High School DxD Light Novel - Volume 22 [Archive] - Page 11

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 07:21

Yeah, it's in Volume 20, around when Ddraig calls Ise's transformation "Cardinal Crimson Promotion [Diabolos Dragon]". Rizevim then says that Ise became the new Super Devil and dubs him "Dragon Maou". But too bad that DxD G got nerfed. It shouldn't be Super Devil level anymore unless it's still in the general power-level area of a Super Devil.

I was trying to find the part where Ise says that it's hard to even stand with his body screaming in pain because of him having a strange power inside him. That's also there in the same chapter. This:
—Ise, this state can only be maintained for a very short amount of time.
I see, I only had a very brief amount of time. That could be a few seconds, tens of seconds, or even a few minutes. Regardless of that, it wasn’t long. —That’s because my body was already screaming out. There was a strange power circulating around inside my body. It felt as though my body would be torn apart if I moved even just a little bit. Well, I should hurry up and do something.

Well, I was thinking it might've been "too much power," so I'm partially wrong here. But, ah, well.

Anyway, about the Demon Swords and the Holy Swords. Recall that Xenovia is someone who was born with the ability to wield Holy Swords already in her naturally. She's a natural-born Holy Sword wielder. Everyone else we've seen wielding them was given the ability artificially with the Church's experiments with the Holy Element, though it was specialized for Excalibur specifically. Irina also said she was given that element. The souls of all of Kiba's past comrades from the Church facility he was in gave him theirs (except for Tosca, maybe, since she didn't die). The Demon Swords can be wielded by Devils since they have Demonic Power, and also perhaps by the people they choose themselves.

Sparda4

2017-01-30, 07:32

Well that explains it a bit i just found it odd that you can use a holy swords so easy but demon swords you can't, it just seemed so out of place and weird.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 07:54

You can use demonic swords easily. Think about the ones Kiba created with his base SG. They were demonic swords too, right?
Plus, nobody but Xenovia can wield Durandel except the previous wielder. So, Gram is the demonic counterpart of Durandel.

Sparda4

2017-01-30, 07:57

Gram is the counterpart to Caliburn because Gram is the emperor of demon swords while Caliburn is the holy king sword Gram currently while Kiba is using it on the level of Durandal.

Edit: now i get it, well we kinda have more proof that you can find a way to use holy swords more easily but i get what you mean. Gram can't be used by anybody or any other demon sword in his class the same is true for Caliburn Durandal and the Excalibur.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 08:04

I meant, just like Gram can't be used by anybody having the caliber to do so, Durandel also can't be used by the ones who are even able to wield the Excalibur.
Was referring to this-

found it odd that you can use a holy swords so easy

EDIT: Yeah, was trying to type less as I was typing on a phone back then.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 08:18

Again, it's Durandal. And the iPhone's auto-correct shouldn't be able to mess it up because it's a sword that's recorded in legend and the dictionary knows about it.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 08:23

I'm using an android phone, I have disabled auto-correct, it was entirely my fault. :heh:

When I say, I am using a phone, it just means I am not going to check the spelling by going to another tab. Its just too painful!

@Sparda Just saw the bold a in Durandal, didn't notice on the phone... :D

Sparda4

2017-01-30, 10:33

My curse is that i try to learn how everything legendary or myth related is written so that's why i'm not corrected as often. And i mean come on Caliburn, Durandal just sounds so awesome you need to memorize how they are written

katokateki

2017-01-30, 10:50

I miss my old signature text! But yeah, my knowledge is shallower than you may think!

Proof- What's Caliburn? :heh:

But yeah, it's kinda like my habit that I never focus on learning the words/dates, other such things which can be looked up later. You may call me lazy, but I'm generally too excited with the ongoing story to stop and look at the spellings! I didn't remember trihexa's name after its first mention. Next day, I was reading again about it in another volume and only learnt it's name when there was no relatable context next to its name.

After reading this forum half way through, it just occurred to me that trihexa was tri+hexa meaning 3x6. Idk why I'm like this. Sorry!

CCPDarkraiRules

2017-01-30, 11:08

Well, Caliburn in Highschool DxD is the sword in the stone from stories of King Arthur and in real life aspects of it and Excalibur get fused together in other works of fiction.

Don't worry about Trihexa's name because I didn't noticed its meaning until you pointed it out.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 11:24

Yeah, I didn't try to remember the name of Arthur's sword. Just remembered it being like a ruler sword that can control anything. :heh:

My marks in history once used to be poor for obvious reasons. That's when I found out this habit of mine...

Idk why my mistakes always end up taking up 5-6 posts! :D

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 11:26

@CCP: Tri means 3 and hexa is referring to the number 6. And the Beast is also called 666. Put two and two together.

@Katokateki: Shouldn't you try to fix that habit, then? And yeah, Caliburn is the Holy King Sword. But it originates from the legends of King Arthur, hence why the descendant of Arthur Pendragon in this story had it.

CCPDarkraiRules

2017-01-30, 11:45

Yeah, I though that the hexa part meant hex as in a curse not hexa as in 6.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 11:53

I can't help it! I get too immersed I guess. Its subconscious! But yeah, will try to remember the particular names from now on. I notice and learn everything the second time I read something as I know the story already...

But damn, my mistakes do get publicity! I think its because this is my first ever forum or something. But yeah, thanks for pointing them out!

I think Cleria's daughter noticed Ise probably because of his relationship with Rias and the story behind it. That could be the reason why she trusted Ise without knowing his potential as a King and decided to give him a chance. (Yeah, I'm trying to change the topic here :D)

Sparda4

2017-01-30, 11:57

Now that were talking about the Pendragons Who do you guys will think will win Arthur or Kiba, They did agree to fight when Issei and Vali fight, And what kind of benifit does Issei gain from Le fay being his magician and what does Le fay gain from the chichiryuutei :D

Edit: Ups two topic changes what will we do? (sarcasm) :D

katokateki

2017-01-30, 12:11

1st- Kiba can't stand a chance against Arthur unless he fully utilises Gram's potential. After that, Arthur still seems far away.

2nd-Ise being an exceptional devil, deserves an exceptional magician in order to grow with full compatibility. She may even find new ways to ignite Ise's interests in the world of magic. But honestly, they may end up researching about oppai with Rias being the test subject.

3rd-Le Fay is Ise's fan. She doesn't care much about the benefits. She is biased in that regard. And probably the Oppai related research.

4th- Don't forget my topic.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 12:19

@Katokateki:
On #1: Agreed.
On #2: I feel sorry for Rias because I think you're right about those experiments. That being said, though, like I said before, hopefully he'll learn magic for some serious battle-oriented purposes too. If it turns out that he can, of course.
On #3: Yeah, she's a fan of his and as such may not care about benefits and such, but she might still get some benefits. Like power as well as having the Sekiryuutei on her side.
On #4: Well, remember that this only applies if Bina is Cleria's daughter, which might not actually be the case.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 12:30

Yeah, wonder what Ishibumi would think if Bina wasn't Cleria's daughter and he came across these speculations. But yeah, that point does make the Cleria thing even more sensible.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 12:33

I would think it makes it less sensible, though, no? I mean, your argument about why Cleria's daughter would want to join Ise's peerage only makes sense if Bina is Cleria's daughter to begin with. And Cleria might not even have had any children at all.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 12:39

Yeah, no. I was saying, that that point provided a base to develop the character of Cleria's daughter Bina. So, it would not seem forced to have her reach out to Ise.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 12:45

But yeah, again, there's no real proof yet. Not to mention that your theory is weak and can easily crumble if it turns out that Cleria had no children or that, even if she had even one, Bina is not her child.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 12:48

Hey, that's not my theory, I'm just backing it with as many points as I can think of, as I don't remember any other theory being this good. Some new guy posted it and I don't remember his name(sorry!).

Do you have any other theory in mind that is stronger than this one? I could back it up! :D

B214

2017-01-30, 13:24

And Ishibumi decides to throw in the ultimate trolling. He won't reveal who Bina is even after DxD is finish.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 13:39

That would be worst kind of ultimate troll. Hopefully it won't happen.

@Katokateki: The theory itself isn't that good anyway. Sorry.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 13:44

Hey! Don't say that! What's wrong with the theory? We agreed she could be a stranger and that theory fits every criteria. I mean, its the best amongst the others we have had till now. There could be other theories which are strong but please somebody point them out.

Gogz-kun

2017-01-30, 14:10

My theory certainly can be broken if the author says Cleria does not have children, but he has not yet said, so the more information about Bina is not presented or someone else comes up with a better theory I will continue to believe that she is the daughter of Cleria. Plus it's just an idea that I thought was interesting for her identity, maybe (probably) it's something different. Sorry if it's not a good theory for you, if you have a better idea please say, maybe it's better than mine and make me change my mind.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 14:17

Oh it was you! Sorry dude, forgot your name!
Well, since the character has to be new and a stranger to us, all the speculations are going to be weak anyway!

Though I hope it's not someone from the future, her wearing a mask would make sense. Also, not some revived devil!

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 14:29

Again, I point to the theory about Binah, from the Tree of Life from Norse Mythology. Do a search on that on Wikipedia and then read up on Innovate Clear on the DxD Wikia. If Bina is her real name, which it could be, then this completely fits.

Also, how long were Cleria and Yaegaki together before they were found out? And does Cleria have children at all?

Well, actually, Bina could still be the possessor of Innovate Clear while also being Cleria's daughter. But, again, how long were Cleria and Yaegaki together before they were found and do they have children at all? And if they do have children, could any of them being as old as Bina is now?

katokateki

2017-01-30, 14:38

The together thing is Bina's parents' private matter :p
But yeah, I guess it took at least a year to find and kill them?

The together thing sure is a downer.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 14:48

The question of how long they were together for is important for supporting or debunking the overall theory of Bina being Cleria's daughter. Glossing over it is the same running away from this reality.

If they were together for a year, though, doesn't that mean they had a chance to do "it"? Though the question is if their love and relationship were at a point yet where they could've done it, at that time. If so, then how long ago was it? If their child could be as old as Bina, then we have a case. Otherwise, we don't.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 14:57

Yeah, a lot of factors have to align properly in order for this to be possible. There's also the added period of 9 months and the time it took for her to get pregnant, if they did bang eachother that often.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 15:08

Yep. Which is why it's going to be a problem. This theory smells like it's doomed from a mile away unless all the factors do line up properly.

CCPDarkraiRules

2017-01-30, 15:14

Honestly, Bina being Cleria's daughter is an interesting theory I agree with DragonOsman about it but I like Bina being member of the Beilal clan through either a sister, daughter or relative to Diehauser.

