Dies Irae/Kajiri Kamui Kagura/Paradise Lost/Senshinkan series

[UchihaBeast]

Ootake had taken fatal damage from the repeated battles with Yakou, that's all.

He didn't go all out against Yakou at the start else he would have won.

The reason why they could revive over and over is that they both represent concept of death and ending. Thus, they are able to terminate even the concept of death itself. However, because they are of similar power levels, even Ootake will take some damage after a prolonged fight (the cracks spreading through his Law/body)

Yakou got revived by Hajun after being perma-killed by Ootake's face of doom. Yakou cannot withstand that at all since it's Ootake's actual form and directly draws off Ren's Taikyouku ability.


Yup....Bey and Shirou beat each other to a pulp (unleashing their pent up desires for each other since Dies lol)

Shirou's Malignant Tumor Apoptosis nerfs only supernatural entities. Thus if you are a human, it would nerf Shirou himself down to human levels instead. Thus why it degenerated into a pure fistfight.
yeah =))
very lol Bey and Shirou =))
and then Tokoyo sacrifies to revive Yatou's Body
thus creating a fight between Yatou and Habaki
How did Habaki defeat Yatou anyway?
If Yatou Stop time and then kill Habaki, isn't it over already?
btw: Just coming back from vacation so long time no see =))

[Cosmic Eagle]

Habaki won by Hajun boost + Tumor feedback

All of them did, else they are less than flies to Yatou

[erneiz_hyde]

There's also the fact that Habaki's ability is to essentially regenerate. He keeps reviving because his wish is "to live".

[AkitoW013]

Without Hajun and Amaterasu, Habaki would have simply died, he's less than nothing compared to hadou gods.

[shmaster]

https://twitter.com/masada_takashi/status/472605766239522816
https://twitter.com/masada_takashi/status/472711938254721024
https://twitter.com/masada_takashi/status/472715465865699329
https://twitter.com/masada_takashi/status/472717056651960321

Masada has sank deeper and deeper.
This is some very very good signs.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Sometimes, I wonder if he isn't actually ouright spamming @@

[Darkking]

Hello, can I ask you a few questions about this interesting universe?
How big? More than one of the multiverse?
Is there something like the higher dimensions, as in Umineko or Tenchi?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Multiple (At least 5) infinite multiverses (Each Hadou God is an infinite multiverse)

Yes, it's multidimensional by definition

[AkitoW013]

Multiple (At least 5) infinite multiverses (Each Hadou God is an infinite multiverse)

Yes, it's multidimensional by definition

Isn't it 4 infinite multiverses (Snake, Marie, Hajun, Amaterasu)?

If we don't count Dai Ichi Ten, Dai Ni Ten and Nerose who are 1 single universe + Ren and Beast who didn't take the Throne.

[shmaster]

The Beast count by being Snake's Apoptosis.
Apoptosis by definition is identical in scale to its original.

Hajun is the questionable one. As he is making the universe shrink.

[Darkking]

Multiple (At least 5) infinite multiverses (Each Hadou God is an infinite multiverse)

Yes, it's multidimensional by definition
Clearly, thanks. It seems that the universe is very strong.
What abilities has Sojiro Mibu? What are his feats? And how quickly he moves?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Isn't it 4 infinite multiverses (Snake, Marie, Hajun, Amaterasu)?

If we don't count Dai Ichi Ten, Dai Ni Ten and Nerose who are 1 single universe + Ren and Beast who didn't take the Throne.

5 If you include Ren. Hadou means he still fills the whole space despite not being Throne God

[kittybear]

What abilities has Sojiro Mibu?

He can cut anything. Pretty much sums it up.:heh:


What are his feats? And how quickly he moves?

What speed feat are we talking about? Are you talking about pre-godhood feats?
IIRC Pre-godhood everyone was they were trading blows in 1/10000 of a second during the Gozen Match, dodge lightning(Morei) and shit.

Otherwise speed feats becomes irrelevant if he is a Gudou god since he easily just cuts the concepts of speed, distance, universes and other concepts that I didn't mention otherwise this post would never end:heh:.

Me, you, the gods* or devas or spirits or whatever, other people, plants, animals, rocks, time, space, concepts, existence, non-existence, civilization of both humans and alien, dirt, the ocean, stars, planets, electrons, everything, they're all a part of the all encompassing divine reality which is a Hadou/Gudou God.
*Things that can be considered godly/gods inside those universe.

To fight a Hadou/Godou you don't need BIGGA DAKKA and reality warping because that nothing to them. What you need is to be able to define what reality warping and defend that definition, otherwise their Atziluth/Taikyoku(20~30ish) is going to perfectly lolnope everything you can throw at them regardless of the scale of the attack.

Their battles are conceptual rather than physical in nature. You can have a character that could summon and infinite versions of himself who each summons an infinite amount attacks, can easily be dispatched by a God by blowing/poisoning/killing the concept of infinite probabilities or infinity or multiverse...Shiori...rendering abilities that require those concepts to function moot.

If a character doesn't have the ability to create xxx-concept they're shit out of luck challenging a Shinza's Gods, because killing, destroying and overwriting those concepts are just the passive ability of their Atziluth/Taikyoku.

Trying to measure Shinza god's powers using how many infinite multiverse, 'tardverses and derpverse is pointless. You can have as many ______verses but if they have a Takyoku value of 1...Legion!Spinne can easily destroy those ______verse by merely existing.

:heh: Spinne confirmed to be the final boss of the series :heh:

[AkitoW013]

He even won against Lord Heydrich in a game. :D :D :D

[Darkking]

He can cut anything. Pretty much sums it up.:heh:


What speed feat are we talking about? Are you talking about pre-godhood feats?
IIRC Pre-godhood everyone was they were trading blows in 1/10000 of a second during the Gozen Match, dodge lightning(Morei) and shit.

Otherwise speed feats becomes irrelevant if he is a Gudou god since he easily just cuts the concepts of speed, distance, universes and other concepts that I didn't mention otherwise this post would never end:heh:.

Oh my God ..
This is cheating! How to fight with him?!:twitch:
What about durability? He will be able to survive the impact that destroys the universe? (Before he became Gudou God and after.)

[Cosmic Eagle]

He can cut anything. Pretty much sums it up.:heh:


What speed feat are we talking about? Are you talking about pre-godhood feats?
IIRC Pre-godhood everyone was they were trading blows in 1/10000 of a second during the Gozen Match, dodge lightning(Morei) and shit.

Otherwise speed feats becomes irrelevant if he is a Gudou god since he easily just cuts the concepts of speed, distance, universes and other concepts that I didn't mention otherwise this post would never end:heh:.

Me, you, the gods* or devas or spirits or whatever, other people, plants, animals, rocks, time, space, concepts, existence, non-existence, civilization of both humans and alien, dirt, the ocean, stars, planets, electrons, everything, they're all a part of the all encompassing divine reality which is a Hadou/Gudou God.
*Things that can be considered godly/gods inside those universe.

To fight a Hadou/Godou you don't need BIGGA DAKKA and reality warping because that nothing to them. What you need is to be able to define what reality warping and defend that definition, otherwise their Atziluth/Taikyoku(20~30ish) is going to perfectly lolnope everything you can throw at them regardless of the scale of the attack.

Their battles are conceptual rather than physical in nature. You can have a character that could summon and infinite versions of himself who each summons an infinite amount attacks, can easily be dispatched by a God by blowing/poisoning/killing the concept of infinite probabilities or infinity or multiverse...Shiori...rendering abilities that require those concepts to function moot.

If a character doesn't have the ability to create xxx-concept they're shit out of luck challenging a Shinza's Gods, because killing, destroying and overwriting those concepts are just the passive ability of their Atziluth/Taikyoku.

Trying to measure Shinza god's powers using how many infinite multiverse, 'tardverses and derpverse is pointless. You can have as many ______verses but if they have a Takyoku value of 1...Legion!Spinne can easily destroy those ______verse by merely existing.

:heh: Spinne confirmed to be the final boss of the series :heh:

20-30 is low end Tenma level BTW....

At their max, Tenma are 100 by Legion ability

Gudou Gods are in 60s range

Hadou is from 70 onwards

[Cosmic Eagle]

Oh my God ..
This is cheating! How to fight with him?!:twitch:
What about durability? He will be able to survive the impact that destroys the universe? (Before he became Gudou God and after.)

By crushing him with sheer spiritual mass (which is what Hadou Gods do). Or have conceptual defence against cutting

[Darkking]

Clear.
I heard Hajun is almighty. He was defeated? How?
And what happened to Ren in the KKK? Why did he become Yato?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Clear.
I heard Hajun is almighty. He was defeated? How?
And what happened to Ren in the KKK? Why did he become Yato?

By hitting him at his weak point (his shame at his own brother) which nerfed him down to manageable levels

Ren became Yatou from the long fight against Hajun. He is basically holding out by a thread and half-mad from the effort by that point.

[erneiz_hyde]

Part of that is by attacking Hajun's concept of self. Hajun became so strong because of his absolute concept of himself. Keishiro made a crack in that concept, which weakens Hajun more than he realized.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Ah yeah that too....

Bey's moment of plot-induced godliness. But well seeing as the one who made him that way technically is Naraka's marionette...guess it can be handwaved away.

[AkitoW013]

Speaking of Naraka, what happened to him during Hajun's Reign?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Speaking of Naraka, what happened to him during Hajun's Reign?

Well....He is part of the Throne....and the Throne was about to be erased by Hajun

So he managed to outmaneuvre Hajun through Shirou at the last?

[Darkking]

Why Hajun so much stronger than others?
What is a Throne? This is Ultimate Reality? (Hinduism)

[Cosmic Eagle]

Why Hajun so much stronger than others?
What is a Throne? This is Ultimate Reality? (Hinduism)

Throne is the device that forms the hub of existence in Shinza verse.

It will continully seek out and conquer other uni/multiverses to bring under its rule and it'll do so until all of reality is incorporated into it.

The Throne God is the Hadou God who currently holds the position of being in charge of the Throne and thus is effectively God of all reality.






Hajun....you must see his nature. He's a Hadou God with the strongest ego and thus the most concentrated Gudou core ever.

This gives him the ability to by default, set his Taikyouku rank as being higher than any opponent...meaning his Taikyouku value is infinite and always increasing without limit.

His desire is basically "Everything not me ceases to exist" and is powered by a core of "ME ME ME ME"

And the reason he is so strong? Because of his soul quality that was made that way by Naraka to destroy the Tasogare that threatened him. Obviously the plan horribly backfired.

[erneiz_hyde]

Remind me how Snake was able to win against this guy again? :heh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Remind me how Snake was able to win against this guy again? :heh:

Well Hajun was depowered at the time....

[erneiz_hyde]

Well Hajun was depowered at the time....
By what? Wasn't he supposed to be at his strongest when he's after the Tasogare the first time?

[Kirayuki]

He didn't have Tumor anymore inside him at that moment after the Tumor being released from him by Marie.

[erneiz_hyde]

Oh yeah. The cast detected the source of his anger and took that away, depowering him.

[UchihaBeast]

Just finish Yakou and Ryuusui route....
And I can't understand from when Yakou Accessing the Old World, Know about Ren,Heydrich , Mercurius and Marie
and who is Naraka?
What are the golden image of Marie, Ren ,Heydrich ,mercurius ,etc means
I read that Hajun "step" on Marie , cut Mercurius into half , etc
Just can't understand @@

[Cosmic Eagle]

He's basically accessing the past history of the Throne

[UchihaBeast]

He's basically accessing the past history of the Throne
yup
But I really don't understand much about it:confused:

[Cosmic Eagle]

yup
But I really don't understand much about it:confused:

Which parts? Or rather what do you not understand about that sequence?

[UchihaBeast]

when Hajun did something to the DI cast like "step" on Marie, but no scream from Marie
or "cut" Heydrich in half ,....

[Cosmic Eagle]

when Hajun did something to the DI cast like "step" on Marie, but no scream from Marie
or "cut" Heydrich in half ,....

