Do new anime fans watch older shows?

[Archon_Wing]

It's not really LNs ruining anime, but rather various fads that keep following it. Isekai is just one example. They just happen to be format of choice. Nobody's saying manga doesn't print out a lot of shit, (Heck this year, the best anime for me was a LN and the one based on a manga sucked) but for whatever reason they get less attention.

As for the real question, new anime has three advantages. One is the potential for superior visuals (though anyone that has watched Dragon Ball Super might disagree), familiarity since art style from the same era tends to have that effect, and finally and I feel most importantly, the social experience. It's just like anything where the latest and greatest is the best source of discussion since it encompasses the most people. You definitely can talk about older series, but in this modern age when everything moves so fast, it can be a lost art.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

It's not really LNs ruining anime, but rather various fads that keep following it. Isekai is just one example. They just happen to be format of choice. Nobody's saying manga doesn't print out a lot of shit, (Heck this year, the best anime for me was a LN and the one based on a manga sucked) but for whatever reason they get less attention.

As for the real question, new anime has three advantages. One is the potential for superior visuals (though anyone that has watched Dragon Ball Super might disagree), familiarity since art style from the same era tends to have that effect, and finally and I feel most importantly, the social experience. It's just like anything where the latest and greatest is the best source of discussion since it encompasses the most people. You definitely can talk about older series, but in this modern age when everything moves so fast, it can be a lost art.

So why does an LN fad deserve more attention than other manga or original anime fads. What LN fad could most people even name besides battle harem or isekai anyways? Unless people are glad to see that there are like 5 idol shows per season. 2-3 cute girl iyashikei sols. Alot more SoL school comedies. At least a mecha or three per season. But those damn LNs on the other hand...

[Archon_Wing]

People do complain about idol shows; add a few more a season and see what happens.

Of course, it doesn't help that harem is already so old hat already.

And furthermore, since LNs are relatively speaking a new thing in terms of popularity compared to things such as manga, it has more to prove. Or maybe it's actually the studios adapting them are shit, or not selective enough.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by IceHism

So why does an LN fad deserve more attention than other manga or original anime fads. What LN fad could most people even name besides battle harem or isekai anyways? Unless people are glad to see that there are like 5 idol shows per season. 2-3 cute girl iyashikei sols. Alot more SoL school comedies. At least a mecha or three per season. But those damn LNs on the other hand...

I think with LNs, some older anime fans well-remember the days of Haruhi and Shana and the Monogatari Series. Then they compare those older classic LN adaptations to more recent ones, and well... Re:Zero is thankfully an exception to this, but it'll probably take more than Re:Zero alone to change common anime fan perceptions of modern LNs.

Idol anime and cute girl iyashikei SoLs don't quite have this. In idol anime's case, it's because their more prominent titles are fairly recent. In iyashikei's case, it's because most recent ones do in fact hold up fairly well compared to K-On and Azumanga Daioh. In other words, there hasn't been a perceived quality drop-off in iyashikei, at least not that I'm aware of.

As for mecha, some of us are a little disappointed in recent mecha, wanting something more like classic older Gundam shows or Code Geass. Macross Delta also had some critics that wish it was more like older Macross shows.

As this relates to the thread topic? Watching older shows can help to explain why some people feel the way they do about current shows.


Edit: Another thing with modern LN adaptations... I think a lot of anime fans are well and truly tired of physically violent tsunderes. Some of us are just tired of that, and we kinda wish LN adaptations could quit it already and go with something a little different. This is especially true when we can look at genuinely amusing non-violent tsunderes in other recent anime, like Love Live's Maki and Bang Dream's Arisa.

This is probably another thing that helped Re:Zero, by the way. It doesn't have that physically violent tsundere in a major role right off the bat.

[Marcus H.]

I personally haven't considered older anime. Most shows do not age well.
They seem to be a worthwhile watch to those who want to know the trends of the past, though.