Gogz-kun

2017-01-30, 15:26

That's why I said in my previous post that the theory was perhaps not right. Cleria and Yaegaki may have been together for a month and then they were murdered, or they may have been together for a year and were murdered. We do not know, because we do not have detailed information about how long their relationship was or whether they had a child. But it is possible that the theory makes sense if Cleria had enough time to have a gestation of at least seven months, gave birth to Bina, knowing that she was going to die she gave her daughter to Diehauser (or asked someone to give it to him) And asked him to take care of her. She was murdered and Diehauser has been creating Bina somewhere in the territory of the Belial family during those years. After growing up being trained by the champion and his nobility, she becomes powerful and learns from them about the qualifying games (which would explain why she is so skilled in the qualifying games, even though she has never participated in a nobility). Then for some reason she tries to approach Issei by testing him to see if he is a worthy king for her. This is purely speculation. As you said, if Cleria never had a child the theory does not make sense and also has the question of time, but also nothing has been said (author) that completely contradicts it. So it's very complicated that it is, but there is still a chance. What you said about the meaning of her name is very interesting. Perhaps Innovate Clear has knowledge-based skills (which would make her incredibly strong by combining her longinus with the ability of the Belial clan), as well as Valerie's holy grail of knowledge to her about life.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 15:46

So if there wasn't enough time for her to grow as she is now naturally, you're saying they would've used technology to help her grow faster? If so, I don't like that. And my respect for Diehauser will lessen a bit if this turns out to be the case.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 15:49

@Gogz Yeah, right. But that seven month thing seems more like a Grigori business.
Also, having his cousin's daughter with him and still going to such lengths to seek revenge and then crying to find out that his cousin was happy in the end seems weird.

Also, please press enter after a couple of lines(where relevant enough) so that it's more readable. I get lost reading between so many lines on this mobile screen! This may be just my problem though...

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 15:58

No, well, other people do have that problem. He should at split it up into more paragraphs.

Anyway, yeah, you have a good point about it being weird that he wanted revenge for Cleria even though he had her daughter with him the entire time.

Gogz-kun

2017-01-30, 16:10

Seven months is just the minimum number of months for a baby to be born, it may be nine months, but it would still make sense because we do not know how long they were together.

About using technology to make it grow faster, really would be something horrible. But in volume 18 Zekrom Bael or Rias' father says that the territory of the city Khuo (hopefully the name is right) was over control of Bael's house for a time after Cleria died and before being given to Rias, Which again falls into the argument of not specifying time. This time can be 3, 8, 15 years before volume 1, it only remains to wait for volume 23 to show Bina's identity or at least show us more things about her.

About Diehauser I think he just wanted justice, after all his cousin was still murdered. It is not as if Bina would be in danger after all nobody else besides him and some more people he would trust would know that she exists. But it's still a bit strange ...

katokateki

2017-01-30, 16:19

It's Kuoh :D
But I guess Osman would point it out anyway. And see? The answer looks so much neater now!

AzazelDxD

2017-01-30, 16:20

Again, I point to the theory about Binah, from the Tree of Life from Norse Mythology. Do a search on that on Wikipedia and then read up on Innovate Clear on the DxD Wikia. If Bina is her real name, which it could be, then this completely fits.

Well, actually, Bina could still be the possessor of Innovate Clear while also being Cleria's daughter. But, again, how long were Cleria and Yaegaki together before they were found and do they have children at all? And if they do have children, could any of them being as old as Bina is now?

Is not the first time that I listen that.. the first time in DxD wiki... But is interesting...

I know thanks to twitter that Ishibumi is interested in the Church Trio, Ravel, Elmenhilde(yes, the character need more development), Dulio Team and Black in the Vol 23.. But I hope see important information about Binna in this volume.. or one image..

http://ishibumi.exblog.jp/

I never understood that of the unexpected older sister.(I'll have to wait for Vol 23).... A way to mention the future role of Bina in the team? The older sister of Issei Peerage? I heard that Issei was not the only son of Issei Parents.. But the others are death..

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 16:21

A healthy pregnancy lasts nine months. This a proven fact.

And the town they live is called Kuou. Some would spell it as "Kuoh," though.

Anyway, for Bina's age if she's Cleria's daughter: we really can't say for sure yet if there was enough time for her to be this old without them having to use technology. We don't know how long Cleria and Yaegaki were together for, and we don't know if they did "it" or not or even when they did it (if they did do it).

Edit: Two posts late.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 16:25

They are probably on the third floor of heaven right now, doing it. :D

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 16:32

That doesn't matter here. The kid they have won't be Bina at least, that's for sure.

Gogz-kun

2017-01-30, 16:34

He was just joking. Yes, but there are people who were born in seven months, spent some time in the hospital and then had a normal life, but you are also right. A healthy pregnancy is definitely nine months.

katokateki

2017-01-30, 16:35

Sorry, saw the opportunity, made the joke. Regretting it now! (Not really though).

Can they even have a child after being dead?

EDIT: @Gogz That's what we call a premature delivery, I guess. And the baby remains in the hospital for a while, otherwise being normal.

Gogz-kun

2017-01-30, 16:38

I guess not after all they do not have a body.

DragonOsman

2017-01-30, 16:42

Yeah, I guess they don't (if that's how things work in DxD on this).

And yeah, seven months would be a premature delivery. That's not healthy.

S.Freedom

2017-01-30, 21:48

Again, it's Durandal. And the iPhone's auto-correct shouldn't be able to mess it up because it's a sword that's recorded in legend and the dictionary knows about it.

Well if wikipedia is anything to go by, it can be spelled Durandal or Durendal.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durendal

katokateki

2017-01-30, 23:26

Yeah, maybe, thanks for bringing this topic up, well, I spelled it Durandel. So, there's no hope for that second a being e. He was talking about the second one. But I guess its surprising.
Maybe I read Durendal somewhere and got confused.

Sparda4

2017-01-31, 01:53

Yeah, I guess they don't (if that's how things work in DxD on this).

And yeah, seven months would be a premature delivery. That's not healthy.

Well i am a case of being born on the seventh month and i'm still alive, my right eye is half as good as my left but i can still live a nice life. It took me a bit longer to get on the same level of physical development but i'm all good now, so even if it's not healthy you can survive especially with modern tech and in some cases even thrive

Edit: Yeah my right is weaker because it wasn't corrected in time but oh well i'm just happy i'm not blind because if seen some in my town and it's kinda sad.

katokateki

2017-01-31, 01:56

Your right eye thing is it just the difference in power(lens) or something else? Because I too have weaker right eye and need more powerful correction lens.
Well I do know a few people being born a month or two early I guess and they were healthy!

DragonOsman

2017-01-31, 06:48

The pregnancy itself is premature, as a healthy pregnancy has to last 9 months, but I didn't say that someone born like that can't be healthy. You two have the proof (one is living proof himself).

I didn't know about that the first a in Durandal could be an e. But yeah, as Katokateki said, I was referring to the second a which he made an e. "Durandal"/"Durendal" vs. "Durandel".

katokateki

2017-01-31, 07:12

I think we should make a separate thread for my mistakes. :D

Sparda4

2017-01-31, 07:30

I think we should make a separate thread for my mistakes. :D

Nah we all make mistakes so it's all good
@osman Thanks for the compliment (i guess)

Edit: I'm not gonna double post so here what i want to talk about.
Back in vol 12 Issei had a chant that forshadowed his resurrection by Great Red and Ophis now what do you guys think does the dxd chant forshadow anything ?
Issei:*"I The Crimson Red Dragon dwelling within me, awaken from your dominance" Ophis:*"The Crimson Heavenly Dragon I possess within me, rise up to become a King" Ophis:*"The jet-black God of Infinity"Issei:*"The glorious Red God of Dreams" Both:*"Watch over the forbidden existence we shall become that transcends the boundaries"Both:*"We shall dance like radiance within the inferno!"

katokateki

2017-02-01, 06:00

Really? Vol 12 had a chant that predicted his resurrection?

DragonOsman

2017-02-01, 06:08

There was no such thing. He just appeared in the dreams of the Devil children in the Underworld and asked them to make the same pose as in the Oppai Dragon song while singing said song as a way to call him to them. Unless I'm forgetting a chant that was there.

I'm not sure if the chant for DxD G foreshadows something, though. Or since Ophis probably knows about Ddraig's invincible flame technique, she might've had Ise say alongside her, "We shall dance like radiance within the inferno!" as a foreshadowing for Ise getting those flames.

katokateki

2017-02-01, 06:13

"The glorious Red God of Dreams"

So, GR is the God of Dreams while Ophis is the God of Dragons? Them being called Dragon Gods may simply mean them being dragons and gods.

Sparda4

2017-02-01, 07:22

It's the Shalba fight chant in vol 12 that's what i'm thinking of but for some reason i can't find the trivia bit about it so you guys decide if i'm right or wrong on the forshadowing * *I, who is about to awaken* * *Am the Red Dragon Emperor who holds the truth of the king up high* * *Holding the infinite hopes and unbreakable dreams and walking the path of righteousness* * *I will become an Emperor of Crimson Dragon* * *And I will lead you to the Path of Heaven, glowing in deep crimson light!*

Edit: found it it's on the boosted gear page * Interestingly enough, Issei's second chant to use Cardinal Crimson Promotion, which was used against Shalba Beelzebub
, foreshadows Issei's resurrection at the hands of both*Ophis
*and*Great Red.

DragonOsman

2017-02-01, 15:58

@Katokateki: You took it out of context. Look at the whole chant. It calls Ophis "the jet-black God of Infinity" and Great Red "the glorious red God of Dreams". So it's more that Ophis is the Dragon God of Infinity and Great Red is Dragon God of Dreams.

@Sparda: It's not just foreshadowing in Volume 12. The first time Cardinal Crimson Promotion was used was in the fight against Sairaorg in Volume 10, in case you forgot.

katokateki

2017-02-01, 16:46

Just because there's colour mentioned before their names?
I mean normal gods can be coloured too!

DragonOsman

2017-02-01, 18:51

Yeah, but that part of the chant is referring specifically to Great Red and Ophis. The glorious red God of Dreams is Great Red and the jet-black God of Infinity is Ophis (and Ophis' power and her snakes are all black, too, while Great Red is, of course, a red Dragon). I mean, haven't you noticed a theme in the Juggernaut Drive, Emperio Juggernaut Over Drive, Cardinal Crimson Full Drive and Dragon ∞ Drive (also notice the word "Drive" in each one) chants where they all mention something about "dream" and "infinity"/"the infinite"? That's referring to Great Red and Ophis in case you haven't noticed. The "Dream" or anything about dreams in those chants refers to Great Red and "the Infinite" or anything about infinity refers in the same refers to Ophis. It's not that hard to understand.

katokateki

2017-02-02, 01:53

So, GR is the God of Dreams while Ophis is the God of Dragons? Them being called Dragon Gods may simply mean them being dragons and gods.

Where do you think I got the idea of GR being the God of Dreams? I know red means GR in this context and that's why I pointed out that GR is indeed a God, a god governing dreams, who happens to be in the form of a dragon.

And yeah, its not that hard to understand.

Sorry for being stupid! :heh:

EDIT: someone scared the shit out of me. So erased the EDIT. :D

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 06:31

I may have forgotten to answer your actual question, though I did notice what it was. I'll just point once again to the quote we saw earlier from the Volume 21 Afterword:

If Azazel’s plan didn’t exist, then even more gods would have been defeated. Its strength is roughly equivalent to a serious Great Red and Ophis in her prime, or perhaps even superior to them. It also noticed the abnormality of Ise, who inherited the power of both those Dragon Gods.

Look at the bolded text.

