[Manga] Naruto Final Chapter

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Akashin

But I was under the impression that we were talking about female characters that are also objectively strong and, for all her lack of showing it, she is.

I think they were talking about female characters who are actually strong, as in, characters who get results and wins fights on their own. But as far as I can tell, there aren't female characters like that in Naruto.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think they were talking about female characters who are actually strong, as in, characters who get results and wins fight on their on. But as far as I can tell, there aren't female characters like that in Naruto.

See my edit. If the subject is female characters whose results back up their skills, than I agree that it would be nice to finally see that.

[Kazu-kun]

Well, since Himawari and Sarada are Naruto and Sasuke's offspring, they should be able to hold their own at the very least. Although, this is Kishimoto we're talking about so you never know.

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by ranchan13

What about Tsunade?
Kabuto would have beaten her if not for Naruto
She was only able to beat Orochimaru with the help of Jiraiya
Pein made her seem like any Konoha Genin (even Konohamaru beat one of the paths of Pein, seriously? Konohamaru?)
And the only contribution she had against Madara, arguably, is keeping the other 4 Kage alive long enough for Orochimaru to heal them.

Seems par for the course for female characters in Naruto

Really? Pain made EVERYONE in konoha look like a "genin" there's no shame in losing against him. Konohamaru took down the weakest pain by suprise. Even Jiraiya lost against pain... Wait even kakashi wait even Naruto lost so moot point there. I don't know if you read the manga but Tsunade was the one of the only people to actually land a hit on Madara which is no small feat heck she even broke a half susanoo. I'm sure without Tsunade the five kages wouldve died really stop underatting her...

Originally Posted by Akashin

Kabuto overcame her using her hemophilia against her, if I'm not mistaken; I'm not sure what her strength or lack thereof has to do with anything there.

Likewise, I'm not sure why needing help to defeat Orochimaru is a point against her. Was Naruto weak during the Pain invasion because he would have lost to Pain without foreknowledge of Pain's abilities (and considerable interference from Kurama, for that matter)?

She doesn't have the greatest track record, no doubt about that, but I don't see how that makes her weak in a general sense.

Basically this.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

A character who is supposed to be strong but never quite manage to win a fight on their own, is not really strong. Their supposed strength is just lip-service.

I don't know but I don't remember a a fight that Naruto won by himself maybe you have a skewed sense of strength but I remember Tsunade holding her own amongst the five kage. Most characters in Narutoverse don't win fights on their own. Especially against these S rank villains.

[sayde]

This all kind of makes me hope that Kishimoto makes Himawari inherit some of Neji's attributes. She could be the incredibly OP gifted/talented genius that learns most things pretty quickly--All while hiding it all under her cute and childish demeanor (kicking ass behind everyone's backs). She'll always be genuinely impressed by whatever her older brother Bolt and female role model Sarada does. Meanwhile Bolt might catch the occasional glimpse of just how talented Himawari is, but he wouldn't get bitter over it. He might put on the typical exaggerated floored facial expression when he catches her do something amazing, but it wouldn't have any long lasting adverse reactions on him though. Instead, he'd use it as motivation to keep working hard to stay ahead of his little sister so he could continue to be the one to keep impressing her and protecting her.

Granted, I know this may seem like a pretty comical setup but since this spin off appears like it might be more lighthearted than serious, I think the Cute Bruiser trope could work. But above all else, I just want the two siblings to get along. Comical spats are okay, but nothing serious between the two I hope.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

Really? Pain made EVERYONE in konoha look like a "genin" there's no shame in losing against him. Konohamaru took down the weakest pain by suprise. Even Jiraiya lost against pain... Wait even kakashi wait even Naruto lost so moot point there.

most everyone lost, but they had varying levels of success. it's only a moot point if you have a closed mind like yours seems to be about this topic.

I don't know but I don't remember a a fight that Naruto won by himself maybe you have a skewed sense of strength but I remember Tsunade holding her own amongst the five kage. Most characters in Narutoverse don't win fights on their own. Especially against these S rank villains.

you have a skewed sense in the opposite direction. it's true that most fights involve others' help to some degree, but for all intents and purposes naruto single-handledly beat kiba, neji, gaara, kabuto, everyone just watched as he beat kakuzu's 2 remaining hearts, he did beat pain by himself, the 3rd raikage, and of course he just beat sasuke by himself who was the other most powerful character in the world

[Crimrui]

Oh boy, was in highschool when I started and now I'm almost-should be a family man when it ended. Feels kinda strange as Naruto became someting of an aobligatory whenever you woudl visit some anime forum. I lot of things I didn't like, the main three cahracters specificly, and the last war arc but it was a well-thought out manga in the end.

