AnimeSuki Forums

synaesthetic · 2011-05-31, 19:16

If you can't stand her, that means my plan is working.

It was my intention to make her unsympathetic from the start. Arrogant, full of herself and seriously troubled, that's our heroine.

Remember that traditionally, heroes are supposed to have some sort of fatal flaw. In Greek tragedies, heroes are often not what we in the modern world would consider a hero (I mean, just look at Hercules... dude was sent on his heroic tasks because he murdered his wife and children).

Alisa's fatal flaw should be obvious... she refuses to deal with the world outside of killing the enemy and her interactions with Rin. Shuts everyone else out, poor social skills on purpose, is generally aloof and standoffish. This is going to cause her a serious problem very soon, in a spectacular moment of Break the Cutie/Jerkass/etc.

The way I see my protagonist is sort of mixed. I feel bad for Alisa, but she's her own worst enemy, and it's going to force her to deal with the world she keeps running from, whether she likes it or not.

RadiantBeam · 2011-05-31, 19:41

Okay, then.

As long as I'm supposed to find her unsympathetic, and I'm just not misinterpreting what you're doing with her, then I feel less guilty about it.

Honestly, I can understand where she's coming from, and I find her situation itself sympathetic. Some of the sympathy dies down when you realize that beyond, well, her high kill list and her relationship with Rin, a lot of it is something she brings on herself.

synaesthetic · 2011-05-31, 19:58

Most of it is her fault.

If she wouldn't act like such a Jerkass all the time, and actually socialize, talk to people, not act all hermit-like and creepy... and you know, maybe let other people interact with Rin... then, well, she wouldn't have any problems!

And we'd also have no plot! So, she has to have issues, so we can have the character development later.

This is actually the first time I've really written a Jerkass protagonist, so I'm glad it's coming across correctly.

Liingo · 2011-05-31, 20:48

No need to rush on those tech dumps. As much as I appreciate them, I'd much rather have the story first. The quality/quantity disparity was alluded to in one of the shorts, where spirits thread I believe when it talked about the kill ratios.

I'm not sure why, but I'm imagining something happening to Rin which will force Alisa back into the world. Her move into the long range fighter wing certainly isn't going to help how things stand atm regarding Rin and her 'lone wolf' mentality.

Anywho I look forward to being entertained in the future

synaesthetic · 2011-05-31, 23:57

Not so much something happening to Rin, but something involving her, yes. The move to the long-range assault wing was Alisa running away from her problems instead of facing them. Those pilots go on solo hit-and-fade missions almost exclusively, so she doesn't have to deal with people.

Or so she thinks. You're human, you always have to deal with people. Good people, bad people, annoying people, evil people, always have to deal with others, unless you're the only one left alive. So even though she's running, reality is gaining on her.

It's going to catch her soon.

Kotohono · 2011-06-01, 02:51

Both of the back-story chapters were really enjoyable to read, and while I am not finding Alisa as unlikable currently as RB is; however , I can see quite well how her actions in the past and presently are somewhat furthering the cycle that's between her and the others in the alliance that keeps bring her trouble.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-01, 12:23

The two new efforts from you are very solid, syn. In terms of pacing, setting a mood, flowing from one event to another seamlessly without missing anything, creating characters that are engaging - you've done all those things very well. I enjoy reading your pieces for sure.

Couple of nitpicks if I may.

I sometimes can't get a visual feel of things. Places, backgrounds, tension - I can. People - not really. I feel that with almost any literature, actually. It's one major reason I read less than I used to - there are very few titles that give me enough description to get a decent idea of what a scene and particularly the people in it look like. Maybe it's just me. *shrug*

My other point would be since you're going for a character-oriented title, be careful of how the mood you're setting affects that. Generally, character-oriented series tend to really run a slow pacing to distract people from the fact there is little going on with the plot because they'll be swimming in tryptophan too much to care and focusing on the characters to a point they will care little about the plot. The mood you're setting is stimulating, so people will be expecting a reasonable amount of plot development because since things are of a more exciting vibe, there will need to be a purpose and a path to it. Just keep that in mind.

Another thing I'm wondering is what specific take on robot-human relationships will you be exploring, as well as things like power and the role of a soldier? Will you be looking at it from a more moral point like Nagai or a more 'what is it to be human' point like Matsumoto? I'm guessing more of Matsumoto from what I've seen. Is literature by Asimov playing any part? He certainly explored the 'robots becoming more human/human-robot relationship' angle.

