Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[egotist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

morbo said that she WAS a crazy xenophobic bitch before getting some development in the other way
and its TRUE
she really WAS the sort of character who everyone hates before ep 19
and for a good set of reasons which i wont list here becouse i dont want to spread hate
all i'm going to say is that her reaction to suzaku and kallen in turn 9 was enough of a clue that this is a person who you wouldnt want as a friend

I was surprised Kallen was so gentle towards her btw. It showed, she did held Student Council close to her heart still, while Nina's reaction towards Zero at this episode, was of a lunatic person. I was also a bit irked with Suzaku thinking that this was a tragedy caused by Zero. Granted, he did now know about the origins of the accident that caused Euphie to lose her life, but Nina having an unhealthy obsession with Euphie and getting into the Britannia science laboratory team, to invent something that would cause a massacre, it is definitely not his fault. Far from it. That moment overall, was a bit weird, now that i think about it. xD

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

I just loved that)))))) You're awesome, have I told you?) And now that I have a chance I should also say I loved the "let's play the blame game" comment a couple of pages before)
You and bladeofdarkness ended the discussion for me before I even got a chance to say something)))))

Aw, thank you! xD
You're awesome, too (I absolutely love discussing things and characters with you). *-*


Anyway, it's not that Nina was a saint, but if someone new comes into a forum and says they like a character, it's just not nice to call said character names. That's all I'm saying. And I know it wasn't a horrible thing to do, but I don't think I tried to fleya anyone for it. xD
Hm... I also agree her friends rather liked Nina. They were also quite protective of her - just look at Kallen and Milly in R2, episode... uhm... 9? Rivalz seemed to absolutely adore all his friends anyway, Lelouch appeared a bit fond of Nina, too in the second season (you could argue it was just guilt and the fact she helped him, though), and Shirley is so sweet that she definitely cared for her.
Also, I thought Nina was quite interesting from the start. And for me, that's all it takes to like a character.

[morbosfist]

Suzaku just likes to blame Zero. Easy target. It's not Zero's fault Nina's a crazy bitch at the time, though, just Zero's fault for indirectly setting her off by killing Euphemia.

[Eleonore Magilinon]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and VERY MUCH not a likable one until VERY late in the show

True, I admit my opinion was around absolute same, but still, after this very late moment I accepted her and I respect her for at least being able to see what she has gone, take responsibility (even if it's just her own conscience) and after that being able to do the most logical thing and overcome her raw hatred for Zero to do what needed to be done. I even say that she acted way better than Suzaku while (ok, in my personal opinion, no returning to prev. pages of discussion) they had around the same share of guilt.

And in case you were indeed asking about ")" mark, consider it smiles or just good intentions)

[egotist]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Aw, thank you! xD
You're awesome, too (I absolutely love discussing things and characters with you). *-*


Anyway, it's not that Nina was a saint, but if someone new comes into a forum and says they like a character, it's just not nice to call said character names. That's all I'm saying. And I know it wasn't a horrible thing to do, but I don't think I tried to fleya anyone for it. xD
Hm... I also agree her friends rather liked Nina. They were also quite protective of her - just look at Kallen and Milly in R2, episode... uhm... 9? Rivalz seemed to absolutely adore all his friends anyway, Lelouch appeared a bit fond of Nina, too in the second season (you could argue it was just guilt and the fact she helped him, though), and Shirley is so sweet that she definitely cared for her.
Also, I thought Nina was quite interesting from the start. And for me, that's all it takes to like a character.

He just expressed his opinion, and coming from the series, it is not actually that far from the truth, you ask me.
As for Nina, she was a part of the Student Council, something that was probably the best memory of Milly/Kallen/Rivalz's while in school, and they wanted to protect that memory. And well, in the end you love your friends with their good and bad traits.

-morbosfist He does blame Zero, for a lot of things and according to what he knows at the moments he does this, i cannot blame him. But for the particular moment, he was totally off.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

True, I admit my opinion was around absolute same, but still, after this very late moment I accepted her and I respect her for at least being able to see what she has gone, take responsibility (even if it's just her own conscience) and after that being able to do the most logical thing and overcome her raw hatred for Zero to do what needed to be done. I even say that she acted way better than Suzaku while (ok, in my personal opinion, no returning to prev. pages of discussion) they had around the same share of guilt.

