Lucky Star - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Vexx]

aye.. good point. I should point out that though Kona exhibits many traits of an ADD person, we really can't call her one for sure since she isn't diagnosed.

It really isn't a binary state, its a spectrum diagnosis. Fundamentally, its a description of brain wiring and biochemical reactions. Being easily distracted has value if you're on the lookout for predators... less value in other environments. Same for hyperfocus, it has value in stalking and problem solving ... but less so when you have to juggle multiple tasks.

Asperger's is sometimes mistaken for autism or ADD... the problem is that all these labels are pretty much *descriptions* of behavior patterns and there is overlap. Even "normal" people (whoever those are) have traits that overlap with many of the labels. You have to think of the labels as "conditional blobby" descriptions.

Sometimes I point out that everyone "has" cancer... its just that in most people the immune system does a very good job of smacking the errant cells. Was that random?

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Vexx

aye.. good point. I should point out that though Kona exhibits many traits of an ADD person, we really can't call her one for sure since she isn't diagnosed.

It really isn't a binary state, its a spectrum diagnosis. Fundamentally, its a description of brain wiring and biochemical reactions. Being easily distracted has value if you're on the lookout for predators... less value in other environments. Same for hyperfocus, it has value in stalking and problem solving ... but less so when you have to juggle multiple tasks.

Asperger's is sometimes mistaken for autism or ADD... the problem is that all these labels are pretty much *descriptions* of behavior patterns and there is overlap. Even "normal" people (whoever those are) have traits that overlap with many of the labels. You have to think of the labels as "conditional blobby" descriptions.

Sometimes I point out that everyone "has" cancer... its just that in most people the immune system does a very good job of smacking the errant cells. Was that random?

Yeah, I remember hearing a long while ago, some people thought I had ADD. As for autism, however, there is a belief that Asperger's is a high-functioning section of the autism spectrum disorder. They certainly carry many similarities.

For some reason, out of all of the characters, I keep on thinking that Hiyori might have something though.

[Risaa]

I'm not going to get into it, but *most* people do have some sort of psychological "problem" (whether it's a problem or not depends on the individual and to what degree problem is present). It's simply that most individuals go untreated. Heck, more than likely *I* have something but I'm too shy to visit a doctor.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'm more of Claies' mind -- that they're distracted by the new shiny of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Notice the SZS release rate. Couple that with the minor "heat" they've been taking for their localization of Lucky*Star since ep 1 and the thrill may be wearing thin for them. That's pure speculation of course based on the few clues observed.

Going to be a little off-topic here: L*S has a bunch of subbers subbing it (or claim to be) whereas Zetsubou Sensei only has one -- a.f.k.. This is really just a guess, but it may be that because there's no other subbers doing Zetsubou Sensei, people will not complain to them about their localization (that and many viewers don't care/like it that way... not to mention, I can just see whiners [[like myself ]] getting flamed to death). They're very proficient subbers, don't get me wrong. It's that their localization, and the degree to which they take it, is left a bit more unnoticed when there's no other releases to compare them to, and those who can understand enough Japanese to get all the puns probably wouldn't care to say anything... At least that's what I think.

[bayoab]

Regarding the whole having ADD/ADHD thing, you also need to remember that the normal average teenager currently has a ~3 second attention span when it comes to media and recreation. Konata does not act like someone who has an inability to focus. She just has things she rather be doing that do not involve work.

Also, there are those who read so much text online that they will tend to not want to read printed media.

And on the random side note, the news in the a.f.k. channel topic is factually correct.

[Vexx]

That a.f.k is dropping it or that its been licensed? Source? Reference? I'm fine if its true but we know how rumors roam the Net....

[Luminisk]

Originally Posted by Vexx

That a.f.k is dropping it or that its been licensed? Source? Reference? I'm fine if its true but we know how rumors roam the Net....

Yes... I'd like a link to the source also, I quite skeptical that LS would get licensed.

First off, It's a localization nightmare; too much cultural *in* jokes and yes... talking, I can't even imagine what it'll sound like getting dubbed.

[Vexx]

Oh, I imagine we'll see it licensed for R1 (probably via the same route as SHnY) and its been shown that a good job *can* be done (e.g. PaniPoniDash) with quirky cultural reference shows.