Good work thus far, syn. Keep it up.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-03, 05:35

I have to say that was probably your best effort yet, syn.

It flowed from beginning to end so very well. The impulsive, inquisitive nature of Rin leapt off the page very well. There was a bit of mystique and humour to it all without feeling naive or contrived. It all felt plausible. Felt more visually in tune with the scenario. And it ended on a tense moment. Great execution, keep it up.

RadiantBeam · 2011-06-03, 20:35

I'm in love with Rin. Can I take her home with me?

synaesthetic · 2011-06-03, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

I have to say that was probably your best effort yet, syn.

It flowed from beginning to end so very well. The impulsive, inquisitive nature of Rin leapt off the page very well. There was a bit of mystique and humour to it all without feeling naive or contrived. It all felt plausible. Felt more visually in tune with the scenario. And it ended on a tense moment. Great execution, keep it up.

Why thank you.

I appreciate your comment because honestly this was the part I had the most trouble writing so far. It took a lot of serious thinking and planning in order to get Rin's random adventures to sound plausible and remain interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I'm in love with Rin. Can I take her home with me?

Rin inspires the Rena Ryuugu instinct in everyone.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-03, 22:25

Actually, I felt impulses more like Pino from Ergo Proxy. The whole 'witty, cutesy AI going on random adventurer while their minder/owner isn't in the know about it' is a good way to have some fun. And some of those actions of Rin's were very Pino-like.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-03, 23:00

Huh, interesting to know. I never actually managed to get more than a few episodes into that show before I started getting very bored.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-03, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Huh, interesting to know. I never actually managed to get more than a few episodes into that show before I started getting very bored.

As if you didn't want to seduce Re-l Mayer.

Pino was quite the catalyst for humour. She had an episode dedicated to her in Episode 19 and that one was just an absolute riot.

Kotohono · 2011-06-05, 00:19

Good work syn the chapter was not only amusing, but it clearly showed while Rin understands emotions, and such but that she really doesn't quite get the differences from her body and humans yet it seems, and which lets her stand out a bit without even trying to in front of other people

.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-05, 02:11

Another good effort. You handled a very heated moment well - you gave it the spite and confrontation it needed, but you didn't let it get too sappy in the aftermath.

Perhaps this is the first time we've really seen Alisa as a person at all, aside from her breakdown with Reynolds? Ironically, thus far, Rin has been the more human of the two yet she is the AI. Speaking with the ex-soldier certainly brought home some truths about Alisa's occupation while Rin utterly ignited them. Alisa's backed herself in a corner, but at least she's wanting to crawl out of it. Seeing her worried, not in control, out of her comfort zone - this is an Alisa that appeals.

Finally occurred to me Alisa is rather possessive of Rin. That Rin is part of the panacea that Alisa created to shield herself from the world. Rin certainly resented becoming part of the excuse and isn't about to take it anymore. If Alisa is to get over her insecurities and issues, she will need to be less possessive of Rin. Yet I feel somehow that won't be the case.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-05, 02:22

This could have only ended the way it did because Rin was the source of it.

Also, Alisa doesn't mean to be possessive, but she can't really help herself. She isolates herself, pushes everyone else away out of fear that she'll get hurt--and Rin is the only person inside this shell she's created. If she loses Rin, she's got nothing left.

Hopefully for Alisa, now that the shell has been cracked, she will get better.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-05, 02:26

As long as you don't go Fiona McIntosh on your characters. Man, she was one of the most brutal, uninhibited authors, if not the most, I'd ever read in terms of what she would put her characters through. You wouldn't think it once you personally met her. Fairly nice, refined, classy woman but yikes - you don't want to be a character in a Fiona McIntosh novel. You're doomed either way. Furthermore, while she really laid on the violence - physical and sexual - and the pain, she always shyed away from positive sexual moments, cutting them short or jumping to the aftermath the moment someone started slipping their shirt off. Reading her work somewhat scarred me because she wrote such grim trilogies and it seemed to make people feel somewhat grim about life themselves. It was only since she had decent lead male and females characters that I finished one of her trilogies.

