Magic and Technology of MGLN

[Nya~n]

that's like saying "i have loads of fun doing my sex doll - i'm experienced enough"?

[synaesthetic]

Everyone was a virgin once. ^^;

[Avatar_notADV]

We're talking Nanoha, right? Devices are capable of putting their users through simulated combat experiences. Nanoha spent a good amount of classroom time doing image training instead of listening to the lecture. ;p Thus, it's not impossible that Cross Mirage could have prepared Teana for something like that.

And a Nanoha device user in a combat aircraft would have a lot of advantages. For one, devices can obviously ameliorate the effects of sudden shifts in G-forces (otherwise Fate would pass out every time she fired up Sonic Move, heh.) And, frankly, Cross Mirage could easily do most of the flying part...

At the same time, combat aircraft are not as tough as mages. Relatively minor damage knocks it down in a flamin' explosion.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV

We're talking Nanoha, right? Devices are capable of putting their users through simulated combat experiences. Nanoha spent a good amount of classroom time doing image training instead of listening to the lecture. ;p Thus, it's not impossible that Cross Mirage could have prepared Teana for something like that.

And a Nanoha device user in a combat aircraft would have a lot of advantages. For one, devices can obviously ameliorate the effects of sudden shifts in G-forces (otherwise Fate would pass out every time she fired up Sonic Move, heh.) And, frankly, Cross Mirage could easily do most of the flying part...

At the same time, combat aircraft are not as tough as mages. Relatively minor damage knocks it down in a flamin' explosion.

The error in your judgement however is that just because Nanoha spent every day doing combat training simulations in her own personal phantasmorgia, does not mean that other intelligent devices have the capability to do so, or that other users do so.

In fact, I'm pretty Certain Cross Mirage does not because Tia's personal training was pointing guns at floating lights. Given her personal desire to get strong as fast as possible, if she had the option to Psych-Train the way Nanoha did, would you not think she would take it? I'd think she'd like to be running half a dozen combat simulations against a simulation of Nanoha every day in order to reach that level.

Remember, as intelligent devices go, Raising Heart is rather unique. How many devices required an absurd startup password like that?

[synaesthetic]

Raising Heart is the Super Prototype of the Nanohaverse. She's to Intelligent Devices what 00-Raiser is to mobile suits.

And no, Teana had simulator time in an actual simulator, not just image training. Cross Mirage did interface with the fighter's computer system, the same way Vice's Storm Raider interfaced with the systems of the transport helicopter.

But Teana still has to fly it, and she has 50+ hours of simulator time. Not the best circumstances, but someone needed to defend the medical transport as it left the atmosphere of Midchilda and none of the mages have shown themselves capable of flight in vacuum. So this was the plot solution.

By the way, Vita remarks upon Teana's relative inexperience in her own thoughts, so it's not wholly an asspull. ^^;

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV

(shrug) Weight issues? Full armor is heavy and restricts your movement. If a barrier jacket provides most of the protection but is only as restricting as a normal set of clothes, it's probably a superior solution.

At the end of the day, you're not going to get past "it's a magical girl show and thus the technology must accommodate cute girls in skirts in combat".

True to the second. I don't dispute there were good dramatic reasons for why they did the things they did, but claiming meta reasons always struck me as a cop out. Not to mention its a lot less fun.

For the first, the barrier jackets seem to be a powered system, like a force field. Surely having to divert energy to keep it active is a drain on mobility as well. With Nanoha and Co. power levels, that's probably a non-issue, I admit, but what about the poor schmucks back towards the middle of the bell curve?

[Keroko]

Actually, this is an issue even for the Nanoha-levels. Sonic Form is a shining example of this, as it discards almost all magic routed to defense and shunts it into speed.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Actually, this is an issue even for the Nanoha-levels. Sonic Form is a shining example of this, as it discards almost all magic routed to defense and shunts it into speed.

Although ironically, as Avatar noted, it's still protecting her against the effects of all those high-G turns--and in Sonic Form/Drive she's pulling those constantly.

[Nya~n]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Although ironically, as Avatar noted, it's still protecting her against the effects of all those high-G turns--and in Sonic Form/Drive she's pulling those constantly.

G-force cushioning and magical defence are different enough. Fate COULD keep the G-force dampening field up, but she'd be re-routing the magic normally used for the usual mage defences to speed.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Although ironically, as Avatar noted, it's still protecting her against the effects of all those high-G turns--and in Sonic Form/Drive she's pulling those constantly.

Yes, hence almost all defense. It can protect her against the forces her speed puts her in, and offers minimal protection against damage, but one decent hit and she's out.

It should also be noted that both Signum and Tre could spot this weakness of Sonic Form at first glance.

