2010-11-30, 10:57 | Link #19241 | |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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And wouldn't it literally traumatize the other kids? Maybe Battler's sin was he never came back for 6 years, and when he finally does, they decide to teach him a lesson by playing a prank where everyone dies. But unfortunately, there had to be a real killer among 'em >_>
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2010-11-30, 11:13 | Link #19242 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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There are actually many good reasons to be convinced to fake something. No doubt it would sound initially quite silly, but there are many strong motivating factors for helping out. If the faker is one of the servants, the other servants going along with it isn't too much of a stretch (especially given some circumstances suggested), and the adults all have financial problems and might very well be willing to go in on a strange or silly prank on the promise of money (a promise that can be backed up by the tangible physical presence of the gold, which is hinted in ep2).
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2010-11-30, 11:28 | Link #19244 |
panchi~
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 34
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I apologize if this has already been brought up before, but...
17 deaths in the first game 17 deaths in the second game 16 deaths in the third game 17 deaths in the fourth game This makes 67 7 deaths in the fifth game makes 74 16 deaths in the seventh game makes 90 90 is 18 people away from the rather magical number of 108, and there's 18 people on the island including the quantum character (Kinzo/Erika/Lion/Beatrice). I dunno what I'm getting at here, just found it interesting.
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2010-11-30, 11:35 | Link #19245 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I think a good hint would be Eva flat out telling Battler what was happening (Shannon dressing up as Beatrice, in some sort of ploy). So, it could really be that the whole thing was indeed planned to be a fake mystery for Battler to solve.
My problem with this would be how would this related at all with the love trial in EP6. I mean, I could easily say that Yasu/Lion planned this from the beginning, and that Shannon and Kanon along with their roles (as servants and as George's and Jessica's love interests) were entirely fictional, but then that'd make me wonder if this create any friction with EP6's love trial. Of course, I could also assume that Yasu did play the Shannon and Kanon roles before 1986 and that she did get close to George and Jessica as it was shown in the games, but then it'd make me question her a lot if she just decided to forget about them, as soon as she heard Battler would come back. This would be contradictory as well, since I don't think George and Jessica would take part in this game, had Yasu done that to them. There's also the assumption that she did plan this game with the adults, but before she heard about Battler coming back, and this game had, originally, nothing to do with Battler. Either way, I'm still wondering why Battler's presence in the island caused the whole thing to go from one (supposedly) mere game to a massacre. I think there are enough hints to say things didn't go in a way Yasu wanted them to, but it makes me wonder who exploited this game this way and for what reason.
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2010-11-30, 12:40 | Link #19247 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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In short, my idea is that the Beatrice faction (most of the servants, at least GENSAWAJO), are under orders from Beatrice to do this. They follow the Epitaph closely, faking people's deaths for Battler. This is why one of the siblings always keeps Battler close in EP1-4 since they were selected as the key and this is how Beatrice can return the dead to life later.... It is probably to make Battler cave and believe in magic, perhaps? Check out the topics in the link in my signature. It explains all this in greater detail. |
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2010-11-30, 14:27 | Link #19249 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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In addition to this, the person Battler remembers from 6 years prior is Shannon. So, at the very least we can tell Yasu was going by that name on 1980. She was also working as a servant, although, as impressions go by, she didn't look like a mere servant, but as the child of one of them - or so, that's what the cousins seemed to think. Of course, we could say this part of the story is also elaborated fiction - or, it is to some extent, like when it comes down to names, for example. However, personally, I'm not willing to doubt the story that far. Either way, that'd still be valid reasoning, I think.
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2010-11-30, 14:32 | Link #19250 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Thing is, I took from EP 5 and 6 that the FT is always supposed to be faked, just ... it usually fails because of real murder. Ep 5 and 6 werent even really hinting at it - those arcs said that, outright. The problem, then, is who actually killed the cousins + Rosa/Genji in Ep5, and where. Which brings me to another thing (sorry, I've been reading these threads forever, but I only just started posting, so I dunno if any sort of conclusion was reached on certain matters). That other thing being, ah, the information that was available to Erika. The cousins were killed after they were "discovered" in the guesthouse, but the technicality was that even though Erika ended the game prematurely, the Red truths used by Lambda referred to a point in time, on the gameboard, that Erika chose to just not participate in, right? So the cousins could have been alive and well at the time Erika cornered Natsuhi in the parlor... So... why was the faking so succesful in Ep 5 ...? |
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2010-11-30, 14:42 | Link #19251 |
panchi~
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 34
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The 'bomb' right? It's responsible for the last few deaths in Eps 1 and 2 and Battler's death in 4. Who says it's not responsible for every death in 5 and 6? (6 if Erika hadn't gone yangire)
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2010-11-30, 14:47 | Link #19252 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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The problem would be why? Is the bomb always set to detonate, no matter what may happen?
In EP5 two things happened: 1. The Epitaph got solved - by Battler, to boot. 2. The fake murders were, apparently, successful. So, no one really died. So, assuming the points above are right, why the explosion?
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2010-11-30, 14:49 | Link #19253 |
panchi~
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 34
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We never got to see most of the second day, for all we know Erika could have set the bomb herself after using her detective proclamation to accuse Natsuhi.
Also, the first five or six deaths were faked, but Hideyoshi's might not have been (I can't really remember). There still could have been something going on behind the scenes and crucially in Eps 5-6 this might be to do with the arrival of Erika itself.
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2010-11-30, 14:53 | Link #19254 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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EP5 and EP6 weren't complete at the time the game stopped so we don't know how they would end. Technically speaking, unless red is used to outright tell the state of a person there is a possibility that the person could still be alive. I already said in these threads that the game master could alter the shape of the game that s/he might originally planned depending on how the detective moves.
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2010-11-30, 15:02 | Link #19255 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Maybe, but then we'd have to check which those factors may have been and how they'd influence the decision of using the bomb on an episode in which, apparently, there was no need to use it.
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2010-11-30, 15:07 | Link #19256 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Strictly speaking, a "logic error" probably isnt even possible, and only occurs when the GM doesnt know their own answer, and so cant defend their moves properly. So ... yeah, Erika. We didn't get to see most of games 5 and 6, and apparently, neither did Erika. Even though it was heavily implied that both of those games had conclusions, but Erika chose to ignore them. In a very literal sense, as though she'd decided she could identify the culprit on Chapter 10 or so of a 30-chapter novel, and just put the book down. And then there's the fact that, despite being the detective (and a rather astute one, at that), she never noted anything odd about Shannon / Kanon, between the number of people she saw, and the number of names she was clearly using. In fact, she ignored them almost completely, huh? |
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2010-11-30, 15:11 | Link #19257 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Plus it's entirely possible to just fictionalize and transfer a bunch of real encounters between Yasu and Battler to Shannon and Battler. Only Battler-Prime would know for sure. The Love Trial is relevant if Beatrice, Shannon, and Kanon are fictionalizations of internal conflicts or options for the future. The personalities in conflict representing not actual personalities, but a decision to be made as to how to proceed. Shannon winning may not be such a good thing. EDIT: In fact, it could be a very, very bad thing, if we associate the Shannon-George relationship as representing a metaphorical "throw everything away and forge a new life" concept...
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2010-11-30, 15:19 | Link #19258 | |||
panchi~
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Age: 34
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The shame at having been fooled and humiliated so utterly? She isn't the sanest cast member. Quote:
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2010-11-30, 15:34 | Link #19259 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Hmm... would that be a bad thing? Aren't we usually told that being stuck on past possibilities that didn't/haven't come to be is a bad thing (especially, when they are painful), and that moving on and finding happiness elsewhere is good?
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