And just for reference, in case anyone wonders where the quote is from in the Afterword, here's the full paragraph:
Next is about the boss of the fourth arc. Rizevim has already prepared the stage for the event that readers hate very much. Thus, Aži Dahāka, Apophis and Trihexa were the best candidates for the enemies of the conclusion of the fourth arc. I especially enjoyed writing the fights of Aži Dahāka and Apophis. The character of Aži Dahāka was inspired by King Ghidorah[4]. And because of that, it had the feel of a boss when I was writing it. I was very happy to be able to write about this massive three-headed dragon like a monster. Apophis himself is a mass of unpredictable darkness. No matter how Issei attacked, he was unable to cause any damage. Aside from borrowing an extraordinarily powerful attack power, only a god named after the sun would be able to defeat him. Trihexa is considered to be a true monster. It could easily destroy the entire world. This time, it also caused massive amounts of damage to the territories of each faction, and it is also the most destructive force in DxD. If Azazel’s plan didn’t exist, then even more gods would have been defeated. Its strength is roughly equivalent to a serious Great Red and Ophis in her prime, or perhaps even superior to them. It also noticed the abnormality of Ise, who inherited the power of both those Dragon Gods.

katokateki

2017-02-02, 06:47

Did I ask the same thing at two places? :heh:

Answered it on the other thread!

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 07:08

You asked it here. I posted it there because of my own misunderstanding, so it's my bad.

katokateki

2017-02-02, 07:30

Oh... Yeah it's fine.

Did you read Life 5 Part 1 yet?

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 10:14

Not yet. Got occupied with reading other LNs' updates.

katokateki

2017-02-02, 10:30

Your occupation with so many novels makes me kinda jealous :P

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 11:26

Just read it.

Now I really wonder who Bina is.

By the way, about Bikou making his aura seem like Rias', I think it might actually be something only he and the first gen. Sun Wukong can do, due to being Sun Wukong. Bina probably really is a Devil. The only way for her to be Tiamat, if that's so, would be if Tiamat actually became a Devil. Perhaps by joining Ajuka's peerage. Though if she's in Ajuka's peerage, she may not join Ise's peerage after all since there would be no reason to do so (unless she does have a reason). But I'm just throwing out an idea that was already mentioned before. I'm also not fully convinced that it's this, either. I really still think that Bina is not Tiamat.

But yeah, that being said, hopefully it's revealed soon who she is.

Anyway, on those critics and reviews of the Sekiryuutei Team. Man, I don't like it. Too harsh. And besides, they themselves said it: he's new to being a King. Cut him some slack. I mean, after all, other teams also made mistakes. I bet it's just those reporters focusing on Ise more because he's a fan favorite and also the leader of a powerful team.

That kid complaining about him not saying "oppai," though. I understand that he's a kid and doesn't really understand, but still. He's got better things to do than to say stuff like that in this tournament, you know? :heh:

katokateki

2017-02-02, 11:35

Yeah, I think its probably to make him "wish" for the first position. As I mentioned earlier, he didn't really have any motive/determination to win the Azazel Cup. He just wanted to win against all the biggies.

But now, it might turn into a catalyst and change his stupid self to listening mode. Which happened actually, he finally listened to Ravel's suggestions and decided to follow them.

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 11:36

He was already listening to Ravel, though. He even always says she's a great manager (well, now she's also his strategist, but yeah).

katokateki

2017-02-02, 11:41

Yeah, but he didn't "act" on what she said. He acted with his emotions in mind. But now, he has reasons to suppress his emotions.

anifreik

2017-02-02, 12:22

That kid complaining about him not saying "oppai," though. I understand that he's a kid and doesn't really understand, but still. He's got better things to do than to say stuff like that in this tournament, you know? :heh:

He's got to keep the image up. He's the Oppai Dragon! :heh:

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 12:51

Yeah, but he didn't "act" on what she said. He acted with his emotions in mind. But now, he has reasons to suppress his emotions.

What are you talking about? Can you show me one part where he didn't listen to her? More like, do even have anything to go on, really?

@anifriek: :heh: I guess so. :heh:

katokateki

2017-02-02, 13:27

Didn't she tell him before the tournament the same thing and still he managed to get bad ratings in 3 matches? Only after seeing that critical interview did he and Ravel decide to actually think of a strategy and Ise made a promise to her.

Actually I can't believe that Ravel gave her take on the tournament after Ise got bad ratings three matches in a row. Ise might just have said "yeah, okay" and just went onrampage in the match as he didn't care much about the Cup.

—Ise-sama, the idea of wanting to defeat everyone is impossible. From a social perspective, you should accept challenges from others, but your team has a limit, and if you accept every challenge, then the team will fall apart because it cannot cope. Remember that you shouldn’t allow your score to decline unnecessarily.

My strategic advisor-sama truly has a perfect grasp of my psyche.

So he was having those thoughts on the battlefield. I can't believe Ravel warned him about that the first time here. Rias was already explaining this to Kiba before the tournament started.

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 13:54

katokateki

2017-02-02, 14:24

Okay, I even forgot that this thing started by me saying something wrong on a side note. I thought I had something to prove. :heh: Sorry I tend to forget things quickly.

So, I originally said that Ise gained the determination to play smartly thanks to the awful comments of critics and media. But assuming he was told the same before too was maybe because of the fact that Rias was telling Kiba the same thing and I thought it was Ise. So, there's no point arguing. I was wrong anyway.

I guess this thing is gonna be pointed out by a couple of more people. :D

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 15:02

Well, had Ise even shown up to the stadium yet when Rias explained that to Kiba? Jog my memory if he already had.

katokateki

2017-02-02, 15:15

Nope. :D
I even forgot that it was Rias explaining. Idk, I read it at a go maybe a month ago, that's why I forgot. And don't worry, my memory is the culprit here! :heh:

Sparda4

2017-02-02, 16:40

Whole text edit: @Kato I just gave you a whole heads up no need to panic lol. It happens from time to time even with the veterans.
So now that Issei got his heads up on the tournament situation by Ravel what do you guys think will she play a bigger role in the future other then strategist and manager ? For example being an actual bishop ?

katokateki

2017-02-02, 16:42

Which paragraph?? Thanks, I'll remove it, but which one,?
Okay, removing it!!
EDIT: done. Well, thanks I guess. Don't wanna piss N0m@n off!
And that guest thing, was scary as hell!

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 17:57

@Sparda4: She's three-in-one for Ise: Bishop, manager and strategist. In the team and peerage she's his Bishop and also doubles as strategist, while for his work and business and stuff she's his manager.

Sparda4

2017-02-02, 18:11

I meant combat she's a phenex so she's not in as much danger from damage as the rest and has enhanced level's of demonic energy so in turn can regen more and/or faster if she goes out onto the front for some reason(doubt it but she might) or she can stand back and light the whole field on fire even if it's not high level dragon fire phenex fire isn't something you can just shrug off unless your middle-top tier god class

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 18:17

Or unless you're a Dragon or a High-class Devil with good defense against Phoenix flames (name of the Devil clan is "Phenex," but the legendary creature is called "Phoenix")? But yeah, I get your point. Letting her do that would have its benefits. But it's not like she's that strong yet, is it? She also said Raiser let her fight or do anything else. Their mother traded her from him because he wasn't using her well.

But again, she's going to do stuff as Ise's Bishop. Ise isn't Raiser, so I'm sure he'll use her well unlike that stupid brother of hers.

Sparda4

2017-02-02, 18:24

Raiser is your stereotypical older brother give him some slack, i hated his guts for quite a long time but looked passed that, so i won't and nor can i blame raiser for not wanting his sister to fight like at all but i do hope that he will show that he changed from that asshole back in volume 3 or 4 to someone who you would be willing to go out get a couple of drinks and watch a few girls in a bar.

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 18:37

Yeah, he's a swell enough guy now and he did care for his sister. But then you could also say he cared for her way too much. I bet even Ravel herself would be fed up with it.

But this is about how Ise will use her and like I said, I hope he uses her well.

Sparda4

2017-02-02, 18:55

Well i think Ravel will know how to use herself first then issei will but i could be(and hope i am) wrong. But you know what's interesting about Ravel ? What her mother said. Supremacy, i don't know the exact qoute but Lady Phenex did say that Issei should hold Ravel back as much as he can because if she get's loose that's trouble. I'm imterested in finding out what's up with that.

DragonOsman

2017-02-02, 18:59

Yeah, she said Ravel could roll him up into her own pace and lead him to the path of Supremacy if he isn't careful, so he should be careful and try to hold back that part of her. I'd actually forgotten about this, so thanks for reminding me.

But shouldn't she be on Vali's side, then? The Hakuryuukou is the one that chose Supremacy (though the Sekiryuutei chose Destruction and that's not exactly Ise's thing either - he just has to do that at times to protect those he cares about).

Sparda4

2017-02-02, 19:19

Vali's the next TRUE lucifer if my theory holds water but in that context you right but i mean come on As Azazel said " The White One desires power while the Red One desires women, both desires are surprisingly simple and pure" Vali already has (most) of what he want's poor issei on the other hand get's screwed over by fate and karma and what's another woman to the (un)furtunate sob that get's to wield the Divine dividing or boosted gear ( I bet their has been a Hakuryuukou with a harem)

Edit:@B214 You make some very good and valid points and ideas, i'd love to see you post more often. Very well thought out. And i think the word you were looking for is warped

B214

2017-02-02, 19:20

Um, I don't think it's like you think. Ravel was talking about future matches when saying that they can't fight everyone. Those other three matches were probably still fine for them to accept, the problem is somewhere else.

And notice that Ravel and the others also said that the critics' words were too harsh. That was why Ravel turned off the TV. What the critics were saying was certainly true, but other teams also made mistakes during matches but weren't talked about like that. Only Ise's team was picked on harshly for the mistakes they made during their matches.

I think Ravel said that because Ise's ideology in combat is getting distorted (forgot the term i wanted to use so ignore it if it's weird). Like Ravel said, the idea of of wanting to defeat everyone is impossible. She probably said that because Ise is trying to beat all his opponents. Ravel wouldn't voice that out if Ise isn't doing that. Ise probably isn't paying much attention to his team and their condition instead is too focus on defeating his enemies. I'm guessing the 666 incident is affecting Ise more than he expected.

Who knows this might be the plot for Volume 23, the girls' under Ise finally snap because Ise was too focus on defeating their enemies that he disregarded them and their feelings.

katokateki

2017-02-02, 23:24

Whoa, the last paragraph, things escalated quickly! I think that's exactly what's been avoided thanks to the critics (especially the mother and child).

Anyway, in any case, the girls other than Ravel would much rather spoil Ise than hurt his feelings. Only Ravel can show that supremacy of her's and oppose him strongly the next time. The girls would just probably be said and/or agree with Ravel. :heh:
Oh yeah, forgot about Rose, she will be with Ravel, being a teacher. :D

Hakai

2017-02-03, 00:23

Indeed, our [Queen]…a Devil named Bina Lessthan is a masked woman. For some reason, she appeared before me, and also for various other reasons, she eventually became our [Queen]. Of course, she isn’t one of my servants, at most she would be one of my team members for this tournament.
So Bina isn't his servant and isn't expected to stay after the tournament.

I guess we still have Ise's real Queen to look forward to.

katokateki

2017-02-03, 00:27

*for this tournament. I think the spoiler n0m@n mentioned earlier has yet to come. Ise hasn't talked about the various "reasons" yet. He might mention the conditions later on.

Plus, I guess I was taking reasons as discussions this whole time! :heh:

KnightShade

2017-02-03, 00:38

where are you guys reading life 5?

katokateki

2017-02-03, 00:40

Okay, you asked. That's why I'm going to give you the link. That too in spoiler. :heh:

this (http://www.zxzxzx.info/highschool-dxd/highschool-dxd-volume-22-life-5/)
Its just the draft. expect whole Life 5 around mid Feb.

