AnimeSuki Forums

j0x · 2011-03-15, 05:27

"A major new report from a consortium of academic researchers concludes that media piracy can't be stopped through 'three strikes' Internet disconnections, Web censorship, more police powers, higher statutory damages, or tougher criminal penalties. That's because the piracy of movies, music, video games, and software is 'better described as a global pricing problem'. And the only way to solve it is by changing the price."

source:
http://www.osnews.com/comments/24523
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...e-solution.ars

i say the report is right, each country has different economic level to buy, for example third world countries like the Philippines cannot buy the prices of DVD and BluRays from America, so the problem is darn simple its PRICING

Kyuu · 2011-03-15, 05:33

Well, that'll make the media think twice about ripping people off.

synaesthetic · 2011-03-15, 11:29

Wow, someone finally tumbled to reality.

Asuras · 2011-03-15, 11:36

Piracy won't be stopped even with better pricing.

ganbaru · 2011-03-15, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asuras

Piracy won't be stopped even with better pricing.

Stopped, probably not. Reduced is more likely.

Asuras · 2011-03-15, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckmox

And the only way to solve it is by changing the price."

By their wording, they seem to think it's completely fixable.

Vexx · 2011-03-15, 12:05

This is another 'duh' moment that the MPAA/RIAA folks don't want to hear. You'll never utterly fix piracy... but the *market* is telling you your services are too high. These folks are no different than other large egotistic corporations in that they don't actually want to *compete* but just have a fat happy money stream (which magically vanishes when the actual creative elements want to get paid).

mukansa monkey · 2011-03-15, 12:13

A similar analysis was done some years ago by an economist (not a consortium, so I guess it's not as cool). He was analyzing the music industry specifically. His position was that the people releasing music were making a fundamental mistake by viewing piracy as an irritation to be fought legally, or else ignored. He said piracy should be looked at as competition, with its own advantages and disadvantages. Basically, piracy is free, but it makes people feel a little guilty, and has a small chance of causing serious trouble for the pirate downloader.

By looking at piracy as a different source for the same product, he had some interesting thoughts about how to price piratable goods. His primary conclusion was the same, that for any market there's an optimum price point where the most money can be made. Note though that this does *not* mean piracy can be eliminated this way, nor should it really... the point is that at a certain price the total income is maximized. Drop any lower and the increased # of buyers won't offset the reduced cost per unit. However from what he could tell, $0.99 a song is way above that optimum point.

The most interesting point he made is that most piracy happens with new products. A new album or movie comes out, a lot of people download it who are only a bit interested in it. Older songs are more likely to be looked for by someone who's motivated to get it (and therefore more willing to pay than the casuals). Thus he said that new releases should be discounted well below baseline, in order to get more sales. At the time the iTunes store was doing the exact opposite, charging extra for new releases. And therefore shooting themselves in the foot by driving away customers right when there's the most interest.

I'm glad to see that these ideas have been expanded onto a larger stage. In the anime industry it's been pretty clear for a long time that the Japanese were slow to pick up on how the US market tends to work. There's a lot more casual viewers on the eastern side of the Pacific who will spend $30 on a box set of a series, but would never pay that much for two episodes. Hopefully in the future we see more consideration of how money can be made on anime outside of Japan.

Nightengale · 2011-03-17, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asuras

By their wording, they seem to think it's completely fixable.

There will always be people who doesn't want to pay for anything and take free whatever they can since it's mostly consequences-free, but I know quite a lot of people who are just as listed in the study.

Some people just can't fathom buying everything they like when something like a 30+ hours game cost like 10% of their monthly salary.

Actually, I would say unlocalised anime to be the best example of such. Sorry, it's difficult for me to justify $60 on just 2-3 episodes.

I do buy a lot of things to try to contribute to the market, but if I were to consider everything I ever pirated without giving back the full amount as debts, I'd be up there in the thousands.

And it may not seem like much, but I actually feel guilty about it. I feel, and yet I still want to be entitled to the enjoyment and luxury.

Minorou · 2011-03-17, 15:47

I think a good example would be the digital distribution software Steam. I've heard quite a few people who decided to buy from steam during a good sale instead of just outright pirating.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/573...ft-4-dead-half
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...ed-sales-too/1

Lowered prices obviously mean more sales, but the extra profitability can be staggering. Steam has shown in practice that people respond overwhelmingly well to this kind of pricing strategy.

And an extra thing to note: a lot of small independent companies have benefited as well, notably those who worked on Recettear and Magicka. Their sales soared far higher than they anticipated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%...are_and_impact

Vexx · 2011-03-17, 15:54

aye, other than the "what if the mothership vanishes?" problem, I've found Steam to the best implementation of a reasonable entertainment relationship I've ever encountered. The mechanism has also allowed a great many charming LITTLE games see market reach that never would have happened otherwise.

SaintessHeart · 2011-03-17, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

aye, other than the "what if the mothership vanishes?" problem, I've found Steam to the best implementation of a reasonable entertainment relationship I've ever encountered. The mechanism has also allowed a great many charming LITTLE games see market reach that never would have happened otherwise.

