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[LoveYouSaber]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

The schools run by the UN... I wonder how/what they teach there... For the sake of the peace of Gaza, I really hope they don't just use a standard western curiculum, or even worse, use teachers from Gaza. They need teachers that the children look up to and are taught to make rational judgement that are not controlled by "mad believes" (no matter if religious, cultural, iseali or muslim), but by logic and self-preservation. It is also necessary to push individuality in the schools, because the best way to fight the "soldier" mindset, is to weaken the hive-mind-like mindset.

Also they need better security and make sure to throw trouble makers and people who try to recruit soldiers, no matter from which side, out of there. If it was done like that.

But I guess that would be a non-existent utopia.

Sadly I think, for a children living in Gaza, it is now actually more rationally and self-preserving to go join Hamas... if you're bombed both when shooting or not shooting rockets, it's better to be bombed while fighting back (and perhaps with the extra protection of civilian shields...). Plus I believe you get food and shelter and comrades.

Though just to be clear, I by no means condone the above act, but I frequently read that people joining terrorist organisations aren't necessarily doing it out of fanaticism. Sometimes it's actually a rational decision because the environment made it so...

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by LoveYouSaber

Sadly I think, for a children living in Gaza, it is now actually more rationally and self-preserving to go join Hamas... if you're bombed both when shooting or not shooting rockets, it's better to be bombed while fighting back (and perhaps with the extra protection of civilian shields...). Plus I believe you get food and shelter and comrades.

Though just to be clear, I by no means condone the above act, but I frequently read that people joining terrorist organisations aren't necessarily doing it out of fanaticism. Sometimes it's actually a rational decision because the environment made it so...

Basically: Casual warfare is not effective enough, so start using terrorism -> enemy retaliates -> causes more terrorist to join, then at some point they do a big attack -> enemy retaliates -> causes more terrorist to join, then at some point they do a big attack -> enemy retaliates -> causes more terrorist to join, then at some point they do a big attack, etc...

A devious cycle indeed. And to be honest it will probably not end until one side wins completely, or a new middle eastern version of the Iron Curtain or a new middle eastern version of the Great Chinese Wall is built up.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Basically: Casual warfare is not effective enough, so start using terrorism -> enemy retaliates -> causes more terrorist to join, then at some point they do a big attack -> enemy retaliates -> causes more terrorist to join, then at some point they do a big attack -> enemy retaliates -> causes more terrorist to join, then at some point they do a big attack, etc...

A devious cycle indeed. And to be honest it will probably not end until one side wins completely, or a new middle eastern version of the Iron Curtain or a new middle eastern version of the Great Chinese Wall is built up.

The question here is: would one side allow the other to construct such a thing or would, say, Israel kill any Hamas members that tried to construct a wall/curtain?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Libros

The question here is: would one side allow the other to construct such a thing or would, say, Israel kill any Hamas members that tried to construct a wall/curtain?

They already walled the shit out of the non-Israeli settlements. That is why Hamas is building tunnels.

[AnimeFan188]

Obama says 'authorized' targeted US strikes on Iraq:

"President Barack Obama said he had authorized US forces to conduct air strikes
against Sunni extremist militants in Iraq if they are needed to prevent a
massacre of civilians."

See:

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-aut...014137305.html


================================================== ==============


US planes drop aid to harried Iraqi minority group:

"US military planes returned to the skies over northern Iraq on Thursday to
deliver food and water to thousands of civilian refugees fleeing an onslaught
by Sunni extremist militants."

See:

http://news.yahoo.com/jihadist-offen...084039459.html


================================================== ==============


Kurds In Last Ditch Stand to Save Capital -- Call in the Drones?:

"Some random bits on ISIS and Iraq:"

See:

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/...he-drones.html

[Wigwams]

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

Just to prove that Israel retaliation is useless as Hamas personnel was not even in the site when the rocket being launched

[GreyZone]

The comments on that video... a mixture of trolls, fanatics, idiots and fanatical idiots.

[Sugetsu]

I have been looking into this ISIS group and their propaganda videos, and I found one. If you want to see what these people stand for click on the spoiler tag. Warning! this video is extremely graphic, view at your own risk!

Spoiler:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17e_1...comment_page=2

This is probably the first and only time I will agree with conservatives when they claim that the USA should have never pulled out of Iraq. Invading that country was akin to stabbing oneself in a major artery; actually pulling out the knife can do more harm than good. Iraq seems lost, as lost as Afghanistan if not more at this point.

These people love killing, they revel in violence. Their propaganda video is aimed at recruiting more fighters to their cause, I believe that the people who would find this propaganda attractive are the little children in Gaza and other places, who grow watching all that they love turn to ashes by western powers. Does anyone understand Arabic? What are they saying in it?

A nightmare scenario would be if Russia dices to support ISIS... that is of course highly unlikely, but if it were to happen we would be closer to WW3 than ever before.

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

This is probably the first and only time I will agree with conservatives when they claim that the USA should have never pulled out of Iraq.

Yeah, well, those Conservatives can shut up. We should have never have invaded Iraq in the first place.

The war on terrorism has made terrorism worse. It has only (after invading countries, bringing war to said countries, and through the casualties on this all-out war against terrorism) made many Muslim men want to take up the cause for this twisted Jihad. I believe the Islamic State exists as a result of decisions and actions by the Bush Administration.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

The war on terrorism has made terrorism worse. It has only (after invading countries, bringing war to said countries, and through the casualties on this all-out war against terrorism) made many Muslim men want to take up the cause for this twisted Jihad. I believe the Islamic State exists as a result of decisions and actions by the Bush Administration.