Then again, the more fantasy and mature genres I read, people seem to love the pain being laid on really thick.

RadiantBeam · 2011-06-05, 10:52

I certainly saw it coming, but damn if it wasn't a little bit painful to read.

All the same, though, it seems Alisa's off to a decent start with Jacob, at least, and Rin now has a friend in Natalie. I don't think Rin's explosion at Alisa is going to completely solve the problem, obviously; it's one thing to be called out on a sixteen-year-old issue, and another thing completely to try and resolve it. But Alisa has shown that when she opens up to people a bit, she can get along with them pretty well, so there's hope for her yet.

Also, I'm calling it. Natalie totally becomes Rin's mother figure, or something. Just because.

Last Sinner · 2011-06-05, 11:12

Is that going to be possible considering this is a very short break on a station they might not come back to for weeks or months? I honestly got the impression these were people they may not cross paths with again but were important influences on the main characters despite their short time together.

synaesthetic · 2011-06-05, 12:09

Once the Infiltrator finishes repairs, Alisa and Rin are going to be stuck in deep space on a six-month tour of duty. Knowing this, it's unlikely that they will run into Jacob or Natalie and the baseball kids any time soon.

But you never know. Shit happens, after all.

2011-05-31, 19:16	Link #21
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	If you can't stand her, that means my plan is working. It was my intention to make her unsympathetic from the start. Arrogant, full of herself and seriously troubled, that's our heroine. Remember that traditionally, heroes are supposed to have some sort of fatal flaw. In Greek tragedies, heroes are often not what we in the modern world would consider a hero (I mean, just look at Hercules... dude was sent on his heroic tasks because he murdered his wife and children). Alisa's fatal flaw should be obvious... she refuses to deal with the world outside of killing the enemy and her interactions with Rin. Shuts everyone else out, poor social skills on purpose, is generally aloof and standoffish. This is going to cause her a serious problem very soon, in a spectacular moment of Break the Cutie/Jerkass/etc. The way I see my protagonist is sort of mixed. I feel bad for Alisa, but she's her own worst enemy, and it's going to force her to deal with the world she keeps running from, whether she likes it or not. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-05-31, 19:58	Link #23
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Most of it is her fault. If she wouldn't act like such a Jerkass all the time, and actually socialize, talk to people, not act all hermit-like and creepy... and you know, maybe let other people interact with Rin... then, well, she wouldn't have any problems! And we'd also have no plot! So, she has to have issues, so we can have the character development later. This is actually the first time I've really written a Jerkass protagonist, so I'm glad it's coming across correctly. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-05-31, 23:57	Link #25
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Not so much something happening to Rin, but something involving her, yes. The move to the long-range assault wing was Alisa running away from her problems instead of facing them. Those pilots go on solo hit-and-fade missions almost exclusively, so she doesn't have to deal with people. Or so she thinks. You're human, you always have to deal with people. Good people, bad people, annoying people, evil people, always have to deal with others, unless you're the only one left alive. So even though she's running, reality is gaining on her. It's going to catch her soon. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-06-01, 12:23	Link #27
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	The two new efforts from you are very solid, syn. In terms of pacing, setting a mood, flowing from one event to another seamlessly without missing anything, creating characters that are engaging - you've done all those things very well. I enjoy reading your pieces for sure. Couple of nitpicks if I may. I sometimes can't get a visual feel of things. Places, backgrounds, tension - I can. People - not really. I feel that with almost any literature, actually. It's one major reason I read less than I used to - there are very few titles that give me enough description to get a decent idea of what a scene and particularly the people in it look like. Maybe it's just me. shrug My other point would be since you're going for a character-oriented title, be careful of how the mood you're setting affects that. Generally, character-oriented series tend to really run a slow pacing to distract people from the fact there is little going on with the plot because they'll be swimming in tryptophan too much to care and focusing on the characters to a point they will care little about the plot. The mood you're setting is stimulating, so people will be expecting a reasonable amount of plot development because since things are of a more exciting vibe, there will need to be a purpose and a path to it. Just keep that in mind. Another thing I'm wondering is what specific take on robot-human relationships will you be exploring, as well as things like power and the role of a soldier? Will you be looking at it from a more moral point like Nagai or a more 'what is it to be human' point like Matsumoto? I'm guessing more of Matsumoto from what I've seen. Is literature by Asimov playing any part? He certainly explored the 'robots becoming more human/human-robot relationship' angle. Good work thus far, syn. Keep it up. __________________