Neither I nor any of the usual suspects (I've also got folks over at some other forums looking as well as some other sources) have found any announcements or data from any of the usual channels So unless a.f.k. got a C&D or a private letter.... all I can label it as is "unverified".

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Actually.. I have ADD (not ADHD), diagnosed by a neurologist. *snip for space*

My wife is diagnosed with ADD and so is my son, and they are both also able to concentrate on something for long periods of time - as long as it interests them. What they have problems doing is dealing with multiple things at once and distinguishing between what they should be doing. ADD is not characterized by short attention spans unless the subject is bored.

Originally Posted by Luminisk

Yes... I'd like a link to the source also, I quite skeptical that LS would get licensed.

First off, It's a localization nightmare; too much cultural *in* jokes and yes... talking, I can't even imagine what it'll sound like getting dubbed.

I don't really see why this would be a big deal - like Vexx said, Pani Poni Dash got licensed. Not only that, but Excel Saga, Negima!? and Hare + Guu were all licensed as well. Also, culturally difficult shows like Kamichu, AIR, Azumanga Daioh and Strawberry Marshmallow have all been licensed. There is nothing really intrinsic to Lucky Star that would be more difficult than those shows offered. Though I think it would probably be better handled if ADV ends up with it rather than, say, Funimation.

Also, unless they got a C&D letter, this rumor seems kind of artificial. I mean, look at the explosion caused by the Kanon 2006 trailers that animeondvd discovered on ADV's site, or the leaked news about possibile Marimite and Zero no Tsukaima licenses from Diamond's catalog earlier this year. I sort of think if there was something similar for Lucky Star we would have seen something. Though if they were served with a C&D that might make sense (and also, funnily enough, probably tell us who licensed it).

[Vexx]

Friend of mine in another forum went to the irc channel and asked point blank. The answer was "we said it was and that's all you need to know"

So, with the facts at hand, the best analysis is:
1) they've dropped it to do SZS.
2) its still unlicensed.
3) they're being tight-lipped for undetermined reasons, only insisting its been licensed.
4) the trackers are all still up for existing episodes.

There is no evidence to support any other view for now other than a possibility they're just pranking.

We still have other subbers doing a nice job -- one is fast if lean, the others appear to be on summer break for now.

The only wry comment I have is to wonder why anyone would think that an unverified assertion would be accepted uncritically

[Luminisk]

It's a pity since they're the only group up until now that have been releasing regularly.

Guess I'll bite the bullet and download the guerrand ones.





P.S. O.o they have .ass files I don't have to download whole episodes again.

[Vexx]

aye.. those who have the raws can just snap the .ass files at Guerrand's website. I am hoping EnA picks it up again when school starts, but til then the Guerrand people are appreciated.

I suspect it is pretty much a given that this series *will* be licensed for R1 at some point -- probably as SHnY's production tails off (?).

[Luminisk]

Yeah, things sure are tight-lipped.

I guess we'll wait and see how things develops.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Vexx

they're distracted by the new shiny of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Notice the SZS release rate. Couple that with the minor "heat" they've been taking for their localization of Lucky*Star since ep 1 and the thrill may be wearing thin for them.

Originally Posted by Risaa

L*S has a bunch of subbers subbing it (or claim to be) whereas Zetsubou Sensei only has one -- a.f.k.. This is really just a guess, but it may be that because there's no other subbers doing Zetsubou Sensei, people will not complain to them about their localization (that and many viewers don't care/like it that way... not to mention, I can just see whiners [[like myself ]] getting flamed to death).

I hardly follow the discussions in the Lucky Star folder or any folder dedicated to single anime for that matter; it's way too time-consuming. And Lucky star isn't exactly high on my list. I just came here to find out if I should wait for a.f.k. or jump onto the Guerrand train (Meanwhile I've watched ep 17). So I don't know about the amount of flames they got. I do remember however how people screamed bloody murder when they translated "moe" as "turn-on". So I assume it was something like that.