Yeah, but the thing is that once it grows too big, some of the management crew would want a large slice of the the pie for themselves. Then price increase, monopoly attempts kick in, and it grows into another Big Corp.

It is always the middle and the upper-middle of the management that are actually greedy. The ones at the bottom are worried, and the top are so stifled by the information that they don't want to care anymore.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2011-03-17, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

aye, other than the "what if the mothership vanishes?" problem, I've found Steam to the best implementation of a reasonable entertainment relationship I've ever encountered. The mechanism has also allowed a great many charming LITTLE games see market reach that never would have happened otherwise.

I accept Steam, but I will never be totally happy with it until it starts to equalise pricing planet-wide. I should not have to pay twice as much for being an Australian.

roriconfan · 2011-03-17, 19:50

Even if a blue ray will cost 1 dollar, chances are most will still dl it if it is free.
Plus this
http://www.cracked.com/article_18817...d-by-b.s..html

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2011-03-17, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Even if a blue ray will cost 1 dollar, chances are most will still dl it if it is free.
Plus this
http://www.cracked.com/article_18817...d-by-b.s..html

No, MORE (as in, people who have no intention of buying at all) will download it if it is free, not most. However, a Blu Ray is physical, and more permanent than an easily lost file or degradable burned disc.

The (intentional) confusion is that just because there is a lot of people downloading doesn't means you lose sales.

If you hand out free cakes on the street, most people will take one. Does that mean they would all buy a cake from you if you sell them? That's the crazy logic the anti-download people are using.

WanderingKnight · 2011-03-17, 20:41

Duh. I wonder if they ever realized what % of an average employee's monthly salary PC/Xbox/PS3 games are priced at here...

Still, I can say for certain that the PS3 protection HAS worked here. At least somewhat. People here wouldn't have dreamed of buying retail PSX and PS2 games in the past. Now retail PS3 games are actually bought. Of course, it's a really small minority of the people, but it's bigger than in previous generations.

I don't think it justifies it though.

aMpED · 2011-03-19, 04:26

Piracy is fun .
Even if pricing goes down, people will always pirate stuff. Saving $20 on a DVD means spending it on non-piratable things, such as gas ($4 a gallon in California? Really..?).

Nightbat® · 2011-03-20, 10:23

Ok, time to be an egotistical devil's advocate where there are a few points I need to addres

-Why do I have to pay the full price living in a "1st world" country?
This isn't lifesaving medical supplies or food, where I can understand the humanity and neccesity of offering them at lower prices

also
-even in 'rich' countries, there are still 'poor' teens that can't blow a salary on their hobbies but make due with a tiny (or even no) allowance

How about this one
-if they can afford a DVD player, they can afford the media to go along with it

-Take into account global shopping (hello cheap Rx region DVDs!), I'm seeing a lot of problems for distributors (who can go bankrupt for all I care)

Random32 · 2011-03-20, 11:20

Teens that spend money on computers and internet would do so anyways if they did not infringe copyrights. Saying that they have enough money to meet the requirements for online copyright infringement, but somehow lack money to buy dvd's is wrong in my point of view, since they did not spend anything that they would have not spent for other reasons on copyright infringement.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2011-03-20, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

-Take into account global shopping (hello cheap Rx region DVDs!), I'm seeing a lot of problems for distributors (who can go bankrupt for all I care)

Actually, consider the fact that the Internet has rendered the distribution costs of information to a fraction of a cent, it is inevitable that if you don't distribute physical goods, you are going out of business.

Information itself can be valued. But the distribution of information has become so easy that it is no longer economical to transport physical matter around for it.

That's why in order to survive, in the long run one needs to add value by distributing things you can't obtain online.

In that sense, it isn't about piracy in this situation. People just don't expect to pay the same amount of postage to send an email the same way they had to with a physical letter. When you become obsolete, you have to change or die.

2011-03-15, 05:27	Link #1
j0x Giga Drill Breaker Join Date: Jan 2009	Piracy a "Global Pricing Problem" "A major new report from a consortium of academic researchers concludes that media piracy can't be stopped through 'three strikes' Internet disconnections, Web censorship, more police powers, higher statutory damages, or tougher criminal penalties. That's because the piracy of movies, music, video games, and software is 'better described as a global pricing problem'. And the only way to solve it is by changing the price." source: http://www.osnews.com/comments/24523 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...e-solution.ars i say the report is right, each country has different economic level to buy, for example third world countries like the Philippines cannot buy the prices of DVD and BluRays from America, so the problem is darn simple its PRICING

2011-03-15, 05:33	Link #2
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	Well, that'll make the media think twice about ripping people off. __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2011-03-15, 11:29	Link #3
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Wow, someone finally tumbled to reality. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-03-15, 11:36	Link #4
Asuras Dictadere~! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.	Piracy won't be stopped even with better pricing. __________________