2011-06-03, 05:35	Link #28
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	I have to say that was probably your best effort yet, syn. It flowed from beginning to end so very well. The impulsive, inquisitive nature of Rin leapt off the page very well. There was a bit of mystique and humour to it all without feeling naive or contrived. It all felt plausible. Felt more visually in tune with the scenario. And it ended on a tense moment. Great execution, keep it up. __________________

2011-05-31, 20:48	Link #24
Liingo Love Hina? Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kangaroos live in my backyard =P	No need to rush on those tech dumps. As much as I appreciate them, I'd much rather have the story first. The quality/quantity disparity was alluded to in one of the shorts, where spirits thread I believe when it talked about the kill ratios. I'm not sure why, but I'm imagining something happening to Rin which will force Alisa back into the world. Her move into the long range fighter wing certainly isn't going to help how things stand atm regarding Rin and her 'lone wolf' mentality. Anywho I look forward to being entertained in the future

2011-06-03, 22:25	Link #31
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Actually, I felt impulses more like Pino from Ergo Proxy. The whole 'witty, cutesy AI going on random adventurer while their minder/owner isn't in the know about it' is a good way to have some fun. And some of those actions of Rin's were very Pino-like. __________________

2011-06-03, 23:00	Link #32
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Huh, interesting to know. I never actually managed to get more than a few episodes into that show before I started getting very bored. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-06-05, 02:11	Link #35
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Another good effort. You handled a very heated moment well - you gave it the spite and confrontation it needed, but you didn't let it get too sappy in the aftermath. Perhaps this is the first time we've really seen Alisa as a person at all, aside from her breakdown with Reynolds? Ironically, thus far, Rin has been the more human of the two yet she is the AI. Speaking with the ex-soldier certainly brought home some truths about Alisa's occupation while Rin utterly ignited them. Alisa's backed herself in a corner, but at least she's wanting to crawl out of it. Seeing her worried, not in control, out of her comfort zone - this is an Alisa that appeals. Finally occurred to me Alisa is rather possessive of Rin. That Rin is part of the panacea that Alisa created to shield herself from the world. Rin certainly resented becoming part of the excuse and isn't about to take it anymore. If Alisa is to get over her insecurities and issues, she will need to be less possessive of Rin. Yet I feel somehow that won't be the case. __________________

2011-06-05, 02:22	Link #36
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	This could have only ended the way it did because Rin was the source of it. Also, Alisa doesn't mean to be possessive, but she can't really help herself. She isolates herself, pushes everyone else away out of fear that she'll get hurt--and Rin is the only person inside this shell she's created. If she loses Rin, she's got nothing left. Hopefully for Alisa, now that the shell has been cracked, she will get better. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-06-05, 02:26	Link #37
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	As long as you don't go Fiona McIntosh on your characters. Man, she was one of the most brutal, uninhibited authors, if not the most, I'd ever read in terms of what she would put her characters through. You wouldn't think it once you personally met her. Fairly nice, refined, classy woman but yikes - you don't want to be a character in a Fiona McIntosh novel. You're doomed either way. Furthermore, while she really laid on the violence - physical and sexual - and the pain, she always shyed away from positive sexual moments, cutting them short or jumping to the aftermath the moment someone started slipping their shirt off. Reading her work somewhat scarred me because she wrote such grim trilogies and it seemed to make people feel somewhat grim about life themselves. It was only since she had decent lead male and females characters that I finished one of her trilogies. Then again, the more fantasy and mature genres I read, people seem to love the pain being laid on really thick. __________________ Last edited by Last Sinner; 2011-06-05 at 02:43.

2011-06-05, 11:12	Link #39
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Is that going to be possible considering this is a very short break on a station they might not come back to for weeks or months? I honestly got the impression these were people they may not cross paths with again but were important influences on the main characters despite their short time together. __________________

2011-06-05, 12:09	Link #40
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Once the Infiltrator finishes repairs, Alisa and Rin are going to be stuck in deep space on a six-month tour of duty. Knowing this, it's unlikely that they will run into Jacob or Natalie and the baseball kids any time soon. But you never know. Shit happens, after all. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!