So for the records: I can't remember any localizations in a.f.k.'s LS subs in the real sense of the word. If you want a prime example for real localization buy the first LovCom manga by Viz (which you should do in any case ) and you'll see how heights given in centimeters, the globally preferred units of measurements were converted into feet and inches which are only locally (sic!) used. "turn-on" is not a local term. "moe" is about as local as things can get (I don't even know if the standard non-otaku Japanese knows the otaku-meaning of the word.) So if anything, a.f.k. is guilty of "globalization". (Which can also be said about all professional translators, including those who translate real *books* for a well-educated audience, not just anime for Joe Sixpack.)

I would complain if translators introduced American popcultural references, transformed riceballs into donuts or simply renamed the whole cast to Andy, Mandy, Sandy, and Randy. But I find nothing dishonorable about translating into standard English as opposed to otaku English even though I understand and accept both. Guerrand's constant translation of XYZ-neesan as sister XYZ irked me though. This is an anime, not a convent. Leave it at XYZ-neesan (otaku English) or make it simply XYZ (standard English).

(Very) long story (very) short: I was perfectly satisfied with the a.f.k. subs and I hope they didn't drop LS (if they really did) as a reaction to flames. I'm looking forward to more stuff from them.

[Kurogane_Shiroikaze]

Anyone has any idea what the light novel that Kagamin "jiiiiiiiiii~"ed on Konata this episode was about? The author's Ichiro Sakaki, who did the Scrapped Princess novels and I'd like to know what his latest work is about.

[shiro83]

Originally Posted by Kurogane_Shiroikaze

Anyone has any idea what the light novel that Kagamin "jiiiiiiiiii~"ed on Konata this episode was about? The author's Ichiro Sakaki, who did the Scrapped Princess novels and I'd like to know what his latest work is about.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=107

[WanderingKnight]

So for the records: I can't remember any localizations in a.f.k.'s LS subs in the real sense of the word. If you want a prime example for real localization buy the first LovCom manga by Viz (which you should do in any case ) and you'll see how heights given in centimeters, the globally preferred units of measurements were converted into feet and inches which are only locally (sic!) used. "turn-on" is not a local term. "moe" is about as local as things can get (I don't even know if the standard non-otaku Japanese knows the otaku-meaning of the word.) So if anything, a.f.k. is guilty of "globalization". (Which can also be said about all professional translators, including those who translate real *books* for a well-educated audience, not just anime for Joe Sixpack.)

The term localization in translation is used exactly for what you used the term globalization. Besides, it can be just as well argued that the term globalization is a pretentious one--who says in every single country they understand the term "turn on"? Even more--you're talking about a term in a single language; English, even when it's the lingua franca right now, is not a language understood by the whole world.

Localization at a large scale doesn't necessarily mean direct references to a single country's culture--and this applies even more when you have more than four countries that speak the same language.

Just to note, localization is not actually an "official" translation method (at least according to the authors I've read so far). There are a plethora of different methods, many of which are covered at large by "localization".

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

The term localization in translation is used exactly for what you used the term globalization.

I know that, but it's still a badly chosen term which throws two very different things together, and all the gray areas in between. Read "in the real sense of the word" as "in the literal sense of the word" if you like that better.

Just to note, localization is not actually an "official" translation method (at least according to the authors I've read so far). There are a plethora of different methods, many of which are covered at large by "localization".

Again, that depends on how you interpret the term. Professional translators of fictional texts will avoid leaving terms untranslated. They will not replace untranslatable terms by completely different terms of similar cultural status however. I'm OK with the former and don't see a.f.k. being guilty of the latter.

[Risaa]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Spoiler for spoil'd for space:

I hardly follow the discussions in the Lucky Star folder or any folder dedicated to single anime for that matter; it's way too time-consuming. And Lucky star isn't exactly high on my list. I just came here to find out if I should wait for a.f.k. or jump onto the Guerrand train (Meanwhile I've watched ep 17). So I don't know about the amount of flames they got. I do remember however how people screamed bloody murder when they translated "moe" as "turn-on". So I assume it was something like that.

So for the records: I can't remember any localizations in a.f.k.'s LS subs in the real sense of the word. If you want a prime example for real localization buy the first LovCom manga by Viz (which you should do in any case ) and you'll see how heights given in centimeters, the globally preferred units of measurements were converted into feet and inches which are only locally (sic!) used. "turn-on" is not a local term. "moe" is about as local as things can get (I don't even know if the standard non-otaku Japanese knows the otaku-meaning of the word.) So if anything, a.f.k. is guilty of "globalization". (Which can also be said about all professional translators, including those who translate real *books* for a well-educated audience, not just anime for Joe Sixpack.)