It was the replay of the battle in which the Dies world got obliterated by Hajun

That was basically what happened then...so yes, he did literally crush the Tasogare into non-existence



The only survivor of that are Ren and those he managed to save with his Time Stop/Legion ability. They obviously became Yatsukahagi

[UchihaBeast]

and what is Yatsukahagi?
who's Naraka?
and why is the Kyogetsu cursed? I know that the Incest couple is Bey and his sister
but I don't get why the people in KKK (not the cast) hate the Kyogetsu

[Cosmic Eagle]

and what is Yatsukahagi?
who's Naraka?
and why is the Kyogetsu cursed? I know that the Incest couple is Bey and his sister
but I don't get why the people in KKK (not the cast) hate the Kyogetsu

Yatsukahagi are the Tenma. Yatsukahagi is the name of their faction


Naraka is the Observer who pulls the strings behind the Throne. He is Dai Ichi Ten's lover and when the Throne was made, he incorporated himself into it as its "admin"

Curse? You refer to the distortion that arose from Anna's influence, or the shadow from their past in the Dies world? If you mean the former, then the Magatsuki power comes from Anna's distortion that's spreading across the KKK cast's homeland

If the latter, then well....Bey and Helga did not exactly have a very healthy past. To keep relying on their vampiric powers is to admit that even now, they are still like their old selves....shackled and not their own free persons

[UchihaBeast]

It's the former
Magatsuki, what's that?

[Cosmic Eagle]

It's the former
Magatsuki, what's that?

Magatsuki is the name of their power in the initial stages.

It allows a form of fate control, diverting ill fortune onto others to protect the bearers in times of crisis or averting disaster meant for oneself. At the end of the day, the bearer comes out unscathed.

[erneiz_hyde]

Btw, if I remember and understand it right, Numahime being the source of the distortion meant that the source of most of the KKK cast's powers also originated from her right? I think I remember that she used Soujirou and Shiori's abilities. A bit like how most of Dies cast's power sources were originally from the Relics. Some sort of "trigger".

[Cosmic Eagle]

Btw, if I remember and understand it right, Numahime being the source of the distortion meant that the source of most of the KKK cast's powers also originated from her right? I think I remember that she used Soujirou and Shiori's abilities. A bit like how most of Dies cast's power sources were originally from the Relics. Some sort of "trigger".

That's right...the initial powers came from Anna

Remember how she used the same attacks back on Soujiro and wiped out part of Eboshi-dono's fleet


*honestly...sometimes it's hard to remember that Eboshi-dono had an entire army and naval fleet with her....*

[shmaster]

*honestly...sometimes it's hard to remember that Eboshi-dono had an entire army and naval fleet with her....*

You can't help it, as they serve close no purpose there but to get "polluted" by Eboshi-dono.

[Cosmic Eagle]

You can't help it, as they serve close no purpose there but to get "polluted" by Eboshi-dono.

No, they serve as fodder.....

Thousands of men dying but all you see are the main cast swaggering around through the battlefield.


But really, even Kemono-dono's Wehrmacht had more role to play than them....since by his Legion ability they ARE actually capable of doing damage...

[hyl]

Senshinkan is getting a vita port next month, which is oddly very fast

[Cosmic Eagle]

Senshinkan is getting a vita port next month, which is oddly very fast

There will be no new content in this port though....you are better off with the PC version

[Darkking]

What is Metsujin Messo? (I hope I spelled correctly)

[Cosmic Eagle]

What is Metsujin Messo? (I hope I spelled correctly)

One of Hajun's powers under his Tengu Dou Law

[erneiz_hyde]

It's the fundamental principle of his law. It roughly means "Everything is destroyed, leaving only me".

Edit:
Btw, I've been wondering about Senshinkan.

How strong would Mizuki exactly be if she unleashed her full powers no holds barred? Being able to (nearly) touch Araya without being a Rosei is a pretty godly feat.

[Cosmic Eagle]

He seems to use it as an actual attack though....Like Muryou Taisuu

[Darkking]

In advance, sorry for so many questions.
What is Kamunagara? For what it is?
What abilities have Yakou Madara?

[AkitoW013]

Kamunagara are products of Hadou ability.

Because the Tenma are part of Ren's Legion, they are part of his Hadou.

Gudou Gods like Eboshi-dono's crew do not have them.


Essentially, the Kamunagara is a metaphor for the Hadou power and influence stretching through the space.

So when they got hit by the Kamunagara, it's not the Kamunagara itself damaging them but the Hadou ability that they represent that is doing the damage.


Think of the Kamunagara as a representative image more than anything else.


The actual uni/multiverse contained within and the conceptual Law that comprises the actual attack, is the Hadou ability. Not the Kamunagara





LOL

Naga used "SEQUERE NATURAM!"

It's SUPER EFFECTIVE

Here for you.

[erneiz_hyde]

Madara Yakou's ability was at first literally blank. He achieved Taikyoku without having a definite desire (this is caused by Hajun if I understand correctly). He is the singularity hole among humans. He always looks at the world through his taikyoku, and this makes him nearly all-seeing, all-knowing, and almighty (as long as it complies with the rules of the universe) hence the third eye.

He set off with the rest of the cast to find himself the desire that he is lacking. And found it he did, later on after a fight with Machina. He basically became a death god, similar to Machina. However, because this taikyoku is originally Hajun's, he lost it when Hajun took it back.

Later, through Ryuusui's taikyoku, Yakou reclaimed his abilities, only this time, he doesn't deal death, but watch over the world after death.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Yeah, Hajun gave him his Taikyouku.

He's basically Hajun's shit cleaner

[UchihaBeast]

Ryuusui Taikyoku is what?
Like reviving him back from the death ?

[erneiz_hyde]

Ryuusui = Suzumiya Haruhi.

Basically her taikyoku makes everything around her exactly as she wishes.

Good thing she herself doesn't realize this :heh:

Also, Yakou is originally a product of Ryuusui's Taikyoku (Yakou had no memories prior to meeting Ryuusui, and rightly so, because he was the product of the little girl's imagination! ), but Hajun hijacked him and made him his sensory.

[UchihaBeast]

=))
So that makes her a Hadou God?
I can't distinguise what is a Hadou type and Gudou type
I don't understand the inwardly and outwardly

[erneiz_hyde]

Normally, yeah, that desire should've make her a Hadou god. But her wish is actually a distorted form of self-love, "the characters that I made in my story are all great". And, the way she materialize her desire is to make the effort to be fit with her ideal.

[UchihaBeast]

so that means she's a Gudou god?
so what is the diffenrence between Hadou and Gudou
like Ren Overturne and Finale in Dies Irae
I don't know what the differences in the abilities and the desire @@

[Cosmic Eagle]

Ryuusui = Suzumiya Haruhi.

Basically her taikyoku makes everything around her exactly as she wishes.

Good thing she herself doesn't realize this :heh:

Also, Yakou is originally a product of Ryuusui's Taikyoku (Yakou had no memories prior to meeting Ryuusui, and rightly so, because he was the product of the little girl's imagination! ), but Hajun hijacked him and made him his sensory.

Ryuusui's Taikyouku is like the weakest though....

so that means she's a Gudou god?
so what is the diffenrence between Hadou and Gudou
like Ren Overturne and Finale in Dies Irae
I don't know what the differences in the abilities and the desire @@

Hadou forces it's rules on the world around it. Gudou concentrates on the user

[erneiz_hyde]

Ryuusui's Taikyouku is like the weakest though....
Yes, but I don't feel that makes sense. At the very least I think she should be at the same level with Yakou.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Yes, but I don't feel that makes sense. At the very least I think she should be at the same level with Yakou.

But Yakou has a Hajun boost...as in he explicitly was the one that Hajun focused most on

[erneiz_hyde]

But Yakou has a Hajun boost...as in he explicitly was the one that Hajun focused most on
That was then. What about at the end?

[Cosmic Eagle]

That was then. What about at the end?

Hmm...perhaps it is due to him being the only one other than the Tumor to really grasp the nature of the Throne?

[erneiz_hyde]

Somehow I don't find that very likely. Perhaps it's because she doesn't realize she has that ability so it registers much lower than it should be. Or perhaps her rank extends to a different imaginary axis or something.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Different axis is not likely. Being Gudou she's still only her own soul.

Taikyouku rank depends a lot on soul quality/quantity.


But if it's because she's unaware...yes, that is possible.

[Kirayuki]

It should be obvious that her low power value is given to put a restraint on her power, considering its nature it's one of the type that can break the game. If anything, I consider her power as plot-device for resolving several plot threads that revolves around Yakou. No need to take it seriously by comparing her to other players in the game.

[Cosmic Eagle]

It should be obvious that her low power value is given to put a restraint on her power, considering its nature it's one of the type that can break the game. If anything, I consider her power as plot-device for resolving several plot threads that revolves around Yakou. No need to take it seriously by comparing her to other players in the game.

What's there to break? She's still Gudou. No way she will be stronger than Satanel or even Dai Ichi Ten

[Kirayuki]

That's the problem. Its nature is quite ambiguous and borderline of both sides, even if we assume she only focused things around her it still technically outside. I'm sure Masada doesn't want to cause any inconsistency or plot-hole with her power since it's easy to happen, which is why she never actually have any real fight with that power and thus set up so the story will make it she never realize its true potential.

The value is there to prevent people thinking she can go against the stronger player who have higher value.

[Cosmic Eagle]

That's the problem. Its nature is quite ambiguous and borderline of both sides, even if we assume she only focused things around her it still technically outside. I'm sure Masada doesn't want to cause any inconsistency or plot-hole with her power since it's easy to happen, which is why she never actually have any real fight with that power and thus set up so the story will make it she never realize its true potential.

The value is there to prevent people thinking she can go against the stronger player who have higher value.

You know.....

All the Old World Gudou powers except White Anna and Valerian are capable of affecting their "outside" to some extent. Beatrice, Kei, Kai, Machina etc.

Just consider Ryuusui an extension of that rather than a flat out Hadou scale reality warper.

[Kirayuki]

They are "touch/see/make contact with them and you will receive the punishment" type, and they are acceptable because there is a definite bound on what their effective range can be.

Ryusui ? I don't think so. If she want the world she lives in have all man to have the same face as Yakou, nobody can stop her. Thankfully with her low value, we can assume she couldn't do that.

Besides, the original discussion was about why she is lower than someone like Yakou. My mention of "breaking the game" is more about the world of Hajun, where everyone is a Gudou. Just like with power value, the whole idea of "Hadou will always beat the Gudou" is placed by Masada as another rule so it's pretty obvious who gonna win if she fight against Hadou Gods.

[Cosmic Eagle]

They are "touch/see/make contact with them and you will receive the punishment" type, and they are acceptable because there is a definite bound on what their effective range can be.

Ryusui ? I don't think so. If she want the world she lives in have all man to have the same face as Yakou, nobody can stop her. Thankfully with her low value, we can assume she couldn't do that.

Besides, the original discussion was about why she is lower than someone like Yakou. My mention of "breaking the game" is more about the world of Hajun, where everyone is a Gudou. Just like with power value, the whole idea of "Hadou will always beat the Gudou" is placed by Masada as another rule so it's pretty obvious who gonna win if she fight against Hadou Gods.

She would be going up against others stronger than her whom her ability would just bounce off though.

I mean, even if her soul quality is somehow in the level of a Hadou and there was no "Hadou beats Gudou" concept in the first place, can you see her beating say...Ren without some serious explanation?

[UchihaBeast]

Ryuusui's Taikyouku is like the weakest though....



Hadou forces it's rules on the world around it. Gudou concentrates on the user
So like Ren 's Finale, It stops time of the environment(and people) around it ?
how did Machina, Samiel and Wolfgang manage to move?
and Ren's Overturne, it's Gudou so it stops Ren's time?

[Cosmic Eagle]

So like Ren 's Finale, It stops time of the environment(and people) around it ?
how did Machina, Samiel and Wolfgang manage to move?
and Ren's Overturne, it's Gudou so it stops Ren's time?

Ryusui makes what she wants to happen, happen.


The Three Captains were on the same level as Finale Ren. Although even Zamiel could not overcome it.

Yes. It makes Ren timeless in a sense so he is faster than everything else

[UchihaBeast]

Ryusui makes what she wants to happen, happen.


The Three Captains were on the same level as Finale Ren. Although even Zamiel could not overcome it.