Eh, you can take this goes all the way through to the Soviet-Afghan war if you want for this particular organization's origin. Ultimately, as I've noted in a separate thread, the fundamental problem at the core has always been how the countries were arbitrarily created by the Europeans after the fall of the Ottomans.

It's a lot easier for extremists to recruit and continue to carry out attacks against their own civilian populations when said civilians view each other as different sects first, rather than fellow countrymen.

ISIS did not truly take off until Syria, and frankly, if your point was that the casualties caused by the US is what led to people wanting to join the jihad for revenge - why are they joining groups that are focused on killing their own people instead?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Eh, you can take this goes all the way through to the Soviet-Afghan war if you want for this particular organization's origin. Ultimately, as I've noted in a separate thread, the fundamental problem at the core has always been how the countries were arbitrarily created by the Europeans after the fall of the Ottomans.

It's a lot easier for extremists to recruit and continue to carry out attacks against their own civilian populations when said civilians view each other as different sects first, rather than fellow countrymen.

ISIS did not truly take off until Syria, and frankly, if your point was that the casualties caused by the US is what led to people wanting to join the jihad for revenge - why are they joining groups that are focused on killing their own people instead?

That is because hatred and anger are easy to manipulate. That is what religious fundamentalism feeds on.

Even if it is to is a chance to kill an American, they would do it.

[Sugetsu]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

Yeah, well, those Conservatives can shut up. We should have never have invaded Iraq in the first place.

The war on terrorism has made terrorism worse. It has only (after invading countries, bringing war to said countries, and through the casualties on this all-out war against terrorism) made many Muslim men want to take up the cause for this twisted Jihad. I believe the Islamic State exists as a result of decisions and actions by the Bush Administration.

If we spent our time making connections and building bridges between cultures, while understanding that we are only as strong as our weakest link, we wouldn't have to keep looking over our shoulders in fear of a possible attack. The US will always keep making new enemies so long as we continue down this path. If we could only understand that those at the bottom also have natural right to be allowed to live with dignity, I am not speaking of owning a car, a house and a cell phone, contrary to western thought many people need just the basic material wealth to be comfortable.

All wars no matter how small will always create chronic problems. We are still dealing with the effects of WW 2 through Israel and Palestine, which could very likely lead us into WW 3 just as the aftermath of WW 1 eventually led into the next war.

The big problem is that everyone only thinks of himself through the narrow scope of the ego without realizing that everything is connected, actions have consequences, and will eventually come back to bite him in the ass. This short sighted thinking, is generally common in most of the conservative people in the US, they are highly selfish and believe that direct actions will yield the best results but tend to completely ignore branching consequences of such acts.

Edit: I am sure that if a conservative were to read my post he would think to himself "Blah blah blah What is this hippie BS kumbaya ideological piece of crap!"

[monster]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

That is because hatred and anger are easy to manipulate. That is what religious fundamentalism feeds on.

That depends on the actual fundamentals of the religion.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by monster

That depends on the actual fundamentals of the religion.

Sorry, I meant extremism. The lines blurred too much nowadays.

[monster]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Sorry, I meant extremism. The lines blurred too much nowadays.

That's better, but not by much in terms of accuracy.

For example, a Christian could be extreme or radical enough (compared to the norm, even to other Christians) to actually turn the other cheek, etc. On the other hand, a Muslim fasting in the month of Ramadan or praying 5 times a day may be considered extreme to those who don't share their belief but may not be considered extreme to other Muslims.

I sympathize with your effort, but that's generally the problem with generalizing over such a vast range of belief systems and practices.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by monster

That's better, but not by much in terms of accuracy.

For example, a Christian could be extreme or radical enough (compared to the norm, even to other Christians) to actually turn the other cheek, etc. On the other hand, a Muslim fasting in the month of Ramadan or praying 5 times a day may be considered extreme to those who don't share their belief but may not be considered extreme to other Muslims.

I sympathize with your effort, but that's generally the problem with generalizing over such a vast range of belief systems and practices.

That is what Muslims actually do. In fact Muslims need only to pray at dawn and dusk, and fasting during Ramadan IS an actual practice of Muslims worldwide.

Facts aside, an extremist is someone who interprets his belief in an extreme way, often in the Messiah complex style. Opponents are not to be reasoned with, but defeated and destroyed. A "Christian" extremist would be active-preaching Jehovah Witnesses, who believe that their religion is true and all others are fake, then take active measures to implement their religion upon others. Their Muslim counterpart would be Boko Haram, who "preach" with assault rifles rather than their mouths.

That is about it.

[erneiz_hyde]

5 times a day is correct btw, not just at dawn and dusk. (and that's just the barest minimum)

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

5 times a day is correct btw, not just at dawn and dusk. (and that's just the barest minimum)

That is why I say "only need to".

[monster]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

That is what Muslims actually do. In fact Muslims need only to pray at dawn and dusk, and fasting during Ramadan IS an actual practice of Muslims worldwide.

Oh, I know that it is practiced by many Muslims, but extremism is about being at the edge of some spectrum, which is usually subjectively defined. I'm just pointing out that some people could think that some religious practice or belief is extreme without there actually being hatred or anger involved on the part of the people who follow such beliefs or practices.

believe that their religion is true and all others are fake, then take active measures to implement their religion upon others.

The problem with that definition is that taking active measures does not necessarily mean taking violent actions nor is it necessarily feeding on hatred or anger. That is why the fundamentals are actually important in both a worldview/belief system as well as in other aspects of human life.