KnightShade

2017-02-03, 00:42

Sparda4

2017-02-03, 01:04

@Kato Sorry i gave ya the scare of your life but someone had to warn ya,

Edit:so at the current stage Issei's kinda in a bad spotlight with the media i think Bina and Ravel are going to be the main reason for his rating's to go up. I noticed re reading n0m@n's first post that we might have a Fight between The Dragon King of the Black wicked and the Red Dragon Emperor of Blazing Truth looking forward to that

thefreakmike

2017-02-03, 01:05

Still need that Akeno confession though

katokateki

2017-02-03, 01:08

@Kids Pleasure's actually mine. :D

@Sparda Its okay, but yeah, my mistakes do get attention, indeed! At least it was your attention and not the admin's! :heh: Thanks for the warning, had actually forgotten about it.

EDIT: @thefreak Yeah, god knows what she will do to him after it won't be considered an affair anymore :D

Also, did you notice that just the tournament team members of Ise are in Hyoudou residence right now? I think the rest of the girls are in the Gremory castle.

DragonOsman

2017-02-03, 05:19

Yeah, the other girls should be in the Gremory castle (the rest of Ise's harem, at least).

And yeah, it's mentioned that Bina isn't his servant and will likely only stay in the team for the tournament at the most, but isn't it possible that she could become his real Queen if she can (like if she isn't someone who can't become his real Queen for any reason)? We already knew from before, through spoilers, that she isn't his servant yet, so that hasn't changed.

@thefreakmile: Does she need to confess? Ise already proposed to her and she even said yes. Plus there's the way this Volume started (Ise, Rias and Akeno on a bed with the two girls naked and asking him to touch them and to "do it" with them (too bad they got interrupted, though)).

That said, hopefully he'll propose to Asia and the others one by one, too. They're all in his harem already and he needs to acknowledge that.

katokateki

2017-02-03, 05:46

Wasn't it mentioned in the spoiler that she would join him permanently if he met her expectations?

DragonOsman

2017-02-03, 05:53

I know I read it somewhere, but it could just have been someone's assumption. We'll have to wait and see.

Sparda4

2017-02-03, 07:31

it was said that she will join if her expectations are met if i remember right, 3 guys can't be wrong about the same thing so think we remember right if we are then we messed up quite a bit
(Did you guy's read my previous post ? )

katokateki

2017-02-03, 07:40

Edit:

so at the current stage Issei's kinda in a bad spotlight with the media i think Bina and Ravel are going to be the main reason for his rating's to go up. I noticed re reading n0m@n's first post that we might have a Fight between The Dragon King of the Black wicked and the Red Dragon Emperor of Blazing Truth looking forward to that

You mean Saji vs Ise? Does that mean Ise vs Sona is coming up?

DragonOsman

2017-02-03, 08:28

Maybe it is. I'll be looking forward to it if so.

And if the part about Bina becoming his real Queen was an assumption, then we aren't messed up. It just means we remembered kind of incorrectly. But yeah, hopefully it wasn't just an assumption but an actual (confirmed) spoiler, meaning she'll really become his real Queen if he passes her test.

Sparda4

2017-02-03, 09:29

You mean Saji vs Ise? Does that mean Ise vs Sona is coming up?

Jup. Read the n0m@n's very first post you'll come across a line in a sense Saji saying to Issei "Don't hold back because i won't"

And we'll see soon enough who Bina is i'm not worried and you guy's shouldn't be either, But i am worried about Issei's Tournament line up, if he's going against Sona that means that the other high tier players are not far behind Example Sona > Sairaorg > Cao Cao > Vali
Tho this is just a theory but if he's going against Sona who's to say he won't fight against others who he beat before and the Listing is just an example of who he might fight. Again MIGHT

katokateki

2017-02-03, 09:42

Wasn't there a similar dialogue between them during the starting ceremony/Sona's last day at school(night)?

DragonOsman

2017-02-03, 09:59

@Sparda4: There's going to be a match between the Dulio and Sekiryuutei Teams, it seems. Volume 23 if I'm not mistaken. Noman and some others are talking about it on Skype, too.

Sparda4

2017-02-03, 14:30

I envy the ones that know japanese kinda wish i had the chance to learn but can't.
So The Joker of heaven vs the ( i'm going to butcher how it's said in japanese) Sekiryuutei no Issei. Niiice.

DragonOsman

2017-02-03, 16:15

Actually, you typed Ise's nickname correctly there. I'd capitalize "Issei" as well, though. "Sekiryuutei no Issei". I like how the "Issei" part here means "Blazing Truth". They gave Ise a badass nickname.

I'll go and confirm if I understood correctly when Ise's team will fight Dulio's.

katokateki

2017-02-03, 16:41

Idk why, Sekiryuutei no Issei translates to "Cranes trajectory" in Google translate!!

Sparda4

2017-02-03, 16:45

Still i like the one Riz gave issei a bit more both sound badass but translating Dragon Maou and getting Dragon Devil(Demon) King now that i like. This is just my prefrence tho. I'm looking forward to finally get the confirmation of that pesky s in the arc title in the afterword. That's where 90% of the stuff is explained and hope i'm right. Tho we need to get through life 5 first.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 03:42

Just a question, why did we consider Crom to be a good candidate for Mr Black? Isn't he an evil dragon? Why would Rias do that? Plus, his aura is easily recognisable.

If he is Mr. Black, then Rias must have had a very good reason to do so. I can't think of any. Winning the Cup isn't that important to her that she would do such rogue things.

I kinda think someone wants to unite all the dragons with the devils. Tannin, maybe. If that's true, then Tiamat is again a possibility. I'm sorry, but I think she would be the perfect queen(not just harem member) for Ise considering how she has watched most of the rating games till date and how she is as powerful (or more) as Ise's CCQ.

Just like Akeno is almost equal to Rias in terms of power.

An eye for an eye, a dragon for a dragon(or something similar to what Vali said before JD in Season 3 :heh:). It would be cool with the way Ise is getting closer to being a True Dragon. Tiamat may also help him transform between his dragon and human form.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 05:11

It's more a question of why Crom Cruach would choose to be in Rias' team. That's easier. Think about the things he's said to Ise that he wants to do. And plus, he also wants to fight Ise (and other strong opponents). And Crom Cruach is not completely evil anymore which Rias also knows. I think she'd make a compromise here.

@katokateki (about Ise's nickname): Google Translate isn't exactly known for its accuracy in Japanese, but you might be able to make out some stuff with a bit of difficulty. I've asked on Skype for the Japanese characters for it, so if Noman can find them, that's good.

What did you put in there, though? Japanese characters (hopefully)? Don't throw in romaji because that won't work.

Ishibumi did use slightly different for "Issei" to have it mean "Blazing Truth," though, since Issei's name is normally written as "一誠," where "一" is the kanji for 1 and "誠" means "truth" or "fidelity" (I got these and other words when I searched for it on a Kanji Dictionary).

By the way, since Rias has also been training a lot, what do you think are the chances of her passing the Ultimate-class exam after training for maybe a few more years?

katokateki

2017-02-04, 05:22

Yeah, if Raiser's brother can do that, she can too. Training will surely help her get it quicker. She has to, considering the fact that her aim is to be the number one in RG.

The top three(?) are ultimate class which means she will also be. She will reach ultimate power level using Ise's wyverns' armour even quicker but that don't count.

EDIT:
But why would Rias risk blowing Tannin's and other people's cover? Tannin gave Crom shelter hours after he attacked heaven. The whole Hyoudou residence would be investigated now that Azazel isn't present anymore to take the blame.

Sparda4

2017-02-04, 06:07

It can be worked around, maybe saying to the media the truth ? Example - "I came to the Gremory princess if she intends to join this tournament i will aid her in exchange i get to fight the strong ones in this tournament."
Don't you think this i what happened ? i would think so and the example i just wrote is the only one that could justify him being on the team ofcourse if Mr black is infact crom cruach.

B214

2017-02-04, 06:18

Crom probably just wanted a position where he can fight strong foe. He doesn't care if he's a King or a Pawn.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 06:19

It's not that simple. Nobody would risk the lives of the audience just on an evil dragon's word. Remember, the evil dragons are even more hated after the 666 incident.

EDIT:

You guys were perfectly right wrt Crom's viewpoint. But Rias, why would she take him in? Ise vs Crom could very well turn into a battle of death. That's what evil dragons are famous for.

Also, why won't she take Ophis instead?
She might also be able to use 8 evil pieces on her considering Crom is more powerful than heavenly dragon level (right?) and Ophis is double that power.

Sorry, remembered Ophis wants peace. The above was just an argument. Never mind.

But yeah, Rias ain't gonna help Ise's rival to fight him just to get his power. She also has her pride and cares for Ise.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 06:26

Crom helped Ise fight against them. He defeated Nidhoggr. All we need is for the people of the Underworld to be aware of that fact.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 06:27

Then in that way, the identity of Ophis could also be revealed. Why won't they do that? Since volume 12?

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 06:34

That's a little different. It's not just because she was the leader of terrorists.

Ophis can't be reincarnated, remember? [ask yourself why that could be.]

katokateki

2017-02-04, 06:39

What else?
Everybody knows she saved Ise, who saved the world(by fighting Apophis). She was the one who gave him her power. She even saved his life for the second time. Oh yeah, she also helped Vali awaken his Lucifer self.

Crom fought one evil dragon. Guess what? That's what evil dragons do! The only other notable thing he did was saving Ophis, who is considered a terrorist.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 06:46

Ophis' case is complicated. But one thing: she's a Dragon God, so she can't be reincarnated (because she's a god). Pay more attention to the story. If Ise becomes one, that'd be a loophole because he's already a Reincarnated Devil.

But how many people know she saved Ise and gave him her power? They won't know unless they see him using DxD G after it's completed.

The worst Evil Dragons were Azi Dahaka and Apophis. With Nidhoggr being right behind them. Crom Cruach isn't like them. But yeah, most of the Underworld's people don't know that.

B214

2017-02-04, 06:46

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 06:48

^Yeah, that too. Asia does have 4 Evil Dragons with her.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 07:19

Yeah, I guess. But there's a difference. They are no where as threatening as Crom.

You can't compare Crom to 4 evil dragons who can be destroyed by pretty much any strong attack!

Some people would agree, some would not. Crom hasn't ever said that he is co-operating with anybody.(Has he?)

Also, why not convince the officials before registering him with a fake identity? That only makes it even more suspicious. She can't take such reckless decisions, her being the next heir of Gremory.

@B214

It's not that simple. Nobody would risk the lives of the audience just on an evil dragon's word. Remember, the evil dragons are even more hated after the 666 incident.

EDIT:

You guys were perfectly right wrt Crom's viewpoint. But Rias, why would she take him in? Ise vs Crom could very well turn into a battle of death. That's what evil dragons are famous for.

Also, why won't she take Ophis instead?
She might also be able to use 8 evil pieces on her considering Crom is more powerful than heavenly dragon level (right?) and Ophis is double that power.

Sorry, remembered Ophis wants peace. The above was just an argument. Never mind.

But yeah, Rias ain't gonna help Ise's rival to fight him just to get his power. She also has her pride and cares for Ise.

And why would Rias pick Ophis who isn't interested in fighting?

