StarCraft 2

[gummybear]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

The mobile starbase thing I don't really see as too big of an advantage for the tech it requires and the additional resources it takes to upgrade a starport into a starbase. It's not like it has a bunch of cannons to go with it to turn it into an archangel or something like that.

If the mothership got its black hole ability back, if it just used that black hole and took down one battlecruiser, it'd pay for itself except for 100 gas.

it might not attacks, but then it can recharge unit's energy, so have them follow a group of BC and you will be y-gun everything in your way.

If the mothership get blackhole back, that means they can only make one per person.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Cats

Anyway, Terran air looking hot! I think they may be trying to specialise them in this sense: terran strongest most versatile air, zerg strong versatile ground and toss all average.

I feel like the Terrans in general have some very nice stuff available, both for air and ground. The Protoss feel shafted by comparison for sure. Perhaps it's because the Protoss units in SC and SC:BW really were better, and the Terran stuff was worse? Can't make a judgement on the Zerg yet since not much has been revealed. The ability to turn Zerglings into bombs isn't anythig good or bad, in my opinion. I hope it's still possible to infest enemy buildings (or at least, the control center) - that was always the fun, and worth more than the ability to make infested terrans.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I feel like the Terrans in general have some very nice stuff available, both for air and ground. The Protoss feel shafted by comparison for sure. Perhaps it's because the Protoss units in SC and SC:BW really were better, and the Terran stuff was worse? Can't make a judgement on the Zerg yet since not much has been revealed. The ability to turn Zerglings into bombs isn't anythig good or bad, in my opinion. I hope it's still possible to infest enemy buildings (or at least, the control center) - that was always the fun, and worth more than the ability to make infested terrans.

I never saw the protoss stuff in SC1 as that much better. It was better tech wise but the cost involve and lack of repairs, imo wasn't worth it. I always prefer to play Terran, the only thing i like about the protoss were the photon canons, that fire at both air and ground targets. But for everything else i prefer my tanks

[gummybear]

Toss is more user friendly, since everything is easy and straight forward. Terran require lots of micro management. Toss get shaft kind of hard if you haven't notice, both terran and zerg have stuff that can kill them effectively such as EMP and plagu, while toss mostly rely on brut force like mind storm and such.

[Klashikari]

That really depends... i felt zerg was much more "user friendly", due the straigh mass effect, even if some tools (like the defiler) are required.

Toss are really an annoying race for the ressource management (wanna archon? yeah, gotta have tons of gas ~~), and some issues with the tech tree. and much like you said, options are ridiculeous for the moment (well, there were the arbiter cloak field and stasis, along with psio storm, but they aren't that fine to purchase, and very much fragiles :x)

well rather some random opinion here (not really a ladder player by any means), But i felt much more comfortable with both others races, while i'm a toss player so

[Cheezy]

While Protoss is the most noob-friendly, it can be a lot hard as well. You won't win a PvT by rushing a few zealots, and PvZ is hard since Zerg can easily outnumber you.

Also, i think the Zerg is least user friendly, actually. I really suck at controlling large amounts of units and massing zerglings and lurkers from 10 hatcheries while i'm microing my army. :x

[Xellos-_^]

considering the toss were suppose to be the strongest race in sc1. I never got that feeling when playing it. I always felt the Terran versitalty and Zerg numbers were stronger then then the toss.

[Fang taichou]

I wonder what evolutionary upgrades the Zerg will get (besides the ones already shown). Spawn Broodling vs. air maybe? Or perhaps ultralisks that consume enemies and regain a percentage of hp back?

[felix]

~ Klashikari
The zerg are indeed easy, the catch is you have to worry a lot more about them; it's not easy to overwhelm with numbers.
I imagine it is a little bit boring for n00bs to learn zerg; personally I would rate them the harderst.

~ Xellos
Generally all the protoss units are build for the push, unlike the other races. In SC1 they were the best, in SC: BroodWar only if you were comparing Ai. The overall Ai was supposedly improved in a patch, but the toss-ai is still the best most annoying among them.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Cats

~ Klashikari
The zerg are indeed easy, the catch is you have to worry a lot more about them; it's not easy to overwhelm with numbers.
I imagine it is a little bit boring for n00bs to learn zerg; personally I would rate them the harderst.

Indeed, i was most likely talking about beginner and middle play. Basically, the Zerg tactic and gameplay appears to be the "easiest" due the "spawn => rally => rampage with whimsical 2-3 groups of 12"
Of course, as for elaborated and advanced play, ironically, they are the most annoying race for micro management (either tools like queen and defile), since outnumbering isn't always an advantage which can be drawn with zerg.

I fully agree that Toss are a bit "straight forward", so the "noobish aspect", though the problem is the immediate ressource problem, which is the "noob problem" ^^'
After that, i guess toss is easier to handle.

Gotta see the options in SCII, but toss don't look having many tools to go aside of the "laughable" brute force.

[DragoonKain3]

I'm by no means a good player, but I love the zerg. Micro? Who needs micro? lol. Their units are a dime a dozen and that makes up somewhat to someone who's not very good with micro. Only 2 units you need to really micro, one being not used all that often (queen is only really good against tanks, if even at that) and the other you only really need a few because of devour. As such, this gives me more focus on something I'm a bit better at, macro, which I find the zerg kinda suggests you do because every hatchery doubles up as a unit maker and a potential expo.

