2009-07-03, 10:05 | Link #8661 |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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The 'complete'? Please clarify; I don't recall it at all in the anime, but I admit to not paying much attention to side material. What you said could apply to nearly any point in the anime starting with Mao's appearance. She certainly knew he didn't hate her in S1, and what you said still leaves the matter of after Lelouch, and how much she wants eternity as opposed to giving up immortality and simply leaving the Code with Suzaku while she lives the rest of her days out peacefully.
It certainly doesn't rule out giving Suzaku a Geass, even without the intention of transfering the Code later. Since Suzaku is the enactor of his and Lelouch's final conspiracy, if he led her to believe that it was needed to keep that dream alive, she'd be more willing to give him the means to do so. |
2009-07-03, 11:26 | Link #8662 | ||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2009-07-03, 11:43 | Link #8663 |
Wielder of Cucumbers
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
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Ha, Suzaku getting a Geass and getting CC's Code? That happened in my fic XD
And I understand it's a bit of a crack theory, but it does make me wonder... you know that last line he says to Lelouch? "I accept that Geass." Hm. He hates Geass, but he also hated what Zero stood for. It's very, very unlikely it happened, but I'm pretty sure I'm okay with saying the possibility is definitely still there... and if he took CC's Code eventually, it would mean Zero could remain and he would stay alive forever, eternally punished and forever atoning for his sins by helping the world. Which sounds like something he wouldn't entirely dislike doing... >_> |
2009-07-03, 13:14 | Link #8664 | |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2009-07-03, 13:46 | Link #8666 |
blinded by blood
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And not all Geass are as insidious as Lelouch's or the Emperor's.
Both Bismarck and Rolo had Geass that did nothing to alter the will or directly harm a person and could easily be used for noble goals. So could Mao's, for that matter.
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2009-07-03, 16:30 | Link #8668 |
Wielder of Cucumbers
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
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Ah, but he was willing to drench his hands completely in sin by the end of the show, right? So, if he thought it was for the sake of the world... I can imagine him accepting being the last and only bearer of a Geass and then Code. *shrug*
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2009-07-03, 16:46 | Link #8669 |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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By the end, Suzaku had realized that he couldn't do shit on his own, and his efforts were just getting people killed. He backed the winning horse and all that came with it. Now that the deed is done, he's not going to reintroduce sin "just in case."
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2009-07-05, 06:34 | Link #8671 | |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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On another note, would someone please explain what 'the complete' referred to? Or, if moroboro already did, someone not on my ignore list? (Shouldn't be hard with only three names on it.) |
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2009-07-05, 07:01 | Link #8672 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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suzaku suffered the most severe case of character derailment in the anime when the last arc came along the man went from being idealistic and a believer in right and wrong and that one shouldnt achive a result using the wrong means to a full on "ends justify the means" type character he fully accepts the use of human shields, "we have reserves" tactics, mind-rape inslavement, violation of international protocol (using the pretext of a peace offer as a trap),mass murder of anyone who doesnt think like them in britannia, the use of a natural disaster to gain a tactical advatage, and basiclly deception on a GLOBLE scale to make him self seem like a hero, by getting rid of a tyrant HE HELPED PUT IN POWER. this is CLEARLY taking this shift WAY too far from his character the suzaku of ep 22 only LOOKS like suzaku the original suzaku seems to have died along with 25 million other people in the tokyo settelment when the fleija went off he also loses ALL CONCERN with human life, putting down his fellow KoR without a moments hesitation (sparing only gino, while offering a "we could rule together" type thing), and cares nothing for the soldiers that lelouch sacrifices in order to promote his new goal and when lelouch shows hesitation about his plan after learing that his little sister is still alive and would be his enemy, suzaku is the one that shakes him down and tells him to suck it up (his following line to C.C doesnt help) the fact that he is perfectly willing to sit around and WATCH while lelouch turns thousends of people into mindless slaves with his geass is alone a complete derailment of his character (just remember what kept him from raping the dog in ep 15) even after he suffered a mental breakdown in ep 20 and went after the emperor, he STILL viewed geass as a sinful thing that should be destroyed and yet in ep 22 he is perfectly willing to use it for the sake of their plan (destroying the lives of countless people in the process) you can make an argument that LELOUCH had changed A LITTLE (he was always willing to do what ever it took, he just took it to farther extremes) but suzaku got DERAILED, full on
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2009-07-06, 12:39 | Link #8673 |
Pon pon pon
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rio
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Blade, my brotha, i disagree with you. I know you don't like the final arc at all, but i think it's not like that. You say Suzaku died with the first fleija, but i think he just learned a lesson after that, that sometimes you've got to use fire to fight fire. There's a saying here that it's like this "what is a scratch to someone who is already beaten up?"(well, it's not like this, but it's kinda ugly to say the actual one, so i'll stay with this one). The fleija showed Suzaku that his hand were already soaked in blood and there's no turning back. It's more like he understood the true horrors of the war and wished to end the chain of hatred, even if he end turning into a monster in the process, which is what happened in the end.
