(L) Kanata no Astra (Astra Lost in Space)

[Cloudedmind]

Could it be possible that this is some sort of test run. With the memory manipulation information, a good number of the kids possibly being clones, and something possibly happening to the earth, this whole ordeal could be some kind of survival space run for the kids to gain knowledge, and memories that could then be used later. As Arya pointed out if the adults who are in on this just wanted them dead right away there are easier ways they could have done it, especially with their connections. Having them be swallowed up by a giant orb, and tossed into space 5000lyrs away leaves to much to chance, and seems overly complicated. And, then they just happen to warp out next to a mostly functioning space ship. But, if the real plot was to send these kids out to gain first hand knowledge for a possible replacement for earth while also having them out of the picture for when the new law takes into effect (because cloning), you can kill two birds with one stone.

[frodonk]

Ahh.. Revelation train is here! Looks like it will continue until the next episode!

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Not ONE of the kids has mentioned Earth as being home.

Ark theory was a bust, but the "everyone's a clone" theory is correct, and that comment about earth was almost spot on. We still don't know where the real earth is since apparently everyone here are extraterrestrials, meaning not from earth

That thing about the law on illegal clones was something I didn't pay attention to but everyone knows about it before so that's not so surprising.

What's surprising is that the sphere is a human creation. they didn't reveal details about that one yet, and I hope they do, because at this point I have more questions about how that thing works.

Going by how "everyone is a clone" theory, I still don't get how Aries fits in in all of these. If the Seira/Aries theory is correct then there should be more details about Seira and Charce that hasn't been revealed yet. Seira isn't somebody of importance to be a clone candidate, unless she's the first one and was used as an experiment?

So far the most noticeable thing about her is her photographic memory and that she's also a transferee like Charce.

There's also that little thing about the sabotaged comms device. Who broke it?

[BWTraveller]

I normally don't notice or care about rushes, but I've noticed in the last few eps. For instance, in the manga the kids weren't that quick to just say "OK yeah we're all clones". It was obvious from the test that Quitterie and Funi are clones, but it was still hard to accept. At least until a couple of them found items they'd actually packed belonging to their parents and were thus able to confirm their DNA matched as well. Additionally, Zack was supposed to mention the specific reason they absolutely had to use clones: his father's memory transfer tech had stalled upon the discovery that it didn't work unless the source and recipient had identical DNA. The only way they could transfer into a younger body would be to clone themselves.

But then, as with the shortening of Zack and Quitterie's engagement scene previously, it made sense that the rush would occur in order to ensure that the ep ended on a big point.

[FlareKnight]

Well I am curious about how the not-Earth situation will play into this. After all if they didn't have a plan for this they could just make the planet they were heading for be Earth. I suppose the wider question is whether Astra is a second home identified after Earth became uninhabitable or if a shockingly similar species and technology was developed independent of Earth. I'm presuming the first one. It would certainly line up with Poline's panic and her original mission. Astra may have been a candidate found by a different crew.

What is more curious though is why none of the cast know about Earth. If this is a second planet did they seriously just write Earth out of the history books to start fresh? Although she should have only been in stasis for 12 years or so. Was the computer off and she was actually in stasis for centuries? Was it like "12 years ago AE (after earth) but actually 200 years ago by the AD calendar"?

Either way things are certainly moving along. It's quick, but not to a point that it bothers me.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Going by how "everyone is a clone" theory, I still don't get how Aries fits in in all of these. If the Seira/Aries theory is correct then there should be more details about Seira and Charce that hasn't been revealed yet. Seira isn't somebody of importance to be a clone candidate, unless she's the first one and was used as an experiment?

I'm banking on her being a "prototype" of sorts because it would make sense that a famous/rich person would hesitate to get on the wrong side of the law on unproven science/tech.

But that's assuming Charce's story is correct because to honest my suspicion that Charce is the culprit just shot up. This is the second time I've noticed now that they've had a major discussion on why they're being targeted and Charce stayed completely silent. Once I could pass off as a coincidence but not twice. I've got to give credit to the writing though because I'm still not absolutely sure on that. I'd say my surity on Charce is about 75% right now.

Great episode of Astra. I'm not sure what the significance of Polina's descrepancy is, but the whole clone reveal and the character focus was excellent. I saw the clone reveal coming a mile away but was still impressed by how well it was handled. I hope it stays this consistent because this has actually been a really good show.

[Drake]

The cliffhanger at the end of each episode genuinely has me laughing every time now.

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by Haak

I'm banking on her being a "prototype" of sorts because it would make sense that a famous/rich person would hesitate to get on the wrong side of the law on unproven science/tech.