Toss on the other hand IMO requires more micro than the others, even more than terran. This is partly because their units are more expensive, and as such IMO they suffer the wc3 syndrome of making every unit count and survive as long as one can. Reaver drops, one of the more popular toss tactic, also is micro intensive. Add to the fact that they have 4 units that has spells to aim, and it feels like I'm playing wc3 everytime I played toss. XD

Do note I played mostly on non-money maps, and as such my views reflect that.

[ImperialPanda]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

considering the toss were suppose to be the strongest race in sc1. I never got that feeling when playing it. I always felt the Terran versitalty and Zerg numbers were stronger then then the toss.

Toss are the strongest. Vs zerg once you get archons and psi storm you literally cannot lose. Vs terran the only real fight is breaking out of the containment/push and then it's probably win.

A few predictions for beta/early SC2:

- reapers will be extremely overpowered
- terrans generally-speaking will be overpowered
- mothership will either be a toss sci vessel or, if limited to one-at-a-time, useless
- planetary fortress useless except for the absolutely longest games
- immortals will be underpowered, I'm guessing general-consensus as worst money/effect ratio of all medium range support
- colossus underpowered, best candidate for new ability/upgrade in expansion if they don't give it one in original

[Fang taichou]

Originally Posted by ImperialPanda

Toss are the strongest. Vs zerg once you get archons and psi storm you literally cannot lose. Vs terran the only real fight is breaking out of the containment/push and then it's probably win.

A few predictions for beta/early SC2:

- reapers will be extremely overpowered
- terrans generally-speaking will be overpowered
- mothership will either be a toss sci vessel or, if limited to one-at-a-time, useless
- planetary fortress useless except for the absolutely longest games
- immortals will be underpowered, I'm guessing general-consensus as worst money/effect ratio of all medium range support
- colossus underpowered, best candidate for new ability/upgrade in expansion if they don't give it one in original

Actually Ultralisks + Queens will destroy archons and templars. You need some anti-air in that mix though, preferably hydras, since they fill in AAA and short-range artillery power. This is probably more than the average zerg player is capable of doing, but...it works when done properly. If course if you somehow MASSED ultralisks...just storm the Protoss base outright. Only stoppable by Arbiter stasis, DA maelstrom and DA MC (MC is risky, you will likely lose them when their shields are depleted).

BTW, did the Terran Thor have anti-air capabilities? I didn't see them engage any air during the gameplay vids.

[ImperialPanda]

I don't mean just archons. You would never mass anything in SC. Archons mixed with zealots and dragoons with the exact ratio based on the zerg makeup. Archons will kill cracklings in seconds. And then zealots will mop up the ultralisks.

Ultra/crackling/queen would fare best vs archon/zealot/dragoon/templar but even outresourced the toss still wins most of the time.

I don't think MCing ultras would be very good. 1) you specifically have to get dts and research just for MC, and then 2) after MC they'd probably be broodling'd right away anyways. Ultralisks don't do great damage. Their only purpose is to absorb hits from archons if the toss player isn't quick enough to manually target new cracklings with archons. Maelstrom helps in really close games, but most of the time I never see the protoss need it.

[Cheezy]

Queens can be used to broodling the templars. I think that's what they are mostly used for.

Also, aren't Hydras used against archons?

[ImperialPanda]

Originally Posted by Cheezy

Queens can be used to broodling the templars. I think that's what they are mostly used for.

Also, aren't Hydras used against archons?

Yeah I just realized. =/ just changed. Zealots will beat anything zerg have except cracklings, and that's what archons are for. Even with queens toss usually still gets some storms off tho.

If the zerg really gets a crapload of queens you can always get a couple corsairs.

[felix]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Only 2 units you need to really micro, one being not used all that often (queen is only really good against tanks, if even at that) and the other you only really need a few because of devour.

Actually even simple units like lurkers need micro, the stop button to be precise. Human players aren't as stupid as the cpu.
Playing against a experienced terran you'll find you're more concern with tech then macro.
The zerg are very vulnerable to simple things like 2-3 squads of marines with 4 meds a piece.

[Demongod86]

2-3 SQUADS of marines? By the time you get around 36 food of marines/medics, the zergies will certainly have a few lurkers, and that's all it takes to tear apart any amount of marines and medics.

As for Immortals, I think that they will be VERY powerful. They have double a dragoon's (now stalker's) damage, and that shield that basically stops anything besides the attacks of the lowest tech units such as marines, reapers, hydras, lings, and zealots, which any other protoss unit can wipe up.

Off topic: Is it just me, or is Rin's nipple poking at her shirt in your sig, Cats?

[felix]

It's just you. That's just a stray brush stroke, I don't use those kinds of sigs.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

2-3 SQUADS of marines? By the time you get around 36 food of marines/medics, the zergies will certainly have a few lurkers, and that's all it takes to tear apart any amount of marines and medics.

Tell that to Boxer.

You haven't seen M&M Lurker micro yet, have you? The Terran pros can murder lurkers with M&M. That's why the Stop button was needed; the Lurkers need to surprise-attack or they will stand no chance.

Now, if you have Hydra, Crackling, or Muta escorts with the Lurkers, then it would work to the Zerg's favour. But not Lurkers by themselves.