I agree with that - it was quite awesome what Nina did later on.
Only that I'm not so sure about the guilt thing. But that's just something I rarely think about, so, not surprising. xD

[bladeofdarkness]

ok)
and the difference between her and suzaku is simple
SHE got bitchslapped into seeing the results of her action
which turned her from a crazy bitch into a remorseful atoner
SUZAKU started OUT as an atoner who believed that doing things the wrong way is not justified even if it gets results
so when THAT blew up in his face, he SNAPPED
and he continued BEING SNAPPED right up till the end of the show
suzaku of ep 20 is NOT suzaku of ep 18

[Eleonore Magilinon]

and the difference between her and suzaku is simple
SHE got bitchslapped into seeing the results of her action
which turned her from a crazy bitch into a remorseful atoner
SUZAKU started OUT as an atoner who believed that doing things the wrong way is not justified even if it gets results
so when THAT blew up in his face, he SNAPPED
and he continued BEING SNAPPED right up till the end of the show
suzaku of ep 20 is NOT suzaku of ep 18

Good point)
Although I think he knew what he was doing in ep.21 and till the end... But well, the question of sanity of the two after ep.21 is too dangerous of a topic.

[bladeofdarkness]

i'm not saying he was CRAZY
i'm saying that he underwent a mental breakdown that changed him completely
the suzaku of the last arc only LOOKS like the original suzaku

[Eleonore Magilinon]

i'm not saying he was CRAZY
i'm saying that he underwent a mental breakdown that changed him completely
the suzaku of the last arc only LOOKS like the original suzaku

Well, after mental breakdown people do tend to act strangely)))) The complete change of character made him look a bit out of it e.g. crazy for me.
But you're right))) Just that character swayed a lot even before that, so it's difficult to see when he snapped decisively...)))

And the way they with Lelouch were kinda syncrionized even when they snapped was something. *remembers the show Lelouch put, especially pinkish smoke*

[bladeofdarkness]

suzaku used to believe
1)achiving something right using the wrong means is wrong
2)suzaku used to care about lives of other people, trying to limit how many he killed
3)suzaku used to believe that change from within the system is the only real way
4)suzaku used to believe that the use of geass is a horrible thing
5)used to do what he believed was best for japan, which is why he wants to be KoO

then turn 22 comes along and
1)he and lelouch's entire PLAN revolves around the wrong means to achive the right goal
2)he butchers his former KoR allies without a second thought,spearing only gino with the invite to JOIN them, then takes kaguya hostage so lelouch can use her as a human shield
3)dont really need to say much
4)he stands around WATCHING while lelouch turns THOUSENDS of human beings into puppets without BLINKING (especially jarring, when you remember what kept him from drugging kallen)
5)he basiclly DROPS the very idea of everything he was working for all season, and CONQUERS japan all over again (both toudo and kallen, the only OOBK members who know him, call him out on that)

and when lelouch starts to have doubts about the plan becouse he just found out that his little sister is not only alive, but also his enemy
suzaku is the one who tells him to snap out of it becouse the plan is going to happen whether he likes it or not

clearly, THIS is not suzaku of ep 18

[egotist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

suzaku used to believe
1)achiving something right using the wrong means is wrong
2)suzaku used to care about lives of other people, trying to limit how many he killed
3)suzaku used to believe that change from within the system is the only real way
4)suzaku used to believe that the use of geass is a horrible thing
5)used to do what he believed was best for japan, which is why he wants to be KoO

then turn 22 comes along and
1)he and lelouch's entire PLAN revolves around the wrong means to achive the right goal
2)he butchers his former KoR allies without a second thought,spearing only gino with the invite to JOIN them, then takes kaguya hostage so lelouch can use her as a human shield
3)dont really need to say much
4)he stands around WATCHING while lelouch turns THOUSENDS of human beings into puppets without BLINKING (especially jarring, when you remember what kept him from drugging kallen)
5)he basiclly DROPS the very idea of everything he was working for all season, and CONQUERS japan all over again (both toudo and kallen, the only OOBK members who know him, call him out on that)

and when lelouch starts to have doubts about the plan becouse he just found out that his little sister is not only alive, but also his enemy
suzaku is the one who tells him to snap out of it becouse the plan is going to happen whether he likes it or not

clearly, THIS is not suzaku of ep 18

Unless Suzaku wanted deep down to be Zerozaku that bad, then the other alternative is some quick change of heart, that does not make much sense in terms of development. xD