Already apologized for that! :heh:

Also, it being similar to a Rating game doesn't mean someone can't be killed. Raiser once said that those who die in an RG are considered victims of an accident. A one hit kill move is banned for sure, but an Evil Dragon can't be trusted.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 07:24

Azi Dahaka, Apophis and Crom Cruach all trained to Heavenly Dragon-level, so they're equal in power. And Azazel said that out of all of the Evil Dragons, they were the most threatening. Crom Cruach is better now, though, and he's got other things to do aside from threatening the world. He's changed.

But yeah, Rias still has to find a good way to hide his identity if Mr. Black is really him. Masking his aura would be one way.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 07:35

I am perfectly confident on Crom being as evil as Ophis. I'm just saying, does the world think so?

Also, why would Rias do such a thing as to hide Crom from officials illegally if it wasn't an order by someone like Azazel or some emergency?

Crom has no regard of his surroundings. He challenged Ophis to fight him in the Hyoudou residence without any warning. What makes you think he won't challenge others, say Vali, when he sees him in the tournament? He could even challenge Indra for all we know.

Rias doesn't take such decisions herself, she is always convinced by the circumstances or someone she trusts.

Right now, Crom is officially, an evil dragon who attacked heaven, fought an evil dragon in the middle of an ongoing rescue operation and there's been no statement from his side to defend him.

B214

2017-02-04, 08:05

And who would complain to Crom? He helped the world fend off 666 too and in a state where the world's forces is depleted, having one less powerful enemy to fight is always better than trying to pin a sin on Crom like idiots without brains. Also Crom doesn't blindly challenges people. He already stated his purpose clearly, he wants to see the future of the Dragons and believes that Ise and Vali holds that key. Him joining the Azazel Cup under Rias could be simply to fulfill that purpose.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 08:23

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 08:25

Rias probably does have some sensible reason for it. We don't know yet.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 08:31

Yeah, but that's again, a speculation. Just like Tiamat could have a reason to join Ise. We woud have to wait. I just want to say, we shouldn't take Mr. Black as Crom for granted.

I haven't read any previous speculations you guys did for previous volumes but what happens if someone's speculations are slapped in the ass? Are they quoted and put in the hall of shame? :D Just kidding, but yeah, what has been the accuracy of previous speculations? Has anyone ever predicted something exactly? Do they get some promotion?

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 08:43

Yeah, it's just speculation and we should wait and see. But all things considered, out of all the options, Mr. Black being Crom Cruach seemed to be the likeliest possibility. At least from what everyone was saying at the time.

As for a promotion. There can't be one. Only actual promotion on a forum is the one from post count.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 08:58

Yeah, hope the author has some good back-story to tell in case it is Crom.

Royalknightftw

2017-02-04, 10:47

You are probably right about the powerless thing. There is Tiamat for such cases though.

But my point is, why hide him? Rias is like Grayfia in that respect - she won't do such reckless thing out of emotions unless necessary. If the vampires are gonna fight, even they would oppose him playing.

Why don't you guys think that way? Crom is a rogue officially. Even Vali and his team had to had an agreement(DxD) to be pardoned. Le Fay didn't do anything particularly wrong, still she was exiled until the agreement. What does that say to you?

Rias doesn't have the guts to do such things. Ise does. He could convince her for that but he isn't with her right now. Giving him a fake identity and having ties with him is gonna put Rias in a situation similar to Le Fay.

Remember, Crom once worked for Rizevim. He was fighting with those evil dragons. That's not a small crime.

If Rias declared that Crom is fighting for her, who in the right mind would challenge her team to duel?? I believe the reason why Rias keeps mr black's identity a secret is not to frighten other groups.

When Vali and co became a terrorist, most of the factions still had their forces but now they didn't. Instead of wasting their resources for antagonizing someone with Heavenly Dragon level who helped fend of 666 attack they should just let him do what Crom wants as long as he doesn't do anything harmful. Then again, it's not like Crom killed a lot of people or did something terrible when he was a terrorist, so most factions might have a better view about him than the rest of Evil Dragons.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 11:57

If Rias declared that Crom is fighting for her, who in the right mind would challenge her team to duel?? I believe the reason why Rias keeps mr black's identity a secret is not to frighten other groups.

Its about fighting a stronger group and stronger people won't be frightened by Crom if they have the guts to fight against Ise and Vali. There are a lot of brave warriors and fighting weak groups isn't gonna give her much points if at all.

Instead of wasting their resources for antagonizing someone with Heavenly Dragon level who helped fend of 666 attack they should just let him do what Crom wants as long as he doesn't do anything harmful.

Not many people would be willing to watch Rias' matches in that case. I think there's a backstory about Crom uniting with team DxD in order to stay close to Ophis and Ise. Rias isn't someone who will do something unethical like taking in a powerful man who people are scared of!

Also, during registrations, won't the officials check the identity of every player?

Let's say, Crom is no more in bad terms with all the factions anymore. People being scared to oppose him sounds unethical.

Tbolt

2017-02-04, 12:10

Everyone is forgetting the "Power of the Banana"!

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 12:11

By the way, you know guys remember our talk from before about using swordsmanship? Look at this from Volume 9 (the trip to Kyoto on the bus):

"It's fine. Though I also need it sometimes, but considering the current situation, it's much more efficient to lend it to you."
"But then, Ise really should train in sword fighting. Don't waste your gifts."
"I have. When Kiba is your training partner, your sword skills definitely improve."
"Yes."

He was talking to Xenovia here.

So anyway, yeah, his sword skills actually are improving from his duels with Kiba. Seriously, I want to see him using Ascalon as an actual sword at least once after reading this again.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 12:16

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 12:20

There should also be other chances to use it if not in the Cup. Either way, I hope Ise will also use it as a sword sometimes, at least, once his skill with the sword has gotten good enough.

I'm not sure if Ascalon would be useful against Crom Cruach, though? I mean, look at how strong he is. And Ascalon isn't exactly the strongest of the Dragonslayer swords.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 12:27

Outside the RG type battles, I don't see it having much use, as others had pointed out back then. Its not that strong to replace Ise's punch and even Ise's punch could use Ascalon's powers.

His enemies can take Durandal's (again typed Durandel the first time :heh:)base attack head-on (Sairaorg). What difference could Ascalon make? Except in situations where Ise is beaten to pulp and the enemy has his/her guard down. Though, Xenovia should have improved by now, but anyway, that Durandal was no joke either.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 12:33

Like I said back then, Ascalon can be powered up with the Boosted Gear. That's what Ise does with it even now when he uses its aura. He powers his punches up with Ascalon's aura and Boost. Using Ascalon as an actual sword is, as Xenovia said, just so that he wouldn't be wasting his gifts. And it just feels better to use a sword as a sword if you can.

thefreakmike

2017-02-04, 12:34

Hey guys, info about Vol 23 just popped up, shouldnt we ask for a new thread to be made for the volume?

B214

2017-02-04, 12:34

@Tbolt The banana ain't gonna affect people who are scared of Crom. Crom is fine with the one Asia gave him for now...

@Osman Yeah, would be especially helpful in his fights against Crom(speculated to be in the Azazel cup itself) and Vali. Also, he could use it in case the rules only allow him to use the BG. I guess, he could also use it against Saji's lines and stuff.

You're simply jumping to conclusion right now and saying that people are afraid of Crom without any prove. Even if they are people afraid of Crom, is Crom randomly killing people? Is Crom running amok needlessly? No he's not. If Crom is just following the rules handed, why should he be discriminated against? Besides, he helped the world fend off 666. It means Crom isn't going to act like the other Evil Dragons who just go on a rampage.

Hell Vali and Cao Cao are well known terrorist too at one point and here they are joining the Azazel Cup. So why isn't Crom allowed to join when others who had criminal record can?

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 12:37

Hey guys, info about Vol 23 just popped up, shouldnt we ask for a new thread to be made for the volume?

Wait for Volume 22 to be fully translated first. I think that'd be better.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 12:43

@Osman That boosted thing actually popped into my mind before I wrote the answer but then disappeared in the middle of the answer. I agree. As long as boosting increases its sharpness too, i.e..

@B214 I was actually saying that people accepting Crom just because they can't fight him ain't gonna work. Crom has probably had made a deal with the factions we don't know about yet. That way, audience can enjoy the match without Crom being restricted to use his full powers.

@thefreak and @Osman Just making a thread isn't gonna hurt anybody! The information is probably related to Bina or Mr. Black! How about make a spoiler post with information written on each spoiler that what its gonna tell us about, no discussion, just the spoilers. The thread could be dead until March!!

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 12:53

About Volume 23, we already have some info since way before. We know that the Ise vs Dulio and Cao Cao vs. Sairaorg fights of the Azazel Cup are going to be featured in it.

As for boosting Ascalon, yeah, I actually do think its sharpness should be enhanced. As well as its Holy and Dragonslayer attributes. Depends on what Ise tries to enhance. Enhancing the aura will make the Holy and Dragonslayer attributes stronger and more effective since those are part of its aura as well as being included in cuts from it.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 12:59

Okay, agree.

But anyway, Thefreak, if you get spoiler related to Bina, PM me :D

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 13:00

And post it here, too, please.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 13:02

Can we post Vol 23's spoilers here? I think we have been discussing most of them here anyway!

thefreakmike

2017-02-04, 14:13

Hahaa sorry no spoiler for Bina yet, just the name of the volume and some summaries

katokateki

2017-02-04, 14:14

PM ME!! :D :D And if its okay, post in a spoiler here too!

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 14:31

No, well, if summaries are out (an they're confirmed to be true, to boot) I think it'd be good to make a separate thread for Volume 23 and post the stuff there. No need to post it here.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 14:38

Yeah, that sounds more sensible.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 14:50

By the way, you remember that time I mentioned the strongest of the past Sekiryuutei? I just found the place it was mentioned. The woman (who is described as a beautiful young woman) is named Elsha and she's the strongest female Sekiryuutei. The man I mentioned before, Belzard, is mentioned by name in that chapter (Volume 9 Life.2) and it's said that he was the strongest male Sekiryuutei. So those two are the two strongest of the past Hosts.

For Elsha:
--! A third voice!? I turned my face to find a young woman standing with long wavy blonde hair and a slim and trim body. A beautiful lady wearing a full body dress with a high slit!
...Facial expressions! She is different from all these past Sekiryuutei! Full of smiles, she looked at me.
[ Elsha? ]
[ Yes~, Ddraig. It's been a while. ]
The lady casually greeted.
[ Partner, this is Elsha, foremost amongst the past Sekiryuutei. Of all the female wielders, she is definitely the strongest. ]
The strongest female Sekiryuutei! Come to think of it, I have never seen her before! Where did she come from?

For Belzard:
[ Belzard seems to have taken an interest in the current Sekiryuutei, so I came. ]
"By the way, who is Belzard?"
Ddraig answered my question.
[ He ranks up there with Elsha. Belzard is the strongest male Sekiryuutei. Truly a strong one, he even defeated the Hakuryuukou twice. ]
"Twice! That's super amazing!"
Something like that can happen. To occur twice in one life.

Elsha gives Ise the "key" to the possibilities that were released by Ajuka when he altered Ise's Evil Pieces after that ritual ceremony at the Gremory Ruins. That happens right after the above quote.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 14:59

Yeah, now I remember. Although it wasn't mentioned who was the stronger one between the two of them IIRC.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 16:10

Yeah, it wasn't mentioned who the stronger one between them is. I think Ise will end up as the strongest male Sekiryuutei by the end of the series, though.