So he will expand the universe more I guess?

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

he did beat pain by himself

Err... no. Naruto did not beat Pain by himself.

First of all, he had help from those two frogs. Tsunade's snail-thingy provides Naruto intel about Pain. Pain could not use his Shinra Tensei for a while cuz' he used a great deal of his power on the village. As soon as he got his powers back he pinned Naruto down and if Hinata didn't intervene it would have been over for him. Then Naruto transformed and Pain still captured him with Chibaku Tensei. Then plot power to be suddenly happened so that some ass pull jutsu from Minato could restore Naruto, healing him completely and restoring all of his chakra while Pain was still tired. So yeah, if you can say that Naruto won without any help then that's just turning the blind eye to the facts.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Crimrui

Err... no. Naruto did not beat Pain by himself.

First of all, he had help from those two frogs. Tsunade's snail-thingy provides Naruto intel about Pain. Pain could not use his Shinra Tensei for a while cuz' he used a great deal of his power on the village. As soon as he got his powers back he pinned Naruto down and if Hinata didn't intervene it would have been over for him. Then Naruto transformed and Pain still captured him with Chibaku Tensei. Then plot power to be suddenly happened so that some ass pull jutsu from Minato could restore Naruto, healing him completely and restoring all of his chakra while Pain was still tired. So yeah, if you can say that Naruto won without any help then that's just turning the blind eye to the facts.

that is such an old argument. you forgot to mention that naruto was breathing air so basically the air helped him win the fight as well... oh and the ground he was standing on...

pain wasn't exactly on his own either. he used a bunch of insanely powerful summonings and let's not forget 6 extra bodies and madara's eyes. but these are all just tools. the bottom line is that naruto beat pain with 2 things: physical force and TnJ. all of which he did on his own (summonings count as part of a ninja's arsenal as does intel)

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

most everyone lost, but they had varying levels of success. it's only a moot point if you have a closed mind like yours seems to be about this topic.

you have a skewed sense in the opposite direction. it's true that most fights involve others' help to some degree, but for all intents and purposes naruto single-handledly beat kiba, neji, gaara, kabuto, everyone just watched as he beat kakuzu's 2 remaining hearts, he did beat pain by himself, the 3rd raikage, and of course he just beat sasuke by himself who was the other most powerful character in the world

Not really if its by degrees of success Tsunade is the second most accomplished person in the pain arc. She protected the entire village from the shinra tensei which she also survived. Remebering that Tsunade never fought Pain head on even if she did and lost that wouldn't be a bad thing remember Jiraiya lost without even facing all the pains. So its still a moot point.... Naruto didn't beat Pain by himself by any strecth of the imagination he was saved twice in that fight. Deva path had him beat... he was practically pinned to the ground until Hinata saved him and he himself had already given up until Minatos ghost/chakra self saved him from the kyuubi taking over. Naruto lost against Deva path, Pain basically fought the kyuubi.....Naruto fought a weaked Kakuza and Kakashi finished him off so he didn't beat him alone. And well Kiba sucks...I'll give you the fight aginst Gaara more or less and the fight against the 3rd Raikage where Naruto won by himself. Naruto didn't beat Sasuke as far as I'm concerned that was a stalemate it wanst like the first fight where Sasuke was the clear winner. The only reason Sasuke said he won was that he prevented him from achieving his goals as far the fight is concerned it was a draw. My point is still that Tsunade is a strong female character.

[HayashiTakara]

A tweet from the anime series director about the manga ending:

１５年続いた連載が終わった・・・１２年前の制作発表会でご一緒したのがつい先日のように感じます、８年ほ ど前に聞かされたエンド・・・少し微調節がされてますが・・・あんな前からの構想を見事形にして見せていた だきました。・・・・・・・・岸本先生１５年、本当にお疲れ様でした。

Hayato Date, the director of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden twitted that the ending the manga just got is the same ending that Kishimoto told him 8 YEARS AGO except some minor last minute changes !!! So Kishimoto planned the pairings ALL ALONG !!!