Yes. It makes Ren timeless in a sense so he is faster than everything else
So that means the Three Captains are strong enough to overcome it, except for Zamiel in the first battle
and Gudou makes him timeless so in a moment, he can be faster than anythingelse?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Yes. He can speed up or slow down his own time

And yes, do not confuse Finale with Also Sprach Zarathustra

[UchihaBeast]

Yes. He can speed up or slow down his own time

And yes, do not confuse Finale with Also Sprach Zarathustra
Also Sprach Zarathustra
I remember when Ren first achived it in Rea Route, the Three Captains except Machina frozened => Wolfgang and Samiel got his and her head off
then Ren fight Machina but Ren is faster so he won that fight '3'

[Cosmic Eagle]

Yeah....that is the Atziluth


And that Zarathustra is super watered down compared to the actual one in KKK

[UchihaBeast]

Yeah....that is the Atziluth


And that Zarathustra is super watered down compared to the actual one in KKK
so what is the differences between the two Zarathustra and between the fake with Final @@

[Cosmic Eagle]

so what is the differences between the two Zarathustra and between the fake with Final @@

Not fake....just that


You think Ren as a fresh Hadou God can compare with Yatou? It's telling that Machina can still move in the early form of Zarathustra

[UchihaBeast]

oh
So Machina can't move in the complete form of Zarathustra?
and what's the diffence between Finale and Zarathustra?

[shmaster]

It is indefinite delay of time vs. time actually stops for real.

In other words, Ren still can't break the speed of light in Finale.
While he pretty much play the concept of time like a toy in Zarathustra.

[Cosmic Eagle]

That and Zarathustra is an actual Legion making Hadou..

[Kirayuki]

I mean, even if her soul quality is somehow in the level of a Hadou and there was no "Hadou beats Gudou" concept in the first place, can you see her beating say...Ren without some serious explanation?

Blame the nature of her power, really. All of those restrictions are there and they made her allowed to have that kind of power in the first place. It's almost as ridiculous as Hajun's greed honestly if you just take the description of them without any context.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Blame the nature of her power, really. All of those restrictions are there and they made her allowed to have that kind of power in the first place. It's almost as ridiculous as Hajun's greed honestly if you just take the description of them without any context.

Hajun's ego isn't ridiculous....it defines him...Rysui is a dirty cell of Hajun so of course she'll be like him...

[erneiz_hyde]

Say, I've been thinking. If Masada continues the Shinza series, would he continue from KKK or Rea route?

[shmaster]

Say, I've been thinking. If Masada continues the Shinza series, would he continue from KKK or Rea route?

It'll be KKK, he say he didn't have the guts to do Rea route.
Doing Rea route meaning destroy another good end in Dies, and probably in an even nastier way because it'll be Naraka's direct retaliation this time.

[erneiz_hyde]

What drives Naraka out of his shell like that?

[kittybear]

Who's the Hadou god that ruled the Shortest? I can't help but think of Hajun.


Ryusui ? I don't think so. If she want the world she lives in have all man to have the same face as Yakou, nobody can stop her. Thankfully with her low value, we can assume she couldn't do that.


Oh hell no! The local Marguerite Otaku won't let that shit fly. He's not going to let some Yakou-Otaku bring those disgusting things on his own turf.

Mercurius battling/comparing is Marguerite collectibles to Ryuusui Yakou collectibles.

:uhoh:*The greatest battle of our time: Marguerite collectables vs Yakou-collectibles* :uhoh:

It'll be KKK, he say he didn't have the guts to do Rea route.
Doing Rea route meaning destroy another good end in Dies, and probably in an even nastier way because it'll be Naraka's direct retaliation this time.

Personally I'd like to see a Continuation of Rea route, because the next game would feel empty without Mercurius' antics and monologues.


What drives Naraka out of his shell like that?
His love for Yatou:heh:

We all know that the entire plot that led to KKK was just Naraka being jealous at Marie hogging all of Ren's time.
You sum up his entire plan like this
-Piss off Hajun
-Hajun manages to kills everybody but Ren
-Hajun dies *dues ex Naraka style*
-Shirou (Naraka) and Ren lives happily ever after. OTP apoptosis love.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Who's the Hadou god that ruled the Shortest? I can't help but think of Hajun.



Oh hell no! The local Marguerite Otaku won't let that shit fly. He's not going to let some Yakou-Otaku bring those disgusting things on his own turf.

Mercurius battling/comparing is Marguerite collectibles to Ryuusui Yakou collectibles.

:uhoh:*The greatest battle of our time: Marguerite collectables vs Yakou-collectibles* :uhoh:



Personally I'd like to see a Continuation of Rea route, because the next game would feel empty without Mercurius' antics and monologues.



His love for Yatou:heh:

We all know that the entire plot that led to KKK was just Naraka being jealous at Marie hogging all of Ren's time.
You sum up his entire plan like this
-Piss off Hajun
-Hajun manages to kills everybody but Ren
-Hajun dies *dues ex Naraka style*
-Shirou (Naraka) and Ren lives happily ever after. OTP apoptosis love.

There is an official source somewhere that touches on this.....IIRC, it's either Hajun or Dai Ichi Ten...

Suigin making Marie clones....キモイィ


I agree with that so much. But I wonder if Ren and co will be involved seeing how they are technically "civilians" in Amaterasu world now


Then Dai Ichi Ten's ghost resurrects (by author fiat because why not) and proves to be the key to bitchslapping him into ruin

[AkitoW013]

Say, I've been thinking. If Masada continues the Shinza series, would he continue from KKK or Rea route?

It would be great if Masada write a scenario where we have a battle royal between all hadou gods, like the game in Senshinkan.

[erneiz_hyde]

Mitsudomoe already sort of does that. Everything before Mercurius I would assume is not as strong as him and thus probably easily obliterated. I mean, Mercurius supposedly killed Hisouten in one blow, so where does that leave the other two before him?

I would imagine if he continue from Rea, then we will have the Tasogare defensive as the prologue. Imagine the sheer scale of the whole game :heh:

edit: btw, I've been reading about the "Dies Irae Incident" regarding the first version of the game. Now I'm curious how bad it really was.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Mitsudomoe already sort of does that. Everything before Mercurius I would assume is not as strong as him and thus probably easily obliterated. I mean, Mercurius supposedly killed Hisouten in one blow, so where does that leave the other two before him?

I would imagine if he continue from Rea, then we will have the Tasogare defensive as the prologue. Imagine the sheer scale of the whole game :heh:

edit: btw, I've been reading about the "Dies Irae Incident" regarding the first version of the game. Now I'm curious how bad it really was.

While Suigin is indeed infinitely stronger than Satanel, he didn't actually do anything to him

Satanel spontaneously self destructed on seeing NEET because his Law is too wussy to abide a being from outside his universe




No idea...all I know is that the first version of the game feels like reading say...4 chapters into a book and then having the book stolen and your understanding of the story left hanging

[shmaster]

His love for Yatou:heh:

We all know that the entire plot that led to KKK was just Naraka being jealous at Marie hogging all of Ren's time.
You sum up his entire plan like this
-Piss off Hajun
-Hajun manages to kills everybody but Ren
-Hajun dies *dues ex Naraka style*
-Shirou (Naraka) and Ren lives happily ever after. OTP apoptosis love.

I see I see I see I SEE!!!
We need to bring Dai Ichi Ten from the dead then. Imagine NTR triangle, no I mean rectangle that is going to happen!

[shmaster]

edit: btw, I've been reading about the "Dies Irae Incident" regarding the first version of the game. Now I'm curious how bad it really was.

Only two routes, with no proper explanation on anything. Bunch of back story is missing. Samiel and white Anna's true Briah does not exist. Dialogues are far inferior to the complete version. The list just goes on.

[Kirayuki]

Machina's "JIYUU WO" instead of the current version.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Machina's "JIYUU WO" instead of the current version.

Only superior thing in the first game IMO

[Cosmic Eagle]

sm23356106

Really sweet MAD

[UchihaBeast]

sm23356106

Really sweet MAD
love the song '3'
So feels when Yato talking to himself =))
Just finish Habaki route, not the Grand Ending though
So... Eboshi-dono did die when Akuro and Morei Strikes her, but how did she survive
If I'm not mistaken, she is the apotosis in Hajun Universe and the one who can kill Hajun?
and Naraka , the observer , is resides in Tenma Sukuna?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Forced back to life by the Tumor....Apoptosis and all.

She is the only Hadou, meaning the only one who can give birth to the next Throne God (Amaterasu AKA the Tumor)

Nope, Shirou is Naraka's sensory...but in that sense you can say that Naraka's consciousness does exist in him somewhat

[UchihaBeast]

What is the Tumor to be exact?
... I thought Sakuya and Keishirou give birth to the next Throne God instead of Eboshi-dono?

[Wolfpack]

I was wondering about the abilities of some of the characters from Dies Irae. I don't know Japanese so the info I've gleaned is only from sparse reviews or google translations (epic novels like Dies Irae make me question why I haven't tried learning yet lol). It seems like their powers revolve around a certain concept. For example (warning confused ramblings ahead):

Ren's is like some hax time manipulation and Marie's guillotine has some kind of special destructive power. I'm aware that in some routes it changes, like in one it gains a quality that directly oppose's Heydrich's.

Wolfgang's seems to be some kind of speed acceleration.

I'm not clear on Goetz's except its some kind of physical-contact type with high destructive power?

Eleanor and Kei's seem to be some kind of fire manipulation, although I'm assuming Eleanor's power is greater.

Heydrich's allows him to channel the souls of his dead allies. I'm guessing this is why the Orden's core members are still around after several decades looking none the worse and why he's possessing Valeria?

Mercurius' is some kind of time space manipulation, similar to Ren's, which I suppose makes sense given their connection, but on god-level.

I probably got more than a few things wrong, which is why I was hoping for some clarification on their abilities.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Ren:

Overture --> Raises his own speed by essentially speeding up his own time.

Finale --> Slows down the time of his surroundings.

Zarathustra --> Complete control of time on metaversal scale. Also Legion ability


Wolfgang:

Speeds himself up so nothing will ever touch him. Scales according to Atziluth when Reinhard uses it


Machina:

Terminates anything he hits, even concepts. Essentially he is a death god. Scales with Atziluth with Ren or Reinhard

Kei:

Become Shakugan no Shana

Eleanor:

Traps surroundings in a pocket dimensional hell inferno.


Reinhard:

Legion ability


Mercurius:

Complete cosmological control on metaverse scale. Rewinds the entire time of all reality

[kittybear]

It's not that their powers revolve around concepts it's the other way around. Those concepts and conceptual abilities were created from their desire.

If Briah-tier character has a desire revolving around poisoning, they can poison concepts and souls and will work regardless of how stupid it sounds because their desire/law defined it as such.

Ren's is like some hax time manipulation and Marie's guillotine has some kind of special destructive power. I'm aware that in some routes it changes, like in one it gains a quality that directly opposes Heydrich's.

Indefinite delay, infinite acceleration, conceptual stop, etc ( infinite speed, reaction time, though processes, attacks and etc).

Marie's curse is basically the concept of decapitation. Touch her = decapitation, it also works on concepts and multiverses ( was used by Hajun ).


Wolfgang's seems to be some kind of speed acceleration.

The enemies speed + 1. His power is to be always faster that his opponent.

You move at the speed of light? Schreiber can move at lightspeed + 1.


I'm not clear on Goetz's except its some kind of physical-contact type with high destructive power?

Think of Ryougi Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception as shitty version of his power. Time, Space, matter, incorporeal things, souls, universes/multiverse(legion), black holes, great attractor, stars, concepts; including the concept of death itself, he can OHKO it and kill it.

Defending is near-impossible. To even have a chance of not dying in a single strike you either need to lack concept of history or achieved Taikyoku ( This is only valid he's not boosted by Legion; It gets worse when Ren/Reinhard is boosting him ).


Eleanor and Kei's seem to be some kind of fire manipulation, although I'm assuming Eleanor's power is greater.

Kei's allows her to create an eternally burning world inside her body.

Eleanor's incomplete use of her Briah allows her attacks to have a theoretical range of infinity. It will continue to expand and obliterate anything within its path until the enemy get's swallowed by it.