I hate how the past Hosts' lingering memories inside the Boosted Gear had to sacrifice themselves to protect Ise's soul from the damage from Samael's curse. And their last message to Ise just had to be "Zoom Zoom Iyaan!". Man. I'm sorry, Ddraig!

katokateki

2017-02-04, 16:12

It would have been even sadder if they had said something sensible though...

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 16:20

But they should've at least given him some advice as his senpais. I agree with Ise on that. If along with that they'd also said, "Zoom Zoom Iyaan" or something else from that song, it'd have been better.

katokateki

2017-02-04, 16:53

How could they give him advice when he had already diverted his way of development from their's? They could only give him advice till the JD.

DragonOsman

2017-02-04, 17:26

How about moral or mental support, then? Anything other than a message that consisted only of a part of the Oppai Dragon song. At least worry more for Ddraig's and Albion's respective condition. Sheesh.

B214

2017-02-04, 20:56

They did give Ise advice. Embrace the breasts embrace the power. :heh:

katokateki

2017-02-04, 23:58

Albion's condition? IIRC the previous DD possessors are still with him, right?

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 01:11

In DD the past users are sealed by Vali, in the bg all of the past users died in vol 12 to save Issei from the dragon slaying effect of Samael's curse.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 01:14

Yeah, that's what I remembered too.

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 01:21

I wonder if Issei will be sealed into the bg when he die, probably by that time his going to be a mature badass, I don't mind him being the oppai dragon that's just who he is right now but i do hope by the time he dies he's going to be simmilar to Sirzechs knows when to be a perv but has power when shit hit's the fan.

Edit: When shit hit's the fan meaning for example trihexa breaks out of the barrier if it's not destroyed by the time he's 10,000 years old. That's what i mean.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 01:26

Well that's not happening for another 10,000 years. I wonder whether Ise would become another Elsha. Now that the past one's are gone, he would be pretty much alone. Also, wonder if he would start the JD chant and whether he will reinstate the curse of the past possessors.

I'm gonna ignore the description of shit hitting a fan(??) situation as I don't quite get it. :D

EDIT:
Ok, sounds weird though if we take it literally. :heh:

But tri-hexa dies within the first 100 years for sure.

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 02:51

Doubt it, it's the apocalypse beast for a reason even with blazing inferno constantly damaging the core it's still going to take more then 100 years for that monsters regen to even start slowing down so it is possible we will see trihexa again in a sequel if their will be one. I just don't see how that thing can be destroyed even by multiple gods in 100 years if you need GR and Full power Ophis to get rid of it for good

katokateki

2017-02-05, 03:23

Azazel apparently tells Ise to contact a person who knows how to defeat 666 IIRC. It was mentioned here a while back.

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 03:49

You honestly think that ANYONE aside from Issei and Vali is willing to fight trihexa to protect anyone aside from their own ass ? The only possible way i can imagine let's say Shiva or Indra or any other top 10 of the world is if Issei wins the cup and asks just for that in a sense forcing them to destory Trihexa outside trying to save their own ass if it breaks out in the worst case. Now put up a counter to what i just said, no God in their RIGHT FUCKING MIND would leave their religion undefended to fight a monster that is ocupied by other gods and is sealed in a barrier. ( Don't take the capitals the wrong way.)

Ps: i was but the tone that your telling it can't be conveyed through text so i put it there for that reason.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 03:55

That man knows what Ise and maybe others have to do in order to defeat 666 quickly.

Nobody would want Shiva to go anywhere as they aren't sure when the other world army is gonna attack. Its estimated to be 30 years but no one knows for sure.

Ps, wrong way as in? You weren't shouting those words out?

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 07:12

@Katokateki: "Shit hitting the fan" isn't meant to be taken literally, as it's just an expression. Basically it's saying, "When things have gotten too far out of hand".

Sometime in the future, Ise will apparently lead a team into the dimension where Trihexa is and help the people who are already fighting it beat it. I read something about that on this forum. Ajuka advises Ise to do it. I don't remember the details.

Either way, you can expect Ise to have mastered all of his powers completely by then. He'll be a powerful, badass Dragon God and True Dragon who also possesses the power of a Heavenly Dragon. If my prediction is correct.

As for Ise doing the Juggernaut Drive chant again - I doubt it. It's gone for good because the curse of the Sekiryuutei was released. No more curse = no more Juggernaut Drive.

I saw the description for the Triaina in Volume 9 when it was first awakened. Ddraig felt very nostalgic, and Ise also felt the nostalgia even though he shouldn't know how Ddraig's original power felt. It's said that the Triaina and True Queen are Ddraig's original power manifested using the characteristics and traits of the Evil Pieces (but that full description isn't in Volume 9; I'm just saying what I remember from Volume 10 or so). If I understand it right, all four forms possess equal power each and each of them individually will be Heavenly Dragon-level when completed and mastered (most of you guys may have understood already that it's probably like this; I'm just saying it now because I just realized it). They each have equal power, they just apply the power differently depending on which Piece it is. The True Queen is the Queen, so it's meant to be the balanced all-rounder type. Ajuka told Ise towards the end of the side-story that the ritual ceremony at the ruins was held in that he should focus on mastering the other Pieces first rather than just using the Queen when using the Pawn's Promotion (Ise said it to Kiba on the train before they went to Kyoto, so it's not in the side-story itself). The reason was that the other Pieces will be easier to control for now since the power is easier to visualize, as it only enhances one specific aspect: Knight enhances speed, Rook enhances physical power (offense and defense) and Bishop enhances magical power. With the Queen which enhances all of them, the flow of power would be too hard to visualize and thus harder to control for Ise at the current stage. So he should get used to and master the other Pieces first and then master the Queen. As he's the Sekiryuutei, that will also make it easier for him to use the power of the Sekiryuutei more efficiently with each of the Pieces. The Triaina and True Queen are the same way. He has to master the other Pieces' powers first and then master the True Queen. It'll also help stabilize and tune the True Queen.

Juggernaut Drive's power was Ddraig's original power tainted by the negative emotions and curse of the past possessors, which turned into a sort of alien, dangerous power that ate away at the possessors life-span and eventually killed him/her. The Triaina and True Queen are the release of Ddraig's original power without the curse. So it's safer.

I wonder how future possessors of the Boosted Gear that come after Ise will manifest the original power of the Sekiryuutei. Ise did it the way he did because he has 8 Pawn Pieces inside him, with the first 4 that mutated representing the Triaina and True Queen forms, because he's a Pawn with mutated pieces that were adjusted in such a way that allowed for it. The future possessors that come after him may not have it like that, so they'll probably manifest Ddraig's original power in a different way than him.

I wonder if Issei will be sealed into the bg when he die, probably by that time his going to be a mature badass, I don't mind him being the oppai dragon that's just who he is right now but i do hope by the time he dies he's going to be simmilar to Sirzechs knows when to be a perv but has power when shit hit's the fan.

Edit: When shit hit's the fan meaning for example trihexa breaks out of the barrier if it's not destroyed by the time he's 10,000 years old. That's what i mean.

What was in the Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing were the lingering memories of the past possessors, not their souls. Elsha also said that to Ise. She herself has already passed on, and what was inside the Boosted Gear was just a memory. Vali kept the ones that were in the Divine Dividing, but the Boosted Gear's ones sacrificed themselves to save his soul from Samael's curse.

So when Ise dies, his soul won't be sealed inside the Boosted Gear. It'd just be his lingering memory.

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 07:20

B214

2017-02-05, 07:26

The next Sekiryuutei, Ise's great great great great grandson.
The next Hakuryuukoe, Vali's great great great great granddaughter.

And hence the bloodline becomes one. :heh:

bluestahli1

2017-02-05, 07:30

Would Vali even fuck a woman?

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 07:32

Still i hope that memory is more mature and less pervy when the next host of bg meets Issei. Even if it's only a fragment of Issei i want that fragment to guide the next Sekiryuutei to greatness no matter his/her heritage.

I get it and I agree. I just got triggered by you saying that Ise would be sealed inside the Boosted Gear after he dies, since that's not what actually happens to a Heavenly Dragon Sacred Gear possessors who dies.

@B214: :heh: That would be great.

Edit: One post late.
@bluestahli: One would hope so. We have Lavinia, so hopefully he'll get into a relationship with her.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 08:04

@Dragon I was talking about Ise's memory inside the BG of the future possessor starting the JD chant for reasons like someone's oppai getting halved or something. I guess not, if Ise doesn't die with any negative emotions.

Similar to your thought about in which form the future possessor would get Sekiryuutei's original power.

But these things are still 10,000 years away. We don't even know whether the concept of SG will remain or get altered or altogether discarded to welcome something else.

@bluestahli *feels for Vali flowing out*

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 08:12

The Sacred Gears will still be there, it's just that the Grigori in the future seem to have discovered a way to let supernatural beings get them as well so that it's not just limited to humans anymore (Vali has one because he's half-human).

katokateki

2017-02-05, 08:18

Again, 10,000 years later, we can't even be sure that Grigori exists. Maybe people leave Earth and settle on Mars :D

Maybe original Heavenly Dragons get somehow resurrected thanks to their good conduct for 10,000 years. Who knows...

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 08:23

Um, I really don't think the Heavenly Dragons can be resurrected.

And the more things change, the more they stay the same. You're just jumping to conclusions because it's 10,000 years later and a lot can change in that time.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 08:26

Let's not talk about what happens 10,000 years from now. Let Stephen Hawking do that. :heh:

Sekiryuu12

2017-02-05, 08:30

Nah, for me the last sekiryuutei will be Issei. because even if he is going to die do you really think he will let his partner (Ddraig) continue to be a slave of the Sacred Gear System forever? sincerely i don't think so. and i'm sure Ddraig will say that he is already tired and die someway or another xD.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 08:31

Probably become Ise's SG in heaven :p Just kidding, don't get triggered, guys.

Sekiryuu12

2017-02-05, 08:38

Lol, i'm not triggered U_U

EDIT: but is not like i don't understant you... nowadays we can't say anything even in the net...

katokateki

2017-02-05, 08:56

Yeah, but I think we are expected to talk seriously in forums. So, its nobody's fault! Maybe a bit our's, but yeah :D

I mean someone could actually speculate such stuff. Who knows.

EDIT: Imagine laughing at someone's serious speculation that you thought was a joke. :D You never know!

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 09:16

Ddraig is already dead, guys. He's just a soul sealed in a Sacred Gear now, as is Albion. And yeah, it'd be great if there were a way to free Ddraig and Albion from the Sacred Gear System, but either way it just seems to be good to be true. And Ddraig isn't a slave of the system.

katokateki

2017-02-05, 09:24

But couldn't he be resurrected like other dragons were? I think I read somewhere that Fafnir got resurrected by the Norse Gods or something. Maybe it was Vritra. But it has happened. Holy Grail + Soul = Too good to be true becomes reality.

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 09:29

Well technicly he is he's forced to be inside a host by the sg system but that's a whole other can of worms. And the bit with the soul thing well then who says their isn't a way to reverse the sg containment if issei's soul could be put into another body why can't Ddraig get one for himself through some other meams i mean Issei's going to be alive for 10,000 years so a lot can happen in that amount of time.

