(CR) Saikyou Onmyouji no Isekai Tenseiki (The Reincarnation of the Strongest Onmyoji)

[magnuskn]

No idea where Mable was in any way "cocky", she has been presented as a "super serious all the time" character.

And, just, wow about people brushing off the really gross and absolutely evil way in which the spy was executed.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And, just, wow about people brushing off the really gross and absolutely evil way in which the spy was executed.

Nothing to write home about. All those summons can't be free. There are propably some bind for contract, probably the smarter ones and these are ayakashi, famous for eat humans so he probably need to sacrifice someone everytime he ask them for help. Again they are ayakashi, fickle and inhuman beings so for that the "don't get any funny ideas" moment.

The spy needed to go, that much is indisputable. Getting him eaten in front of him wasn't enjoyable.

[Rasty]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

No idea where Mable was in any way "cocky", she has been presented as a "super serious all the time" character.

I wouldn't classify her as cocky, but she certainly has the attitude of "You all are just children, only I am a proper adult." which could piss off most.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And, just, wow about people brushing off the really gross and absolutely evil way in which the spy was executed.

I am not going into the quagmire of how humane or acceptable killing someone is in this setting. However, as far as executions/killings go, this wasn't really so bad. The spy got chomped down from his head pretty fast. If Satori wasn't reading out his thoughts it wouldn't be disturbing at all. It might seem like pretty cruel, but even the most "humane" execution method of that time (beheading) isn't instantaneous. Ignoring all the botched executions, even if properly done the head can stay conscious for at least half a minute (though obviously, it can't speak). Source

[magnuskn]

Seikya could absolutely have just painlessly executed the guy, we all know that. Instead he actively instigated that abomination to eat him alive, all the while listening to its sickening narration. Yeah, sorry, but that is a pretty evil act. It would make him out to be the villain of the show in almost any other show which isn't actively trying to be grimdark. Bad move on part of the writers, IMO.

[Rasty]

^ Might be pretty hard since he needs to get rid of all traces. Don't forget, just breaking his neck like other anime often show doesn't kill the person immediately. Maybe he could have knocked him out before letting Satori eat him, no idea whether he can do it so that he won't wake while getting eaten though. Anyway, I find it nice to find out that the MC is actually not a purely good guy. He became partly callous towards death and suffering in his previous life and this perfectly shows it. He needed him dead and the body gone and this was the handiest way (+ he awarded his pet) so he did it this way.

Btw, a new episode is out. Seika is pretty caring towards Mabel and even wins for her the tournament (despite trying to stay low-key), though blowing his cower with resurrection magic is beyond how far he would go for her brother. I wonder whether he couldn't just teleport away with the body and leave just some clone. Though the resurrection might either be severely limited in time (and possibly even necessitate the same place) or even be such a flashy thing that it's virtually impossible to cover by just going somewhere remote.

Speaking of which, resurrection magic might be the worst thing to let others know about. It obviously has limitations, but will the loving wife/children/mother, etc. stomach that it needs to be done in 15s since the death and you came after 16? Or that it really doesn't work on their 99years old grandpa dying from old age? I can see millions of ways to create enemies and people trying to use/abduct him, but very few to make it work save for being backed by overwhelming personal and organizational power (and even then it's iffy).

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Seikya could absolutely have just painlessly executed the guy, we all know that. Instead he actively instigated that abomination to eat him alive, all the while listening to its sickening narration. Yeah, sorry, but that is a pretty evil act. It would make him out to be the villain of the show in almost any other show which isn't actively trying to be grimdark. Bad move on part of the writers, IMO.

His summons have obviously free will. Of course he has to sometime throw them bone and given who other person were it's hard to see that as evil act.

[magnuskn]

We got a different definition of the term, then.

I RP Pathfinder with about ten other people in two different groups. I can say with absolutely security that at least nine of them would define what happened as an evil act.