Her complete Briah drags people into a world that's has a temperature of 3000C with infinite shells from railway guns raining death and destruction upon the enemy.


Heydrich's allows him to channel the souls of his dead allies. I'm guessing this is why the Orden's core members are still around after several decades looking none the worse and why he's possessing Valeria?


The basics of his briah is a world that lacks the concept of death rendering everyone within it immortal. And even if they did die they'll resurrect so that they can lovingly fight him forever.

Because of Valeria's desire and just for the sake of it.



Mercurius' is some kind of time space manipulation, similar to Ren's, which I suppose makes sense given their connection, but on god-level.
Space time manipulation is just a tiny fragment of his power.

Mercurius the 4th throne God. As the throne God he's basically Brahman. Everything and anything, universes, concepts, people, souls and etc. are just a tiny fragments that compose the being called 'Mercurius'.

People dreams, their hopes, the phenomenons, concepts, ideas, ideals, the ups and downs in their life, all came from him, he wrote them all as part of his grand troll/suicidal opera.

He's basically the root of all existence and a suicidal omniscient god ( main reason he wants to die ).



Edit:
I'm surprised it took them this long to add Shinza characters to the list. I still can't stop laughing on how high Yakou is ranked on that page.

摩多羅夜行＞インフィニット＞悠久のユーフォリア＞芳乃零二＞ロック

And then for some dumb reason Gilgamesh and Archer...(*rants*).

[shmaster]

2ch ranking?
Pretend you don't see it.
That list were came up by a bunch of wankers...

[Cosmic Eagle]

2ch ranking?
Pretend you don't see it.
That list were came up by a bunch of wankers...

Indeed...how is Et Ca Repha above Ren I'll never understand....

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Bah. I lost my account to the forced password reset since I was using a dead email on it.

sm23356106

Really sweet MAD

I like this. What's the name of the song?

[Cosmic Eagle]

会いたくて 会いたくて by Nishino Kana

[Cosmic Eagle]

It's not that their powers revolve around concepts it's the other way around. Those concepts and conceptual abilities were created from their desire.

If Briah-tier character has a desire revolving around poisoning, they can poison concepts and souls and will work regardless of how stupid it sounds because their desire/law defined it as such.


Indefinite delay, infinite acceleration, conceptual stop, etc ( infinite speed, reaction time, though processes, attacks and etc).

Marie's curse is basically the concept of decapitation. Touch her = decapitation, it also works on concepts and multiverses ( was used by Hajun ).


The enemies speed + 1. His power is to be always faster that his opponent.

You move at the speed of light? Schreiber can move at lightspeed + 1.


Think of Ryougi Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception as shitty version of his power. Time, Space, matter, incorporeal things, souls, universes/multiverse(legion), black holes, great attractor, stars, concepts; including the concept of death itself, he can OHKO it and kill it.

Defending is near-impossible. To even have a chance of not dying in a single strike you either need to lack concept of history or achieved Taikyoku ( This is only valid he's not boosted by Legion; It gets worse when Ren/Reinhard is boosting him ).


Kei's allows her to create an eternally burning world inside her body.

Eleanor's incomplete use of her Briah allows her attacks to have a theoretical range of infinity. It will continue to expand and obliterate anything within its path until the enemy get's swallowed by it.

Her complete Briah drags people into a world that's has a temperature of 3000C with infinite shells from railway guns raining death and destruction upon the enemy.



The basics of his briah is a world that lacks the concept of death rendering everyone within it immortal. And even if they did die they'll resurrect so that they can lovingly fight him forever.

Because of Valeria's desire and just for the sake of it.



Space time manipulation is just a tiny fragment of his power.

Mercurius the 4th throne God. As the throne God he's basically Brahman. Everything and anything, universes, concepts, people, souls and etc. are just a tiny fragments that compose the being called 'Mercurius'.

People dreams, their hopes, the phenomenons, concepts, ideas, ideals, the ups and downs in their life, all came from him, he wrote them all as part of his grand troll/suicidal opera.

He's basically the root of all existence and a suicidal omniscient god ( main reason he wants to die ).



Edit:
I'm surprised it took them this long to add Shinza characters to the list. I still can't stop laughing on how high Yakou is ranked on that page.



And then for some dumb reason Gilgamesh and Archer...(*rants*).

Technically Ryougi's ability isn't similar to Machina's at all...

She ends targets by hitting them at their "beginnning" since the lines and dots originate from the Akasha Root.

Machina's is literally smash the target with the concept of death

[UchihaBeast]

why are Heydrich and Mercurius are Apotosis to each other?
I don't really understand the Apotosis you explained to me before

[kittybear]

why are Heydrich and Mercurius are Apotosis to each other?


Because of plot.


I don't really understand the Apotosis you explained to me before

Hadou gods are considered to be "everyone" and "everything" and is basically Masada's twist on the relationship between Brahman-atman.

An apoptosis would be that small piece of the Godhead that wants to punch the Godhead...which is technically the godhead itself punching itself to death. Which kills both of them since they are essentially the not the "same person" but "same being".

Confusing? Well, Masada likes his Hindu shit; he even turned a Hindu into a super Hindu god for kicks
∴
TL;DR:: If you still don't get it just think of Reinhard as the incarnation Mercurius' desire to kill himself.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Technically Hajun/Mara Hapiyasu is Buddhist lore but yeah....

He's still Indian though

[kittybear]

Technically Hajun/Mara Hapiyasu is Buddhist lore but yeah....

I know. I just like think of Hajun as some sort of super saiyan hindu god as far as Hadou gods go, since core idea for Hadou Gods are Brahman-Atman.


He's still Indian though
Would have preferred if Hajun was a female named Nobuna(ga):heh:

[UchihaBeast]

Because of plot.



Hadou gods are considered to be "everyone" and "everything" and is basically Masada's twist on the relationship between Brahman-atman.

An apoptosis would be that small piece of the Godhead that wants to punch the Godhead...which is technically the godhead itself punching itself to death. Which kills both of them since they are essentially the not the "same person" but "same being".

Confusing? Well, Masada likes his Hindu shit; he even turned a Hindu into a super Hindu god for kicks
∴
TL;DR:: If you still don't get it just think of Reinhard as the incarnation Mercurius' desire to kill himself.

ok, It's like his law turns against him, right?
Going to play Paradise Lost, mind spoiling me some :)

[erneiz_hyde]

The complete rules regarding how one can have an apoptosis and their exact purpose (other than to bring mutual death to its origin) is still a mystery to me.
Ren, a crafted Relic born out of Snake's image, had one before he became a hadou god and lo and behold that apoptosis turns out to also be Naraka's sensory.
Then there's Habaki, who is the sensory of Tumor. From my understanding, Rindou is the apoptosis of Habaki but not necessarily the Tumor.
While we're at it, I'm also confused at how sensory works. Sometimes sensories are treated and act as the exact person they originated from (Cagliostro), but some other times, they're like two completely different individuals (Habaki, Shirou, Yakou).
I can't fathom what causality that brings all this about. I mean, it's chicken and egg level of confusing.

[shmaster]

How Apoptosis work is quite simple actually.
They were born whenever the Hadou God has conflicting desire.

The snake is torn between his desire to meet Marie again and dying in her arm.
Ren is torn between his desire for eternity and his vision on the value of life.
The tumor is torn between his desire to live and his desire of coming out of his hiding,

Ren is a special case though, being a copy of the Snake, he had his Apoptosis since birth.

As for the sensory. Habaki acted so different because he purposefully renounced his memory because he is simply too scared. Yakou is so different because he is something Hajun hijacked from Ryusui.
But we can't comment on Shirou, as no one know how exactly the Observer works.

[Cosmic Eagle]

BTW...Yakou is not a sensory per se...

he is "Hajun's dirty cell"

Can't compare him to Habaki, Shirou or Suigin

Would have preferred if Hajun was a female named Nobuna(ga)

I believe that's Dai Ichi Ten's job

[UchihaBeast]

The complete rules regarding how one can have an apoptosis and their exact purpose (other than to bring mutual death to its origin) is still a mystery to me.
Ren, a crafted Relic born out of Snake's image, had one before he became a hadou god and lo and behold that apoptosis turns out to also be Naraka's sensory.
Then there's Habaki, who is the sensory of Tumor. From my understanding, Rindou is the apoptosis of Habaki but not necessarily the Tumor.
While we're at it, I'm also confused at how sensory works. Sometimes sensories are treated and act as the exact person they originated from (Cagliostro), but some other times, they're like two completely different individuals (Habaki, Shirou, Yakou).
I can't fathom what causality that brings all this about. I mean, it's chicken and egg level of confusing.
Just what is Io?
and Ie '3'
I don't understand it
I saw you guys talking about IE on one of the first page but don't know what it is

[erneiz_hyde]

That's not Io, that's lo. 'Lo and behold' :heh:

BTW...Yakou is not a sensory per se...

he is "Hajun's dirty cell"

Can't compare him to Habaki, Shirou or Suigin
But he is, according to that atwiki.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Does he even function the same as Habaki and Mercurius? He doesn't even stem from Hajun.

He's more like the KKK cast after they received the Hajun powerup than a true sensory

[Wolfpack]

It's not that their powers revolve around concepts it's the other way around. Those concepts and conceptual abilities were created from their desire.

If Briah-tier character has a desire revolving around poisoning, they can poison concepts and souls and will work regardless of how stupid it sounds because their desire/law defined it as such.


Indefinite delay, infinite acceleration, conceptual stop, etc ( infinite speed, reaction time, though processes, attacks and etc).

Marie's curse is basically the concept of decapitation. Touch her = decapitation, it also works on concepts and multiverses ( was used by Hajun ).


The enemies speed + 1. His power is to be always faster that his opponent.

You move at the speed of light? Schreiber can move at lightspeed + 1.


Think of Ryougi Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception as shitty version of his power. Time, Space, matter, incorporeal things, souls, universes/multiverse(legion), black holes, great attractor, stars, concepts; including the concept of death itself, he can OHKO it and kill it.

Defending is near-impossible. To even have a chance of not dying in a single strike you either need to lack concept of history or achieved Taikyoku ( This is only valid he's not boosted by Legion; It gets worse when Ren/Reinhard is boosting him ).


Kei's allows her to create an eternally burning world inside her body.

Eleanor's incomplete use of her Briah allows her attacks to have a theoretical range of infinity. It will continue to expand and obliterate anything within its path until the enemy get's swallowed by it.

Her complete Briah drags people into a world that's has a temperature of 3000C with infinite shells from railway guns raining death and destruction upon the enemy.



The basics of his briah is a world that lacks the concept of death rendering everyone within it immortal. And even if they did die they'll resurrect so that they can lovingly fight him forever.

Because of Valeria's desire and just for the sake of it.



Space time manipulation is just a tiny fragment of his power.

Mercurius the 4th throne God. As the throne God he's basically Brahman. Everything and anything, universes, concepts, people, souls and etc. are just a tiny fragments that compose the being called 'Mercurius'.

People dreams, their hopes, the phenomenons, concepts, ideas, ideals, the ups and downs in their life, all came from him, he wrote them all as part of his grand troll/suicidal opera.

He's basically the root of all existence and a suicidal omniscient god ( main reason he wants to die ).



Edit:
I'm surprised it took them this long to add Shinza characters to the list. I still can't stop laughing on how high Yakou is ranked on that page.



And then for some dumb reason Gilgamesh and Archer...(*rants*).

Technically Ryougi's ability isn't similar to Machina's at all...

She ends targets by hitting them at their "beginnning" since the lines and dots originate from the Akasha Root.

Machina's is literally smash the target with the concept of death

Lol. I knew they were hax, but having it explained to me just puts in perspective.

Thanks alot Cosmic Eagle and Kittybear.

I read that the relics are powered by the mass amount of souls from people killed by the Order. Is that correct?

[Kirayuki]

Does he even function the same as Habaki and Mercurius? He doesn't even stem from Hajun.

He's more like the KKK cast after they received the Hajun powerup than a true sensory

Hajun can take over anybody forcefully as his sensory, another case in point : Reizen.

In term of functionality, they should more or less the same with the original one like Ren or Habaki.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Hajun can take over anybody forcefully as his sensory, another case in point : Reizen.

In term of functionality, they should more or less the same with the original one like Ren or Habaki.

