2011-01-18, 00:48 | Link #421 | |
The True Culprit
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Well, more like Rokkenjima Prime is referring to the "Prime" universe, such as in DC and Marvel comic universes where we had Earth/Universe-Prime, Earth/Universe-1, etcetera.
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2011-01-18, 01:25 | Link #422 | |
A novice to anime
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nor*Cal, Rokkenjima, Illusionary World
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If that's the case Ryukishi07 should make an Umineko Crisis that recons all the stuff that happened and restore Rokkenjime Prime back to it's original state.
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Last edited by ClannadDango; 2011-01-18 at 01:37. |
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2011-01-18, 01:56 | Link #423 | |||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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So if it's an error it's yet another hint that Kyrie is suspicious and we get an elaborate troll. If it's deliberate it's an early sequel hook and we get yet another elaborate troll. I might just be tired of being trolled. ^^;
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Last edited by Judoh; 2011-01-18 at 02:23. |
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2011-01-18, 12:05 | Link #425 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...me#post2971652 Although, I have to say that it was my friend who thought of that name first... I just re-used it when I first posted it here... By the way, have you guys seen how the Author Theory has spread throughout the rest of the web? I mean, before it was validated in EP8... |
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2011-01-18, 14:33 | Link #427 |
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Yeah, I guess most of the things we learned were answers ever since Ep5. And we were introduced to Hachijo in 6. Perhaps I should say it's no longer deniable in Ep 8.
I see in the Ep 7 thread that it still is deniable somehow. 8) (I'm not going to post there; too afraid I'll spoil someone.) |
2011-01-18, 14:38 | Link #428 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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It's incredible how strong the denial can be in some people.
As aura said, after EP6 the matter should have been settled, and yet after EP7 there's still people that deny it. Is it even worth discussing about it?
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2011-01-18, 21:51 | Link #429 |
Sticky Fingers
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About Author Theory. I'm not sure I fully understand it. I have many questions.
It bothers me a little that they always called the first four games Beato's Games, but actually the last two were written by Touya. It would fit better if Touya had only written EP5-8. Although one thing that makes sense is that the first two games (Beato's message bottles) are the only ones where we can say for sure that Yasu was the culprit. Fitting with what she had planned to do that day in Rokkenjima Prime. And does that mean that the characters introduced from Banquet onwards were all created by Touya? Most of them are supposed to be part of the Mariage Sorciere characters created by Beatrice. I think she may have told everything to him at the end in the real October 4-5, and the scene with Battler and Beato in October 6th is real, cause what other explanation is there? After all, Touya's tales have too many details. Also I kept expecting Lambda's "vessel" to show up in the real world like the Bern cat but it didn't (by this I mean what Touya/Ikuko modeled them after, because I understand that they really represent the concepts of Certainty and Miracles, especially around Ange and her wishes, and that's why they're "Voyagers" and not actually "characters of the story" like Lambda says). And actually Bern appears even in EP1 so that confuses me too with respect to the Authors, it's almost like the EP1 and EP2 ????? Tea Parties were thrown in by Touya as "Extra footage" in a special re-release edition or something. I feel like almost everything points to there not being any kind of real Metaworld, especially after EP8, so I'm trying to explain everything like that but there are still a bunch of things that confuse me like Ange's sudden complete change of heart on the rooftop, or how she could know the One Truth in the real world (or does she?) if she never really read the diary (which probably was completely fabricated by Ikuko). You could explain the things she says and her supposed memories of being in the games by saying that she read Touya's stories and got way too immersed in them to the point that she was "daydreaming" like the Trick ending says and understood its messages, etc., but then what made her change so suddenly from her suicidal thoughts? Was she reading Twilight of the Golden Witch on the Rooftop at that time or what? I have other things but I'll stop for now. |
2011-01-18, 22:08 | Link #430 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well from my point of view... the various episodes we have seen aren't "exactly" the stories that were shown in the world of 1998.
As you pointed out, how the hell Bern could figure in EP1? At the very least the tea parties shouldn't be included. Or think about EP6. Is the novel that Ange reads the very same thing that we read? Sure there is a Featherinne in that story. But is Ange reading about herself talking to Hachijo Touya and reading her story? I think I've seen something like that happening somewhere...
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2011-01-18, 22:21 | Link #431 | ||||||
The True Culprit
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That, or Hachijou is a fucking liar and she found EP3 and EP4 as message bottles and plagiarized them. Quote:
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2011-01-18, 22:33 | Link #432 | |
Sticky Fingers
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The real Ange from 1998 probably did read Touya's stories including EP6, but not in Featherine's study or anything at all like EP6 itself shows. Imagine her lying in her bed reading those scenes and thinking what the hell is this guy doing putting me in these books. However some scenes are probably really not in the real stories. Mostly the ones that are too meta. Maybe it's all just one level higher and it's supposed to be for our sake as readers with Ryukishi himself as the Author. Haha. |
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2011-01-18, 22:45 | Link #433 | |
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 54
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Spaceballs? Well, there goes the planet.
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2011-01-18, 22:54 | Link #434 | ||||
Sticky Fingers
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Though you could say Featherine becomes "perfectly normal" Hachijou when she enters the human world and only has magic when she enters the "higher plane" I guess... It does say that she looks abnormally young even in the world after many decades. Quote:
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Also Beatrice only says that in Battler's game full of lies. |
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2011-01-18, 23:08 | Link #435 | ||
a.k.a. Akari_House
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I agree that the Meta World is as real and relevant here as it is in Higurashi--that is to say it is part of the mechanism that facilitates the story and observation of it, but is not in itself a part of the actual core puzzle. As such, I think the cat is actually the 1998 world avatar/piece of Bern, not the other way around. So yeah, I guess I'm thinking meta-world witches are "real", just not the culprit. Yet maybe that is also part of the point, that since Yasu wrote the first two stories and deliberately cut them short of their endings, she was creating her theoretical "mystery turned fantasy" she spoke of in episode 7 and thus the intended culprit of the stories (not Rokkenjima Prime) is simply Yasu-Beatrice after all...the self-made witch is real, and there is no "mystery" in her bottle stories beyond this broken-off Christie scenario. But...that's not really satisfying in itself, is it? Hmph.
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2011-01-18, 23:17 | Link #436 | ||||||
The True Culprit
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2011-01-18, 23:29 | Link #437 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
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2011-01-18, 23:49 | Link #438 | |||
Sticky Fingers
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2011-01-19, 02:28 | Link #439 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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You know, we could argue which world was 'on top' but I have a feeling that Ryukishi could very well write that both the Meta-World and Rokkenjima-Prime cross-created each other. And that in each world the other would be viewed as subordinate.
For his next series, if he continues to develop Bernkastel and Lambdadelta (or anyone or anything from the MetaWorld) further, he may need to justify their existence if there was some doubt previously I imagine he would butcher another quantum theory about dual particles (i.e. proton and anti-proton) coming into existence at the same time and travelling away from each other with exact, but opposite spins, and yet always tied to each other via Quantum Entanglement. |
2011-01-19, 02:36 | Link #440 | |
A novice to anime
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Yes throwing in some butchered, thinly veiled quantum theory is the best way to explain anything. (But then again for those who don't understand or know of quantum physics I guess it suits them fine.)
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