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 10:08

Yeah, I guess so. But since Ddraig's inside a Sacred Gear, the same method that was used to revive the other Dragons won't work on him.

Darksider555

2017-02-05, 13:43

Hey guys do you think that Raynare knew that Vali was Azazel student/top enforcer? Maybe one of the reasons she wanted to get more approval from Azazel? After all Vali is handsome and many female Fallen Angels would be attracted to him due to his good looks, power and close ties to the boss of the Fallen Angels?

katokateki

2017-02-05, 13:57

He's handsome for sure, but he's kind of a dick in that sense tbh. However, she did seem uninterested in things normal girls would like that Ise did to her. So, maybe, yeah. Both didn't care much about others' feelings back then. One is dead and the other may have changed...

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 16:03

If Vali EVER gets a woman just one not a harem just ONE woman for himself by the final battle with Issei i'm gonna eat my tie i swear. That guy never showed intrest in women other then the small part of admitting that he likes a girl's butt. That's it. He may want to protect those he cares about but to get a girfriend well you would need to get rid of anyone and everyone he want's to fight. Good luck with that.

Now i'd love too see a counter or something simmilar I'm kinda interested in a counter to what i just wrote

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 16:11

I have no counter to that, my friend. :heh: But yeah, I think we can at least ship him with Lavinia. I'm hopeful for that one.

Darksider555

2017-02-05, 16:44

I have no counter to that, my friend. :heh: But yeah, I think we can at least ship him with Lavinia. I'm hopeful for that one.

I think that EVERONE ships him with Lavinia because she is the only woman to ever get a reaction out of him. He usually has his cool aura and atmosphere when he is aroud women even women as hot as Kuroka, but turns into a bubbly mess by Lavinia's mere presence. :)

Sparda4

2017-02-05, 16:55

You know guys what we need more of in the series ? Illustrations of characters. Their isn't a lot of artwork i really just want a separate book just with pictures of characters from the Zekram bael to Lavinia even Bedeze i want to see how they look i don't just want to go off a description.

DragonOsman

2017-02-05, 17:28

I agree. I also want to know how they look. But I guess we'll have to with a description. I'm used to it, though, since I like reading novels anyway. I'm a bookworm.

The good news is that there's an illustration of DxD G mode Ise in Volume 22 (if I understood the Volume number right). It's in the Cup. He uses DxD G mode against Barakiel. And he looks great in that illustration.

thefreakmike

2017-02-05, 18:04

Krudelu

2017-02-05, 22:51

So what are your hope for illustrations in vol 23? B&W and color

I ll go first:

Full Sekiryutei team with their uniforms
Dulio team members (not all of them, just a few are enough)
Elmenhilde being more dere dere
Akeno moment (a kiss would sufice XD, after the confession there needs to be some momentum to it :))
Another DxD g
^I was hoping for these as well plus at least one battle picture (if there would be any battles). Not a prep picture but probably an illustration of a scene. I know that LN is suppose to make us imagine events but it won't hurt to put at least one for a scene. I just wish that we get more illustrations just like most LNs (about 7 B&W illustrations).

katokateki

2017-02-06, 02:39

A CCQ is long overdue. Plus, Gabriel :D
And, Ise's dragonified form. The one he transforms into when he drinks dragon's blood and dragon aura becomes uncontrollable.

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 03:10

CCQ is 100% the same as scale mail just crimson in color but i do agree it's WAAAYYY overdue but to be fair i'm happy atleast we got DxD G illustrated

@Krudeu like this moment ?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/highschooldxd/images/d/d4/Clash_of_Red_and_White.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/327?cb=20130415011454

katokateki

2017-02-06, 03:12

Ise did say that it was organic like JD and a little bit change in form was there IIRC.
Give us Gabriel though.

"Ise……. That appearance……"
Buchou is opening her eyes wide. Hmn? I also looked at my whole body
after being concerned.
…….Is the colour of my armour darker? The shape is a bit different from
the usual one. It's like a brilliant crimson colour rather than red……. It is
the same colour as Buchou's hair.

This is what I'm talking about. The organic thing I guess was for the DxD thing :D Sorry for that...

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 04:17

Yup, the armor being organic is only in DxD G and DxD L respectively, then in that case reduce should hurt DxD G reason being [My poison is able to reduce all existences aside from inorganic objects. As long as it’s a living being, its blood, bones, organs, and soul can be cut down bit by bit, so even for extraordinary beings, everything in their bodies can be ‘reduced’.] And by that thinking if the Armor that a person has on and it's inorganic then reduce should have no effect for example Reglus nemea rey leather rex shouldn't be hurt by reduce because according to my knowledge it and some other armors are not organic.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 04:33

1. It worked on every organic body aside from the Sekiryuutei. Sekiryuutei wasn't an inorganic exception!

2.The inorganic armor can be punched through/broken and the gwiber can be unleashed.

The question is, how many armored enemies does Vali even have that need to die and won't die unless gwiber is used?

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 04:49

True but the reason i brought it up is The underword lifeformes from the future are mechanical so inorganic so reduce won't work But your right about that and the other resason is if for some reason Vali needs to use Reduce in Issei's presence then if he is in DxD G that that spells trouble for Issei. Blazing inferno on the other hand is even worse that damages everything.

Edit:Just a possibility that Vali may need to use Reduce NEAR Issei not ON him in the future so it may effect him if he get's too close. That's what i mean And DXD G is and organic armor not inorganic like scale mail Triaina or CCQ

katokateki

2017-02-06, 04:53

They do figure out the way to kill them in the future and Vali has other bosses to worry about.

Why would Vali using reduce spell trouble for Ise in DxD G mode? I don't get it! :heh:

Blazing inferno just damages what it is intended/produced to damage.

EDIT: Gabriel's illustrations though.
Ps, DX 3 thread created!!

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 06:03

Sparda4, you have a misunderstanding about DxD mode (both G and L) and Juggernaut Drive. The armor in those forms is still Scale Mail, it just has an organic feel to it. So Reduce won't work because it's still Scale Mail and Scale Mail isn't organic (but maybe it'll work because Ise isn't Ddraig, complete Ophis or Great Red). Reread their descriptions.

And the Cardinal Crimson Queen form's armor has a slightly different shape than the regular Boosted Gear Scale Mail on top of being crimson instead of red. So we actually aren't sure what it looks like exactly. And DxD G mode is based off of Cardinal Crimson Queen, with Ise also having to be in Cardinal Crimson Queen first, plus Ddraig dubbed it "Cardinal Crimson Promotion - Diabolos Dragon (DxD)". The author added a G for "God" at the end, so now it's "Cardinal Crimson Promotion - Diabolos Dragon God (DxD G)". But the armor in DxD G is also different from the one in Cardinal Crimson Queen and it has a total of four cannons (two above the shoulders and two below the arms), plus it's crimson and jet-black instead of just crimson. There's jet-black in it because of Ophis' influence, of course. Ise also noted in Volume 20 that that form is like an embodiment of Great Red and Ophis.

Hakai

2017-02-06, 06:16

If we are talking about things that needs illustration for me it's EJO or DxD L before anything else.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 06:16

@Sparda's edit -
If there's only one person on whom gwiber won't work, it has to be Ise. He is made up of all the things that gwiber can't work on. Even if one of them isn't sufficient to protect him, there's three of them.

Even base Ise will be protected by GR's flesh, other forms bring in Ddraig and Ophis. Not to forget he had Ddraig's blood and aura previously too.

Ps, when Albion said it didn't work on Sekiryuutei, do you think he meant a scale mail armored Sekiryuutei?

Add to that Osman's argument.

@Hakaishin Not before Gabriel's i.e. :D

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 06:23

Albion specifically mentioned Ddraig's name, not "Sekiryuutei". And Ise is not Ddraig, even if he has some of his blood and aura. I'm not sure if Ise counts as Ddraig. And yeah, he has Great Red's flesh and Ophis' power, but is that enough?

katokateki

2017-02-06, 06:27

Okay, what's the difference between Sekiryuutei and Ddraig? :heh: I've been using the two names interchangeably for a while now! :heh: :heh:

Yeah, it should be enough, I would say. WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?

Hakai

2017-02-06, 06:30

Scale mail and modes above are the manifestation of Ddraig's power, high chance it'll be able to resist Albion's poison, same way Vali might be able to survive Ddraig's special flames, though we wouldn't know for sure until they use them on each other. Maybe the next time they fight.

Also no Ise's current body won't save him from that poison, Ddraig said it wouldn't work on Great Red and the former infinite Ophis meaning you need to be on that level. Ise's not even High-class devil level now in his base.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 06:34

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 06:41

@Hakaishin: Will he able to resist the poison after the power in his flesh awakens? Or does he need to be in his True Dragon form for that? [I'm just asking you what you think.] The armored forms should be able to resist Reduce, but what about him getting hit with it outside of those armored forms? I'm thinking he can't resist it outside of his armored forms, but what do you think?

But yeah, I'm with Katokateki. Why would they use those attacks on each other? They aren't trying to kill each other anymore.

Hakai

2017-02-06, 06:41

Okay, that argument could make sense. I was thinking more in the lines of G.R. having a kind of antibody for gwiber in his genes, flesh, blood or something.

However, why would they try to kill each other in their next fight?
If they decide to go all out with no holding back, the rivalry is pretty intense. They might do that out of respect for each other believing the other one can survive their full power.

Ps, Gabriel first.

Eh, I'd rather have Tiamat's human form first

@Hakaishin: Will he able to resist the poison after the power in his flesh awakens? Or does he need to be in his True Dragon form for that? [I'm just asking you what you think.] The armored forms should be able to resist Reduce, but what about him getting hit with it outside of those armored forms? I'm thinking he can't resist it outside of his armored forms, but what do you think?
I don't think he can survive that without armor either, current Ophis is still OP(two times stronger than Ddraig) and Ddraig still felt like specifying prime Ophis so I don't see Ise surviving those flames even after awakening his body powers.

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 06:43

Both (on those illustrations), please. And I also want to see a description and illustration of Tiamat's true form, too (i.e. her dragon form).

katokateki

2017-02-06, 06:45

Nah, officials(speculations about them fighting in the Cup.) won't allow it.

Also, they would rather tell each other to get even stronger if no one wins.

Ps, if they are fighting equally, Ise will lose out due to lack of stamina anyway.

And I think it would be okay to have Tiamat first...

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 06:49

I'll agree on the aspect that they wouldn't use it on each other i meant that if for some reason Reduce and Blazing inferno were on the battlefield and an enemy if it SOMEHOW survives both attacks and knocks ether Issei or Vali into Reduce or inferno it could hurt them.

Hakai

2017-02-06, 06:56

Nah, officials(speculations about them fighting in the Cup.) won't allow it.

We've seen unrestricted RG before, knowing Shiva he might allow it

Ps, if they are fighting equally, Ise will lose out due to lack of stamina anyway.

They both have shitty stamina, Vali's EJO is especially bad and DxD L shaves his lifespan.
While Ise's far behind in power. They both have work to do before the fight.

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 06:57

@Sparda: If they're in their armored forms, it won't. Outside armored forms, yes it will.

@Katokateki: It depends on how much Ise's stamina consumption has improved by the time they fight. Ise's still training and growing (he might get the chance to train in between days that the matches are held on, for example), and plus, I think there's a chance that Ise and Vali will grow during their fight in the Cup depending on how good the fight is.