[SeijiSensei]

How much older is "older?" Is Seirei no Moribito (2007) outside your range? Monster (2004)?

[Marcus H.]

No, things like Arjuna (2001) or older. I dunno, the clear gap of animation styles and character design seem undesirable at points.

[Archon_Wing]

I am not sure about the aging well part. I think a lot of 90s anime has aged much better than the early 2000 and sometimes 2005-2006 too. Eg. Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragon Ball Z, Bebop, Trigun, Kenshin, and sometimes Evangelion before the budget ran out. Yes the frame rates aren't high, but the details are still vivid and people sometimes even have noses.


I mean I look back at Nanoha A's (2005), and am like dang what potato was it drawn on? Even something like Shakugan no Shana (2005/2007) or Air (2004) just feels so dated and difficult to look at now, even though it seemed fine at that time. On the other hand, the style of Haruhi (2006), True Tears (2008) or Kanon 2006 (2006) seems pretty fresh still.

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I personally haven't considered older anime. Most shows do not age well.
They seem to be a worthwhile watch to those who want to know the trends of the past, though.

While others do, for a variety of reasons.

You mention trends and I assume that includes looking for the inspirations of those who continue working in the field.

Such topics may even lead to funny moments when someone realises that something they watched obsessively during their childhood -glued to a neighbours first B/W TV- was made by the same person whose work they now admire but never associated with earlier creations in a different capacity. As an adult anime fan such details start to matter as much as what was visible on the screen back then, to some, but not to all who were present. Casual watchers.

Something like ending back at watching and talking about Ookami-shounen Ken following a karaoke session in which that series theme song was -once again- picked and became part of a conversation quite similar to this one... a teen telling her grandma that there is a direct link through Isao Takahata, who's work I'm fairly certain will stand the test of time and whose earlier collaborations will be revisited in that context, as well as for their own sake.

Have things really changed all that much, in that regard, though? Recording devices have become better and widely available but "old" fans stop watching new series too and even "at the time" there were always those who never looked back beyond what was airing on any given evening.

Some animations continue to be broadcast and in re-runs gain new audiences while others are only ever revisited by a few... Hasn't that always been the case?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I’m just glad that I’m not averse to checking out (good) older anime because it gives me new experience and broaden my horizon and knowledge as an anime-fan about past shows that pioneered, changed and shaped today's anime industry with their style of narrative and aesthetics. I like trying different things even if it’s older, as long as it's good.

For those who dismissed old shows just because they're old and look “crappy”, well… I’ll just say this to you: if you consider yourself an anime fan, you’re truly missing out, a lot. Some stuffs from the 80s & 90s are really good and many of them can no longer produced in today’s anime industry either due to budget, lack of popularity, or other strange reasons. Stuffs like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Fist of the North Star, SDF Macross, Macross 7, Berserk (handdrawn 2D), B’t X, You're Under Arrest, Rurouni Kenshin, Patlabor, Karasu Tengu Kabuto, Cyber Formula, City Hunter, super robots, etc are the type of series that you rarely (if at all) see done well today. And those are just the TV series, not counting great OVAs & Movies like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Grave of the Fireflies, GITS, etc. Heck, even the hentais from the 90s aren’t so sex-in-your-face like today’s hentais. A good number 90s hentais have actual legit stories be it drama, horror or comedy. Some even have good stories that charmed foreign audience to the point that they made a live-action movie with Samuel L. Jackson in it. Yep, Samuel L. Jackson starred in a live-action adaptation of a 90s hentai .

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I am not sure about the aging well part. I think a lot of 90s anime has aged much better than the early 2000 and sometimes 2005-2006 too. Eg. Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragon Ball Z, Bebop, Trigun, Kenshin, and sometimes Evangelion before the budget ran out. Yes the frame rates aren't high, but the details are still vivid and people sometimes even have noses.