I don't really consider that as a true Sensory as in a created avatar though.

Hajun is more like forced possession

[Darkking]

What abilities have Keishirou Kyougetsu?
Here (http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/467107-Swordsmen-that-can-beat-Mibu-Soujiro/page4) wrote that he Infinite Multiversal, is that true?
If yes, on which it is based?:confused:

[Cosmic Eagle]

What abilities have Keishirou Kyougetsu?
Here (http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/467107-Swordsmen-that-can-beat-Mibu-Soujiro/page4) wrote that he Infinite Multiversal, is that true?
If yes, on which it is based?:confused:

What? No....he isn't

His "super power" is simply put, super normality

He rejected Hajun's influence through enforcing his will to be a normal human and caused a wound in his body. Doesn't mean he is infinite multiversal

More like.....he is "normal" enough to wound a metaversal+ level dark god


If you can wrap your head around that....

[kittybear]

Ugh, it reminds me of how Sukuna lost...fuck normal people.

The only possible incarnation of "Keishirou Kyougetsu" that can be considered 'Infinite Multiversal' is legion!Wilhelm Ehrenburg.

[erneiz_hyde]

And reading through that (frankly weird :heh: ) thread, I think you mistook Kai. Kai isn't Keishiro. And he isn't multiverse as well. Only Hadou Gods in the Throne are multiversal. Kemono and Ren became multiversal despite never reaching the throne because of Marie's law which allows the coexistence of multiple Hadou Gods.

Ugh, it reminds me of how Sukuna lost...fuck normal people.

The only possible incarnation of "Keishirou Kyougetsu" that can be considered 'Infinite Multiversal' is legion!Wilhelm Ehrenburg.
I know Legion ability boosts the member's Taikyoku, but I'm not sure if that makes them multiverse as well. Hadou Legion members aside, I can't imagine a multiverse Gudou.

[Cosmic Eagle]

And reading through that (frankly weird :heh: ) thread, I think you mistook Kai. Kai isn't Keishiro. And he isn't multiverse as well. Only Hadou Gods in the Throne are multiversal. Kemono and Ren became multiversal despite never reaching the throne because of Marie's law which allows the coexistence of multiple Hadou Gods.


I know Legion ability boosts the member's Taikyoku, but I'm not sure if that makes them multiverse as well. Hadou Legion members aside, I can't imagine a multiverse Gudou.

The Tenma are all multiverse+ level via Ren's Legion ability

And they are mainly originally Gudou (Machina, Kei, Beatrice, Kai)

[kittybear]

I know Legion ability boosts the member's Taikyoku, but I'm not sure if that makes them multiverse as well. Hadou Legion members aside, I can't imagine a multiverse Gudou.
It's not that they become a multiverse, it's more like the scale of their abilities are scaled up to their host.

[Cosmic Eagle]

It's not that they become a multiverse, it's more like the scale of their abilities are scaled up to their host.

Actually....I think they do.

All the Gudou Tenma are still capable of having personal universes at the level of Ren's own

And reading through that (frankly weird :heh: ) thread, I think you mistook Kai. Kai isn't Keishiro. And he isn't multiverse as well. Only Hadou Gods in the Throne are multiversal. Kemono and Ren became multiversal despite never reaching the throne because of Marie's law which allows the coexistence of multiple Hadou Gods.


It's not that....Suigin made the Shinza-verse metaversal+

Therefore by that virtue, all Hadou Gods will move to fill that scale because of the Hadou nature.

[erneiz_hyde]

Actually....I think they do.

All the Gudou Tenma are still capable of having personal universes at the level of Ren's own



It's not that....Suigin made the Shinza-verse metaversal+

Therefore by that virtue, all Hadou Gods will move to fill that scale because of the Hadou nature.
I thought Suigin made the Throne multiversal. As in, the multiverse existed already, and the Throne only encompassed those after Suigin took the Throne.

The multiverses exist separately on their own, so for a being to become multiversal, it has to go through the Throne. But the Throne was originally made with just one person on it at any given time so there could only be one Hadou God at a time, until Marie came and added her law.

At least, this is the explanation I came up with for the Throne Records having Beast and Ren despite the two never taking the Throne.

[Cosmic Eagle]

I thought Suigin made the Throne multiversal. As in, the multiverse existed already, and the Throne only encompassed those after Suigin took the Throne.

The multiverses exist separately on their own, so for a being to become multiversal, it has to go through the Throne. But the Throne was originally made with just one person on it at any given time so there could only be one Hadou God at a time, until Marie came and added her law.

At least, this is the explanation I came up with for the Throne Records having Beast and Ren despite the two never taking the Throne.

Yes, but by Shinza-verse, I meant that encompassed by the Throne.

It's not.....go through the Throne. Hadou will automatically move to take the entire multiverse for itself. So it will thus clash with the Throne God who is the controller of all reality.

While Marie's Law prevented them from clashing and killing each other, the victor would emerge multiversal scale because of the physical/metaphysical space being that scale if she were not around.


Thus all Hadou Gods are effectively of infinite multiverse+ affecting capability. It's just whether they are opposed or not.

All of them have the needed soul density required for it.


So for example while Yatou's Mugen Jigoku is not affecting a conceptual/physical space of multiverse+ scale due to Hajun's crushing pressure, he is still much more powerful than Suigin on the Throne because his soul density/quality is much higher and thus he would easily best any Throne God and claim reality for himself if Hajun were not there

Thus he would be essentially be considered a metaversal scale God even if Edo is just Honshu sized...



As for why other earlier Hadou Gods then did not presumably take all the multiverses for themselves. Consider that all Hadou Gods before Suigin are just too low in power and thus why they were restricted to a single Universe.

After all, Suigin boosted the Throne's conquering ability, not the other way round.

Everyone from Dies onwards is just far too above the early Hadou Gods

Atziluth users would still exist even without the Throne....Throne is just a weapon made to utilize Hadou Atziluth

[erneiz_hyde]

It's not.....go through the Throne. Hadou will automatically move to take the entire multiverse for itself. So it will thus clash with the Throne God who is the controller of all reality.
But then what about The First and Second and Third? They aren't Multiverse despite being a Hadou God.

[Cosmic Eagle]

But then what about The First and Second and Third? They aren't Multiverse despite being a Hadou God.

When they hit Atziluth, they took the Throne after throwing off the original God.

Since there was no other Hadou God around, they took the Throne by default and the Throne then was still universal. It is only in Dies on when you have multiple Hadou Atziluth at the same time


A clearer picture...at end of Three Color route in AA....Marie hadn't ascended the Throne yet. Yet the final battle against Suigin, all were same scale as him (Although Suigin is of course stronger than Ren due to higher Taikyouku rank) Kemono is because he is in Apoptosis mode, but Ren fully awakened is also on similar level.


And also...Suigin's influence came from outside Satanel's universe when he first encountered and clashed with Satanel. In light of this, it's entirely possible that scale is Taikyouku Rank dependent

[kittybear]

As for why other earlier Hadou Gods then did not presumably take all the multiverses for themselves. Consider that all Hadou Gods before Suigin are just too low in power and thus why they were restricted to a single Universe.



Maybe the limitation from a singular universe was because it was originally designed that way, not their rank that limits them from expanding infinitely. Since the original purpose was to fill the whatever is contained in the throne with the Throne God's law, and since there's only a singular universe in it, their Hadou also stops expanding once that universe's laws have been rewritten.

Until Mercury happened to rewrote the firmware to allow it indefinite expansion and seized all of reality.

Anyway any of you guys know a good Dies or KKK fanfic?:heh:
http://s30.postimg.org/ebjse41s1/Ophis_Hajun.png

[Cosmic Eagle]

Maybe the limitation from a singular universe was because it was originally designed that way, not their rank that limits them from expanding infinitely. Since the original purpose was to fill the whatever is contained in the throne with the Throne God's law, and since there's only a singular universe in it, their Hadou also stops expanding once that universe's laws have been rewritten.

Until Mercury happened to rewrote the firmware to allow it indefinite expansion and seized all of reality.

Anyway any of you guys know a good Dies or KKK fanfic?:heh:
http://s30.postimg.org/ebjse41s1/Ophis_Hajun.png

But Hadou fills whatever there is to fill. It should not be limited by the Throne.

Hadou Atziluth does not depend on the Throne. Throne was an invention by Dai Ichi Ten's people to utilize Hadou Atziluth

And Snake's Hadou influence came from outside Satanel's universe (Satanel spontaneously imploded on contact with it)


Here's a good one: http://www.mai-net.net/bbs/sst/sst.php?act=dump&cate=etc&all=20025&n=0&count=1

[kittybear]

But Hadou fills whatever there is to fill. It should not be limited by the Throne.

Hadou Atziluth does not depend on the Throne. Throne was an invention by Dai Ichi Ten's people to utilize Hadou Atziluth

And Snake's Hadou influence came from outside Satanel's universe (Satanel spontaneously imploded on contact with it)


Here's a good one: http://www.mai-net.net/bbs/sst/sst.php?act=dump&cate=etc&all=20025&n=0&count=1

I've thing about that too, which leads to really weird ideas, like:

*Either there was no multiverse- prior to Mercury or the multiverse does exist and Throne God 1,2,3 didn't have a high Taikyoku actively seize them(that would mean those universes have more mass than them?).

That would mean those universes have more mass than them? Since hadou gods grow in mass/stronger every-time they seize something.

Which doesn't make sense. When the only time they can't seize a universe is when they encounter a stronger taikyoku offsetting their influence.

*Or there exist a multiverse of Gudou Gods outside of Satanel 's control...:eyespin:
And since it's Gudou...their Hadou ignores it...:eyespin:

Thanks.
I've reading this DxD fanfic and I can't help but think when Ophis is introduced, she'll be as a sensory of Hajun. She wants 'silence' and Hajun also wants something similar...:uhoh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

It's most likely Taikyouku rank. Maybe their Hadou is not strong enough to claim more than one universe.

With Suigin being naturally born as the most broken God besides Yatou and Hajun

You realize everything from Dies on has a ridiculously high Taikyouku rank (partly due to Suigin's vast expansion of the Shinza-verse and his resultant meddling)



And if there was no multiverse prior to Snake and it was all created by him...Where did he come from?

Ok, he doesn't exactly obey causality and can thus have been always present but why was he outside then?

[kittybear]

And if there was no multiverse prior to Snake and it was all created by him...Where did he come from?
Ok, he doesn't exactly obey causality and can thus have been always present but why was he outside then?


Aren't Gudou Gods unaffected by throne succession since they're always outside? Disconnect with the main godhead.

If we follow the idea that there was no multiverse before the snake.

Then for all we know he could have been born between the Era of the 1st Heaven - 3rd heaven as a Gudou.

Unless we have a story with Mercury is the protagonist, we can't really have a solid conclusion where this NEET came from, especially when he's a living paradox.

Personally I'd love to see Mercury is the MC for once.

[shmaster]

Actually, there is nothing outside the Throne's domain.
Until the Snake came in, that singular universe is all there is. Snake is a spontaneously new born universe outside the Throne, which incorporated with the Throne after Satanel self imploded.
Also, possessing a multiverse is the Snake's unique property, no one else has it. Like Marie's ability to make Hadou coexist is something unique to her. In other words, the size of the universe has nothing to do with the Hadou God's power. Throne became multiversal only because the Snake had been there.
What Snake did is not updating the firmware, but literally installed new hard drive into the PC. And it is not the Hadou Gods after the Snake has become multiversal in a real sense, but they are just using the hard drive that the Snake had left behind.

BTW, the time paradox caused by Satanel during Paradise Lost was the direct cause that made the spontaneous new birth of other universes possible.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Actually, there is nothing outside the Throne's domain.
Until the Snake came in, that singular universe is all there is. Snake is a spontaneously new born universe outside the Throne, which incorporated with the Throne after Satanel self imploded.
Also, possessing a multiverse is the Snake's unique property, no one else has it. Like Marie's ability to make Hadou coexist is something unique to her. In other words, the size of the universe has nothing to do with the Hadou God's power. Throne became multiversal only because the Snake had been there.
What Snake did is not updating the firmware, but literally installed new hard drive into the PC. And it is not the Hadou Gods after the Snake has become multiversal in a real sense, but they are just using the hard drive that the Snake had left behind.