Edit: One post late.
Yeah, Hakaishin's right too.

Hakaishin, did you see my questions in post #2716?

Hakai

2017-02-06, 07:00

Hakaishin, did you see my questions in post #2716?

Yeah, replied in post #2717

katokateki

2017-02-06, 07:03

Yeah, it won't be an equal fight. While Ise just has to survive Vali's attacks for maybe a minute(EJO), Vali can't be bothered by Ise's single attack but Ise can do that for longer. But I guess Vali won't try to kill Ise, they are friends now.

Ise will only use it as a retaliation to Vali using Reduce.

Ps, Osman, I still don't know the difference between Sekiryuutei and Ddraig! :heh: Sorry!

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 07:14

"Sekiryuutei" can also refer to Ddraig's Hosts even though it's mainly Ddraig's title. "Ddraig" refers to Ddraig himself, the true Sekiryuutei.

@Hakaishin: Did you edit the post? The first time I saw it, you were only replying to Katokateki in that post.

Edit: Okay, I just saw your reply in that post. So does that mean you think he can't survive Reduce in his True Dragon form, either? Or do you mean just in base form?

Hakai

2017-02-06, 07:26

@Hakaishin: Did you edit the post? The first time I saw it, you were only replying to Katokateki in that post.

Yeah
Edit: Okay, I just saw your reply in that post. So does that mean you think he can't survive Reduce in his True Dragon form, either?

Yes, since I don't see his True-Dragon form(without Boosted Gear) being as strong as Great Red.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 07:32

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 07:32

We've seen unrestricted RG before, knowing Shiva he might allow it

They both have shitty stamina, Vali's EJO is especially bad and DxD L shaves his lifespan.
While Ise's far behind in power. They both have work to do before the fight.

Where was it stated that DxD L shaves his lifeforce ? EJOD is just crazy in stamina use but he's training with wukong so his stamina will get a lot better in a very short time i can see EJOD being used as a regular by the end of vol 23 but we will see, it's only a guess given Vali's talent

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 07:32

@Hakaishin: If it's Dragon God-level, it should be enough to resist it. Or at least, that's what I think. And besides, can he even wear the Boosted Gear in that form? The arms are too thick.

Edit: Two posts late.
@Sparda4: It was stated in Volume 21, in the same chapter where they mentioned the adjustments to DxD G mode, that Emperio Juggernaut Over Drive shaves of his lifespan. Not the life-force, but the lifespan. Meaning he'll die quicker.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 07:36

“If you’re talking about the power output you had during the time when you fought against Rizevim or Trihexa, you won’t be able to use it again unless you become a god. Even my lifespan has been reduced by a lot. But, I also received a blessing from the Dragon God.”

@Sparda There you go.

@Osman B.G. changes its shape/size accordingly. If I was a fat person, I would be offended. :heh:

Hakai

2017-02-06, 07:49

Considering the fact that 666 had the same power output (or even greater) as G.R. and complete Ophis, the Blazing Inferno burning him makes no sense. He sure is regenerating, but that is due to another ability of it.

I don't think its about power.

EDIT: Or was the core of 666 that Ise fought weak?
Yep, Sirzechs was destroying that thing effortlessly

@Hakaishin: If it's Dragon God-level, it should be enough to resist it. Or at least, that's what I think. And besides, can he even wear the Boosted Gear in that form? The arms are too thick..

Boosted Gear should be able to keep up with his size and shape, that's how sacred gears are. They change according to user's wish/need.

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 08:22

Yeah, you guys are right. My bad there, then. But what I said about that form being Dragon God-level should still stand unless we're told otherwise.

The core of Trihexa shouldn't be that powerful by itself. It'd matter more if it's inside the Beast. That being said, since those flames are constantly burning the core anyway, the Beast should also be taking damage (theoretically).

katokateki

2017-02-06, 08:34

Then gwiber won't be effective against Shiva too. Neither will be the blazing inferno.

Hakai

2017-02-06, 08:37

Then gwiber won't be effective against Shiva too. Neither will be the blazing inferno.

If he's hit it will, but he could probably destroy Ddraig/Albion before getting hit.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 08:38

But isn't Shiva as powerful as G.R. and original Ophis? He was thinking of at least being able to seal the 666, right?

Hakai

2017-02-06, 08:44

But isn't Shiva as powerful as G.R. and original Ophis? He was thinking of at least being able to seal the 666, right?

Eh? No

Even in this volume(22)he admitted Great Red and Ophis surpass his strength

katokateki

2017-02-06, 08:49

Then I asked the boy about my main concern

“There’s only one thing I wish to ask you. After it happens, can you please stop the beast?”

Hearing this, the boy looked surprised.

“666. Is that all right? Isn’t it a divine beast from your mythology?”

“The only one who can stop him now is you.”

After I said that, the boy smirked and replied

“Ophis is not here. Great Red naturally won’t accept. …the only one left then is me.”

“I was joking. An incomplete Ophis or a devil who has no will to fight, does not make me interested.”

The boy said as he got up.

“—Then I’ll do it. Fight with this beast, if he wants to invade another world, I will stop it. —But everything else is just an interference. Whether it’s something that’s happening now, or something that will happen in the future, it has nothing to do with me. Even if it’s Rizevim Livan Lucifer or the Evil Dragons. I will only lend you a hand if worst comes to worst. ……Are you satisfied with that?”

Well, sounded like it. Vol. 19 Rudra

Hakai

2017-02-06, 09:02

“The rumours say that you’ve accepted the request of the Three Factions to stop Trihexa.”

Shiva also continued the conversation while moving his pieces.

“Well, sort of. However… this is beyond my expectations. —I’m afraid that even if I faced it head on, I wouldn’t be able to defeat it. It’s impossible to seal it without triggering a battle on the level of world destruction.”

“Sealing huh. As the God of Destruction who could destroy the world, you’ll only seal it?”

In response to Ajuka’s words, Shiva shrugged.

“Indeed, it is impossible even for me to kill it. Didn’t you and Azazel understand this from the very beginning? The most that can be done is a sealing, and that would be the best possible outcome. I will certainly bring destruction to it, but mere destruction will not kill it; that legendary beast-kun is not so weak.”

The God of Destruction laughed sarcastically. Ajuka raised his eyebrows slightly.

“—In order to ‘destroy’ it, only the former Ophis in her prime or Great Red who wanders about in the Dimensional Gap could do it
Well, not really

katokateki

2017-02-06, 09:06

That's cold man!

He was thinking of at least being able to seal the 666, right?

At least this part was correct! :heh:

Hakai

2017-02-06, 09:09

That's cold man!
Eh? Really?

At least this part was correct! :heh:

Well, God of Bible did seal it so Shiva might be able to do that under favorable circumstances.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 09:28

Nah, was joking. I have a habit of over-reacting. I think it's funny. Idk why.

But yeah, Shiva may get hurt. Although, if we are talking about power here, why were the heavenly dragons exceptions?

Here's my theory(don't say really? though, it seriously hurts, again joking), the two heavenly dragons fought only each other as no one other than G.R. and Ophis was more powerful than them back then. Either that, or no one else was willing to fight them.

That's why they could only test it on few beings, and later on, they sealed it. Really.

EDIT: Forgot to add conclusion, so, gwiber and blazing inferno may be impractical against Heavenly Dragon class beings, which Ise and Vali may have reached by now, while remaining fatal against pretty much anything else that's organic.

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 10:32

Eh? Really?

Well, God of Bible did seal it so Shiva might be able to do that under favorable circumstances.

Well if the the gods can hold off trihexa for a few years then Issei and Vali will in theory have enough power to buy Shiva some time to seal it for good. I mean the Heavenly dragons in their prime working together against a common enemy Ddraig on his own is no pushover but having albion join in too that's a death sentence i'm not supprised that god of the bible and the four maou are dead and keep in mind Reduce and Inferno weren't used by them because they found their match.And who's to say 10 years from now Issei won't master the CCQ and Vali EJOD

And a little sidenote to EJOD,if it's really killing his lifespan then Wukong can just get it back to Vali Issei had the same problem i know life span and life force are not the same but how do we know that Senjutsu doesn't restore both ?

katokateki

2017-02-06, 10:45

No one wants to seal 666 anymore. Its feared that it may break out again, otherwise, technically, its already been sealed.

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 11:19

It won't break out. But like I said before, it's predicted that Ise will take a few people with him into that dimension to help fight Trihexa sometime in the future (sometime later than 30 years or so, it seems). With all of those people together, it should be possible to destroy Trihexa for good. Hopefully.

But Ddraig and Albion by themselves can't beat Trihexa. Trihexa is stronger than Great Red and complete Ophis, after all.

Ise probably still has the problem of his life-force fluctuating like that. I'm not sure, though. But either way, we can't be sure if Senjutsu can give you back your lifespan. It probably can't. And did you really say "if it really kills his lifespan"? Do you not trust the novels? It proven to you using a quote from the novels, wasn't it?

katokateki

2017-02-06, 11:23

Hey guys, what do you think of my theory in post #2741 (https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=6028530#post6028530)?

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 11:32

I'm not sure if they were completely right, but Ddraig and Albion did seem to believe that no being other than Great Red and the infinite Ophis can stand up to them. If it's true, though, then yes, it probably means that Shiva can't beat them either. But this doesn't count Trihexa, so of course, Ddraig and Albion can't beat Trihexa.

Sparda4

2017-02-06, 11:35

@osman I may have glossed over it , but maybe it was a side effect of EJOD breaking away from JD who knows I'll take your word for it but look over it ok ? I'm pretty sure it was just a one time deal, i doubt that it's taking away his lifespan then in that case it's not that different from JD. Read through it again i will too i'm SURE EJOD only takes stamina and demonic power.

katokateki

2017-02-06, 11:38

@Osman Do you think Ise's DxD G unnerfed can beat Shiva then? He is the 4th strongest in DxD universe IIRC.

I think I remember them talking about no one else being able to fight them, so they were fighting each other. I think its rather ignorance from their side.

But, my original point was, that if inferno and gwiber can't act on Heavenly Dragons but can kill equivalently powered beings, doesn't it make it specific to their flesh/aura/power rather than having anything to do with their power levels?

EDIT: @Sparda I posted the quote for DxD L, not EJOD. I too think it was just his stamina after it turned into EJOD. The reason Sun Wukong adviced him to make that form more efficient.

DragonOsman

2017-02-06, 11:42

By the way, guys, didn't Ise say when Triaina was first unlocked that he'll try to think of a more fitting name that encompasses all four armored forms (Triaina + True Queen) once the True Queen has awakened? And yet he still hasn't done that. Unless "Cardinal Crimson Promotion" can be thought of as a name encompassing all four of them? If it can't, then we need to think of a name for it. Ise might come up with a name before the end of the series (hopefully he will), but still.

Yeah, I forgot for a bit, DxD L is said to shave off Vali's lifespan, not Emperio Juggernaut Over Drive, @Sparda4. You're mixing them up.

Ddraig and Albion might not be truly ignorant, though. Unless we include Trihexa and the Dragon Gods, there really shouldn't be anyone that can stand against Ddraig and Albion. Heavenly Dragon-level is no joke. There's a reason why the Boosted Gear is a Longinus (remember, someone who masters the power of a Longinus can kill a god).