I mean I look back at Nanoha A's (2005), and am like dang what potato was it drawn on? Even something like Shakugan no Shana (2005/2007) or Air (2004) just feels so dated and difficult to look at now, even though it seemed fine at that time. On the other hand, the style of Haruhi (2006), True Tears (2008) or Kanon 2006 (2006) seems pretty fresh still.

Agreed. 2000 - 2006 period was pretty much the "dark-age" of digital anime. Many (if not most) of the TV series just look flat and ugly. I mean, let's compare the Blu-ray images of Cardcaptor Sakura from the 90s and Chobits from the 2000s.

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Cardcaptor Sakura

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Chobits

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Surely people can tell that the image of the old CCS is more crisp than the newer Chobits.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for mecha, some of us are a little disappointed in recent mecha, wanting something more like classic older Gundam shows or Code Geass. Macross Delta also had some critics that wish it was more like older Macross shows.

Most people have no complaints for the recent Gundams. Build Fighters, Iron-Blooded Orphans, Origin and Thunderbolt are good/great stuffs. Congrats for Sunrise/Bandai for successfully reviving Gundam after two disaster named Age & G-Reco.

Macross Delta on the other hand…...

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think with LNs, some older anime fans well-remember the days of Haruhi and Shana and the Monogatari Series. Then they compare those older classic LN adaptations to more recent ones, and well... Re:Zero is thankfully an exception to this, but it'll probably take more than Re:Zero alone to change common anime fan perceptions of modern LNs.

Idol anime and cute girl iyashikei SoLs don't quite have this. In idol anime's case, it's because their more prominent titles are fairly recent. In iyashikei's case, it's because most recent ones do in fact hold up fairly well compared to K-On and Azumanga Daioh. In other words, there hasn't been a perceived quality drop-off in iyashikei, at least not that I'm aware of.

As for mecha, some of us are a little disappointed in recent mecha, wanting something more like classic older Gundam shows or Code Geass. Macross Delta also had some critics that wish it was more like older Macross shows.

As this relates to the thread topic? Watching older shows can help to explain why some people feel the way they do about current shows.


Edit: Another thing with modern LN adaptations... I think a lot of anime fans are well and truly tired of physically violent tsunderes. Some of us are just tired of that, and we kinda wish LN adaptations could quit it already and go with something a little different. This is especially true when we can look at genuinely amusing non-violent tsunderes in other recent anime, like Love Live's Maki and Bang Dream's Arisa.

This is probably another thing that helped Re:Zero, by the way. It doesn't have that physically violent tsundere in a major role right off the bat.

I don't understand the reasoning behind this post at all.

Ok let's go about this from an an international fan's perspective. I will ignore that you just said monogatari is a LN when it's not (kodansha box doesn't publish LNs) on the basis that international fans don't know any better.
I feel like your post is a jumbo of reasons that don't work together.

bakemonogatari was adapted in 2009. That's not old. It's still getting adapted. The most recent being just this january with kizumonogatari. No one's comparing any LN to monogatari when it's still being adapted because there is no reason to miss monogatari. With how disastrous the shana adaption went, i'm pretty sure most people don't miss it either nor would i say it would be a better watch than a recent ln that was also given a runtime of 72 episodes.

Next, you're not even looking at the lns in terms of trends. All you did was pick a few famous titles. I can do the same thing too. I'll take Jinrui wa suitai shimashita or oregairu which are better than both Shana or Haruhi in terms of writing. At least i could kind of understand if you picked slayers, FMP, or boogiepop but why shana or haruhi? It was pretty jarring to just read that maybe people were comparing newer LN adaptions to classic LN adaptions and then you just started talking about more general trends like iyashikei, school comedies, idols and mechas. For one, the current iteration of isekai we have now is an extremely recent thing and none of which are even in the same genre as haruhi or "monogatari". The comparison to idol anime is apt because they are both so recent.