[bladeofdarkness]

this is WAY beyond change of heart
this is full on character derailment (worst one in the show)
which can only REALLY be explained by his breakdown in ep 19

[Eleonore Magilinon]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

suzaku used to believe
1)achiving something right using the wrong means is wrong
2)suzaku used to care about lives of other people, trying to limit how many he killed
3)suzaku used to believe that change from within the system is the only real way
4)suzaku used to believe that the use of geass is a horrible thing
5)used to do what he believed was best for japan, which is why he wants to be KoO

then turn 22 comes along and
1)he and lelouch's entire PLAN revolves around the wrong means to achive the right goal
2)he butchers his former KoR allies without a second thought,spearing only gino with the invite to JOIN them, then takes kaguya hostage so lelouch can use her as a human shield
3)dont really need to say much
4)he stands around WATCHING while lelouch turns THOUSENDS of human beings into puppets without BLINKING (especially jarring, when you remember what kept him from drugging kallen)
5)he basiclly DROPS the very idea of everything he was working for all season, and CONQUERS japan all over again (both toudo and kallen, the only OOBK members who know him, call him out on that)

and when lelouch starts to have doubts about the plan becouse he just found out that his little sister is not only alive, but also his enemy
suzaku is the one who tells him to snap out of it becouse the plan is going to happen whether he likes it or not

clearly, THIS is not suzaku of ep 18

No protests and I did understand all this before you pointed it out. It's just that he started to contradict himself even before (just not as much). He also had a thing like honor (continuation of your #1), no wrong means. But using capture of Lelouch/Zero as a way to promote himself isn't honorable (although useful and well-done from less "strict" point of view on right and wrong, but from his point of view is would still be wrong, at least it wasn't something to feel proud about), using (yes, just using) Nunally as a way to check Lelouch was low (although quite brilliant otherwise, if not for Rolo Lelouch would most probably be caught), taking FLEIJA even without intent to use it was too much of a danger and contradicted his idea of trying to limit the number of deaths. He just decided not to think too much about that as long as he didn't intend to use it. But actually, he should have thought. He was already pretty much running from all the contradicitons in his own believes and actions. FLEIJA helped that tail catch him.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Eleonore Magilinon

And Levy, I'm not sure about Chiba, but I would love to discuss Cecile.
[cut for brevity, summarizing, how she looked in s1 VS the sometimes quite ruthless attitude she shows in R2]
So now I'm not sure about what to think about Cecile... What is your vision of her?

you're welcome! =)
Lloyd and Cécile were among my top favourites in S1 and characters I grew most attached to there, together with Ohgi, Karen and Lelouch. In R2 their role drastically dropped due to the fact that they were connected to an arc for Suzaku that was kind of dropped for completely, and they faded into the background.
My take on Cécile is kind of similar to yours, a very brilliant scientist that is too shy and insecure to dare flying, and that has found in Lloyd someone able to push her forward, and someone to take care of. They are a symbiotic unity - I was also persuaded she was in love with him, but it seems it's not the case... ^^;

She and Lloyd came to care for Suzaku also on a personal level and it shows also in the part about FREJA. Yes, she was pwning Gino at billiard just after a tragedy of such proprortion, but that might be seen as just 'playing cool', while from the dialogue, she's all smily and such but seemed nothing but happy with what Suzaku had done and was calling him up on that. Lloyd seemed even more displeased more than her, but we may guess she agrees with him; and they were also unhappy with the fact that Nina insisted on equiping the Lancelot with FREJA. Later on, they worried for Suzaku as he was about to be butchered by Karen - telling him to retreat, if I'm not wrong, while Nina was shouting him to fire the FREJA. So I guess their casual attitude was more of a mask - as we say here in my country " pulling a nice face in front of a wicked game": they are under Schneizel's command and, altought quite indipendent, they know well they can't mess with him. So they played along...
This is my reading of the whole situation, and I'm cursing heaven and hell and Sunrise that they did not show us more about how Suzaku convinced them to follow him and Lelouch into ZR, but putting all the pieces together, it seems taht Lloyd and Cécile chose the help them because of their personal attachment to Suzaku. We may go as far as to say they might have felt guilty toward him to have dragged him in this mess in first place, making him the pilot of Lancelot, but that's too much of a complicate argument that takes a lot of 'What if..'s... .. but this go back to the current argument of the thread that is 'Suzaku's character development in R2 is the Maya-pyramid kind of: we got some huge jumps from time to time instead of a real arc - and given that he is the co-protagonist, I feel he deserved more attention, but let's not start another useless complaint.