About the KOR, well, those guys wanted to kill Lelouch and Suzaku... There's another way to end this without getting rid of them? Suzaku killed a lot of soldies in the war. It's not like he could spare all of them. He did with Gino cause he was the only one that could really change. If he did that with the other ones, they probably would get back to Schneisel's base, get another KMF and try their luck again. It's like this. And in the war, you can't let skilled people like these running away... It's not like Suzaku did all that happy and laughing like a mad man. He was sad, but it was needed to end that stupid war. It's just that. Suzaku still is a lovable guy and still wants a better world for everyone to enjoy, it's just that, at moment, he chooses to end the war instead of just fighting in the war. |
2009-07-06, 13:05 | Link #8674 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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suzaku helps lelouch take over britannia while grudgingly accepting that he has to use geass and other, less then honorable means, in order to do so
lelouch changes britannia from within lelouch leads britannia to join the UFN world peace is created. thats a "learned his lesson" conclusion THATS a "needing to end the war" suzaku helps lelouch take over britannia while not caring in the slightest what this intales helping lelouch take kaguya and the UFN representitives hostage, and basiclly kick start another round of world war 3 because they WANT to do that, rather then just make peace in the first place (ending the war) thats taking things WAY too far for proper character development contrast suzaku of ep 18 with suzaku of ep 20 and you can hardly even call them the same person hence, character derailment
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2009-07-06, 16:27 | Link #8675 |
Wielder of Cucumbers
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
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Suzaku didn't quite get 'derailed' by the FLEIJA incident. We already saw him go raging lack of care for human life once before, back at the end of Season One. All throughout Season Two, he was on the verge of slipping back into the more impulsive, hot-headed character that he had in his childhood. FLEIJA was simply the final straw that sort of pushed him off the deep end and made him give up everything of his already crumbling moral code and sense of right and wrong.
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2009-07-06, 17:09 | Link #8676 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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in season 1 ending he was raged and grief driven
suzaku in the final arc of season 2 is anything BUT rage driven he is cold and calculated and just plain indifferent to human life
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2009-07-06, 17:16 | Link #8677 |
Wielder of Cucumbers
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
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He always had the potential to completely disregard human life in view of the goal, he just always looked for ways out of it and lied to himself and tried to maintain the moral high ground.
He went batshit in season one because he was rage and grief driven. But by the end of season two, after all the guilt and excuses and everything had just been weighing on him for so long and it still didn't change anything he just sort of snapped. He gave a big 'EFF YOU' to all the morals that he'd been trying to persuade himself that he had and basically decided he no longer cared, he'd do whatever it took to fix things. He always had the potential to do it --- it was shown when he almost drugged Kallen, it was shown when he killed rebels on orders --- he just always held himself back. After FLEIJA, he decided that holding himself accomplished nothing. |
2009-07-06, 17:28 | Link #8678 |
Banned
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Suzaku had joined Britannia with the notion to change it "within." While, he had not problem seeing how many Elevens were killed each sec, and how many countries were fucked up from his oh-so-nice-system he decided to suck on. Basically Suzaku, saved one life a day, and was in-directly responsible for 48304930493043 other lives a day. I guess he hit the point at some point and said "oh what the fuck am i doing?"
Something like this. |
2009-07-06, 17:37 | Link #8679 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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let me get this straight sky
suzaku notices suddenly that everything he had been doing up till then didnt work because he was killing and hurting more people then he was helping said "oh what the fuck am i doing? and the conclusion he comes to is that he needs to drop his pretense that he is helping people and just focus more on the killing and hurting part ? not that maybe he should stop fighting for the empire that made him into a mass murderer ? seems a little off
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2009-07-06, 17:41 | Link #8680 | |
Banned
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Just following the show, one man can get crazy in one night. All it takes, is a moment at times. 8D |
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