2019-01-14, 00:01 | Link #241 | ||
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
Her older version is also still in shackles... - Regardless of source material it's still entirely possible for the anime to just not keep the slave seal on her. But at this point all evidence points to the slave seal staying on, so until proven otherwise (maybe she doesn't have the seal shown on her chest) you can all stop throwing this excuse already every time an argument to discussion is brought up. Quote:
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2019-01-14, 00:03 | Link #242 |
Crazy Devout Fanboy
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 1st Ra Cailum-class battleship Ra Cailum, port-side officer's bunks
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Nice try.
The haters absolutely get louder the more popular a series gets. It doesn’t matter if anybody opposes them. Your still going on about this proves it. But having read the manga, it’s also funny watching you go on about this.
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2019-01-14, 00:59 | Link #244 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United States of America
Age: 32
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Quote:
There are real world examples of this by the way. Even today, child labor is in use in many parts of the world and many a people employ kids from rural areas or orphans or other unfortunate kids in cities. Kids who would otherwise die in the street. Many of these employers aren't living the best of lives themselves, and do their best to accommodate the children as best as they can. Of course, abuse is rampant as well. Many kids are however employed for less taxing jbos such as a restaurant, or housekeeping, and are provided accommodations they otherwise wouldn't have, leading to their attaining a better future than they otherwise would have. I am not sure if I can insist that the people who employ these kids are evil even if their future is tied to their employers by and large until they attain adulthood at minimum. The governments in these countries are too poor to provide a social safety net for kids. I certainly don't have a better solution. I also can't commend the system and recognize the dangers with it and wish for humanity to improve past it. But to label people with genuinely good intentions -- and more importantly, genuinely productive results, as evil for some abstract sense of morality also feels hypocritical at best and counterproductive at worst.
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2019-01-14, 01:23 | Link #245 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
But getting back to the initial premise. Let's put the argument to the test: If you pick up a girl off the street and stick her in your basement as your property, are you a saint?The obvious choice would be to find some place where she can be taken care of, notify authorities in case she ran away from home, or become her guardian (official or otherwise) with her consent; not for her to become your property.
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2019-01-14, 01:32 | Link #246 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ireland
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Naofumi is an anti-hero. He does bad things but "the ends justify the means". Bad things include threatening shopkeepers with slimes, buying slaves and being falsely accused of rape.
I feel that the above statement is something that everyone will agree on. So what exactly are people arguing about? I think the answer to "is Naofumi acting morally by buying a slave" is no. The question "is Naofumi buying a slaver justified" is a different question. It's a very standard anti-hero question. |
2019-01-14, 01:54 | Link #247 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
With regard to the question of is him buying a slave is justified, I believe the answer is yes it is. However if we focus on that question there's also the issue that, it's justified if he buys a "useful" one given his circumstances. However I already provided a loophole to that. Also I agree with your first sentence.
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2019-01-14, 04:55 | Link #248 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Italy
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Quote:
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2019-01-14, 04:57 | Link #249 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Valhalla
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Quote:
Well, technically you're kinda right in that post, but that's not all to it. Anime simply skipped most slave choosing part. Spoiler for it was in this ep but I will put that in spoiler just in case:
Also see one of problems there. Quote:
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2019-01-14, 05:29 | Link #250 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
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My God, I disappear some time from the topic and the same discussions continue ....
I honestly think this discussion is fruitless. People do not usually change their ideals easily even if there is evidence that they are wrong, if that were so, there would be no racism in the world even after the various scientific evidence that we all belong to the same human race. But now I would really like to see what the Western world's reaction would be like if by some chance Volume 4 of classroom of the elite was adapted into anime. Whether villains doing evil things or creating a situation where the protagonist needs to resort to nothing heroic means to survive generates so much controversy. I wonder what the reaction would be like when is the protagonist doing things like that, acting calmly and taking every aspect of his plan into account to create a parasite and host relationship with a character of the opposite sex. God, I'm going to laugh a lot if by some miracle that day comes. Anyone know if there is any information about the dubbed version? I'm really curious to know if there was any change. |
2019-01-14, 07:57 | Link #251 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
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At the risk of being spoilery (and possibly upsetting a few people from using a real life example), is there any fundamentally differences between 'slavery' and 'military conscription'?