I largely digressed but, going back to Cécile herself, I think that she's a very intelligent, compassionate and perceptive woman, and that she became part of the ZR outer team mostly because she understood Suzaku and his NEED to be part of it (confirmed by the PD I'm going in denial about =P ); and also because as a scientist she has probably forecasted the danger that a Schneizel equipped with something like the FREJA and the floating system could become for the world (it's unclear how much she and Lloyd knew about the Damocles, but it seems they got only some evidence that there was something going on in Cambodia, but were left out of the project) and she felt called up on opposing him because she was one of those that helped him in developing some of those tecnologies.

The last episode montage is an effective reading-key for the majority of support-cast characters and there, Cécile speaks in defense of Nina to Rakshata, saying something like 'but she wanted a chance to fix the things she's done wrong' - and that might be something that should be seen as valid also for Cécile herself.
She's a bit airhead and crazy like that (otherwise, she won't be able to team with Lloyd without having a mental breakdown) but this only make her more interesting to me.


I'm a total sucker for the nostalgic vibe that surrounds the Four Holy Swords - all that 'fighting a battle lost already/samurai pride no matter what' theme that surrounds them get me so much. And I like how Nagisa is always bitchy, unsympathetic and grumpy! XD

[Eleonore Magilinon]

Originally Posted by Levy

My take on Cécile is kind of similar to yours, a very brilliant scientist that is too shy and insecure to dare flying, and that has found in Lloyd someone able to push her forward, and someone to take care of. They are a symbiotic unity - I was also persuaded she was in love with him, but it seems it's not the case... ^^;

And I still think she is, just I can't even imagine her showing it in any way. But I think she does understand Lloyd, and as my opinion is that he's a lot better than he tries to look like, and unlike her he's able to do anything he wants without fear of the consequences (like calling His Majesty "Emp") she surely greatly admires him, and... well, he's just charming... and they know each other from university days...
Yep, but I still think Lloyd is way too lucky to have somebody like Cécile by his side, to take care of everything for him (ok, rest for cooking), put up with all of his teasing... I wonder if Cécile also considers her responsibility to stay with Lloyd, her consience won't forgive her if she leaves him on his own... Can you imagine Lloyd on his own? Everything messy as it can be, as usual servants won't be able to put scientific research in order and any other assistant scientist would leave in countable number of days...
On the other hand, as Cécile finds it easier to just follow somebody rather than think for herself all the time, she knew she should at least choose somebody with a good heart deep inside. And I believe she made a right choice (since he might have been around the only person she knew well enough, considering how shy she is and was back in her student days)... Yep, symbiotic unity)
And it makes me wonder about their student days (not counting how much I want to see the story about "pudding earl", there has to be an OVA for that)...

Originally Posted by Levy

She and Lloyd came to care for Suzaku also on a personal level and it shows also in the part about FREJA. Yes, she was pwning Gino at billiard just after a tragedy of such proprortion, but that might be seen as just 'playing cool', while from the dialogue, she's all smily and such but seemed nothing but happy with what Suzaku had done and was calling him up on that. Lloyd seemed even more displeased more than her, but we may guess she agrees with him; and they were also unhappy with the fact that Nina insisted on equiping the Lancelot with FREJA. Later on, they worried for Suzaku as he was about to be butchered by Karen - telling him to retreat, if I'm not wrong, while Nina was shouting him to fire the FREJA. So I guess their casual attitude was more of a mask - as we say here in my country " pulling a nice face in front of a wicked game": they are under Schneizel's command and, altought quite indipendent, they know well they can't mess with him. So they played along...