There's always the problem of age. As far as we know there's no tech to make clones age faster, hence Funi's age. If Charce is the culprit and is roughly the same age as everyone else, and Seira was the original of Aries, then Aries should be younger than she is now.

Unless Seira's actually older than everyone in the ship (except polina of course) and Charce is way older and his story has some inaccurate details.

I need more details lol.

[Wandering Soul]

So there sphere that sent everyone into space was man-made and used to hopefully kill off all the kids without leaving a trace. That makes sense, though the fact that everyone just happened to pop out next to a ship that was fit for life and had a roundabout way to bring to their home seems to imply that the either have an ally or it is one hell of a coincidence.

Interested in seeing where this "Not actually Earth" thing goes.

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

So there sphere that sent everyone into space was man-made and used to hopefully kill off all the kids without leaving a trace. That makes sense, though the fact that everyone just happened to pop out next to a ship that was fit for life and had a roundabout way to bring to their home seems to imply that the either have an ally or it is one hell of a coincidence.

I held off commenting on this because the series hasn't really shown how the sphere worked, all we know was that it was man-made and the originals apparently have access to it, but yeah, if the destination is random then that's yet another coincidence.

BUT

If it was man-made, meaning the sphere was placed where they were so that they could be flushed out to deep space 5000 light years away, why did it appear again on the first planet? There seems to be no indication that they knew they failed the first time, and if they activated that sphere for the second time knowing that all of the clones got into a spaceship and are heading home, then they should be taking more drastic measures to kill them, instead of having a meeting telling each other "mission accomplished"

Makes me think the activation of the sphere might be dependent on one of the members of the group. But if that's the case then I'm not sure why that member wants everyone dead. During episode 2, the sphere disappeared once Aries revealed to Charce that she has photographic memory, making him the most suspicious in that group again lol.

[Nivek von Beldo]

I loved the Catch of the sphere and charche...wonder what will come next..

I put a counter theory....Aries is not a clone at all, she is just a innocent bystander put to be killed just to make the ruse work(if were all related to the clone plan would be too obvious, much like Luca was made a esposito to cover some tracks too) or maybe Aries is the secret perpetrator? one is not conscuious when happen...

And Polina Reveal and how the crew reacted like was nothing....And Fitting the Planet Name is Astra...aka Kanata own Astra.... They will get a lot of suprises next week when Polina tell them about own earth...

[Kanon]

I'm glad we finally got the clone and boddy swapping reveal out of the way because that was obvious ever since the beach episode. I was wondering how exactly they would find out they're all clones and they figured it out just like that. I'm not surprised to hear it went differently in the manga. The anime screwed up IMO, for them to be this certain they're all clones and that their parents intended to take over their bodies to enjoy a second youth when they don't have concrete evidence was really odd. They should have at least have Zack mention his "dad"'s memory transfer device only worked between people sharing the same DNA.

Waiting for an explanation about the sphere. Hopefully, it's not something the anime will skip.

The twist at the end was really great. We knew the show's history differed from ours, but it didn't occur to me the kids could be from another planet. Given that none of the kids know of the name "Earth", humans must have moved to Astra quite some time ago. I guess historical records were lost during the World War that occurred a hundred years ago, and for some reason the new government ordered people to forget Earth. Anyway, it's clear that Polina spent a lot more than 12 years in cold sleep.
How is this related to the kids' story though? I mean, they find out their ancestors were from another planet and then what?

[Irenesharda]

Oh my, my, my, my!

The clones thing was no surprise. We had guessed that a while ago. The kids took it rather well, though it is fascinating how cold the parents are and how much they were willing to get eternal youth. It indeed was the simplest answer considering. Quite sad and angering to see how much their parents really didn't care, how Luca's original even purposely made him intersex because of some whim, or that Funicia's original just created her to get some extra organs.

I am happy that the kids are going to get some sweet revenge on their parents. Though I fear the government might not let them alone considering their "clone" status.

However, I was expecting another cliffhanger, and we got it! I had thought it fishy that Polina was the only one to call the home planet "Earth". However, it's a bit of a shock that the kids have NO idea what Earth is. Are you telling me, in less than 12 years time, the word "Earth" in reference to the planet was stripped from the human lexicon?

THAT is a little hard to swallow.

So, whatever Polina feared would happen already did. Is Astra simply a damaged Earth, but under a different name? Or is this a different planet entirely?

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I normally don't notice or care about rushes, but I've noticed in the last few eps. For instance, in the manga the kids weren't that quick to just say "OK yeah we're all clones". It was obvious from the test that Quitterie and Funi are clones, but it was still hard to accept. At least until a couple of them found items they'd actually packed belonging to their parents and were thus able to confirm their DNA matched as well. Additionally, Zack was supposed to mention the specific reason they absolutely had to use clones: his father's memory transfer tech had stalled upon the discovery that it didn't work unless the source and recipient had identical DNA. The only way they could transfer into a younger body would be to clone themselves.