I don't see what you mean by violent tsunderes in lns. There are violent tsunderes in every medium. I just read a manga with one today. If i went by popular lns, i don't see a violent tsundere in konosuba, oregairu, NGNL, overlord, or danmachi

[Sheba]

@ Obelisk

To be fair to today's hentai, nowadays pr0n movies also goes straight to the act. The makers figured out that people want to get on with the lewd rather than padding. Then you have the NTR subgenre...

[Marcus H.]

Originally Posted by Verso Sciolto

Such topics may even lead to funny moments when someone realises that something they watched obsessively during their childhood -glued to a neighbours first B/W TV- was made by the same person whose work they now admire but never associated with earlier creations in a different capacity. As an adult anime fan such details start to matter as much as what was visible on the screen back then, to some, but not to all who were present. Casual watchers.

There are moments like that in my anime experience. Like I was shocked that SHAFT produced Eto Rangers and J.C. Staff produced Space Warship Yamamoto Yohko. But I try to put this talk about associating anime works with certain people at second priority. To me, all that matters is whether it interests me on the spot. I might have missed tons of sleeper hits that way, but time is usually not my best friend when looking for seasonal anime to watch.

Just look at my Watching List. 37 entries, most of them delayed for god knows how long.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I’m just glad that I’m not averse to checking out (good) older anime because it gives me new experience and broaden my horizon and knowledge as an anime-fan about past shows that pioneered, changed and shaped today's anime industry with their style of narrative and aesthetics. I like trying different things even if it’s older, as long as it's good.

For those who dismissed old shows just because they're old and look “crappy”, well… I’ll just say this to you: if you consider yourself an anime fan, you’re truly missing out, a lot. Some stuffs from the 80s & 90s are really good and many of them can no longer produced in today’s anime industry either due to budget, lack of popularity, or other strange reasons.

Trust me, I'm not missing much. Just look at the shortlist you mentioned: Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Fist of the North Star, SDF Macross, Macross 7, Berserk (handdrawn 2D), B’t X, You're Under Arrest, Rurouni Kenshin, Patlabor, Karasu Tengu Kabuto, Cyber Formula, City Hunter. Bolded are shows I've watched, italicized are shows that I know enough.

I'm also not a fan of certain genres either, like super robots and sci-fi, although I do have my exposure to it—I've watched Voltes V, Daimos and Combattler V for super robots, and Bubblegum Crisis, Saber Marionette, Casshern Sins for sci-fi. I just don't immediately add them to my list when I see one. (I personally prefer urban fantasy nowadays, blame Index.)

Originally Posted by Sheba

To be fair to today's hentai, nowadays pr0n movies also goes straight to the act. The makers figured out that people want to get on with the lewd rather than padding. Then you have the NTR subgenre...

Some H-anime don't even follow the source. :x

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Stuffs like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Fist of the North Star, SDF Macross, Macross 7, Berserk (handdrawn 2D), B’t X, You're Under Arrest, Rurouni Kenshin, Patlabor, Karasu Tengu Kabuto, Cyber Formula, City Hunter, super robots, etc are the type of series that you rarely (if at all) see done well today.

Many of those series are sci-fi or have sci-fi components. Serious science-fiction seems a non-starter in today's anime world presumably because the tastes of the (Japanese) audience have changed. Production committees are simply responding to changes in demand. For a good contrast, look at the treatment of quantum physics in Noein (2006). That was hardly scientifically-accurate, but it was a lot closer to theory than the absurd version of quantum mechanics presented in the most recent episode of Demi-chan.

I'd be curious where the Sakura and Chobits screen shots came from. Are they from remasters of the originals? According to ANN, the most recent North American release of Chobits is simply a collection of the original DVDs. CCS was remastered for a Blu-ray release in 2014. I'd argue this difference has more to do with the clarity of those images than the age of the series. For a good explanation of why older series on DVD can look crappy today, see this column by Justin Sevakis: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answ...-03-13/.113237

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I don't understand the reasoning behind this post at all.