Yes, I was worried if they cared about Suzaku in the first season (at least in Lloyd's case), but R2 put everything in place. The accident with FLEIJA clearly showed they did care, and I think the only reason (well, I think they could find escape route from the order) they let Suzaku on Lancelot out in the battle was because they didn't expect Kallen's escape on Gurren. And the time he hesitated to retreat when they clearly shouted for him to do so was around the only time I saw Lloyd being angry (and not "carefree" at all) and Cécile not choosing her words carefully.
And I find your explanation great, at least way better then just blaming it on authors. Somehow it's cute how the way Cécile chose to hide it reminds us of Lloyd (and I think he just use this trick on regular basis).

Also about Lloyd, I wonder if there was a story behind his words to Nina, when he said that she has to choose between keeping her heart or sacrificing it to science and then answered that he was "rotten from the beginning".
I'm starting to think that sometimes the more carefree he looks the more inportant it is to him inside... Anyway it's sad to see somebody admitting he gave up on his heart a long time ago.
Maybe there already was something in his (and Cécile's) past that made the impact of FLEIJA different (from others) for them. For example, Cécile's carefree attitude (that was absolutely unlike her) could be trying to run away from current reality, was it the consequencies of current FLEIJA or also more than that.
But I admit your version is far more probable than my ungrounded assumptions)

Originally Posted by Levy

This is my reading of the whole situation, and I'm cursing heaven and hell and Sunrise that they did not show us more about how Suzaku convinced them to follow him and Lelouch into ZR, but putting all the pieces together, it seems taht Lloyd and Cécile chose the help them because of their personal attachment to Suzaku. We may go as far as to say they might have felt guilty toward him to have dragged him in this mess in first place, making him the pilot of Lancelot, but that's too much of a complicate argument that takes a lot of 'What if..'s... .. but this go back to the current argument of the thread that is 'Suzaku's character development in R2 is the Maya-pyramid kind of: we got some huge jumps from time to time instead of a real arc - and given that he is the co-protagonist, I feel he deserved more attention, but let's not start another useless complaint.
I largely digressed but, going back to Cécile herself, I think that she's a very intelligent, compassionate and perceptive woman, and that she became part of the ZR outer team mostly because she understood Suzaku and his NEED to be part of it (confirmed by the PD I'm going in denial about =P ); and also because as a scientist she has probably forecasted the danger that a Schneizel equipped with something like the FREJA and the floating system could become for the world (it's unclear how much she and Lloyd knew about the Damocles, but it seems they got only some evidence that there was something going on in Cambodia, but were left out of the project) and she felt called up on opposing him because she was one of those that helped him in developing some of those tecnologies.

I agree it was mostly because of personal attachment but also I see it like they heard the plan from Lelouch and Suzaku and it was easy to see they're serious and decided on it and Lloyd and Cécile could see they were needed in his plan and I think it was respect for the two of them, Lelouch and Suzaku, and their willingness to pay such a high personal price that made Lloyd and Cécile help them. And also I agree that they might have felt they're also at fault (summing everything together, their choice of Suzaku as a pilot, helping Shneizel etc., plus about Damocles, they knew there's more than one FLEIJA and that was enough) and they're the kind of smart/wise people who, I think, always knew they had to take responsibility one day and just felt it was the right time when presented with ZR plan. And I feel it was absolutely their own choice and I'm proud of them for making it.

Originally Posted by Levy

The last episode montage is an effective reading-key for the majority of support-cast characters and there, Cécile speaks in defense of Nina to Rakshata, saying something like 'but she wanted a chance to fix the things she's done wrong' - and that might be something that should be seen as valid also for Cécile herself.
She's a bit airhead and crazy like that (otherwise, she won't be able to team with Lloyd without having a mental breakdown) but this only make her more interesting to me.

Totally agree) Although she's more like a saint for being able to stand Lloyd)))

I'm a total sucker for the nostalgic vibe that surrounds the Four Holy Swords - all that 'fighting a battle lost already/samurai pride no matter what' theme that surrounds them get me so much. And I like how Nagisa is always bitchy, unsympathetic and grumpy! XD

*_*) I can understand that, and I do like Todou's samurai ways and how he said that killing somebody (in that case it was Suzaku) becuase he's inconvinient isn't the way japanese would support, (and I do like Chiba), but I don't think that "fighting an already lost battle" is "looking into the future". And well, being a supporter of Euphie's views all the way...