But then, as with the shortening of Zack and Quitterie's engagement scene previously, it made sense that the rush would occur in order to ensure that the ep ended on a big point.

Oh, this makes a whole lot more sense. It was a little off how large their jumps in logic were. But this helps. I wish they would have left it in there and dropped some of the party antics instead. They weren't even that funny...

Originally Posted by Haak

I'm banking on her being a "prototype" of sorts because it would make sense that a famous/rich person would hesitate to get on the wrong side of the law on unproven science/tech.

But that's assuming Charce's story is correct because to honest my suspicion that Charce is the culprit just shot up. This is the second time I've noticed now that they've had a major discussion on why they're being targeted and Charce stayed completely silent. Once I could pass off as a coincidence but not twice. I've got to give credit to the writing though because I'm still not absolutely sure on that. I'd say my surity on Charce is about 75% right now.

Originally Posted by frodonk

Makes me think the activation of the sphere might be dependent on one of the members of the group. But if that's the case then I'm not sure why that member wants everyone dead. During episode 2, the sphere disappeared once Aries revealed to Charce that she has photographic memory, making him the most suspicious in that group again lol.

I too am banking on Seria being the prototype. I mean, as you say, most rich and powerful people would need something a bit more tangible than simply a good theory to go along with this scheme. They would probably need proof that the cloning process works, but they would also need proof that transferring the mind/memories to that clone would work as well.

My last theory was off, so time to form another hypothesis. I too think Charce is a little off. Also, the fact that the supposed manmade wormhole showed up a second time, but the people of Earth seem to be unaware. I have a new theory!

What if Charce is that second prototype? The proof that the memory transfer could actually work? What if Charce is actually much older and it is the "orgininal"s" memories that are in his mind now? It is he who is the plant, and who controlled the sphere the second time.
It would explain Seira and what she and Aries are sort of look the same age. Seira was Charce's "father's" friend, who he lost. He found her and had her cloned to save her life. Perhaps he's even the one who invented the process (Olive Rafelli just said that they used her hospital, NOT that she perfected the process) in order to give her a new beginning. Charce is a "biologist" after all, Genetics is just a subsidiary of that.
However, even cloning Seira, he was missing the memories, so he created his own clone and became the guinea pig.
Somewhere along the way, he began to regret his actions and so volunteered to destroy all the evidence, including himself. The well-intentioned scientist that got carried away. It's why he was never in shock about Aries appearance. He expected her, as he was part of the conspiracy.

[Chosen_Hero]

I feel like there might be way too many people in this thread that are using manga spoilers as "lucky guesses", but that's just me.

[Random14]

Too bad they skipped over a few things (Zack explaining his father's research in detail is a major part of how they work things out) but they got most of the character moments right. Ouch, even though most of them weren't close to their parents (with the exception of Aries, and her mother definitely wasn't part of that evil organization meeting) it still hurts finding out just why the parents were so distant. Kanata's "father" might be the worst since he spent the most time with his clone (training him, but still).

Zack announcing their engagement was really funny and helped with morale. They get a lot of mileage out of his emotionless eyes. And then they end it on another big shock. I like these big moments, almost funny that this is all happening right on the ship rather than while they're struggling on some random planet. But then it is nice to see the foreshadowing pay off. So that's one mystery mostly dealt with (why someone tried to kill their group), now onto Polina.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Oh my, my, my, my!

The clones thing was no surprise. We had guessed that a while ago. The kids took it rather well, though it is fascinating how cold the parents are and how much they were willing to get eternal youth. It indeed was the simplest answer considering. Quite sad and angering to see how much their parents really didn't care, how Luca's original even purposely made him intersex because of some whim, or that Funicia's original just created her to get some extra organs.

I am happy that the kids are going to get some sweet revenge on their parents. Though I fear the government might not let them alone considering their "clone" status.

However, I was expecting another cliffhanger, and we got it! I had thought it fishy that Polina was the only one to call the home planet "Earth". However, it's a bit of a shock that the kids have NO idea what Earth is. Are you telling me, in less than 12 years time, the word "Earth" in reference to the planet was stripped from the human lexicon?

They're using different calendars. If there was a cataclysm within 12 years of Polina going to sleep, but also a migration to Astra, that might be a good time to reset the clock. But that would mean Polina spent 2000+ years asleep. It also means her ship kept working for all that time. The Astra too. And how would they still speak the same language?

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They're using different calendars. If there was a cataclysm within 12 years of Polina going to sleep, but also a migration to Astra, that might be a good time to reset the clock. But that would mean Polina spent 2000+ years asleep. It also means her ship kept working for all that time. The Astra too. And how would they still speak the same language?