[Tenzen12]

I certainly thing it was evil act from yokai side, it's clearly evil thing. That said Mc just allowed it out of pragmatism and that's just being neutral by most standard and given spy were threat to innocent children and potentially whole human world, that puts him on good side of spectrum. Maybe you should ask your friends before talking on their behalf, they might surprise you.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I certainly thing it was evil act from yokai side, it's clearly evil thing. That said Mc just allowed it out of pragmatism and that's just being neutral by most standard and given spy were threat to innocent children and potentially whole human world, that puts him on good side of spectrum. Maybe you should ask your friends before talking on their behalf, they might surprise you.

I've known my guys for more than 25 years now. So I can be very sure that they would judge "kill an enemy spy by having him eaten alive while he is screaming for mercy" as an evil act. Killing the enemy spy is not the evil act, that is at that point a necessity. But you can snap his neck, kill him with some energy beam, etc., etc. Seika isn't lacking in options to kill someone fast without much pain and he has his summons under enough control to deny them this fucking cruel barbarity Seika actually allowed to happen. And that is why it is an evil act.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I've known my guys for more than 25 years now. So I can be very sure that they would judge "kill an enemy spy by having him eaten alive while he is screaming for mercy" as an evil act. Killing the enemy spy is not the evil act, that is at that point a necessity. But you can snap his neck, kill him with some energy beam, etc., etc. Seika isn't lacking in options to kill someone fast without much pain and he has his summons under enough control to deny them this fucking cruel barbarity Seika actually allowed to happen. And that is why it is an evil act.

We do not actually know that. The dragon did try to run away and who knows what kind of agreement Seika has with the mind reader. He might have agreed to feed him someone for every use of his power.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I've known my guys for more than 25 years now. So I can be very sure that they would judge "kill an enemy spy by having him eaten alive while he is screaming for mercy" as an evil act. Killing the enemy spy is not the evil act, that is at that point a necessity. But you can snap his neck, kill him with some energy beam, etc., etc. Seika isn't lacking in options to kill someone fast without much pain and he has his summons under enough control to deny them this fucking cruel barbarity Seika actually allowed to happen. And that is why it is an evil act.

If he did it himself or take pleasure out of it, then sure. Just letting it happen is not problem if target gonna die anyway. As for denying that Youkai devouring that spy, that's terrible idea. We already seen his summons are not necessary loyal and this one can easily screw him over. Everyone knows that stick without carrot is just disaster in waiting. And let's be honest even Lawfully good characacters (actually especially lawfully good characters) can just torture sinners or heretic and still being firmly in good territory. Seika objectivelly is oscillating between chaotic good and true neutral.

Also just ask.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

And let's be honest even Lawfully good characacters (actually especially lawfully good characters) can just torture sinners or heretic and still being firmly in good territory.

No, they bloody can't, and if a gamemaster is letting any LG character even near that kind of shit, he's a terrible GM. At least if the LG character hasn't changed alignment after doing torture (or worse, what Seika did).

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Also just ask.

Yeah, I'm gonna call up all my friends on the weekend, because "dude on the internet challenged me to". All my friends and I are nearing 50, they'd get cranky over some teen BS like that.

[grecefar]

Ushi oni looked cool, man I really like summoning, I wonder how many he has.

[Strahan]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

No idea where Mable was in any way "cocky", she has been presented as a "super serious all the time" character.

This:

Originally Posted by Rasty

I wouldn't classify her as cocky, but she certainly has the attitude of "You all are just children, only I am a proper adult." which could piss off most.

Yea, cocky is probably not the right term. Let me rephrase that... "Given her condescending attitude since she was introduced, knocking her down a peg or three would certainly be enjoyable". There, happy?

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And, just, wow about people brushing off the really gross and absolutely evil way in which the spy was executed.