[bladeofdarkness]

on to another matter

is it possible that the CG world would be heading into an energy crisis in the near future ?
the reason why japan was conquered was mostly becouse it contains nearly 80% of the worlds sakuradite supply
and mount fuji specificlly was named as containing the buried cursed tresure that lead to the war
in other words, the sakuradite mines under it are HUGE possibly containing MOST if not all of japan's potential sakuradite supply (since the houses of kyoto were mostly based there)
when lelouch set off mount fuji, he did so by triggering an explosion of the sakuradite mines under the mountain
which destroyed much if not ALL of the sakuradite stashed under mount fuji

considering that the CG world is powered in great part by sakuradite based tech
and not only KMF's, when lelouch triggered the gefun disterbers most of tokyo shut down
which means that sakuradite is used in MANY things
could lelouch's actions have led to a future energy crisis ?

[Levy]

Karen kinda gives you and answer in the epilogue, blade, a lot of the money invested in war are now focused on more social-usefull research. Is it possible indeed that Japan is gonna suffer a lot because of Mt-Fuji blowing, but if you think that the number of operating KMF is going to drop drasticallyin the near future, a redistribution of the energie sources might be enough, and maybe even in Japan there's enough sakuradite left for civil use =)
This, or you the world heads to Gundam00 scenario, and Aeolia Schoenberg is just BaldySuzaku went nuts at the failure of ZR, and Ribbons is Lelouch/CC tubechild! =P

@Eleonore: I'll aswer you too ASAP, you did raise some interesting points about this secondary characters we don't happen to discuss very often, so I don't want to drop the chance... =))

EDIT: DONE! oh, the tl;dr-ness! XDDD
The PD 8 kinda denies any Cécile -> Lloyd since it give you a certain idea (debatable, some thinks it's more familiar affection, but ewh, whatever..) of Cécile-> Suzaku, that is WTF-ery to me. I like our version better XD

Yes I see them as a team that is very effective because they complement each other really well. Lloyd puts madness, daring and his social position, Cécile takes care of the more practically aspects and develops her projects too. She seems to need to live in his shadow to be okay, and it could easily be a matter of personality and self-confidence. I'd be happy to have anything more about them, anything!

Somehow it's cute how the way Cécile chose to hide it reminds us of Lloyd (and I think he just use this trick on regular basis).

yes, that's absolutely true! As opposite as they may seem, you got this 'two of a kind' moments from them that are just.. great (for their fans at least =) <3 )

I think it was respect for the two of them, Lelouch and Suzaku, and their willingness to pay such a high personal price that made Lloyd and Cécile help them. And also I agree that they might have felt they're also at fault (summing everything together, their choice of Suzaku as a pilot, helping Shneizel etc., plus about Damocles, they knew there's more than one FLEIJA and that was enough) and they're the kind of smart/wise people who, I think, always knew they had to take responsibility one day and just felt it was the right time when presented with ZR plan. And I feel it was absolutely their own choice and I'm proud of them for making it.

You do have a point in underlining that they show a great respect and understanding not only toward Suzaku but also toward Lelouch. They probably understood how willingfully the boys were going down a dead-end track, and accepted it.
Only thing I'm not sure about is if they know the whole plan, or just the part they need to know ("free the hostage and pretend I have forced you to help me while I go off facing Schneizel").
I wonder if they know that Suzaku is Zero now or if they have been fooled into believing that Suzaku really was dead. This is something I would like to have official confirmations about, because in the anime it is left quite unclear.

*_*) I can understand that, and I do like Todou's samurai ways and how he said that killing somebody (in that case it was Suzaku) becuase he's inconvinient isn't the way japanese would support, (and I do like Chiba), but I don't think that "fighting an already lost battle" is "looking into the future". And well, being a supporter of Euphie's views all the way...