Ok let's go about this from an an international fan's perspective. I will ignore that you just said monogatari is a LN when it's not (kodansha box doesn't publish LNs)

Wiki and MAL both disagree with you. And Wiki mentions Kodansha Box. So I'd appreciate it if you elaborated on just why the Monogatari Series shouldn't be considered LNs.

bakemonogatari was adapted in 2009. That's not old.

Yes it is old. That's 8 years ago. That's old in the fast-paced anime world. This very thread speaks to how fast-paced that anime world is.

With how disastrous the shana adaption went, i'm pretty sure most people don't miss it

There's plenty of people who loved the Shana anime, including myself. It's second season had some issues, but it's first and final seasons were both pretty well-received.

Next, you're not even looking at the lns in terms of trends.

Archon_Wing already covered that nicely. So I was building off what he had wrote. These recent LN trends cause issues partly because older LNs weren't like this. That's a big part of my point. Shana is very magical/mysterious urban fantasy with a very carefully constructed lore-rich setting. Haruhi had a strong serious sci-fi edge, particularly in its handling of time travel. Both feel distinct from each other, and from most other LNs.

A lot of more recent LNs feel much more cookie-cutter in comparison, at least in my experience/opinion, particularly in how they handle their world settings. I remember Fall 2015 when Chivalry of a Failed Knight and The Asterisk War both came out as anime adaptations. I was amazed at just how similar their respective first episodes were.

Idol anime is pretty focused itself, sure. But unlike LNs, it doesn't have a very diverse history of prominent titles (by all means, include FMP and The Slayers as well). So recent trends in LNs are disappointing to some anime fans since we remember when the LN genre/medium had strong diversity and range.

In other words, there's no particular reason why modern LNs should be almost defined by modern-style isekai and harem romcom. Idol anime is, well, idol anime. So of course people would expect J-Pop idols/music and its surrounding subculture to be a big part of any idol anime. But light novels are a medium form.

[Archon_Wing]

Personally, I remember the shitty half baked imouto fad for a bit but I'm not sure how widespread it was. It was pretty intense in being shit though.

And Monogatari was indeed old hat. I don't see nearly as much discussion, and hell I wasn't even aware something from it aired in 2016 when it showed up in the awards. That's just how things go.

Also lol @ Shana being a failure. Because it totally bombed and couldn't afford another season to finish it. "Urusai Urusai Urusai" was never a meme and Shana wasn't plastered everywhere in 2005 -2007 and Kugrie never voiced an army of tsundere clones. And we all know novels generally aren't voiced, right? The only reason why Season 3 did poorly was because it was aired so many years later. And nobody remembers that season 3 was actually pretty brisk compared to its former seasons. And then there was that fairly concise movie.... And the whole thing got dubbed over here in the United States.

I have noticed that the internet seems to be incredibly tunnel visioned in that regards, and the metric of faithfulness of adaptation is one that "most people" share. When reality does not necessarily go by it. Obviously when the adaptation is totally off, the bad press will show. But you have things like Little Busters, (Hey, everyone fling their poo at JC staff) that get panned for a number of legitimate and not-so-legitimate reasons and that shit still sells and gets localized abroad. I mean it's a terrifying aspect when an anime I don't like (Kuzu no Honkai) isn't immediately considered a failure, but that's life.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Trust me, I'm not missing much. Just look at the shortlist you mentioned: Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Fist of the North Star, SDF Macross, Macross 7, Berserk (handdrawn 2D), B’t X, You're Under Arrest, Rurouni Kenshin, Patlabor, Karasu Tengu Kabuto, Cyber Formula, City Hunter. Bolded are shows I've watched, italicized are shows that I know enough.

lel. It's obviously not exhaustive. Naturally back then had a pile of trash to sift through too.

The year is 2030. Someone asks to pine a similar list of things worth watching for the year 2016.

How long would that list be? Despite having more anime available.