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

A tweet from the anime series director about the manga ending:

１５年続いた連載が終わった・・・１２年前の制作発表会でご一緒したのがつい先日のように感じます、８年ほ ど前に聞かされたエンド・・・少し微調節がされてますが・・・あんな前からの構想を見事形にして見せていた だきました。・・・・・・・・岸本先生１５年、本当にお疲れ様でした。

Hayato Date, the director of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden twitted that the ending the manga just got is the same ending that Kishimoto told him 8 YEARS AGO except some minor last minute changes !!! So Kishimoto planned the pairings ALL ALONG !!!

NaruSaku fans will likely try to take this as meaning that the pairings were the last minute changes

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

NaruSaku fans will likely try to take this as meaning that the pairings were the last minute changes

But of course they were. And Sarada was initially intended to be Karin's daughter before the change. It's the only situation that makes sense.

[aeriolewinters]

Ending #21 for Shippuden hints at what you say. It's clear that it has Hinata,Sakura and then Naruto and Sasuke dueling and the duel ends with a huge explosion.

They knew the ending, heck even the ones who do the Video games know of it.

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

A tweet from the anime series director about the manga ending:

１５年続いた連載が終わった・・・１２年前の制作発表会でご一緒したのがつい先日のように感じます、８年ほ ど前に聞かされたエンド・・・少し微調節がされてますが・・・あんな前からの構想を見事形にして見せていた だきました。・・・・・・・・岸本先生１５年、本当にお疲れ様でした。

Hayato Date, the director of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden twitted that the ending the manga just got is the same ending that Kishimoto told him 8 YEARS AGO except some minor last minute changes !!! So Kishimoto planned the pairings ALL ALONG !!!

No excuses now!!!I accept that he planned the couple 8 years now if he said he planned the plot and its overall outcome 8 years ago I wouldve laughed so hard

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

No excuses now!!!I accept that he planned the couple 8 years now if he said he planned the plot and its overall outcome 8 years ago I wouldve laughed so hard

I do believe he had the ending planned out, but what happened inbetween, then and the end, that's another story

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

No excuses now!!!I accept that he planned the couple 8 years now if he said he planned the plot and its overall outcome 8 years ago I wouldve laughed so hard

If I had to guess I'd say that things like Kaguya (and maybe everybody being trapped in the IT) weren't part of the plan 8 years ago, and parts of 699 that account for them are among (or perhaps are) the minor changes.

The ending in and of itself being planned so far in advance isn't hard to buy; it's a rather general ending.

[Shinagami]

I liked the ending just felt he played it a little safe for my liking. Honestly even if he did plan it 8 years ago I wouldve liked more deaths to maintain some seriousness the series had...
Random thought:
(Irrelevent at the moment but I thought Suigetsu had an awesome power that wasn't full explored couldve been uselful in the war too bad it didn't happen)

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

I liked the ending just felt he played it a little safe for my liking. Honestly even if he did plan it 8 years ago I wouldve liked more deaths to maintain some seriousness the series had...

Well, that's a major problem the war had in general; that's not really a problem of the ending so much as everything building up to it.

Unless you're advocating a handful of people not making it out of IT or dying before the epilogue and spontaneously adding to the death toll at the end, which would serve no purpose beyond getting to say, "lol, see? People did die."

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by Akashin

Well, that's a major problem the war had in general; that's not really a problem of the ending so much as everything building up to it.

Unless you're advocating a handful of people not making it out of IT or dying before the epilogue and spontaneously adding to the death toll at the end, which would serve no purpose beyond getting to say, "lol, see? People did die."

True but now when we look at the overall series and see that the final big bad villains didn't kill any major characters.
Obito: countless fodder and neji(whom I forget existed up until that point)
Madara: showing off while killing countless fodder
Kaguya: no one(Obito doesn't count he was already dying)
Wouldve been great to see someone like Kakashi die

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

True but now when we look at the overall series and see that the final big bad villains didn't kill any major characters.
Obito: countless fodder and neji(whom I forget existed up until that point)
Madara: showing off while killing countless fodder
Kaguya: no one(Obito doesn't count he was already dying)
Wouldve been great to see someone like Kakashi die

THIS...

At least pain KILLED chars with names (he ressurected them later, but he still managed to kill them ONCE )

And oro killed the 3 hokage, this is also more than our "big bad villians" ever accomplished -_-