BTW, the time paradox caused by Satanel during Paradise Lost was the direct cause that made the spontaneous new birth of other universes possible.

Wait....So Snake is.....a cosmological freak of nature? And he was....birthed by Satanel in a sense? @@

I thought the Throne seeks out and conquers other universes?


Aren't Gudou Gods unaffected by throne succession since they're always outside? Disconnect with the main godhead.

If we follow the idea that there was no multiverse before the snake.

Then for all we know he could have been born between the Era of the 1st Heaven - 3rd heaven as a Gudou.

Unless we have a story with Mercury is the protagonist, we can't really have a solid conclusion where this NEET came from, especially when he's a living paradox.

Personally I'd love to see Mercury is the MC for once.

Same...he's easily the most interesting potential protagonist.

But if Acta est Fabula came about due to stalker desire for Marie....then what was his Law before meeting Marie?

[shmaster]

Yes, the Snake is a cosmological freak of nature.

And yes, Throne naturally seeks out other universe an conquer it. But there is no other universe back then until the birth of Snake and his universe.

Throne naturally attacks it, and the poor Satanel imploded upon seeing the Snake.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Yes, the Snake is a cosmological freak of nature.

And yes, Throne naturally seeks out other universe an conquer it. But there is no other universe back then until the birth of Snake and his universe.

Throne naturally attacks it, and the poor Satanel imploded upon seeing the Snake.

Wait so it's like....

The Throne is conquering that which is already components of the Snake?

Meaning the Snake is technically more vast than the Throne?

[shmaster]

Yes, you can put it that way.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Then why did Snake even bother with the Throne....

I mean, if he bypassed it, he could technically leave Naraka in the dust...

[shmaster]

Because the Throne attacked him?
And Snake didn't figure out how the Throne work until much much much later.

[Cosmic Eagle]

But still, that's technically a way to beat Naraka....If one is already greater than the Throne itself in the first place

[shmaster]

That is assuming the Snake knows something is wrong with the Throne in the very beginning.

But he doesn't. He didn't detect the "the certain someone I need to get rid off more than Hajun" until post Dies.

[Darkking]

What gives the swastika? 8\8 resurrect Reinhard?

[Cosmic Eagle]

What gives the swastika? 8\8 resurrect Reinhard?

Not resurrect....Boost him to Atziluth level

[Darkking]

Not resurrect....Boost him to Atziluth level
How?
Without this Reinhard can not reach Atziluth?

[erneiz_hyde]

It's not impossible, but the whole entirety of Dies IS just a farce staged by Snake so yeah... :heh:

The moment Reinhart recognizes Snake as the Throne God and stand against him, Reinhart reaches the same Atziluth level as Snake. Though in most cases, Reinhart realizes Snake as the Throne God when he first achieved Atziluth himself and then immediately proceeded to battle Snake.

The swastika is a 2-step procedure. The first step is to indefinitely open Reinhart's Briah (this happened in Berlin's fall). The next step is to spill his Briah to all of creation, thus achieving Atziluth.

[UchihaBeast]

Does Heydrich Kamunagara(the lion) have any relevant to something?

[Darkking]

Who are Isaac and Johan?
http://i68.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0808/68/bffd65e7c0a85c7fb23ede0171863b68.png

[Cosmic Eagle]

Liza's child and grandchild

[shmaster]

Wait, they are both her child. We never see Liza's grandchild.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Wait, they are both her child. We never see Liza's grandchild.

Eh...I always thought Johan was Teresia's elder uncle...

[erneiz_hyde]

Wasn't Isaac and Yohann supposed to be twins? They both are Reinhart's sons as well, right?

[shmaster]

That's right, they are twins.
And John is Kasumi's grandfather.

[UchihaBeast]

Johan is Kasumi's grandfather?
I don't know about that
I just know that Issac and Johan are Liza 's Children
then Issac was sacrificed as Zonnedkind
while Johan don't like it and go away to a far far land , unknown to Liza nor Issac =))

[Cosmic Eagle]

sm24033258

Lol

NEET's stats should ALL be EX+

So does Tenma Machina's "destructiveness" stat

[erneiz_hyde]

lol, after watching that I just realized Liza also didn't have Briah.

also, lol, the true Mizuki is indeed overall stronger than pre-Rosei Yoshiya except in willpower :heh:

Oh, it also says those with Kyuudan is stronger than your average LDO members.

[Cosmic Eagle]

lol, after watching that I just realized Liza also didn't have Briah.

also, lol, the true Mizuki is indeed overall stronger than pre-Rosei Yoshiya except in willpower :heh:

Oh, it also says those with Kyuudan is stronger than your average LDO members.

I am actually more surprised that the vid maker rates Keishiro as lower than Wilhelm.....

[erneiz_hyde]

That's because he rates Keishirou at the end fight against Hajun, I guess.

[Cosmic Eagle]

That's because he rates Keishirou at the end fight against Hajun, I guess.

Hmm? Wouldn't that be the human one with the godly will?

I am talking about Magatsuki Keishiro

[erneiz_hyde]

Hmm? Wouldn't that be the human one with the godly will?

I am talking about Magatsuki Keishiro
Well, that was the point of his route wasn't it? He struggled with himself and ultimately refused to come back being Wilhelm despite it was clearly a sure way to gain more power.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Well, that was the point of his route wasn't it? He struggled with himself and ultimately refused to come back being Wilhelm despite it was clearly a sure way to gain more power.

More like...becoming a monster like Wilhelm rather than take back Rozenkavalier Schwarzwald in its Hadou form.

After all, due to Hajun's Law, it became a Gudou power


And unless its Atziluth vs Atziluth, Gudou is much stronger on a personal level no?

[Darkking]

Kasumi route completed. Actually it was quite boring.
The swastika is not complete and interesting fights almost was not. But Yusa cool. Kasumi is boring. :mad:
Um, stupid question, but how to switch to route Sakurai?
Already understood.:heh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Kasumi route completed. Actually it was quite boring.
The swastika is not complete and interesting fights almost was not. But Yusa cool. Kasumi is boring. :mad:
Um, stupid question, but how to switch to route Sakurai?
Already understood.:heh:

Kasumi route is for watching Valeria spontaneously implode at the end

[shmaster]

Not to mention Valeria did a very good at it.
It was so amazingly comedic.

[Darkking]

Kasumi route is for watching Valeria spontaneously implode at the end
Battle of Shiro and Bay was good. But the ending was a bit strange and not very interesting. Route Sakurai like much more.
The next question.
How strong characters Soushuu Senshinkan Gakuen Hachimyoujin relatively characters Dies Irae, or Kajiri Kamui Kagura? I heard that Masada reduce global power level, but how much?

[Ougon]

Battle of Shiro and Bay was good. But the ending was a bit strange and not very interesting. Route Sakurai like much more.
The next question.
How strong characters Soushuu Senshinkan Gakuen Hachimyoujin relatively characters Dies Irae, or Kajiri Kamui Kagura? I heard that Masada reduce global power level, but how much?

Top tier are still universal+ but still lacking compared to PL/DI/KKK ones.

[Darkking]

http://img1.imagehousing.com/70/3611de05d6a532edbdb5aefebe45afd4.png
How? How did he hit him? =/

[Darkking]

Top tier are still universal+ but still lacking compared to PL/DI/KKK ones.
Thank you.

[Cosmic Eagle]

http://img1.imagehousing.com/70/3611de05d6a532edbdb5aefebe45afd4.png
How? How did he hit him? =/

Simple answer? Sucker punch


Logical answer? Plot.....



The tables are turned in Rea's route though

[erneiz_hyde]

If I remember right, at that time Schreiber totally didn't even think that Valeria would do that, so it was a surprise for him. During Rea route Valeria has defected thus Schreiber was ready for him.

[shmaster]

Most importantly he activated the Longinus Testament there, along with the Beast's permission.
So even if Schreiber tries, he can't get away.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Most importantly he activated the Longinus Testament there, along with the Beast's permission.
So even if Schreiber tries, he can't get away.

Well...he could technically take him down with him if he's fast enough

After all, using it renders you vulnerable no? Although he won't survive since the Lance will hit him

[Darkking]

If I remember right, at that time Schreiber totally didn't even think that Valeria would do that, so it was a surprise for him. During Rea route Valeria has defected thus Schreiber was ready for him.
I see Christophe loves to attack from behind.

So even if Schreiber tries, he can't get away.
Why?

[Cosmic Eagle]

I see Christophe loves to attack from behind.


Why?

The Lance is a sure hit weapon

[UchihaBeast]

The Lance is a sure hit weapon
Now that something new :confused:
I think the lance has a sealing power like it did to Marie in Kasumi and Kei route

[Cosmic Eagle]

The Lance combines all 3 of the High Captains' affinities

Machina's sure kill, Zamiel's sure hit, White Anna's sure outrun

[Kirayuki]

GUYS

sm24258874

では芝居の幕を下ろすとしよう～

[Cosmic Eagle]

GUYS

sm24258874

では芝居の幕を下ろすとしよう～

Never mess with a NEET....not even if you are a psycho kid


that ending pose after Sequere Naturam though LOL

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Why did Hajun claim the Throne? I know Throne imposes the Atziluth law upon the multiverse, but his power is ever growing, right? He can decimate it outright and then the rest of the multiverse, assuming the latter will survive without the former. Why would he even take it when knowing that, in a way and being the purest Hadou existence, it grants him a weakness in the form of Apoptosis?

Stay free, Machina lol. It amuses me how, even in a knockdown state, Mercurius doesn't care lol. Reminds me of Elizabeth from P4A

I want to see a fight with Hajun. Then again, moving = instant KO :uhoh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Why did Hajun claim the Throne? I know Throne imposes the Atziluth law upon the multiverse, but his power is ever growing, right? He can decimate it outright and then the rest of the multiverse, assuming the latter will survive without the former. Why would he even take it when knowing that, in a way and being the purest Hadou existence, it grants him a weakness in the form of Apoptosis?

Hajun has no Apoptosis due to how unified his will is. He was even erasing the Throne itself before he was finally defeated.


The Throne is his downfall because it means those lesser beings are now part of him so they taint his once pure form.


And he took it because it was there....he just instinctively claimed it after massacring everyone.

[UchihaBeast]

Hajun has no Apoptosis due to how unified his will is. He was even erasing the Throne itself before he was finally defeated.


The Throne is his downfall because it means those lesser beings are now part of him so they taint his once pure form.


And he took it because it was there....he just instinctively claimed it after massacring everyone.

wait wait
I thought Rindo and Habaki were Hajun's apotosis?
then again, if Hajun has no apotosis, how did he lose?

[erneiz_hyde]

And he took it because it was there....he just instinctively claimed it after massacring everyone.
I don't think he "claimed" it. The Throne was basically forced upon him because no one else could claim it after he killed Marie.
wait wait
I thought Rindo and Habaki were Hajun's apotosis?
then again, if Hajun has no apotosis, how did he lose?
Habaki is the sensory of Tumor, Hajun's twin brother. and Rindo is Habaki's apotosis.

Hajun lost because the existence of Tumor brings himself in a contradiction of his perfect self. Basically, aside against Tumor (and Habaki) any word Hajun mutters is a monologue.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Well technically speaking, you can reject the Throne even if you are the sole Hadou God left no?

I mean look at the Snake....I don't think the Throne was default forced on him after Satanel imploded...

[erneiz_hyde]

Well technically speaking, you can reject the Throne even if you are the sole Hadou God left no?

I mean look at the Snake....I don't think the Throne was default forced on him after Satanel imploded...
If you can reject it, then it makes no sense that Hajun would take it. Why would he? Ho doesn't need anything other than himself. And in actuality it got him weaker.

I don't really know the details of the event, but I think Snake might have been forced into the throne as well if he didn't originally intended to take it (though I think he was aiming for it).

[Cosmic Eagle]

If you can reject it, then it makes no sense that Hajun would take it. Why would he? Ho doesn't need anything other than himself. And in actuality it got him weaker.

I don't really know the details of the event, but I think Snake might have been forced into the throne as well if he didn't originally intended to take it (though I think he was aiming for it).

