2007-08-23, 08:01 | Link #1101 | ||||||
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Then again, my issue with Lelouch isn't that he acts because of emotion; it's that he doesn't plan anywhere nearly as he should have.
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2007-08-23, 09:39 | Link #1102 | |||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
Join Date: Aug 2007
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No one's saying Gawain's invincible. Gawain provides much more protection than you give it credit for.
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If you ask me whether Zero did his homework before the battle, i'd say Yes he did. He planned the collapse of the infrastructure and taking Cornelia as a hostage(he geassed Dalton for this). |
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2007-08-23, 11:57 | Link #1104 | |||||||
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And again, it's really the lack of contingency planning that shows their weakness more than anything else. Quote:
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2007-08-23, 18:29 | Link #1105 | ||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Point here was to show that Cornelia acts according to her emotions too like Zero. Would you cooperate with the very man who killed your brother? Not unless you're really desperate. Nope as mentioned above, Cornelia executed the tactic without gaving it much thought and it resulted in senseless casaulties, hence it wasn't a sound decision at all. Zero doesnt reveal his plans to the OoBK due to several reasons, 1 mainly due to his geass. For instance, geassing Dalton to capture Cornelia as a hostage and also when he geassed those Britannians to purge the outerskirt's infrastructure. People are bound to question how he manages to do all these things. Besides, as mentioned before, Zero isn't obliged (or at least he think he isn't) to share his tricks of the trade with any of the OoBK people (since his true purpose, as stated before, is not Japanese Liberation) |
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2007-08-23, 20:44 | Link #1106 | |||||||
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2007-08-23, 22:27 | Link #1107 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Yeah, I'm kind of late.
XD Was sick. First of all, I don't think Zero was capable of that kind of trust to raise a second leader. One thing, his father did nothing while his mother was killed. After that, his father didn't even care about what happened to Lulu's mother. And then, he was sent of to Japan to basically become peace offerings of some sort. He was also bullied in Japan, if the sound episodes are canon. In that sort of situation, I don't think Lulu could trust someone that much to raise up a leader that has somewhat the same abilities as him. But then, Zero isn't exactly really smart in this matter. He seemed to be taking things as they come. After Suzaku became Euphie's knight, he forgot about getting someone to guard Nunully. Definitely some under sight from him. Though, I now wonder how far has this debate/argument deviated from the original path. |
2007-08-23, 22:45 | Link #1108 | ||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
Join Date: Aug 2007
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If so, why'd Zero make Ougi the vice-commander? Obviously there's something that Zero knows about Ougi that we don't. We can't say that we fully understand the capabilities of Ougi. Quote:
Cornelia's tactics resulted in her defeat as well as the loss of dozens of Britannian lives. There was so much at stake here and she obviously did not plan adequately. Had Orange not interfered, Cornelia would have been taken as a hostage and OoBKs pretty much won the battle already. Good tactics? Quote:
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I wasn't trying to say which was more important here. It was just to answer your question about why he didnt see fit to reveal his plans to the OoBK. We can all pretty much see what a selfish guy Lelouch is. |
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2007-08-24, 08:14 | Link #1109 | |||||||
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1. While Gawain is an advanced Knightmare Frame, it's still a high priority target. 2. Hence there's a significant possibility that Lelouch will be knocked out of a communications loop. 3. Therefore, it would make sense that he have a contingency in place for such an occurence. How does any of what you posted rufute that? Quote:
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2007-08-24, 09:18 | Link #1110 | ||||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Last edited by Chudley; 2007-08-24 at 10:05. |
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2007-08-25, 08:37 | Link #1111 | |||
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For example, Lelouch ordering the Black Knights to secure the school as a headquarters was actually quite a good tactic. However, it didn't work out because because his troops were useless. It would have been a better plan had he taken the incompetence of the Black Knights into account, but it still doesn't detract from the original as a sound tactic.
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2007-08-25, 10:30 | Link #1112 | ||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
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2007-08-25, 14:50 | Link #1113 | |||||
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By the way, if Lelouch really did have a contingency plan, then why haven't the Black Knights followed it yet? Quote:
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"Our goal is to secure the school as our headquarters for this battle. Since you guys don't seem to know what that means, I'll explain: search the premises for anything suspicious or dangerous, and make sure that nothing can interfere with our operations." "If a Britannian Knightmare Frame or other vehicle approaches the school, take it out. It's sort of important to not let the enemy into our HQ." "If an armed Britannian tries to get in, or says they want to speak to the leader, or something like that, only idiots would let them through. I really hope you guys aren't stupid enough to do that." "This shouldn't be a concern since nobody's supposed to come in anyways, but if Ougi encounters his girlfriend, he doesn't get to play kissyface with her. We're busy fighting a war; and stuff like that should be saved for later." "These students (Nunally et al.) are important; keep them here so they can't give us any trouble, and make sure they don't get hurt. That goes for the other students as well. All we need is for a single student to sneak into our operations area and make a phone call, and our plans could be ruined." "And for crying out loud, don't hurt the students yourself - I'm trying to build up a little goodwill here, and your petty vendettas will really cramping my style." Do I need to go on?
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2007-08-25, 20:23 | Link #1114 | ||||||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Because knightmares don't exactly face the risk of a communication breakdown unlike the real world? Not to mention Lelouch had his cell phone with him and was contacting OoBK members with it. Therefore your idea of such a possibility is extremely far-fetched to say the least and your "high-priority target = possibility" logic here is irrelevant.
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Yes you do. None of the points you mentioned above translate to the OoBK screwing up. You claim that they're useless troops, yet you fail to produce any proof of that. Last edited by Chudley; 2007-08-25 at 20:54. |
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2007-08-25, 21:05 | Link #1115 |
The Last Frontier
Join Date: Apr 2004
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The OoTBK aren't useless per se. They're just fall to pieces when Zero's not around so in a sense, they're like perfect chess pieces. They can do whatever the commander tells them to, but without someone moving them, they're not that great.
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2007-08-25, 22:11 | Link #1116 | ||||||||||
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2007-08-26, 00:41 | Link #1117 | ||||||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
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Isnt it one and the same? Besides you clearly mentioned 3 posts ago that "it didnt work out because his troops were useless.". |
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2007-08-26, 01:44 | Link #1118 | |||||||||
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2007-08-26, 03:01 | Link #1119 | |||||
Silver-eyed Lion King
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It still doesnt indicate poor leadership in any sense. Put yourself in Ougi's shoes, if someone offers you the latest knightmare frame models to fight back and is able to pinpoint the enemy's exact location and anticipate their moves, you're bound to go along with him. Quote:
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What makes you say that? If Viletta was indeed in possession of valuable information, it'll be much more moronic if the soldiers had gunned her down without ascertaining her identity. Quote:
Lelouch is an intelligent individual and since he did not see the need to do the above action, it translates to the students posing no threat to his plans. Troops take orders from their leader and execute them accordingly. "Securing the school" was an order Zero gave to the Black Knights and since you said they screwed up big, this means that the Black Knights at Ashford failed to execute the order Zero handed down, thus failing as troops in general. There's no difference in this case and I don't see what you're trying to illustrate. |
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2007-08-26, 13:23 | Link #1120 | |||||||
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By the way, you're making a circular argument here. Quote:
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