I would complain if translators introduced American popcultural references, transformed riceballs into donuts or simply renamed the whole cast to Andy, Mandy, Sandy, and Randy. But I find nothing dishonorable about translating into standard English as opposed to otaku English even though I understand and accept both. Guerrand's constant translation of XYZ-neesan as sister XYZ irked me though. This is an anime, not a convent. Leave it at XYZ-neesan (otaku English) or make it simply XYZ (standard English).

(Very) long story (very) short: I was perfectly satisfied with the a.f.k. subs and I hope they didn't drop LS (if they really did) as a reaction to flames. I'm looking forward to more stuff from them.

This is the sort of thing I'm avoiding in the Zetsubou Sensei thread... there's only one thread there and I'd hate to start up a possible "let's talk about how a.f.k. is good/bad" discussion -- I'd much rather leave it alone and everyone to just continue talking about how much they love the series.

I think it's great that you like a.f.k., really. I mentioned that I think they're great subbers; they do a good job and work hard at it -- I almost wish I could be just as satisfied.

Edit: Wow! I actually snuck in before Vexx. There's a first time for everything... Of course, his post is 10x greater than mine.

[Vexx]

One of my sidejobs is to translate the messages from a hardware diagnostics and test tool made by a local company that used by both Japanese and English speakers. More than a few of the terms used run into localization issues and sometimes I'll have to talk to the originator to get a better idea of the "spirit" of the message. (e.g. "The doorway of the XYZ piece is open" ->"The chip's XYZ module functionality is active.")

Professionally, "localization" means to adapt alien material for a target audience so that it doesn't feel alien or foreign to them. It a term that's been "stolen" from the software development jargon as best as I can tell.

Here's what wiki says, "Localization is the adaptation of an object to a locality. An example is in software localization, where the messages that a program presents to a user need to be translated into various languages. Language localization refers to the process of adapting a language for a specific country or region. " (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localization)

This may mean changing idiomatic expressions (e.g. "What's up?"), proverbial references (e.g. "He rose like Lazurus."), or anything that might make the audience uncomfortable because it ain't like home (e.g. mochi==donuts).

a.f.k. hasn't been spotted doing the third one but they have done the first two. Whether it works or not depends on the expectation of the viewer.
Changing food words (e.g. 'donburi' -> 'rice bowl' or 'yakisoba'->panfried noodles') may seem very unnecessary to anyone who even infrequently eats asian food. Puns can be much trickier as can the word game 'shiritori'. It also depends on whether one wants to expand the viewer's horizon or commit the insult of underestimating the audience.

Dropping the honorifics and not coming up with some sort of speech formal style to account for relationship changes is really problematic, especially in romance or slice-of-life programs. Even many of the manga translations recognize that and at least put a guide in the preface.

No, there's not really a 'right' answer but, at least in my opinion, what a.f.k. does works fine for something like, say, Cowboy Bebop or Death Note... but not as well for things like Lucky*Star, Hidamari Sketch, etc. I feel it is better to modify one's translation rules depending on the various parameters.

[AVPlaya]

Oyoyo, can we talk about this in the general thread? This EP is pretty nice, we can find more thing to talk about it, neh?

I personally thought the Lucky * Animal segment was hilarious... I think Kona really really knows Kagami well knowing that the deredere part of the Tsundere is like bunny rabbit... and she hits nail on the head when Kagami blushes... oh, you can see in Kagamin's deredere heart she longs to be a bunny... but how many ppl will really say that without knowing her well? Kona is a scary little otaku...

I also don't agree with Minami being an Eagle... she doesn't seem to be full of pride to me, like an Eagle would, but she's rather self-conscious and probably the nicest girl in the show. Not at all aggressive, just a bit of a loner. She seemed more like a shy furry type animal to me.. not sure which one... Yui-nee-chan is more like a Tigress than a Leopard to me.. Leopards are slender and graceful creatures who likes solitude... Yui-nee-chan ain't graceful, and she sure as hell doesn't like being alone.