The thing is.....Does Hajun even acknowledge that he is now Throne God to reject that role?

He is incapable of perceiving anything other than himself....For all we know, it's like Marie died and suddenly, there's a host of germs within his body and his only reaction is rage rage rage. It never seemed like he was as cognizant of his role to the same degree as the Snake.

[erneiz_hyde]

Which is why, it makes more sense that the Throne was forced on him than him claiming it.

[Darkking]

What is Einferia?
I did not understand.

[erneiz_hyde]

It's Einherjar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einherjar). Basically Reinhard's Immortal Legion. Have you really not heard the term before? I'm wondering if Norse myth isn't as common knowledge as I thought.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Questioning time:

-How does Hajun fight when he isn't even aware of the opposing party? The guy curbstomped three hadou gods and, IIRC, wasn't even aware of them. Is this the passive form of his law taking effect? And why does he even bother to use the recorded hadou abilities of the Throne?

-Did Hajun take out the three hadou gods while depowered due to recently awakening?

-How did Ren survive the first encounter with Hajun?

-Is there a CG of the reincarnated D.I cast, even for Ren, in KKK?

-We have natural atziluth users and artificial ones (i.e: through Mercurius' formula). Are there differences in traits between them?

-What was Marie's original Gudou desire?

-For how long has Marie observed Ren, like his visits to the church, prior to the events of Dies Irae?

-Is it true that NEET has Marie dolls? :uhoh:

-What did Marie tell Cogliostro in his final moments (Rea route)?

-Who's the Ougon lookalike in KKK? :o

[erneiz_hyde]

Questioning time:

-How does Hajun fight when he isn't even aware of the opposing party? The guy curbstomped three hadou gods and, IIRC, wasn't even aware of them. Is this the passive form of his law taking effect? And why does he even bother to use the recorded hadou abilities of the Throne?

"not aware" isn't entirely correct. It's a sub-theme of his third eye. His third eye sees everything and yet perceives nothing. It's a bit difficult to explain with words, but what the Tengudou residents were doing when Hajun's law became complete pictures it quite well. Perhaps you can think of it as clapping a mosquito when you're concentrating on other things, you can see it but think nothing of it.

As for why he used the throne hadou, in his perspective, he's basically throwing some pile of garbage to other pile of garbage. He's very delighted when the other pile of garbage cleans his pile of garbage, so he keeps throwing it at them.

-Did Hajun take out the three hadou gods while depowered due to recently awakening?
Actually, that was when Hajun is most powerful. He was truly 'one' and haven't yet absorbed the massive pile of garbage that is the multiverse. After taking the Throne he's actually weakened.


-Is there a CG of the reincarnated D.I cast, even for Ren, in KKK?

Yes there is.


-We have natural atziluth users and artificial ones (i.e: through Mercurius' formula). Are there differences in traits between them?

As far as I can tell, none.


-What was Marie's original Gudou desire?

Unknown. I originally thought that her 'heads-popping-off-if you-touch-her' to be that, but apparently it is just a curse, though a very powerful one (I mean, it can even easily kill Snake, the freaking Throne God. how eff'ed up of a curse is that?)


-Who's the Ougon lookalike in KKK? :o
Ougon lookalike? I don't remember anyone like that. Ougon only appeared briefly as a shadow in Ryuumei's memory flashback.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

IIRC, the folks getting married at the end of KKK were Habaki and Rindou. Is this correct or am I wrong?

Btw, what are the differences between Rea's route and Machina's route?

"not aware" isn't entirely correct. It's a sub-theme of his third eye. His third eye sees everything and yet perceives nothing. It's a bit difficult to explain with words, but what the Tengudou residents were doing when Hajun's law became complete pictures it quite well. Perhaps you can think of it as clapping a mosquito when you're concentrating on other things, you can see it but think nothing of it.

As for why he used the throne hadou, in his perspective, he's basically throwing some pile of garbage to other pile of garbage. He's very delighted when the other pile of garbage cleans his pile of garbage, so he keeps throwing it at them.


Expected of Hajun. Egocentric on a multiversal scale. Maybe even beyond that :uhoh:

[Darkking]

Finished routes Sakurai and Marie. Route Marie liked much more. She is very cute! But still the final battle of Ren and Reinhard was expecting more. It was epic, but was expecting a large scale. Probably had high expectations. Read a lot about the fact that users of Atzilut easily destroy universes.:heh:
Reinhard very charismatic villain.:cool:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Finished routes Sakurai and Marie. Route Marie liked much more. She is very cute! But still the final battle of Ren and Reinhard was expecting more. It was epic, but was expecting a large scale. Probably had high expectations. Read a lot about the fact that users of Atzilut easily destroy universes.:heh:
Reinhard very charismatic villain.:cool:

It's in Rea and Three Colors routes

[Darkking]

It's in Rea and Three Colors routes
Well, I thought so.
No one will tell the name of the song that plays in the final battle with Reinhard on twilight beach?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Well, I thought so.
No one will tell the name of the song that plays in the final battle with Reinhard on twilight beach?

It's been a long time so I can't recall but all the songs are in the extra at the start menu

[Darkking]

It's been a long time so I can't recall but all the songs are in the extra at the start menu
In the library of music of this song is not. =(

Another question:
If Legion Reincarnation increases soul power to the level of the God, then everyone in the Legion Tenma Yato is metaverse level? All that distinguishes them is the level of Taikyoku?

[Cosmic Eagle]

What does it sound like? Gregorian chanting or what?

Yes...at their peak, yes. But they are not like that all the time. Ren has to actually expend effort to amp them and he can't do that for sustained periods due to holding off Hajun.

Thus why you see that they are not one-shotting the KKK cast from the very start before they received their power up from Hajun

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Found some sweet images while skimming through the net.

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy175/dragor99/468d5b3a970a304ea0d1c85ad1c8a786c8175c3b_zps26d564 61.gif (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/dragor99/media/468d5b3a970a304ea0d1c85ad1c8a786c8175c3b_zps26d564 61.gif.html)

Finally found this one after a while. Worth the effort lol

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy175/dragor99/main_visual-1024x679_zpse0d056f9.jpg (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/dragor99/media/main_visual-1024x679_zpse0d056f9.jpg.html)

[shmaster]

What does it sound like? Gregorian chanting or what?

It is the theme that plays when Kemono Dono is getting beheaded.
Yeah, IIRC they got that song from a different composer which is why the song is not included in the library or the OST.

[Ougon]

It's called "Shade and Darkness."

[Cosmic Eagle]

It's called "Shade and Darkness."

Ohhh this one...

sm12022601


Also....YOU ARE ALIVE o__O

[Darkking]

Sempai route is finished. I did not understand the ending can someone explain what happened after the battle of Mercury and Reinhard?:confused:
And how to start the route Three Colors?:heh:

It's called "Shade and Darkness."
Yes! Thank you!

[Cosmic Eagle]

http://www.light.gr.jp/light/event/happylightlive/index.html




NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!



I CAN'T GO T____T

[Kirayuki]

http://www.light.gr.jp/light/products/bansenjin/index.html

Guys, teaser site is finally open!

[Cosmic Eagle]

Lol why she looks like female Dan?

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Hm. My phone can't load the website properly. Can't see any images

Judging by the website coding though, is this a sequel to Senshinkan or is it the "Amantes Amentes" equivalent for it?

[Kirayuki]

It's the sequel

[AkitoW013]

Lol why she looks like female Dan?

Maybe someone of his family.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Okay, got to a pc. Fell in love with the teaser song.

I can already hear the agonizing screams of the voice actors.

[Ougon]

http://www.light.gr.jp/light/products/bansenjin/index.html

Guys, teaser site is finally open!

Fanboy screams at that OST!!! Any info on this aside from it being a sequel?

[Kirayuki]

Well, so far it seems to be the product that Masada will put out for Light 15th anniversary. So honestly, not much is known AFAIK

[Cosmic Eagle]

Also that Bansenjin music and sight resembles....a Masada-ified Touhou Project

wwwwwww

[shmaster]

The question will be, can this game be on time?
Masada games has the habit of not meeting the schedules....

[Righteousness]

Would someone care to give an outline of the general cosmology of Dies Irae/KKK?

[Ougon]

Maybe someone of his family.

Little sister? :heh::heh::heh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Would someone care to give an outline of the general cosmology of Dies Irae/KKK?

Like how? Basically everything from Snake on is an infinite multi-metaverse.

But that's meaningless because it is really dependent on the property of the Hadou God. Everyone after Snake just uses his format so to speak. (Except Hajun who seeks to eradicate everything)


Cosmology in Shinza is a mutable thing totally dependent on the Throne God because the God IS the canvas in a sense. The Throne God determines the cosmology.

[Ougon]

By the way, did we ever get a twintail from Masada before or is she going to be the first one?

[Cosmic Eagle]

By the way, did we ever get a twintail from Masada before or is she going to be the first one?

errm...Ryusui?

[Ougon]

errm...Ryusui?

Ah..................! Completely forgot about her.:heh::heh::heh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

Ah..................! Completely forgot about her.:heh::heh::heh:

It's very easy to....

[Righteousness]

Like how? Basically everything from Snake on is an infinite multi-metaverse.

But that's meaningless because it is really dependent on the property of the Hadou God. Everyone after Snake just uses his format so to speak. (Except Hajun who seeks to eradicate everything)


Cosmology in Shinza is a mutable thing totally dependent on the Throne God because the God IS the canvas in a sense. The Throne God determines the cosmology.
What exactly is a 'Throne', for starters. Or a Hadou God.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

What exactly is a 'Throne', for starters. Or a Hadou God.

The Throne can be said to be the seat of power in the Shinza series. It grants its occupant jurisdiction over the souls of the universes Throne subjugates (aka the Multiverse) and the ability to project a Hadou God's law over said multiverse. Due to the nature of Throne, only Hadou Gods can occupy it.

That being said, Hadou Gods are super beings who have outward desires. An example of one would be Hajun. His Law is "Everything die, leave only me", which in turn eradicates everything that is not him. A more benevolent example would be Marie's Law "Omnia Vincit Amor", which grants anyone a chance to find happiness.

[Cosmic Eagle]

It's not project said Law over the "multiverse" per se


In the first place, before the Snake, the Shinza verse was a singular universe because that was the property of Satanel and those before him.


But the Snake himself is an infinite multiverse.....so when he took the Throne, that property of posessing an infinite multiverse became imprinted in it. That basically made the cosmological canvas the size of the Snake.

Hadou Atziluth will naturally fill the whole canvas even without the Throne. But by default a Hadou God will take the Throne because only one Hadou God can exist at the same time due to the clash of their Laws (Throne God vs the new Hadou God)

It is only with Marie's Law that allows multiple Hadou Gods to coexist do we get essentially multiple infinite multiverses layered on top of each other (because each Hadou God by default fills the whole canvas)


What the Throne actually does is to allow you to subjugate and imprint your own Law over the whole canvas with much more certainty than without it because the Throne will grant you posession of all the souls in the canvas.

Souls are the real determinant of cosmological size and power (AKA Taikyouku rank) in Shinza. Technically, a universe with more souls should be denser and "larger" than a physically bigger multiverse but with much less souls and the God who posesses that universe would beat another who posesses the multiverse.

[Righteousness]

How exactly does conceptual combat work? I'm aware that people try to use their Taikyouku to map over each other's concepts, but of little else.


Also does anyone know of an English translation of Dies Irae/KKK (or Paradise Lost)? I've heard there aren't any, but it can't hurt to try.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

It's not project said Law over the "multiverse" per se


In the first place, before the Snake, the Shinza verse was a singular universe because that was the property of Satanel and those before him.


But the Snake himself is an infinite multiverse.....so when he took the Throne, that property of posessing an infinite multiverse became imprinted in it. That basically made the cosmological canvas the size of the Snake.

Actually, I meant that the reason only Hadou Gods can occupy the Throne is because their Law is "outward" - because it's actually applicable more than just them. While Gudou Gods are "me", Hadou ones are "more than just me". Of course, this is under the thought that Satanel and the gods preceding him were hadou and some other facts I picked up from this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Also does anyone know of an English translation of Dies Irae/KKK (or Paradise Lost)? I've heard there aren't any, but it can't hurt to try.