Hell, for the 2010s, I would only imagine Madoka, Steins;Gate, and the Fate franchise to get any mention by most. And newcomers probably wouldn't view them as that much as by that time their novel concepts won't be. Of course, people that have some degree of mass behind their eyes would know better and actually dig a little. Or not. You really think you could really just recommend people stuff like Aldnoah Zero, or Oreimo in that time? Or even 5 years from now? You know (and I hope you know) there's other stuff to represent this decade.

Nobody is suggesting it's a good idea to pull into the garbage and dust off some obscure old anime. The idea is to pick proper niche anime and give it a chance.

Originally Posted by Sheba

@ Obelisk

To be fair to today's hentai, nowadays pr0n movies also goes straight to the act. The makers figured out that people want to get on with the lewd rather than padding. Then you have the NTR subgenre...

This is true. Pr0n has gotten better over the years and appeals to a wider audience. NTR is still bad and people should feel bad of course.

On a side note about old ass cartoons, I've been exposed to the older (and more violent) incarnations of Looney Toons. Apparently you shouldn't fuck with Bugs Bunny. Was pretty amusing.

[Marcus H.]

Nobody is suggesting it's a good idea to pull into the garbage and dust off some obscure old anime. The idea is to pick proper niche anime and give it a chance.

I'll do that, but allow me to finish the really long anime from my list.
I'm already struggling with Gintama alone.

[Archon_Wing]

Well to be fair I watch like 1 show a season or less. But I just wanted to talk about aging and yes a lot of stuff doesn't age well yes. But considering ut is another story. Not actually telling anyone myst watch something. I've blocked people for less.

[Verso Sciolto]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

I'll do that, but allow me to finish the really long anime from my list.
I'm already struggling with Gintama alone.

... just a brief note in reply to this, to say that I responded out of curiosity more than with the intention to persuade you. I consider the OP answered, before the thread even got underway. I think Darthtabby answered their own OP question in the OP and indicated being aware of doing so in the OP as well. Some "new" to anime go back in time, while others do not. In your case it sounds like the reasons why you don't watch as many older series is a combination of time restraints and aesthetics ... but you're not, in principle, averse to checking something out that sounds or looks interesting to you.

The comments in this thread, my own included, have been mostly anecdotal, I think, and what you wrote in your earlier reply to me was indeed what I had in mind. I think such considerations do compel "some" people to check out older series. Curiosity about trends, curiosity about the older work of admired animators and story tellers ... That can also work across studios and personalities. Yesterday I asked at a few, brick & mortar, places and got some anecdotal confirmation that interest in "In this Corner of the World" had sparked interest in similar stories as well. This had resulted in a modest increase in inquiries, including from people too young to have been alive "at the time". They were asked about such titles as "Grave of the Fireflies" and "Barefoot Gen" according to the people behind the counter at a video-book rental/store and the library... Some, but not all, took home the suggested titles...

... not specifically about those titles but "old" anime fans can't be persuaded to watch or re-watch "certain" older series either. Never that interested to begin with, dropped it while airing, can't believe I sat through that, once was enough, etc ... Predicting which series will become classics for future generations is arguably as murky a science as predicting which titles will appeal to a "Let's watch something old" crowd.

It is interesting that you chose to respond here at all, given how much Gintama there is and how little time you have at your disposal... and that was a joke ... in case you were wondering.

[Marcus H.]

I'm sure I answered those because I'm once again confronting my ever-expanding anime list. Whether that is on-topic or not is up to everyone.

... not specifically about those titles but "old" anime fans can't be persuaded to watch or re-watch "certain" older series either. Never that interested to begin with, dropped it while airing, can't believe I sat through that, once was enough, etc ... Predicting which series will become classics for future generations is arguably as murky a science as predicting which titles will appeal to a "Let's watch something old" crowd.

This I agree, though.
If they do become interested in older anime, newer anime fans are doing this for entirely different reasons than older fans.