Yes, true, but that's the trait I like the most about them, their sort of inhability to evolve. I find it endearing, nostalgic, and fascinating... I'm not saying they are doing the right thing, kinda the opposite, but this nostalgic-defeat-motif gets me everytime! XD;
(Euphie FTW! XD)

[Eleonore Magilinon]

Originally Posted by Levy

Karen kinda gives you and answer in the epilogue, blade, a lot of the money invested in war are now focused on more social-usefull research. Is it possible indeed that Japan is gonna suffer a lot because of Mt-Fuji blowing, but if you think that the number of operating KMF is going to drop drasticallyin the near future, a redistribution of the energie sources might be enough, and maybe even in Japan there's enough sakuradite left for civil use =)
This, or you the world heads to Gundam00 scenario, and Aeolia Schoenberg is just BaldySuzaku went nuts at the failure of ZR, and Ribbons is Lelouch/CC tubechild! =P

Yep, now they have a reason to futher lessen the use of Knightmares) And nothing helps like ecomony reasons after all)
But great point anyway, bladeofdarkness)
Huge lol))))) Esp. about Ribbons)

Originally Posted by Levy

The PD 8 kinda denies any Cécile -> Lloyd since it give you a certain idea (debatable, some thinks it's more familiar affection, but ewh, whatever..) of Cécile-> Suzaku, that is WTF-ery to me. I like our version better XD

I've heard something of the sort, but always considered it a bluff... Well, she's 7 years older and I'm ready to be beaten for this, but I would rather believe she tried to act like his mom. She helped him do his homework, dammit) And I certainly remember something like specials where she tried to make him say "I'm home" (tadaima) when he comes. She just felt that he's really lonely and tried to help with some "family" atmosphere... SO yeah, I like our version way better...

Originally Posted by Levy

Yes I see them as a team that is very effective because they complement each other really well. Lloyd puts madness, daring and his social position, Cécile takes care of the more practically aspects and develops her projects too. She seems to need to live in his shadow to be okay, and it could easily be a matter of personality and self-confidence. I'd be happy to have anything more about them, anything!

Yeah, and after reading the fanfic I've got the right term for Lloyd, he's an artist. Daring and creative (and childish in everything other than his work). And Cécile is a scientist, methodical with a lack of self-confidence.
And I think when we get OVA on "pudding earl" theme, we'll get a lot of Cécile there as well) And if any OVA is to come out, this is the first theme for it in line.

Originally Posted by Levy

yes, that's absolutely true! As opposite as they may seem, you got this 'two of a kind' moments from them that are just.. great (for their fans at least =) <3 )

Yep. And you know, I used to have clear distinction between Lloyd and Rakshata, like they support to opposite views on their creations and the people that pilot them (like total care and indifference)... And now I suddenly understood I don't see the difference anymore. In the end, they both care.
But it's said how Cecile's work is somehow underappreciated, like there are two opposites, Lloyd and Rakshata, and actually Cecile's inventions are just as important, it was "her" energy wing, if I'm not mistaken?
And now I wonder what do this have in common with a quote above? Nothing I guess...

Originally Posted by Levy

You do have a point in underlining that they show a great respect and understanding not only toward Suzaku but also toward Lelouch. They probably understood how willingfully the boys were going down a dead-end track, and accepted it.
Only thing I'm not sure about is if they know the whole plan, or just the part they need to know ("free the hostage and pretend I have forced you to help me while I go off facing Schneizel").
I wonder if they know that Suzaku is Zero now or if they have been fooled into believing that Suzaku really was dead. This is something I would like to have official confirmations about, because in the anime it is left quite unclear.

While it's still unclear and I also would love something definite said on the topic I got quite a lot of hints they knew the plan to the end.
First the did seem like knowing it fully (the scene when they're riding a horse and stuff), and I have a feeling Suzaku wouldn't hide it from them (he didn't really have a reason, it's clear they wouldn't chat around about it later). Also to play the part of "betraying" the two they have to understand it's temporary and it's not difficult to deduct (even if they didn't know which is doubtful) that it was Lelouch's death planned, and Suzaku's also (real or at least set-up, they could only go down together). So they most probably knew everything rest to Suzaku's fate. And about that, according to official version, he died in his Knightmare. Knightmare they created and knew better than anyone else. And if he found a way to escape while leaving everyone else to think he stayed inside, they would be the first ones to understand what that way was. If they weren't the ones who planned it, and I personally vote they were.

Yep, and EDIT:
If you know Tsubasa Chronicles, then have you noticed CLAMP just couldn't live without their favorite Sakura and thus Cecile image in second ending (with a bird) is reminiscence of TC first opening, she's styled like Sakura?))) Or maybe I'm just seeing things((( They are pretty different...

[yvj]

Alright fill in the blank game

Code Geass: The moral of the story is ________________