While there isn't a full translation patch for any of the Masada games, a kind soul who goes by the name of Garejei has translated certain scenes of Dies Irae, KKK and Senshinkan. He has his own blog. You can look him up

Though translations of any magnitude for Paradise Lost are virtually nonexistent at this point, unfortunately.

[kittybear]

Shitty outline
Would someone care to give an outline of the general cosmology of Dies Irae/KKK?

Shitty Cosmology png : http://imgur.com/6CwNrpy

Throne God is the Godhead. I am everything, everything is me.
万象の根源として、総てを司る主として、真実のこいつが表出しようとしているのだ。
その場所とは、すなわち太極座。既存の法を流れ出させている事象の中心、宇宙の核だ。

Trying to reach the throne? -> Godhead's reflex kills you.
殺意。殺意。宇宙の根源たる事象が懐き、叩きつけてくる必滅の審判。その直撃を受けただけであらゆるモノは 消滅し、存在の痕跡すら残さず溶けていくに違いない。

Godhead is the meta-scenario writer of the setting.
万象、己が脚本に踊る演者にすぎぬと断じた通り、並行宇宙の配列すら自在に操る彼にとって、事象の時系列な ど意味は無い。




Hadou Gods are walking universes who defines their own boundaries, and they infinitely expands its desire until everything in setting has is subjugated to their laws (integrated). They are the gods that can integrate/"sit" unto the throne as the next godhead.

Hadou Gods by default cannot co-exist without Marie, they would devour one another until only one them is left alive to occupy the Throne and become the Godhead.
Their desire mainly revolves themselves "I want the world to stop" "I love everything" "I want to stalk a goddess" and etc.

Their battle is above inflicting harm, but a process of overwriting the cosmic law of one another. Through this desire, wishes and craving/longing. Gudou gods require to physically hit each other to overwrite each other’s law.
「念と念。祈りと祈り。渇望と渇望のぶつかり合い。お互い相手に触れもせず、睨み合うだけでも成立する。あ るいはこうした作法こそが、正統派の神座闘争なのだろうが…

Gudou god, unlike the Hadou gods who are vying to be the next Throne God to be next era's Godhead, Gudou gods are walking universes. They can't occupy the throne.
Their desire mainly revolves themselves "I want to a hero" "I want to become something" "I want to the best possible self" and etc.

Apoptosis is suicide made manifest. The godhead's desire killing himself.

Hadou >>...>> Gudou




Atziluth-Tai - The law of the throne. It's wellspring of the concepts that operate in the setting, basically the mechanics of the cosmology itself. ThroneGod's define their own mechanics so Paralost, Dies Irae and KKK are governed by different set of rules. Aside from the macro mechanics (Atziluth-Tai and etc) of setting.


すなわちその世界における絶対法であり、そうした決まり事を定めた張本人を指す。
For example would be like how life forms perceive and act, how the world looks like, how the soul is managed after death (whether or not it is erased from existence after death or trolled, like mercury shoving you back to your parents womb after you die reliving your life), whether the concept of <insert here>ex. reincarnation exist or not.



A tear in reality to the throne were the godhead sits. Usually generated by a clash of Hadou Atziluth-Tai.


How exactly does conceptual combat work? I'm aware that people try to use their Taikyouku to map over each other's concepts, but of little else.

Conceptual combat works by JoJo-ing their laws. And overwriting each others law.
For example Soujirou's taikyoku allows him to cut everything including concepts. In his fight with Shiori he cutting through her, ignoring speed, distance, concept of missing and infinite possibilities.
If you knock the taikyoku you also knockout the concepts that manifested from his desire.
Since both of them have the exactly the same taikyoku rank, both of them can offset each other's reason AKA asspulls.


　同時に爆轟する大音響。単体宇宙という超高密度の肉体同士が接触し、その瞬間に拳と剣で相手の理を無効化 して、本来殴れないものと斬れないものが叫喚しながら削り取られた。
　吹き飛ぶ肉片はどれだけ僅かな質量だろうと神の欠片で、宇宙の欠片だ。血の一滴でも天体に匹敵するもので あり、ゆえにそれを破壊した攻撃の深さは計り知れない。
….
　互いが有するその常識を、己が世界の常識で破るのだ。言うまでもなく太極戦闘の基本であり、以降もその繰 り返しとなる。
….

　ひとたび抜けば何であろうと斬り捨てるという切断宇宙は、究極無比にして剣戟の到達点に他ならない。彼と 交わったというだけで、必ず何かを裂かれている。
…
　どれだけ斬っても、斬っても、紫織の像がなくならない。自分と交わり、彼女が斬られずにいるという可能性 を無にすることができないのだ。

　それはどのような確率なのだろう。分からないし知りえない。だが具現している以上はそんな未来があるとい うこと。紫織はそれを紡げるということ。

　つまり彼女と向き合う限り、自分もまた無限になれる。永遠に斬り続け、永劫に試せるのだ。剣は何処までも 鋭くなって、求道は果てなく続いていく。



連続する剣風は激しさを増し、なおも数多の可能性を斬断する。　しかし結果は変わらない。

　宗次郎の神威に空振りという概念は存在しないため総て命中しているが、致命にまでは至っていない紫織が必 ず何処かにいるのだ。

　もっとも軽傷で凌いだ可能性を重ねて繋ぎ続けている。ゆえに見た目の負傷は増えているが、それを戦果と思 えるほど宗次郎は目出度くない。

「どうして、死なないんですか？」

「本気で斬っているんですよ？」

「腕を、足を、胴を、首を──完璧に狙っているのに、何度も何度も断っているのに」
…
　すなわち――求められるのは、真実絶対に躱せない一の太刀。

　雄叫びをあげて斬滅へと走る宗次郎を紫織は無数の可能性と共に迎え撃つ。
…
　ここに絶対の劍を編む。まさしく万象の座すら切断するため。

　ここに究極の蜃を編む。まさしく無量大数の壁すら超えるため。

[Cosmic Eagle]

What's Demonbane 2?

And lol....when I saw imgur I thought you made childish crayon diagram on MS Paint :heh:

[kittybear]

What's Demonbane 2?


Shiori's infinite possibilities asspull is more or less similar to summon infinite demonbanes:heh: and it was supposed be shioribanes.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Actually, I meant that the reason only Hadou Gods can occupy the Throne is because their Law is "outward" - because it's actually applicable more than just them. While Gudou Gods are "me", Hadou ones are "more than just me". Of course, this is under the thought that Satanel and the gods preceding him were hadou and some other facts I picked up from this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

Yes, that's basically it.

Throne is just a spiritual "machine" to force your Hadou onto the entirety of reality

(and by that meaning more like to complete the subjugation by incorporating all souls into you since as a Hadou your Law would cover all reality without the Throne anyway)

Shiori's infinite possibilities asspull is more or less similar to summon infinite demonbanes:heh: and it was supposed be shioribanes.

Oh that....I see....I think it more like her hentai desires than Demonbane

[Cosmic Eagle]

Atziluth-Tai - The law of the throne. It's wellspring of the concepts that operate in the setting, basically the mechanics of the cosmology itself. ThroneGod's define their own mechanics so Paralost, Dies Irae and KKK are governed by different set of rules. Aside from the macro mechanics (Atziluth-Tai and etc) of setting.


すなわちその世界における絶対法であり、そうした決まり事を定めた張本人を指す。
For example would be like how life forms perceive and act, how the world looks like, how the soul is managed after death (whether or not it is erased from existence after death or trolled, like mercury shoving you back to your parents womb after you die reliving your life), whether the concept of <insert here>ex. reincarnation exist or not.




I don't think the Throne Law is called Atziluth / Taikyouku specifically.

Atziluth/Taikyouku is simply the term given to Hadou and Gudou ability

More specific for Throne Law would be 第Ⅹ天 with the actual names being 永劫回帰, 輪廻転生, 大欲界天狗道 etc

[UchihaBeast]

Shiori's infinite possibilities asspull is more or less similar to summon infinite demonbanes:heh: and it was supposed be shioribanes.
Outside question '3' : can someone in KKK beat Elder God Demonbane '3'

[shmaster]

Someone reminds me, among the Demonbanes that Elder God Demonbane can summon, is there a one arm Demonbane?

If yes, only Hajun can compete, everything else die.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Someone reminds me, among the Demonbanes that Elder God Demonbane can summon, is there a one arm Demonbane?

If yes, only Hajun can compete, everything else die.

What...the new Dyn Freaks is out?

And it should be...it's every possible Demonbane after all

Outside question '3' : can someone in KKK beat Elder God Demonbane '3'

Yatou (And maybe the Snake too) should be a draw. Hajun would be overkill

[UchihaBeast]

oh, tks
By the way, anyone know how to get Marie's Atziluth chant like in this video?
I would be very grateful if you show me how to get them chant together in the game :D
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22565599

[shmaster]

What...the new Dyn Freaks is out?

DYN was already finished a couple of month ago.
They just haven't publish it in full volumes yet.

Either way, the one arm Demonbane, aka God of Destruction Demonbane probably is the most broken thing that came out of Haganeya verse so far.
Haganeya verse is currently in total destruction right now due to the God of Destruction Demonbane, and the DYN world is the only remaining Haganeya world left.
Azazoth, Yog, and Nyarl are all so terribelly busted that they only have a few avatars left (Asana, Mugen, Narukami, Sphinx, Clockworks Phantom) and are in hiding of that world.

Mugen's real intention is to recover Azazoth's power to make new worlds before the God of Destruction Demonbane finds them.

[Cosmic Eagle]

DYN was already finished a couple of month ago.
They just haven't publish it in full volumes yet.

Either way, the one arm Demonbane, aka God of Destruction Demonbane probably is the most broken thing that came out of Haganeya verse so far.
Haganeya verse is currently in total destruction right now due to the God of Destruction Demonbane, and the DYN world is the only remaining Haganeya world left.
Azazoth, Yog, and Nyarl are all so terribelly busted that they only have a few avatars left (Asana, Mugen, Narukami, Sphinx, Clockworks Phantom) and are in hiding of that world.

Mugen's real intention is to recover Azazoth's power to make new worlds before the God of Destruction Demonbane finds them.

Hmm...so it seems the One Arm is around....Yatou's level then. It may be a bit much for the Suigin to handle


Unless it's shown that it's power is ever increasing with no upper limit, there's no way it's even scratching Hajun...

[kittybear]

Outside question '3' : can someone in KKK beat Elder God Demonbane '3'

http://i.imgur.com/m2uwkMW.jpg?1
Like hell Yakou-sama is going to lose to some shitty super robot!:frustrated:

There's also Shiori's infinite possibilities...the possibility of a Shiori driving a demonbane.:uhoh:

[Cosmic Eagle]

But really though...there's no way any singular Gudou God is coming close to Demonbane. It has to be a Hadou God...or Hajun



Anyway, a really pertinent question....

Why is the Suigin known as NEET



But the Great Tengu isn't?




Hajun is arguably the biggest NEET in Shinza....Truly the Supreme Godhead of all hikikomori everywhere

[erneiz_hyde]

Btw, I also have a tongue-in cheek question.

How on earth do the shinza-verse character actually communicate with one another? Does everyone actually speaks Japanese?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Btw, I also have a tongue-in cheek question.

How on earth do the shinza-verse character actually communicate with one another? Does everyone actually speaks Japanese?

They speak static if you are from different Throne world lol



And if they can eventually get round even static.... What are mere human languages? :heh:


And in Dies actually...yes, they DO speak Japanese. IIRC, the L.D.O people are quite fluent in many areas actually

[erneiz_hyde]

And in Dies actually...yes, they DO speak Japanese. IIRC, the L.D.O people are quite fluent in many areas actually
Really? I can't quite picture most of the members sitting with a dictionary in hand learning languages.

Actually I think I can, but it would be weird and bizarre as fuck.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Really? I can't quite picture most of the members sitting with a dictionary in hand learning languages.

Actually I think I can, but it would be weird and bizarre as fuck.

Well, IIRC, Kei did mention in the early chapters near the start that she received training from the other L.D.O members in languages and other sciences

[Righteousness]

Alright, thanks. That was certainly eye-opening. What's the general power-level of Dies Irae/KKK? They seem pretty insane.