2007-08-14, 16:33 | Link #41 |
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@avmoghe Dude you can scream $hit is irrelevant in caps until your lung collapses, doesn't mean I find it to be some dismissive content...Secondly every comparison you make to Churchill, Bin Laden, or random leaders to make your math problem work is asinine at best...You clearly have no idea of context and how it differs depending on the story...Character A doing something in a show with a different contextual make-up doesn't equal Character B doing the same thing in a different work (ofcourse unless you just ignore symbolism, expressionism, contextual value--You know $hit you don't watch Gundam for)...In the political realm Turn A gundam was far less strict than the texture of the political make-up in something like SEED and GSD...Each Gundam series is different in it's motivations and Turn A was more of a romanticizing view at a "coming of age story" with the backdrop of closing the Gundam lore...You probably think something like SEED or GSD is romantic because of fanservicey coupling things rather than the real contextual value it has in this series...
You proudly stand by the statement that Gundam is a stoopid toyline show that you don't watch for plot or characters (Which is sheer ignorance to many) but if that's your base thought concerning Gundam then why the hell would the switch-a-roo even get to you this much? It's just a stoopid toy show right? Who cares if Dianna defects like Sideways from the TRANSFORMERS? Surely not you who nearly had an aneurysm because the action wasn't as l33t as you expected... If you think Turn A is $hit sobeit, but I refuse to suppress my natural intellect to engage you much further in a debate where your base-opinion is that of not even acknowledging Gundam as something that's even suppose to have a decent plot or characterization (Your ground-zero is sad IMHO)...Sorry man, but honestly most of your arguments simply fail to me...Your understanding of context is really bad, so please don't ever watch Turn A again, not with those eyes because your not watching a fresh new series, you're watching your misplaced expectations turn to crap...
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2007-08-14, 16:48 | Link #42 | |
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2007-08-14, 16:54 | Link #43 | ||
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I'll make no claims about Destiny.. since I've never said its among my favorites... Quote:
We are simply talking on different levels... I expect my shows to make sense in a real and concrete way, while you fawn over the alleged symbolism and artistic expressionism. Either way, I suppose you should be able to understand why I absolutely love the Wire.... incredibly complex plotting, no "layers" of character that I must appreciate in order to understand the tale...etc.. Either way, its been fun |
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2007-08-14, 17:00 | Link #44 | |
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2007-08-14, 17:05 | Link #45 | |
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Now if you had Azrael giving up command of Earth forces to Kira for no reason... then you might have a point...Thankfully no series aside from Turn A Gundam has tried to pull this off... |
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2007-08-14, 21:10 | Link #47 | ||||
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1. Germany wasn't ready for an all-out war in 1939. Hence giving up on Czechoslovakia in 1938 would preserve the peace until at least 1942-1943. 2. In Mein Kampf, Hitler was mostly talking about a war with the Soviet Union. Britain and France actually hoped that they could form an anti-Communist alliance with him at some point in the future. 3. As long as Germany's main enemy was the Soviet Union, they wouldn't dare try to annex any of Poland's territory. The Germans themselves didn't think that they'd be ready for war until 1942. The reason they started the war in 1939 was because they miscalculated the Allies' resolve. The Soviet Union was fully aware of Mein Kampf, and they had been trying to form an anti-German alliance with Britain and France for years. Eventually, their refusal led Stalin to believe that they were prodding Germany into attacking him, hence leading to his signing the Non-Aggression Pact with Germany. What was once the situation in 1938 had changed a great deal by August of 1939. Moreover, you have to look at the alternatives available to Britain and France - Britain's army was small and France's lack of manpower meant that they were basically incapable of offensive operations into Germany. If they did fight a war over Czechoslovakia, they stood to lose a lot while (apparently) gaining very little. The history behind the popular view of these events is much more complex than most people believe, and I think Chamberlain got a much worse rap than he truly deserved. Quote:
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2007-08-14, 21:26 | Link #48 | |
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Everyone has different tastes and expectations when it comes to Gundam. As for me I just take it easy. I sit back enjoy the show (whether it be Gundam Seed or one of the older shows like the MS 08th team) and take the show for what it is. Instead of criticizing all the faults or unrealsitic things that happen in a series I just enjoy it. |
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2007-08-15, 00:44 | Link #49 | ||
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2007-08-15, 01:19 | Link #50 | |