[synaesthetic]

Well, Tre and Signum are both the type of combatants that overpower their opponent, blasting through defenses to land staggering blows. They'd have to be at least that knowledgeable.

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Actually, this is an issue even for the Nanoha-levels. Sonic Form is a shining example of this, as it discards almost all magic routed to defense and shunts it into speed.

True, I'd forgotten that. Which, now that I think about it, might also explain why you need A rank to fly in combat. The total power might be there, but if it requires an unacceptable loss of protection or firepower then what's the point?

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Well, Tre and Signum are both the type of combatants that overpower their opponent, blasting through defenses to land staggering blows. They'd have to be at least that knowledgeable.

If you can hit it, you can kill it. But if you can't hit...

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Tabasco

True, I'd forgotten that. Which, now that I think about it, might also explain why you need A rank to fly in combat. The total power might be there, but if it requires an unacceptable loss of protection or firepower then what's the point?

Nah, its not that you need A-rank to be able to fly, its that you need A-rank to be able to skip basic training and go straight into flight training.

Below A-rank is still very much flight capable. B-rank is the proverbial high wall for many mages, and yet the TSAB still has a lot of flight capable redshirts to throw around.

[Avatar_notADV]

Keep in mind that while the rank system is kind of a power level thing, there's "official" tests to be certified at a given rank (we see Fate getting her AAA and Subaru and Teana going for B). You don't necessarily have to be A-rank to be able to fly, but there's a high correlation between having the ability to fly for an extended duration, and do stuff while you're airborne, and A rank. I believe it's been stated that nobody in the flying corps is less than A.

Practically, this means that it's not unreasonable for a talented B to suddenly bust out a flight spell for a short burst. But if someone can fly easily, and they're not at least A, something else is wrong (maybe they've just got some total lack of talent in another area?) It also means that as a matter of doctrine, TSAB is going to yell at people who aren't A and who go airborne regularly...

[D2]

I posed this question up at Q&A, but they skipped over it so:

What is the generally accepted baseline mage rank required for one to have enough power to create and maintain a familiar? Also, if one mage is too strained in order to easily provide constant power to a familiar, is it possible to share the flow of magic required to maintain a familiar between multiple mages? Finally, does the TSAB have a seperate Magic/Tech research branch, and what is it called? Thanks!

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by boomersooner

I posed this question up at Q&A, but they skipped over it so:

Sorry about that. I was just viewing the last page so...

What is the generally accepted baseline mage rank required for one to have enough power to create and maintain a familiar?

If memory serves me correctly, no baseline was given explicitly throughout the series.

However, if we are able to draw an assumption from examples, there is no familiar shown so far in Nanoha that does not have a powerful master. There was also a mention in the manga that having a familiar is a proof of a powerful mage or something...

Arf has Fate, Linith had Precia, the Lieze Sisters has Graham.

I'm just more or less making a wild guess here, but I think it's logical to assume that to have a familiar with any sort of viable use in combat (as they should be used, usually), you'd have to possess a reasonably high amount of magic. I'd set the baseline as Fate in Season 1 (AAA) since she's the lowest-ranked character ever shown to possess a familiar. (Precia was S-ranked, if memory serves me correctly. And I refuse to consider Graham's rank to be any lower than S, considering how powerful Aria and Lotte were. <.<)

Also, if one mage is too strained in order to easily provide constant power to a familiar, is it possible to share the flow of magic required to maintain a familiar between multiple mages?

There has been no examples shown just yet. Though personally, I think something like that is too convenient. >_>

Finally, does the TSAB have a seperate Magic/Tech research branch, and what is it called? Thanks!

I'll let the others handle this question.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by boomersooner

Finally, does the TSAB have a seperate Magic/Tech research branch, and what is it called? Thanks!

While the TSAB does seem to have an engineering branch, no name has ever been given to it, much less the R&D branch.

[al103]

I noted some (possible) mistake in one of the threads, and sadly because of blackout do not know which one was that. It was that Nove and Quint have different IS than Ginga and Subaru because of Vibration Shatter... It's not so. There is Inherent Skill and there is cyborg how-was-it-called-thingie. For Quint, Ginga and Subaru IS is Wing Road, for Nove other-name-but-same-thing. It's where cyborg upgrades go Subaru (and Ginga?) have Vibration Shatter, like other numbers have they boomerangs, BFG, shield-gun and so on things that are tweaked to that cyborg and used to enhance they effectiveness. Just for Subaru that equipment is inner, not outer.

Our at least it's so as i remember.

[Keroko]

There's a difference between IS (Inherent Skill) and IE (Inherent Equipment).

But Ginga and Subaru do seem to possess 2 IS yes.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Keroko

But Ginga and Subaru do seem to possess 2 IS yes.

Maybe. It seems more IE to me... It was said in tone as the do NOT have same IS as Quint anyway... and they do.