I mean, the conclusion has to be that Polina was asleep for longer than our current crew estimated. The years match up and yet, don't. We see that the dominant language, despite the crew speaking Japanese for the audience, is English. We see it in the writing everywhere and so must assume the crew is "speaking" it too. However, English itself has changed quite a bit in the last few centuries. If it indeed is 2000+ years later, how are the two able to clearly understand each other? They don't even comment on Polina speaking in an archaic or old-fashioned way. Polina also makes no mention of a change in fashion or culture that should be vastly different if 2000+ years had gone by either.

So, it can't be so long ago that the language is virtually unchanged, and yet it HAS to be in order for a word like "Earth" to be completely taken from out of the spoken and written language.
The planet of Astra has to have some connection to the Earth considering the culture and world they have there, and yet, something's not adding up yet.

Parallel worlds, perhaps? A rip in space and time?

[Applehell]

Wow, what an episode of bombshells huh?

Honestly, I didn't see the "everyone is a clone thing coming". Zack's explanation makes sense, but a crucial links of was connected to things he knew and hypothesized that we didn't. The logical connections just weren't there between the big pieces (DNA sampling law, Zack's father memory transplant and Raffaëlli sisters mother in involved in cloning research) or at least things be explained in other ways. The estrangement we see the kids have towards their families isn't new, but they are rarely this extreme we see the full extent of in this episode. The lack of definitive evidence (which apparently was cut from the anime since everyone apparently got tested) makes it hard for the reader to come to the same conclusion without taking a shot in the dark based on conjecture. I don't mean dislike how the anime did it, but I find hard for anyone to think this was predictable unless your purely running on meta narrative logic.

Aries' mother might have known she was a clone, but it doesn't seem like she was in on the plan. Charce's mum isn't there so she to may be in the dark.

That said, none of this compares to the biggest plotbomb this week: that our characters aren't even from "earth", but what is a similar looking planet. That tops the clone thing by far and just makes you wonder how far this all goes? I feel like if they bring Polina back this isn't gonna be he end of if for them unless they hide her identity or something. But maybe more to this it not necessarily a giant conspiracy.

Eitherway this show has shot in my ranks this season and it was already steadily climbing them!

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I am happy that the kids are going to get some sweet revenge on their parents. Though I fear the government might not let them alone considering their "clone" status.

Well, cloning is prohibited (for quite good reason given that most likely reason someone would want a clone is to later harvest them for organs) but I can't see being a clone being forbidden too unless either the writer is a hack (it would be same as saying X crime being forbidden meaning victims of X are put to death, clones are the victims of cloning crime) or there is some taboo or scientific reason that makes them dangerous involved. In fact given that the government has gone with the DNA testing law even though cloning tech being a thing is not widely known, is probably because they suspect these kind of schemes (organ harvesting) are or will soon be a thing.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Seira was Charce's "father's" friend, who he lost. He found her and had her cloned to save her life. Perhaps he's even the one who invented the process (Olive Rafelli just said that they used her hospital, NOT that she perfected the process) in order to give her a new beginning. Charce is a "biologist" after all, Genetics is just a subsidiary of that.

Quaterrie should have made observations that her mom was actively researching in a field next to cloning. It was part of the hints, like Zack mentioning memory transfer. So I'm not sure a third scientist is needed. Q's mom did the biological side of the equation (producing the clones) and Z's father would do/has done the memory transfer part.

[Arya]

ahh, so in the end they are trying to reach Altered Carbon Technology. This aspect doesn't intrigue me that much to be honest, but yeah, the jump from Quitterie and Funi being clones to everyone are clones could have been handled better. We basically got informed of that, dot, just to switch to the engagement
Then, kudos to Irenesharda for guessing it right, Earth in not Earth, or better, Astra is not Earth. On that I'd agree with Anh_Minh they are using different calendars, well not different calendars, the "scan" of time is the same, they just reset the year counting. But in this way the time Polina slept is far too long, 2000+ years. The state of the ships don't suggest it either. still the ships are there, so they needed a certain time to re-populate the new Earth. Because one or more ships of the Ark plan suceeded reaching Astra starting repopulating it. Again, if this is the case it's kinda impossible nobody remember about Earth as nobody preserved its memory.

About the kill them all with the magical spehere I still think is too convoluted. But yeah, if you have a magical sphere at hand why not? Until they don't explore how it works I won't be sold on it anyways. And yeah, I forgot it appeared twice. Probably it's something that can be triggered by the sleeper.

[Anh_Minh]

I kinda wonder how they identified Lucca's original, though. Since they mentioned "artist".

I also wonder why the singer didn't want to:
1. train her future body's pipes;
2. build up her brand.