2011-03-15, 12:05	Link #7
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	This is another 'duh' moment that the MPAA/RIAA folks don't want to hear. You'll never utterly fix piracy... but the market is telling you your services are too high. These folks are no different than other large egotistic corporations in that they don't actually want to compete but just have a fat happy money stream (which magically vanishes when the actual creative elements want to get paid). __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2011-03-15, 12:13	Link #8
mukansa monkey Pink bug make Amu angry! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Somewhere between Omaha and Minsk	A similar analysis was done some years ago by an economist (not a consortium, so I guess it's not as cool). He was analyzing the music industry specifically. His position was that the people releasing music were making a fundamental mistake by viewing piracy as an irritation to be fought legally, or else ignored. He said piracy should be looked at as competition, with its own advantages and disadvantages. Basically, piracy is free, but it makes people feel a little guilty, and has a small chance of causing serious trouble for the pirate downloader. By looking at piracy as a different source for the same product, he had some interesting thoughts about how to price piratable goods. His primary conclusion was the same, that for any market there's an optimum price point where the most money can be made. Note though that this does not mean piracy can be eliminated this way, nor should it really... the point is that at a certain price the total income is maximized. Drop any lower and the increased # of buyers won't offset the reduced cost per unit. However from what he could tell, $0.99 a song is way above that optimum point. The most interesting point he made is that most piracy happens with new products. A new album or movie comes out, a lot of people download it who are only a bit interested in it. Older songs are more likely to be looked for by someone who's motivated to get it (and therefore more willing to pay than the casuals). Thus he said that new releases should be discounted well below baseline, in order to get more sales. At the time the iTunes store was doing the exact opposite, charging extra for new releases. And therefore shooting themselves in the foot by driving away customers right when there's the most interest. I'm glad to see that these ideas have been expanded onto a larger stage. In the anime industry it's been pretty clear for a long time that the Japanese were slow to pick up on how the US market tends to work. There's a lot more casual viewers on the eastern side of the Pacific who will spend $30 on a box set of a series, but would never pay that much for two episodes. Hopefully in the future we see more consideration of how money can be made on anime outside of Japan. __________________ Folding for the honor of the platform grey_moon: "I guess liking tsundere girls is similar to liking durian, once you get past the horrible smell you can taste the sweet flesh... That sounded a bit rude didn't it "

2011-03-17, 15:47	Link #10
Minorou Hmm... Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Somewhere deep in my thoughts... Age: 33	I think a good example would be the digital distribution software Steam. I've heard quite a few people who decided to buy from steam during a good sale instead of just outright pirating. http://www.shacknews.com/article/573...ft-4-dead-half http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...ed-sales-too/1 Lowered prices obviously mean more sales, but the extra profitability can be staggering. Steam has shown in practice that people respond overwhelmingly well to this kind of pricing strategy. And an extra thing to note: a lot of small independent companies have benefited as well, notably those who worked on Recettear and Magicka. Their sales soared far higher than they anticipated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%...are_and_impact __________________

2011-03-17, 15:54	Link #11
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	aye, other than the "what if the mothership vanishes?" problem, I've found Steam to the best implementation of a reasonable entertainment relationship I've ever encountered. The mechanism has also allowed a great many charming LITTLE games see market reach that never would have happened otherwise. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2011-03-17, 19:50	Link #14
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	Even if a blue ray will cost 1 dollar, chances are most will still dl it if it is free. Plus this http://www.cracked.com/article_18817...d-by-b.s..html

2011-03-17, 20:41	Link #16
WanderingKnight Gregory House IT Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Age: 35	Duh. I wonder if they ever realized what % of an average employee's monthly salary PC/Xbox/PS3 games are priced at here... Still, I can say for certain that the PS3 protection HAS worked here. At least somewhat. People here wouldn't have dreamed of buying retail PSX and PS2 games in the past. Now retail PS3 games are actually bought. Of course, it's a really small minority of the people, but it's bigger than in previous generations. I don't think it justifies it though. __________________ Place them in a box until a quieter time \| Lights down, you up and die.

2011-03-19, 04:26	Link #17
aMpED Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Piracy is fun . Even if pricing goes down, people will always pirate stuff. Saving $20 on a DVD means spending it on non-piratable things, such as gas ($4 a gallon in California? Really..?). __________________

2011-03-20, 10:23	Link #18
Nightbat® Deadpan Snarker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Neverlands Age: 46	Ok, time to be an egotistical devil's advocate where there are a few points I need to addres -Why do I have to pay the full price living in a "1st world" country? This isn't lifesaving medical supplies or food, where I can understand the humanity and neccesity of offering them at lower prices also -even in 'rich' countries, there are still 'poor' teens that can't blow a salary on their hobbies but make due with a tiny (or even no) allowance How about this one -if they can afford a DVD player, they can afford the media to go along with it -Take into account global shopping (hello cheap Rx region DVDs!), I'm seeing a lot of problems for distributors (who can go bankrupt for all I care) __________________

2011-03-20, 11:20	Link #19
Random32 Also a Lolicon Join Date: Apr 2010	Teens that spend money on computers and internet would do so anyways if they did not infringe copyrights. Saying that they have enough money to meet the requirements for online copyright infringement, but somehow lack money to buy dvd's is wrong in my point of view, since they did not spend anything that they would have not spent for other reasons on copyright infringement.