkable to me that a group or two like that could form under very special circumstances (like the ones we saw in the anime).

You keep bringing up idol talent agencies scouting girls from a young age, and you're probably right about that. However, the vast majority of µ’s were not idol fans, and showed no interest in being an idol, before Honoka was inspired by A-Rise to try an idol method to saving her school. Of the two µ’s members that were big idol fans from the very start, one (Hanayo) was too shy to ever attempt being an idol until she was motivated by some of the other µ’s members. So that just leaves Nico. A lone girl like Nico going unnoticed by idol talent agencies is no big deal, in my view. Nico has some talent, but she's not blow-you-away good.

µ’s is in fact precisely the sort of group of girls that I could imagine springing-up seemingly out of nowhere like this, in large part because they're precisely the sort of girls that I could see idol talent agencies failing to capture. Many of them have a particular talent or two that relates to being a good idol, but almost none of them put it altogether prior to Honoka being inspired by A-Rise.

Why would the school want to be associated with idols which are commonly known as being too commercial and not artistic?

Well, I guess that's the perspective that Eli Ayase represented in the first 7 episodes of Love Live! But like Love Live itself showed, people's minds can change.

If you're trying to attract people from outside, then you have an extremely steep hurdle to get past even if you did do flyers and uploaded things to nico nico douga and YouTube.

Sure. But every so often people arise who can clear steep hurdles like this.

My 3rd point was worded weirdly but the gist is i don't think a real life school idol club would work out as it did in love live.

Maybe not without a common cause that would help group cohesion. A common cause like... saving the school. It's notable that µ’s did in fact start to face serious infighting and drama after the school had been successfully saved. But people who genuinely like and care about each other can overcome these things.

[Kanon]

That was wonderful. This movie made me very happy, but also sad since I knew this was the last time I'd see µ's.

The trip in New York was very reminiscent of the K-on movie, and it was just as fun here. I enjoyed that the girls acted like regular tourists and not hyper anime girls going "sugoi" at everything as if they were visiting a completely different planet. The interactions with locals were well done as well. Obviously, the girls' English wasn't very good, but they could still get by. One thing that was really amusing and that's common in anime is that everybody could tell they were Japanese even though they don't look Asian in the least

I was surprised they chose Time Square for their concert. I thought they'd choose a less flashy and more intimate location, but in terms of effect, that was most likely the right choice. As proof, they became super famous thanks to that. Incidentally, the third years' song about their newfound popularity was super fun. I usually dislike when people suddenly start to sing for no reason in a movie, but it really worked here. Pairing the girls up by years was pretty nice.

The later half of the movie was pretty much dedicated to reaffirming the girls' decision from the end of the anime. The whole future ghost Honoka thing was pretty weird, and if her future is really to sing alone, it's also quite a bit sad. Honoka doesn't strike me as the type of girl who'd be happy with a solo career. She needs to be able to share the happiness.

The concert to promote School Idols was really impressive. Thanks to this movie, I finally understand µ's decision to split up better. What they loved was being School Idols (idols with complete freedom), and that's something you can only be for a limited amount of years. They wanted to cherish the short time they spent as a group. They care more about this than fame. Continuing as a regular idol unit would have eventually tainted their feelings. Passing the baton to the next generation, and in so doing creating a lasting legacy, was a great choice.

Finally, µ's final song was incredible. I loved how it incorporated the name of each of the members. It truly was a song for them.

Looking forward to Sunshine now. Aqours is going to have some damn big shoes to fill.