Both 'slaves' and 'conscripts' (as per a general understanding without getting into specific example cases) ○ Are forced to serve a 'person of authority' and do not have 'freedom' to do as they please (must obey commands, do as they are told, else, consequences) ○ Are (generally) unable to refuse instructions of said authority (can't exactly 'reject' a suicide mission, assuming they have the foresight to realise they're being sent to their deaths) ○ etc. Many people would probably want to 'avoid being in jail', and yet there are plenty of cases (at least there are in places like Australia, UK) where people would rather be in jail than not. Granted these people may otherwise be homeless/living on the street, but 'giving up their freedom' actually affords them a better quality of life than they would otherwise have.
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2019-01-14, 08:02 | Link #252 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
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I wonder if Naofumi was a woman and Raphitalia a boy, would there be such a controversy?
There would probably be many people defending their relationship as two victims of the circumstances .... Taking into account that nobody will complain on twitter when a man is raped or a victim of violence of any woman. It shows how the world is today. |
2019-01-14, 08:35 | Link #253 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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Before I drop my 2 cents, I am against slavery.
Now here I drop it. It seems that a lot in this topic seems to project the pre-American Civil War type of slavery, where basically the slaves are at the mercy of their masters' whims who have right of life and death over them. But there is other civilizations where being a slave is not as dire as their situation is. Roman civilization or those like the Ottomans are among those, or the Pre-French Revolution French colonies of the Carribeans when Le Code Noir have been implemented. They have some rights, masters cant kill them as they please, those slaves even have the possibility to be freed, enjoy social ascension. In the case of the French colonies from before the Revolution, slaves were allowed to rest on Sundays and holidays, can marry and their masters have had the obligation to feed them and dress them. What I mean is that , from the first episode, anime-only viewers have literally NO way to know what are the status of slaves, AND semi-humans, what they can and cannot, and what a noble or a free man of the kingdom can do to a slave or a semi-human. Especially a semi-human who is a slave or is not. |
2019-01-14, 09:03 | Link #254 | |
Many RPGs, Little Time
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You bois doing it again, and this is why I said that!
Quote:
Demi-humans also probably have their own land or/and live separately from civilization and in the wilderness. But like you said, WHO KNOWS, as anime watchers we dont have this information yet. Speculating is fun.
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2019-01-14, 09:10 | Link #256 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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For all we know, Bitchface may have been the kind of hunt semi-humans for sport, she looked like a spoiled girl who have been allowed to get away with anything. A female Joffrey with a manipulative streak.
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2019-01-14, 09:24 | Link #257 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Quote:
On other note I really love Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, where main character help slave escape, but feel guilty and thing of himself as bad person for "stealing someones property", which showing that treating slaves as property is indeed not necessarily sign of being evil but rather matter of cultural standards. I am reading manga too (tried novel, but it was terrible) and majority critics here on this board are legit.
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2019-01-14, 09:28 | Link #258 | |
Detective
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 36
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Quote:
The prospect of freedom was also used as an incentive for the slaves to work their peculium properly.
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2019-01-14, 09:45 | Link #259 | |
a random Indonesian otaku
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Xanadu
Age: 32
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Quote:
He literally... didn't trust anyone beside himself in order to survive the wave and go home so it's hard to blame him if he created slaves army as his meat shield in order for his survival... He doesn't trust anyone from that world... and doesn't care if it is destroyed or not.. he just want to stay alive and go home I don't know about people's morality.. but if I'm in his place, I'll do exactly like Naofumi did.. |
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2019-01-14, 10:01 | Link #260 |
Anime Watcher
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elsewhere
Age: 35
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In one sense yes, in another no. Any country that uses slaves labor as a driving force is economically doomed in the long run. Short term, yes it would appear to bolster the slave economy, but in the long run you would actually be exasperating the long term problems. Slavery fell out of practice not just because people started realizing it it was immoral, but also because business owners started to realize it was better for the economy to have a paid working force rather than slave force.
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isekai, traumatized protagonist |
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