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What you have is two very different situations.. In situation A, you have Lacus and the Reverend spending several days with someone talking together about what Kira will do. They sympathize with his situation, befriend him, and let him stay at Lacus place until he has fully recovered. They also know that this fellow is a coordinator who has repeatedly fought in battles, is a technical wiz, and is tired of the war... and is also Athrun Zara's childhood friend. Upon this, he is given one single Gundam to do what he can to stop the war.... In situation B, you have the queen of the Moon abandoning her people to a girl who is virtually unknown. This girl is nothing more than a secretary from the ENEMY side. with no demonstrated ability to lead people, inspire people, or know how to run a war. Kihel and Dianna spoke together ONCE in private, and in those few minutes they automatically decide to switch places and hand over the fate of the moon's army to Kihel... Situation A is giving one single powerful gundam to a known technical wiz who has demonstrated his ability to handle Gundams repeatedly. Situation B is giving up the command of the entire military in wartime to an girl with unknown loyalties with absolutely no demonstrated knowledge of leadership, war, or politics.... Lacus is smart enough to give one single gundam to a guy she (and her fiance) know.... have interacted with for multiple days... AND has demonstrated knowledge of Gundam technology and piloting ability.... Dianna is dumb enough to give over the fate of her entire race to an unknown secretary from the Enemy race after speaking to her once and having no demonstrated abilities of leadership... Sorry, these do not compare in stupidity... As I said, unless you have something like Azreal or Zara completely handing over military authority in wartime to an unknown enemy, you're not going to be able to make this argument.... |
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2007-08-15, 04:10 | Link #51 |
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Diana never considered people of earth as "enemy".
It is mostly earth people that were opposed to moonrace in the beginning (even if some moonrace made a few mistakes too). When the switch occured, there weren't really at war yet, and dianna just wanted to have some fun, to know the people of earth, i dont think it was suposed to last very long. Then it turned out that Keil and Dianna both made better in their new role than in their formers, so they stayed like that. IMO, CE did much worse, with people having been in all the possible factions several times . |
2007-08-15, 09:07 | Link #52 | ||
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The situation wasn't all that different from how the U.S. doesn't like China's armament program - they can't really do all that much about it.
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2007-08-15, 11:11 | Link #53 | ||
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BTW, I enjoy both Seed & Turn A. Both have pros & cons. |
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2007-08-15, 11:55 | Link #54 | |
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Define "enemy". ZAFT was no more Sigel Clyne's friend than Orb was. And Kira's views were much more in accord with his own than just about anyone else's was.
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2007-08-15, 19:15 | Link #55 | |
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Thank you for addressing the issues brought up by daibomui.. daibomui: 4Tran has addressed the issues you've brought up more than sufficiently. |
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2007-08-15, 21:54 | Link #56 | ||
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And when I spoke of "lack of loyalty", I don't mean betrayal at all. Most of Dianna's people and troops seemed to genuinely like her, but they displayed almost no respect for her authority (this seems to be surprisingly common in Tomino shows). Dianna, and Kihel in her place, had very little capability of changing things for either good or ill. It's only natural that such an environment ended up stifling her. Quote:
I don't think that any of this would have amounted to much if they had made the switch back after a couple of days.
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2007-08-16, 14:18 | Link #57 |
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I agree with the previous poster. Turn A was crap. The story was ridiculous and some of it didnt make any sesne, like the black history thing. And the simple fact that it "ranks high" with SEED automatically tells me its garbage. SEED was a horrible series and the only kind of people who like it are people who never saw the original series or any of the UC universe. UC is REAL Gundam, not the garbage they spit out today. The only reason SEED ranks so high is because it appeals to kids these days, kids who never saw a REAL Gundam series. Then again, most kids dont appreciate the original series.
Also, dont steryotype Gundam as a "toy commercial". Thats an idiotic statement. Ill agree that SEED was, just because it was the worst thing since G Gundam. But Gundam was a revolutionary anime. If it wasnt for Gundam we'd still be stuck with the super robot crap. Gundam set the standard mech anime, and to down play it and call it a "toy commercial" is insane. Things like that are the reason that Gundam (sadly) will probably never be popular in America again. The new animu fans dont appreciate Gundam for what it is and dont pay any attention to the story. |
2007-08-16, 15:49 | Link #58 | ||||||
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Besides, what bearing does the quality of Seed have on the quality of Turn A? While people may like both, they tend to do so for very different reasons. Quote:
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Heck, you're not exactly likely to go out and buy a DVD set of something like Soap, are you?
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2007-08-16 at 18:15. |
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2007-08-16, 16:12 | Link #59 | ||
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