You are right, it was pretty evil. However, for my part, the reason I can easily brush it off is because it's just an anime. It's hard to feel appalled at something with no consequences. Show me a video IRL of someone being thrown to the lions and eaten alive and I'd probably vomit from repulsion. But in anime, Christ, there are so SO many more f'ed up things I've seen this hardly rises to the noticeable level. Maybe I just watch more messed up stuff than you do, lol

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

And let's be honest even Lawfully good characacters (actually especially lawfully good characters) can just torture sinners or heretic and still being firmly in good territory.

I know there are characters like that, I've read in several books that are extreme on the good side. Like willing to do anything for the forces of good. But would they really still be LG then? I'd think CG would fit better in that situation. From the basic rules off the DND site:

Lawful good (LG) creatures can be counted on to do the right thing as expected by society. Gold dragons, paladins, and most dwarves are lawful good.

Neutral good (NG) folk do the best they can to help others according to their needs. Many celestials, some cloud giants, and most gnomes are neutral good.

Chaotic good (CG) creatures act as their conscience directs, with little regard for what others expect. Copper dragons, many elves, and unicorns are chaotic good.

I'd think torture wouldn't fall into the bucket of "right things expected by society". Having little regard for the expectations of others seems more like it. Of course, trying to boil morality down to nine shades is a bit of a hurdle regardless, heh.

[Rasty]

^ Speaking about paladins. Their holy magic is almost always depicted as basically bathing their evil enemy in holy light, which amounts to slow, painful death by being burned alive (from inside sometimes).

[Marina2]

If you do an 'evil' act but the society doesn't consider that an 'evil' act then you're 'good' guy.

This world seems to have high tolerance toward murder and violence after all. Seika literally said he blasted Mable brother into nothing and no one bats an eye, his friend included.

[Lex79]

Looks like Seika's attitude of not wanting to establish bonds and just use others for his gain is slowly crumbling...at least when the one involved is a nice, cute girl who is obviously going to join the harem.
He has also shown more of his real strenght, we'll see if this will have so,e consequences in giving him unwanted attention from the wrong people.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Strahan

I'd think torture wouldn't fall into the bucket of "right things expected by society". Having little regard for the expectations of others seems more like it. Of course, trying to boil morality down to nine shades is a bit of a hurdle regardless, heh.

Although some players like to think the same about the chaotic good, torture is not a thing which good characters are supposed to do. The writers of the D&D/Pathfinder settings have been pretty clear about this in the past.

Not to mention that "torture works" is stuff from fiction, not real life.

Originally Posted by Rasty

^ Speaking about paladins. Their holy magic is almost always depicted as basically bathing their evil enemy in holy light, which amounts to slow, painful death by being burned alive (from inside sometimes).

That's a stretch, to say the least. The Paladins I know (from D&D/Pathfinder, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV, etc.) fight their enemies in a kinetic way. Maybe some author of a not very well known fictional universe has them work in the way you describe, but in the most popular settings, Paladins are melee characters who augment their prowess with holy energy.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Although some players like to think the same about the chaotic good, torture is not a thing which good characters are supposed to do. The writers of the D&D/Pathfinder settings have been pretty clear about this in the past.

Not to mention that "torture works" is stuff from fiction, not real life.



That's a stretch, to say the least. The Paladins I know (from D&D/Pathfinder, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV, etc.) fight their enemies in a kinetic way. Maybe some author of a not very well known fictional universe has them work in the way you describe, but in the most popular settings, Paladins are melee characters who augment their prowess with holy energy.

In third edition Paladins at least had healing touch and some of the variant Paladins got more offensive priest spells like Searing Light. I almost think one of them might have gotten Holy Word(which is just nasty if you look at the effects) as a spell-like ability or that might have been a prestige class.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

In third edition Paladins at least had healing touch and some of the variant Paladins got more offensive priest spells like Searing Light. I almost think one of them might have gotten Holy Word(which is just nasty if you look at the effects) as a spell-like ability or that might have been a prestige class.

Probably a prestige class. Searing Light is not on the Paladin spell list, AFAIK and healing touch does just that... heal. It will damage the undead, though.